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quoted 3 lines Over here though we'll get a venue with 2000 kids and i'd say a good 50% of

>Over here though we'll get a venue with 2000 kids and i'd say a good 50% of >them are on drugs and fucked up. Thats just from personal experience in my >area of the US. It's quite disgusting.

I always find this a interesting perspective in on a music scene that owes at least part of it's inspiration & roots to the condemned drugs, and drug users themselves. There are whole genres that are specifically designed to be experienced on some sort of drug, and many of the underlying elements of other genres are at least influenced by the use of drugs or the idea that the people listening to the music will either be on a certain drug or would have sometime in there life experienced that drug. It is equivalent to someone greatly admiring tie-dye t-shirts, but hating that damn pot-smoking acidhead hippy who created it. Two side notes: First, I live in america also. Trust me there is allot more alcohol related incidents of violence and deaths in relation to violence and death caused by rave related drugs. If you don't trust me, just turn on your local news and see how long it take to hear of someone who died in a drunk driving related incident, or go to a local bar or club and see tempers flare and fights break out once the drinking gets started. Now do the same for rave related drugs and see which proverbial hand gets full first. A person on a rave related drug is more likely to want to hug you or engage in a intellectual conversation. I am not saying that there are not bad effects, just that they miniscule when compared to the bad effects of legal drugs. This leads me to believe that drugs are just a scapegoat to underlying reasons why governments want raves shut down. What the true reason is I could only speculate. One thing I do know is through out history governments have never liked large gathering of open minded youngsters. Second, I don't like the implication that all drugs are bad, and the people on them are bad. Who sets these standards. It sounds more like memetic control mechanism. When I first went to raves I was under the impression that electronic music was terrible. The only reason I went was to look for a certain drug that I had been wanting to experiment for the last 5 years before hand. Once I took this drug electronic music made allot more sense, actually allot of things made a lot more sense, but that is beside the point. Today I no longer do drugs. Besides the occasional psychedelic maybe once or twice a year. I guess I grew out of them. But I didn't grow out of my love for electronic music it becomes wider and deeper everyday. You can blame this on those evil drugs. Lastly, the 50% of the 2000 you mentioned. Is that just a device to prove a point. Or do you actually do representative sampling when you go to these events? _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Your right, there are alot more alcohol related accidents, deaths and crimes the rave drug related... but the goverment isn't trying to shut down every bar as compared to raves. I never said drugs were bad, if someone wants to do them i tihnk they should be allowed to. It is their own body after all. I'm sure drugs influenced alot of music, that has been prooven thru out history. My problems with drugs is public use of them where the goverment sees it and enforces stricter laws on promoters and venues. Venues are impossible to find where i live. As for the 50%, i don't go and count and sample.. it's just a rough guess from being there in person, seeing the puddles, kids inhaling vix, sucking on pacifiers and having the drugged up look in their eyes. Rich Warchild 781-856-3804 AIM: The DJ Warchild ICQ: 2021032 Affiliations Warchild (http://www.djwarchild.com) Ruffneck Playaz Crew (http://www.ruffneckplayazcrew.com) Airplane Clique (http://www.airplaneclique.da.ru) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Z Moser" <roachgod69@hotmail.com> To: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 4:37 PM Subject: Re: [idm] I killed dancing music

quoted 3 lines Over here though we'll get a venue with 2000 kids and i'd say a good 50%

> > > >Over here though we'll get a venue with 2000 kids and i'd say a good 50%

of

quoted 1 line them are on drugs and fucked up. Thats just from personal experience in

> >them are on drugs and fucked up. Thats just from personal experience in

my

quoted 7 lines area of the US. It's quite disgusting.

> >area of the US. It's quite disgusting. > > > I always find this a interesting perspective in on a music scene that owes > at least part of it's inspiration & roots to the condemned drugs, and drug > users themselves. There are whole genres that are specifically designed to > be experienced on some sort of drug, and many of the underlying elements

of

quoted 2 lines other genres are at least influenced by the use of drugs or the idea that

> other genres are at least influenced by the use of drugs or the idea that > the people listening to the music will either be on a certain drug or

would

quoted 8 lines have sometime in there life experienced that drug.

