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Re: [idm] Music #2

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◇ merged from 2 subjects: music #2 · piehead records newsletter for october, 2002
2002-10-17 23:55Greg Clow [idm] Piehead Records Newsletter for October, 2002
└─ 2002-10-18 03:44Thomas Millar [idm] Music #2
├─ 2002-10-18 04:09Thad Biggerstaff Re: [idm] Music #2
├─ 2002-10-18 04:21Alan R. Lockett Re: [idm] Music #2
├─ 2002-10-18 04:44Max McLeod Re: [idm] Music #2
├─ 2002-10-18 05:04omz Re: [idm] Music #2
└─ 2002-10-18 13:39Brandon Tallent Re: [idm] Music #2
├─ 2002-10-18 14:43jeremy.axon Re: [idm] Music #2
└─ 2002-10-18 15:07EggyToast Re: [idm] Music #2
2002-10-22 23:39Portis Re: [idm] Music #2
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2002-10-17 23:55Greg ClowPiehead Records Newsletter for October, 2002 Scroll down for info on OUR NEWEST RELEASE ::
From:
Greg Clow
To:
Date:
Thu, 17 Oct 2002 19:55:30 -0400
Subject:
[idm] Piehead Records Newsletter for October, 2002
permalink · <5.1.0.14.0.20021017195434.00a921a0@mail.velocet.net>
Piehead Records Newsletter for October, 2002 Scroll down for info on OUR NEWEST RELEASE ::: PREVIOUS RELEASES ::: LIVE EVENTS ::: OTHER NEWS ::: ORDERING/SUBSCRIPTIONS ::: :::::::::::::::: OUR NEWEST RELEASE ::: The latest album in the Piehead Records 2002 limited edition series was released on October 11th and is now available for purchase (ordering details below): PIE009 : I Am Robot And Proud : _You Make Me This Happy_ I Am Robot And Proud (aka Shaw-han Liem) creates electronic music many people have tried to describe but few can pinpoint. An accomplished ear for melody helps to bring together tones and rhythms so fundamentally balanced and rational, they almost appear to have had no human input at all. The only element that disputes this theory is the actual, inherent humanity of the music. _You Make Me This Happy_ is a collection of remixes/reworkings that Shaw-han has produced/created for other artists from around the world, including The Uberkids, .tape., Stella Maris, Heidi Hazelton, Girls Are Short, GNG and Printed Circuit. Despite the disparate source material, all of the tracks manage to exhibit the unique sound and style that I Am Robot And Proud is rapidly becoming known for. ::: more info : http://www.pieheadrecords.com/releases/pie009.html ::: I Am Robot And Proud website : http://www.bloop.org/robot/ :::::::::::::::: PREVIOUS RELEASES ::: PIE008 : naw : _gibberish_ "gibberish serves up a generous slice of bouncy minimal techno with dub and experimental temptations... lovers of the minimal/experimental techno scenes will find interesting wizardry at work." [François Couture - All-Music Guide] ::: more info : http://www.pieheadrecords.com/releases/pie008.html ::: naw website : http://www.noisefactoryrecords.com/naw.htm PIE007 : Vague Terrain Recordings : _A Viable Alternative to Actual Sexual Contact_ "Ohhhhhh yeah... this has got to be one of my favorite albums this year. It has got to be one of the most thumpingly deep, pounding, and implicitly explicit recordings in my collection... the duo have easily out-grooved Boards of Canada with a super-charged verile take on the popularized style which makes the Scottish Warp superstars look like eunuchs." [Jon Whitney - The Brainwashed Brain] ::: more info : http://www.pieheadrecords.com/releases/pie007.html ::: ??? : http://www.google.com/search?q=Vague+Terrain+discography PIE006 : Multiplex : _Iroquois_ "The music of Multiplex is reminiscent of Arovane, Phonem and early Autechre, but is catchier. Multiplex also has its own distinct voice, often like a robot on the verge of a short circuit, due to the way they constantly push the