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[idm] IDM as a Genre

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2000-06-30 17:37Kevin M. Ryan [idm] IDM as a Genre
└─ 2000-07-01 02:08Adam Piontek Re: [idm] IDM as a Genre
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2000-06-30 17:37Kevin M. RyanI say IDM is a mailing list and a genre. It's fine if some of you want to stipulate that I
From:
Kevin M. Ryan
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Date:
Fri, 30 Jun 2000 12:37:12 CDT
Subject:
[idm] IDM as a Genre
permalink · <20000630173712.5742.qmail@hotmail.com>
I say IDM is a mailing list and a genre. It's fine if some of you want to stipulate that IDM is a list and not a genre, but the fact is most people consider IDM a genre (at least implicitly). I think treating IDM as a genre makes good sense even though we can't slap a precise definition on it. When we talk about IDM music we all know what kind of music is being referred to, even though the music is incredibly diverse and doesn't seem to occupy a tidy commercial category like "house." Even if linguistic purists insist that IDM is merely a list, it's clear that the people on this list prefer to talk about a certain kind of music. And lots of people get a little annoyed when decidedly non-IDM musicians come up (say, Michael Jackson). If IDM is merely a list, then nothing is off-topic. Michael Jackson, Beethoven, and Britney Spears should all be welcome topics. The fact is the IDM list is *about* something, and that something is a certain variety of music--a music we sloppily refer to as IDM. Otherwise it's just a big coincidence that we talk so much about Warp/Rephlex/Schematic/ etc. You might argue that IDM is the list and we just talk about a bunch of different kinds of cutting-edge contemporary electronic music. I would reply that IDM, as a genre, *is* all this cutting-edge electronic music which doesn't really fit snuggly into traditional dance genres. Whether you choose to call it IDM or call it something else is a matter of linguistic conventionalism; the fact is we're both still talking about a category of music. Why not give that category a convenient little name? Now the linguistic purist might argue that IDM should not be a genre because IDM is so diverse and it has no universal properties-- putative IDM recordings have nothing in common. That may be true, but that doesn't mean IDM is useless or invalid as a genre. The fact is lots of recognized genres, e.g. "art" or "game," don't have any common, essential qualities (or if you can think of one for art I'd love to hear it). But the category is still understood by everyone, and it makes talking about these subjects much easier. (The idea that a category only makes sense if its members share a common quality is Plato's "essentialism"-- but most modern thinkers have thrown that idea out in favor of Wittgenstein's "family resemblances." According to W, members of a category need not have any single common quality; it is sufficient for them to have "overlapping similarities.") In IDM music there are enough overlapping similarities that IDM makes sense as a family of music even though IDM music may have nothing in common. And everyone treats it like a genre on this list anyway, so why fix it if it isn't broken? Putting things into a category for the sake of talking about it doesn't stifle creativity or group things that shouldn't be grouped or oversimplify the world: We all know perfectly well how imperfect language is and how otherworldly and ineffable this music gets. But words aren't the coffins of ideas--just because we're forced to make generalizations in language doesn't imply we don't appreciate the diversity or ingenuity of IDM. It's just we like to talk about it too, and to talk about anything you have to impose categories on it. You have to call it something. And there's nothing wrong with that, as long as people realize that the music stands alone as an art form and words can hardly touch its sublime real nature. Kevin ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-07-01 02:08Adam PiontekOn Fri, 30 Jun 2000 12:37:12 CDT, Kevin M. Ryan wrote: >I say IDM is a mailing list and a
From:
Adam Piontek
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idm-list
Date:
Fri, 30 Jun 2000 21:08:46 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] IDM as a Genre
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[idm] IDM as a Genre
permalink · <02093034854862@mirage.tcinternet.net>
On Fri, 30 Jun 2000 12:37:12 CDT, Kevin M. Ryan wrote:
quoted 1 line I say IDM is a mailing list and a genre.>I say IDM is a mailing list and a genre.
[snip long arguments] well, you won me over. you're right, it's a very very loose genre. one which (it would seem to me, anyway) by definition is constantly changing to include more things. since there continue to be new "cutting-edge" electronic music artists and techniques, IDM continues to expand to include them, while at the same time continuing to include "old" artists from the "early days" ... one might argue that artists from the 40's and 50's (such as those included on the "OHM" compilation) are IDM, since their music was electronic, with thought put into it, cutting-edge at the time, and quite interesting. The only reason not to include them would be that they existed pre-IDM-list, which seems sad to me. so i'm just wondering, where does it end? when do we realize that IDM really just means "new stuff we like?" as people talk about post-rock-type-stuff (and other non-electronic cutting-edge stuff) here, and as many other artists start to use electronic techniques... electronic music is fast becoming *NOT* a genre but simply a useless category. electronics are becoming just another accepted bundle of techniques in music, as basic as string instruments or wind instruments or percussion. this is not a perfect analogy, i know. my point is just that, to say something is "cutting-edge electronic music" is fast losing its meaning. i'm not arguing against talking about IDM. I just think the fact that "IDM" now includes so much is the main reason many on this list have started thinking the list is "getting worse" -- it's more complex and random because so is the category of IDM. back in the day when IDM maybe meant Warp, things were easy, yeah. but now, IDM means about 1000 labels and artists, if not more. let's rejoice, but at the same time, do the old standards like autechre ever *STOP* being IDM i would like to argue that, as time goes on, cutting-edge becomes standard, as certainly we can all see by the number of artists these days claiming to "sound like autechre." maybe there should just be a genre of music called autechre. i mean, they don't all sound like autechre, but then rock music doesn't all sound just the same either. -adam (PS - i wasn't being 100% serious 100% of the post) -- Adam Piontek [http://www.tcinternet.net/users/damek/] ICQ: 3456339 [damek@earthling.net] ... Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard drive? --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org