> have sometime in there life experienced that drug. > > It is equivalent to someone greatly admiring tie-dye t-shirts, but hating > that damn pot-smoking acidhead hippy who created it. > > Two side notes: > > First, I live in america also. Trust me there is allot more alcohol

related

quoted 1 line incidents of violence and deaths in relation to violence and death caused

> incidents of violence and deaths in relation to violence and death caused

by

quoted 1 line rave related drugs. If you don't trust me, just turn on your local news

> rave related drugs. If you don't trust me, just turn on your local news

and

quoted 1 line see how long it take to hear of someone who died in a drunk driving

> see how long it take to hear of someone who died in a drunk driving

related

quoted 5 lines incident, or go to a local bar or club and see tempers flare and fights

> incident, or go to a local bar or club and see tempers flare and fights > break out once the drinking gets started. Now do the same for rave related > drugs and see which proverbial hand gets full first. A person on a rave > related drug is more likely to want to hug you or engage in a intellectual > conversation. I am not saying that there are not bad effects, just that

they

quoted 5 lines miniscule when compared to the bad effects of legal drugs.

> miniscule when compared to the bad effects of legal drugs. > > This leads me to believe that drugs are just a scapegoat to underlying > reasons why governments want raves shut down. What the true reason is I > could only speculate. One thing I do know is through out history

governments

quoted 3 lines have never liked large gathering of open minded youngsters.

> have never liked large gathering of open minded youngsters. > > Second, I don't like the implication that all drugs are bad, and the

people

quoted 3 lines on them are bad. Who sets these standards. It sounds more like memetic

> on them are bad. Who sets these standards. It sounds more like memetic > control mechanism. When I first went to raves I was under the impression > that electronic music was terrible. The only reason I went was to look for

a

quoted 4 lines certain drug that I had been wanting to experiment for the last 5 years

> certain drug that I had been wanting to experiment for the last 5 years > before hand. Once I took this drug electronic music made allot more sense, > actually allot of things made a lot more sense, but that is beside the > point. Today I no longer do drugs. Besides the occasional psychedelic

maybe

quoted 5 lines once or twice a year. I guess I grew out of them. But I didn't grow out of

> once or twice a year. I guess I grew out of them. But I didn't grow out of > my love for electronic music it becomes wider and deeper everyday. You can > blame this on those evil drugs. > > Lastly, the 50% of the 2000 you mentioned. Is that just a device to prove

a

quoted 13 lines point. Or do you actually do representative sampling when you go to these

> point. Or do you actually do representative sampling when you go to these > events? > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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Rich Warchild said:

quoted 10 lines Your right, there are alot more alcohol related accidents, deaths and

> Your right, there are alot more alcohol related accidents, deaths and > crimes the rave drug related... but the goverment isn't trying to shut > down every bar as compared to raves. > > I never said drugs were bad, if someone wants to do them i tihnk they > should be allowed to. It is their own body after all. I'm sure > drugs influenced alot of music, that has been prooven thru out history. > My problems with drugs is public use of them where the goverment sees > it and enforces stricter laws on promoters and venues. Venues are > impossible to find where i live.

I'm not anti-drug. I'm pro-drug. I think the government should legalize such substances, cover them with warnings and disclaimers, tax the hell out of them, and spend the money from the tax to constantly educate people on WHAT the drugs do, not HOW to avoid them. it's like smoking. You can buy cigarettes at the damn grocery store when you turn 18, yet all the education is "they give you cancer" and "your breath stinks." Where's the education saying what the GOOD things are? What does the high feel like? How many kids have gotten addicted to cigarettes simply due to experimentation? If the government were to heavily regulate the drug industry, it would a) undercut 3rd world production of drugs and eliminate drug cartels. Why get it from a shady dealer for super-high prices and possibly cut with drano when you can get it from Food Mart? it would b) reduce accidental death from taking some "bad drugs" and help people understand what they're taking when they take something at a party. The downside is that using drugs against someone else (slipping it into drinks, food, etc.) might become more widespread. Overdosing might also be more widespread due to the higher availability. But all of that's available now already, just on the black market, and the government has no say in education nor control of the product. If it passed through the FDA, there'd be a HELL of a lot better drug control than the laughable "war on drugs." I've never done illegal drugs, not because of some moral high ground or religion (i'm atheist), but it's just never interested me. I'd probably have a similar lack of interest if they were legal -- after all, i've never smoked a cigarette either. that doesn't mean that there aren't others who DO want access to those substances, and criminalizing it is stupid -- it simply fills prisons with non-violent, passive offenders, while actual drug dealers rake in non-taxed income and simply bribe US customs whilst coming across the border. But saying they're required to have a good time is pretty daft, as is complaining that it's unfair for the government to crack down on them as the laws stand. Change the laws! They're not gonna lax up on people until that happens. derek -- eggytoast.com - eggtastic.com ------ it's in your grocer's freezer --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