envelope." [I. Khider - Exclaim] ::: more info : http://www.pieheadrecords.com/releases/pie006.html ::: Multiplex website : http://www.multiplexmusic.com PIE005 : Your Favourite Horse : _I Would Close My Eyes But All I See Is The Massacre_ ::: more info : http://www.pieheadrecords.com/releases/pie005.html ::: Your Favourite Horse website : http://www.scarcelight.com PIE004 : I8U : _grasshopper morphine_ ::: more info : http://www.pieheadrecords.com/releases/pie004.html ::: I8U website : http://www.I8U.com PIE003 : David Kristian : _My Three Suns_ ::: more info : http://www.pieheadrecords.com/releases/pie003.html ::: David Kristian website : http://www.davidkristian.com PIE002 : hellothisisalex : _the canadian spelling program_ ::: more info : http://www.pieheadrecords.com/releases/pie002.html ::: hellothisisalex website : http://www.hellothisisalex.com PIE001 : ARC/Aidan Baker : _Repercussion_ ::: more info : http://www.pieheadrecords.com/releases/pie001.html ::: ARC website : http://fade.to/arc ::: Aidan Baker website : http://www3.sympatico.ca/mokka :::::::::::::::: LIVE EVENTS ::: ::: Following their recent string of shows in Europe and the UK, MULTIPLEX have been asked back for some return engagements. Dates are confirmed in Eindhoven, The Netherlands (Dec 12th) and Barcelona, Spain (Dec 13th), and more may be added. ::: Plans are coming together for a Piehead Christmas party in Toronto on Sunday, December 8th. Full details will be announced on the website soon, and in next month's newsletter. ::: more info : http://www.pieheadrecords.com/live.html :::::::::::::::: OTHER NEWS ::: ::: The November issue of Shift magazine (www.shift.com) hit store shelves this week, and it's a special issue spotlighting the Shift 75, a list of "the most intriguing culture-makers, trendsetters and innovators in entertainment today." Why are we mentioning this? Because in addition to such extremely cool people & things as Chuck D. of Public Enemy, Ladytron, The Boondocks and Cex, the list includes - Piehead Records! We are flattered, honoured and somewhat confused to have been selected. ::: We've started constructing our plans for Piehead in 2003. Another monthly series of limited edition releases will definately be happening, and we hope to be able to announce the artists and other information in time for next month's newsletter. We're also working on a couple of full-scale CD releases that will hopefully come out next year. :::::::::::::::: ORDERING/SUBSCRIPTIONS ::: All Piehead releases can be ordered directly from us using credit card, money order or cash. ::: more info : http://www.pieheadrecords.com/mailorder Piehead releases can also be purchased from the following online sources: ::: Duotone Records, Japan : http://www.duotonerecords.com ::: Norman Records, UK : http://www.normanrecords.com In Toronto, you can buy our releases at: ::: Electron Music : 726 Queen St. W. (above Doc's Leathers) ::: Ping Things at The Ambient Ping : Tuesdays @ club nia/C'est What, 19 Church St. : http://www.theambientping.com In Montreal, you can buy our releases at: ::: Atom Heart : 364-B Rue Sherbrooke East : http://www.atomheart.ca/ ::: CD Esoterik : 1841C Rue Ste. Catherine Subscriptions to the 2002 limited edition series are still available directly from Piehead. Subscribing ensures that you will receive all of the 11 releases in the series mailed directly to your home as they are released, plus a subscriber-only compilation to be released in December which will feature EXCLUSIVE tracks from all of the artists in the series. New subscribers will be sent PIE001 to PIE009 immediately, and will receive the rest of the series as the albums are released: nov 11 : PIE010 : Andrew Duke : _Highest Common Denominator_ nov 11 : PIE011 : V/Vm : title t.b.a. dec 11 : PIE012 : Various Artists : title t.b.a. :::::::::::::::: Need more info on anything mentioned above, or just wondering what this whole Piehead thing is all about? The answers you seek can be found at http://www.pieheadrecords.com or by emailing us at hello@pieheadrecords.com :::::::::::::::: cheers, Greg & Sheryl Piehead Records :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Greg Clow ::: greg@stainedproductions.com ::::::::: concert & event promotions ::: http://www.stainedproductions.com :::::: electronic music radio & reviews ::: http://www.feedbackmonitor.com ::: electronic/experimental record label ::: http://www.pieheadrecords.com ::::::::: 158 Close Ave. 2nd Floor ::: Toronto, Ontario M6K 2V5 ::: Canada --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-10-18 03:44Thomas MillarThe really open-ended questions seem to bring out the best responses, so here goes: Who di
From:
Thomas Millar
To:
Date:
Thu, 17 Oct 2002 23:44:01 -0400
Subject:
[idm] Music #2
Reply to:
[idm] Piehead Records Newsletter for October, 2002
permalink · <B9D4FBC1.14B1%tmillar@comcast.net>
The really open-ended questions seem to bring out the best responses, so here goes: Who did you listen to /before/ you got into IDM? e.g. Depeche Mode, Bowie, etc. Not to say that you've necessarily stopped listening to those artists, but what was it that really got you going prior to your introduction to AFX, SQP, BoC, AE, K606 et al. Right. Next time I'll include more abbreviated latinisms (the OG emoticon). Tom --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-10-18 04:09Thad Biggerstaff--- Thomas Millar <tmillar@comcast.net> wrote: > The really open-ended questions seem to b
From:
Thad Biggerstaff
To:
Thomas Millar
Cc:
Date:
Thu, 17 Oct 2002 21:09:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:
Re: [idm] Music #2
Reply to:
[idm] Music #2
permalink · <20021018040957.13463.qmail@web21302.mail.yahoo.com>
--- Thomas Millar <tmillar@comcast.net> wrote:
quoted 8 lines The really open-ended questions seem to bring out> The really open-ended questions seem to bring out > the best responses, so > here goes: > > Who did you listen to /before/ you got into IDM? > e.g. Depeche Mode, Bowie, > etc. >
New Order's "Low Life" was the first album to get me into "alternative music"... I then got into Depeche Mode. Then discovered the world of 12"/remixes- it amazed me how people transformed the songs of Depeche Mode or New Order into long wonderful voyages of music (ever hear Dub Vulture?- a Bside of New Order's SubCulture 12"- still to this date amazing!). Around the same time I discovered Kraftwerk's "Computer World" - and it all (instrumental electronic music) followed from there for me... -Thad ===== Thad Biggerstaff ~ReSource~ daht73@yahoo.com music/mixtapes for sale/trade at http://www.biggerstaff.homestead.com/ "Not to forget, I 'museumize' myself; so that then I pay myself a visit and find me again in all the relics, to hand down memories from one to the other, like a genealogical tree, as if it were morning!" - Massimo Toniutti "Everything is a sign of something greater than itself." - unknown __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-10-18 04:21Alan R. LockettThe 'crossing over' seemed to occur for me between 1991-2 and '93-'94. Items acquired arou
From:
Alan R. Lockett
To:
Thomas Millar
Cc:
Date:
Fri, 18 Oct 2002 14:21:02 +1000
Subject:
Re: [idm] Music #2
Reply to:
[idm] Music #2
permalink · <1034914862.3daf8c2ea7c7f@www-mail.usyd.edu.au>