illegal substances are consumed at the parties and NOT at the parties. paRTIES ARE closed by gestapo anyway- even if nobody takes drugs if someone doesnt know here- NYC has and uses the cabaret law, which dates back to 20s, 30s, was passed to stop butleging and also to stop white kids going to black music joints Cabaret Law was again puled out of garbage in the mid 90s to attack dance culture it is ILLEGAL for any promoter- at the bar, club, warehouse, anywhere to organize a party where more than 3 people are rythmically moving(dancing) stop this idiotic ranting about drugs, no offence, it never was or is about drugs __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 3 lines Then they should get the appropriate licenses and

> Then they should get the appropriate licenses and > permits. You're not going > to win anyone over by blatantly breaking the law.

Appropriate licenses? Permits? To gather and dance? I strongly believe that the more laws and rules you make the more it lessens the respect that society has for laws that actually are meaningful. So do we blame society for "being human" or hold sacred a rule which has no business existing to begin with?

quoted 2 lines And the gestapo haven't been around for the past 50+

> And the gestapo haven't been around for the past 50+ > years.

Of course not, but a colorful analogy isn't entirely uncalled for. Especially concerning the general climate and attitude at hand: I for one have heard some downright insane stories about gatherings being broken up on grounds none other than lack of a piece of goddam paper. No, there is a point where laws are quite counterproductive to the benefit of society and "blatantly breaking" them is nothing more than being human. In this case, a desire to gather and socialize. As for "winning people over": about alcohol being illegal at one time - people broke that law, as they should have, and eventually (too long and after much needless suffering - not to mention a good boost for organized crime) Sorry if this example is too ancient, but the theory behind it and the lessons learned are timeless. Mandating a permit for everything only demonizes many people who want to be human. Brandon __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

kids are *STILL* doing the vix and pacifiers??? that's soo 1993-4, (earlier?). my beef with the drugged out ravers were the ones who became comatose or needed to have some sorta dry-humping at a rave. The people in these groups did not dance or respond whatsoever to the MUSIC. I got high, even higher than many of party-goers, but never did I lose my interest in the music. My biggest complaint were the keeps who just couldn't move and they'd sit in the middle of the dancefloor. if you don't wanna dance, be high, but move to the back, please! after a few years of constant struggle with these disrespectful selfish fucks I left the "scene" Rich Warchild <Warchild@DJWarchild.com> wrote: Your right, there are alot more alcohol related accidents, deaths and crimes the rave drug related... but the goverment isn't trying to shut down every bar as compared to raves. I never said drugs were bad, if someone wants to do them i tihnk they should be allowed to. It is their own body after all. I'm sure drugs influenced alot of music, that has been prooven thru out history. My problems with drugs is public use of them where the goverment sees it and enforces stricter laws on promoters and venues. Venues are impossible to find where i live. As for the 50%, i don't go and count and sample.. it's just a rough guess from being there in person, seeing the puddles, kids inhaling vix, sucking on pacifiers and having the drugged up look in their eyes. Rich Warchild 781-856-3804 AIM: The DJ Warchild ICQ: 2021032 Affiliations Warchild (http://www.djwarchild.com) Ruffneck Playaz Crew (http://www.ruffneckplayazcrew.com) Airplane Clique (http://www.airplaneclique.da.ru) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Z Moser" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 4:37 PM Subject: Re: [idm] I killed dancing music

quoted 3 lines Over here though we'll get a venue with 2000 kids and i'd say a good 50%

> > > >Over here though we'll get a venue with 2000 kids and i'd say a good 50%

of

quoted 1 line them are on drugs and fucked up. Thats just from personal experience in

> >them are on drugs and fucked up. Thats just from personal experience in

my

quoted 7 lines area of the US. It's quite disgusting.

> >area of the US. It's quite disgusting. > > > I always find this a interesting perspective in on a music scene that owes > at least part of it's inspiration & roots to the condemned drugs, and drug > users themselves. There are whole genres that are specifically designed to > be experienced on some sort of drug, and many of the underlying elements

of

quoted 2 lines other genres are at least influenced by the use of drugs or the idea that

> other genres are at least influenced by the use of drugs or the idea that > the people listening to the music will either be on a certain drug or

would

quoted 8 lines have sometime in there life experienced that drug.