The 'crossing over' seemed to occur for me between 1991-2 and '93-'94. Items acquired around '91-'92:- Cocteau Twins Curve Massive Attack New Order One Dove Peter Gabriel Slowdive U2 (n.b. Achtung Baby) Wire various 'world music' artists (e.g. Salif Keita, Youssou N'Dour) Items acquired around '93-'94:- Banco de Gaia Black Dog Dreadzone Seefeel Orbital Pentatonik The Orb Trance Europe Express compilations [;-)] various 'world ambient/ethnotrance' (e.g. Loop Guru, Transglobal Underground) alan/beyond...sound Quoting Thomas Millar <tmillar@comcast.net>:
quoted 21 lines The really open-ended questions seem to bring out the best responses, so> The really open-ended questions seem to bring out the best responses, so > here goes: > > Who did you listen to /before/ you got into IDM? e.g. Depeche Mode, Bowie, > etc. > > Not to say that you've necessarily stopped listening to those artists, but > what was it that really got you going prior to your introduction to AFX, > SQP, BoC, AE, K606 et al. > > Right. > Next time I'll include more abbreviated latinisms (the OG emoticon). > > Tom > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >
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2002-10-18 04:44Max McLeodHi. I was loving Depeche Mode, Meat Beat Manifesto, the Cure, Nitzer Ebb, Front 242, New O
From:
Max McLeod
To:
Thomas Millar
Cc:
Date:
Thu, 17 Oct 2002 23:44:52 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] Music #2
Reply to:
[idm] Music #2
permalink · <57A7863A-E254-11D6-B7DB-003065B622B2@maxmcleod.com>
Hi. I was loving Depeche Mode, Meat Beat Manifesto, the Cure, Nitzer Ebb, Front 242, New Order, the Smiths, Ministry, Siouxie. During this time I was into Chicago's teen goth/dance scene (Medusas! Photon!) which exposed me to Chicago House and Wax Trax! label stuff. I came across Laurie Anderson's 1982 Big Science in high school and that was a HUGE influence on me. I found Aphex Twin through a remix he did of a Meat Beat Manifesto track. About a year later, the sister of someone who worked at Caroline gave me a promo of Mu-ziq VS. The Auteurs which led me to early Astralwerks which led me to early Warp which led me to this list which leads me most everywhere else nowadays. On Thursday, October 17, 2002, at 10:44 PM, Thomas Millar wrote:
quoted 3 lines The really open-ended questions seem to bring out the best responses,> The really open-ended questions seem to bring out the best responses, > so > here goes:
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2002-10-18 05:04omz>The really open-ended questions seem to bring out the best responses, so >here goes: > >W
From:
omz
To:
Date:
Thu, 17 Oct 2002 23:04:02 -0600
Subject:
Re: [idm] Music #2
Reply to:
[idm] Music #2
permalink · <p05010402b9d545e080b4@[192.168.1.100]>
quoted 14 lines The really open-ended questions seem to bring out the best responses, so>The really open-ended questions seem to bring out the best responses, so >here goes: > >Who did you listen to /before/ you got into IDM? e.g. Depeche Mode, Bowie, >etc. > >Not to say that you've necessarily stopped listening to those artists, but >what was it that really got you going prior to your introduction to AFX, >SQP, BoC, AE, K606 et al. > >Right. >Next time I'll include more abbreviated latinisms (the OG emoticon). > >Tom
Pink Floyd Skinny Puppy Art of Noise king Crimson Nurse With Wound Meat beat Ministry Butthole Surfers Bauhaus/Love and Rockets The The Neubauten Foetus Jesus & Mary Chain just a few off the top of my head :) -- my spine is the bassline ^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^-^ bli recordings http://www.hotweird.com/loaf/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-10-18 13:39Brandon TallentWow, I came from the opposite end of the spectrum. I was heavily into hardcore rock stuff
From:
Brandon Tallent
To:
Date:
Fri, 18 Oct 2002 06:39:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:
Re: [idm] Music #2
Reply to:
[idm] Music #2
permalink · <20021018133932.7601.qmail@web14702.mail.yahoo.com>
Wow, I came from the opposite end of the spectrum. I was heavily into hardcore rock stuff like sepultura, morbid angel, slayer, will haven, training for utopia, deftones, vision of disorder and other stuff like that. I was in a few bands in high school, and I ended up getting into electronic music (and then by extension IDM) around my junior year. The people in my band sucked and I found out through a few friends online about impulse tracker and the whole tracker scene. From there I first started hearing some electronic tracks (although most of them really sucked). I think roni size's newforms was the first electronic cd I bought. After that, it was all downhill. Even though I still enjoy rock occasionally, there just seems to be only so much you can do with guitars, bass, drums, and vocals. I'm much more interested in the infinite variety of sounds and textures of any good idm track. Brandon --- Thomas Millar <tmillar@comcast.net> wrote:
quoted 22 lines The really open-ended questions seem to bring out> The really open-ended questions seem to bring out > the best responses, so > here goes: > > Who did you listen to /before/ you got into IDM? > e.g. Depeche Mode, Bowie, > etc. > > Not to say that you've necessarily stopped listening > to those artists, but > what was it that really got you going prior to your > introduction to AFX, > SQP, BoC, AE, K606 et al. > > Right. > Next time I'll include more abbreviated latinisms > (the OG emoticon). > > Tom > > >
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quoted 5 lines To unsubscribe, e-mail:> To unsubscribe, e-mail: > idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: > idm-help@hyperreal.org >
__________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-10-18 14:43jeremy.axonCoil Godflesh Skinny Puppy Nick Cave NWA Public Enemy The DOC Tom Waits Propagandhi NOFX B
From:
jeremy.axon
To:
Date:
Fri, 18 Oct 2002 10:43:29 -0400
Subject:
Re: [idm] Music #2
Reply to:
Re: [idm] Music #2
permalink · <a05100302b9d5ccbfa51e@[24.103.194.239]>
Coil Godflesh Skinny Puppy Nick Cave NWA Public Enemy The DOC Tom Waits Propagandhi NOFX Bad Religion Operation Ivy Screeching Weasel Ministry & other Wax Trax! shtuff Frontline Assembly/Delerium/Intermix Deftones Sisters of Mercy blah. -- JA --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-10-18 15:07EggyToast>Wow, I came from the opposite end of the spectrum. I >was heavily into hardcore rock stuf
From:
EggyToast
To:
Date:
Fri, 18 Oct 2002 11:07:51 -0400
Subject:
Re: [idm] Music #2
Reply to:
Re: [idm] Music #2
permalink · <a05010404b9d5d1dc0247@[128.220.50.51]>
quoted 18 lines Wow, I came from the opposite end of the spectrum. I>Wow, I came from the opposite end of the spectrum. I >was heavily into hardcore rock stuff like sepultura, >morbid angel, slayer, will haven, training for utopia, >deftones, vision of disorder and other stuff like >that. I was in a few bands in high school, and I >ended up getting into electronic music (and then by >extension IDM) around my junior year. The people in >my band sucked and I found out through a few friends >online about impulse tracker and the whole tracker >scene. From there I first started hearing some >electronic tracks (although most of them really >sucked). I think roni size's newforms was the first >electronic cd I bought. After that, it was all >downhill. Even though I still enjoy rock >occasionally, there just seems to be only so much you >can do with guitars, bass, drums, and vocals. I'm >much more interested in the infinite variety of sounds >and textures of any good idm track.