> have sometime in there life experienced that drug. > > It is equivalent to someone greatly admiring tie-dye t-shirts, but hating > that damn pot-smoking acidhead hippy who created it. > > Two side notes: > > First, I live in america also. Trust me there is allot more alcohol

related

quoted 1 line incidents of violence and deaths in relation to violence and death caused

> incidents of violence and deaths in relation to violence and death caused

by

quoted 1 line rave related drugs. If you don't trust me, just turn on your local news

> rave related drugs. If you don't trust me, just turn on your local news

and

quoted 1 line see how long it take to hear of someone who died in a drunk driving

> see how long it take to hear of someone who died in a drunk driving

related

quoted 5 lines incident, or go to a local bar or club and see tempers flare and fights

> incident, or go to a local bar or club and see tempers flare and fights > break out once the drinking gets started. Now do the same for rave related > drugs and see which proverbial hand gets full first. A person on a rave > related drug is more likely to want to hug you or engage in a intellectual > conversation. I am not saying that there are not bad effects, just that

they

quoted 5 lines miniscule when compared to the bad effects of legal drugs.

> miniscule when compared to the bad effects of legal drugs. > > This leads me to believe that drugs are just a scapegoat to underlying > reasons why governments want raves shut down. What the true reason is I > could only speculate. One thing I do know is through out history

governments

quoted 3 lines have never liked large gathering of open minded youngsters.

> have never liked large gathering of open minded youngsters. > > Second, I don't like the implication that all drugs are bad, and the

people

quoted 3 lines on them are bad. Who sets these standards. It sounds more like memetic

> on them are bad. Who sets these standards. It sounds more like memetic > control mechanism. When I first went to raves I was under the impression > that electronic music was terrible. The only reason I went was to look for

a

quoted 4 lines certain drug that I had been wanting to experiment for the last 5 years

> certain drug that I had been wanting to experiment for the last 5 years > before hand. Once I took this drug electronic music made allot more sense, > actually allot of things made a lot more sense, but that is beside the > point. Today I no longer do drugs. Besides the occasional psychedelic

maybe

quoted 5 lines once or twice a year. I guess I grew out of them. But I didn't grow out of

> once or twice a year. I guess I grew out of them. But I didn't grow out of > my love for electronic music it becomes wider and deeper everyday. You can > blame this on those evil drugs. > > Lastly, the 50% of the 2000 you mentioned. Is that just a device to prove

a

quoted 13 lines point. Or do you actually do representative sampling when you go to these

> point. Or do you actually do representative sampling when you go to these > events? > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software

Damn holmes.. that is a really fucking retarded law.. Kinda like oral sex is illegal in certain states, and you can't drive with a sheep in the front seat of your vehicle.. Also on sundays you can carry a rifle thru boston commons to protect yourself from bears.. Rich Warchild 781-856-3804 AIM: The DJ Warchild ICQ: 2021032 Affiliations Warchild (http://www.djwarchild.com) Ruffneck Playaz Crew (http://www.ruffneckplayazcrew.com) Airplane Clique (http://www.airplaneclique.da.ru) ----- Original Message ----- From: "svin" <svinrave@yahoo.com> To: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 5:57 PM Subject: [idm] it is about dancing music not drugs

quoted 39 lines illegal substances are consumed at the parties

> illegal substances are consumed at the parties > and > NOT at the parties. > > paRTIES ARE closed by gestapo > anyway- > even if nobody takes drugs > > if someone doesnt know here- > > NYC has and uses the cabaret law, > which dates back to 20s, 30s, > was passed to stop butleging and also to stop > white kids going to black music joints > > Cabaret Law was again puled out of garbage in the > mid 90s to attack dance culture > > it is ILLEGAL for any promoter- at the bar, club, > warehouse, anywhere > to organize a party where more than 3 people are > rythmically moving(dancing) > > stop this idiotic ranting about drugs, > no offence, > > it never was or is about drugs > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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At 08:04 PM 8/13/2003 -0400, you wrote:

quoted 3 lines Damn holmes.. that is a really fucking retarded law..

>Damn holmes.. that is a really fucking retarded law.. > >Kinda like oral sex is illegal in certain states,

I believe SCOTUS ruled that such laws are unconstitutional. At least, that's how I interpretted the gay sex case recently seen by SCOTUS. If that's the case, then the state laws are null and void now. derek -- eggytoast.com - eggtastic.com ----- it's in your grocer's freezer --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org