I was listening to stuff like Tears for Fears, then found out that they weren't really doing anything anymore. Then I was listening to Crowded House, and found that they also pretty much stopped doing stuff. I realized through listening to them that good lyrics are hard to find, and so I stopped caring for lyrics shortly thereafter. I was then listening to Phish, but started to dislike them after finding out how atrocious their live scene is and how boring and annoying the average Phish fan is (not to mention the near necessity of drugs among their fans, which I didn't and don't do). Their studio albums had a lot of interesting things going on, though, and it got me more into appreciating music and the sounds of the music. It also helped me realize how much I hated songs that just repeated and repeated without change, as a jam-oriented band changes stuff up a lot. So now I was like 16 and I picked up some nine inch nails stuff and despite how awful "pretty hate machine" was, the other stuff was interesting and got me more into electronic stuff and, obviously, aphex twin and then blah blah. and yeah, I think one of the things that did it for me was the rather limited sound palate used in most popular or commercial oriented music, and discovering that there *were* people who made stuff that sounded good regardless of how approachable it was was fantastic. It's funny, too, because I *still* know people who listen to rather normal rock-oriented music and hear an effect and think "wow, that's a cool effect, I'd love to hear it used more," and then, of course, hearing a song that uses that effect in entirely interesting and worthwhile ways throughout the song and builds different sounds through that effect (like, say, granular synthesis or even just creative sampling) and only comment "yeah, that's neat, but I don't reall like it." I think a lot of it has to do with the stuff associated with the music, either a well-known name for some people or non-standard countries (like that atrocious french hip hop, ugh!), that gets people into music. I've been enjoying IDM and the IDM-list for years now, most thankfully due to the fact that there are people in the "scene" that are interested in hearing new music by new people and listen based entirely on the music, not on the on-stage antics or the history of the lead singer or how cool they are in the college rawk scene. derek --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-10-22 23:39PortisI was born in 1972, and i listened to hard rock initially (Blue Cheer and Kiss). Mom bough
From:
Portis
To:
Date:
Tue, 22 Oct 2002 21:09:07 -0230
Subject:
Re: [idm] Music #2
permalink · <003c01c27a24$499666c0$0200a8c0@mshome.net>
I was born in 1972, and i listened to hard rock initially (Blue Cheer and Kiss). Mom bought Kiss' Love Gun home for me out of the blue and i loved the cover, so that was my first real album that i could call my own. I will always remember when i brought my Ace Frehley solo album to Show and Tell in Grade 1! A girl bumped me with her elbow because she had to show whatever she brought first and the album fell out of the sleeve and the first 2 minutes of Rip it Out and New York Groove cracked off the LP! When i was around 12, i started getting into Black Sabbath and Iron Maiden, and shortly after that was Celtic Frost and Metallica (around 1984-5). I was into speed/death metal for a few years and i also started to like old psychedelic stuff like The Doors, Led Zeppelin, and King Crimson. King Crimson's Three of a Perfect Pair was very influential to me at the age of 16-17 and i started listening to Skinny Puppy around this time. These two artists were the first i've heard of that you couldn't physically play the drums for. Hilt's Call the Ambulance (Before I Hurt Myself) also did this, and it mixed the aggression of industrial and thrash with some electronic additives and was also very influencial (1989). I also came across Nine Inch Nails' Pretty Hate Machine, which had a lot of electronics in it and was influenced by pop/structure. Also, i fell in love with all things "the Cure" and bought about a dozen of thier cassettes within about 6 months of hearing "Lovesong" on the radio while being driven to school by a friend. So by the time i finished high school, i was listening to Nine Inch nails, King Crimson, Pink Floyd, The Cure, Metallica, Skinny Puppy, etc. My uncle had a few releases by the Orb and some old compilations with React 2 Rhythm and stuff on it, and i made a mixed cassette for myself (1993). I then bought Orb's "Adventures..." and Orbital's "Diversions" within a few months, and also heard the compilation "In Order to Dance 4" shortly after i moved to Vancouver (1994). This release was sooo good at the time and it was very influential on future purchases because it had Aphex Twin's Digeridoo on one cd and Analogue Bubblebath on the other. It had FSOL's Papua New Guinea on it too! It also had CJ Bolland, Electrotete, the Infinite Wheel, Dave Angel, etc among the two discs. It really branched out from there, and i picked up Aphex Twin's "... I Care Because You Do" shortly after that and i was officially hooked for good. :) Troy (sorry so long-winded for my first msg to this list). ----- Original Message ----- From: Thomas Millar To: idm@hyperreal.org Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 1:14 AM Subject: [idm] Music #2 The really open-ended questions seem to bring out the best responses, so here goes: Who did you listen to /before/ you got into IDM? e.g. Depeche Mode, Bowie, etc. Not to say that you've necessarily stopped listening to those artists, but what was it that really got you going prior to your introduction to AFX, SQP, BoC, AE, K606 et al. Right. Next time I'll include more abbreviated latinisms (the OG emoticon). Tom --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org