IDM Mailing Archive

1998-06-30 19:59Brad SheltonHeya, I'm completely enjoying a recently acquired copy of Derrick May 'Innovator' (2xCD)..

From:: Brad Shelton <bshelton@cte.net>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 14:59:50 -0500
Subject:: (idm) Derrick May 'Innovator'

Heya, I'm completely enjoying a recently acquired copy of Derrick May 'Innovator' (2xCD).. I've got a few questions about the release. One, Is this a straight repackaging of 2 previously released Derrick May full-lengths? It seems so on the one hand (disk 1 being 'Rythim is Rythim' and disk 2 being 'Mayday'), but on the other the tracks seem to be in some cases snippets, alternate mixes and otherwise non-standard versions (see below). Two, track 2 on disk 1 is labeled 'strings of the strings of life'. Is this _the_ 'Strings of Life'? If so, what's up with the name? Maybe track 12 disk 2 is the original.. ("strings" - the original mix) then again maybe it's the original demo version (my first impression).. Three, track 11 on disk 1 is labeled 'it is what it is'. Cool, that's one of the tracks the liner notes points to as one of May's 'timeless classics'. Only, the track clocks in at.. 9 seconds on the CD. So is this just a 9 second teaser for the real track, is the CD mislabeled, or what? =) In case you, the reader, don't know, this release is stellar. It's one thing to be told that 'Detroit is where it started', but it is truly fascinating to hear it for oneself. BDP's 'Bytes' in particular is clearly cast in the mold of Derrick May's material. Not a slam, but a compliment to all involved- it's a deep, beautiful sound. Thanks in advance for any answers/comments. Brad Shelton bshelton@cte.net

1998-06-30 20:47Lance C. McGannonAt 02:59 PM 6/30/98 -0500, you wrote: >Heya, > >One, Is this a straight repackaging of 2 p

From:: Lance C. McGannon <mclance@nacs.net>
To:: <bshelton@cte.net>
Cc:: Intelligent Dance Music Mailing List <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 16:47:46 -0400
Subject:: Re: (idm) Derrick May 'Innovator'
Reply to:: (idm) Derrick May 'Innovator'

At 02:59 PM 6/30/98 -0500, you wrote:

quoted 8 lines Heya,

>Heya, > >One, Is this a straight repackaging of 2 previously released Derrick May >full-lengths? It seems so on the one hand (disk 1 being 'Rythim is >Rythim' and disk 2 being 'Mayday'), but on the other the tracks seem to >be in some cases snippets, alternate mixes and otherwise non-standard >versions (see below). >

Well the Innovator comp release has actually been reissued three or four times. It originally came out as a single cd/lp on the UK Network label back in 1991. Then it was released on the Sony-Japan label in 1996 as a 2xcd. In late 97 Transmat reissued the Innovator comp 2xCD domestically. And now this week the Innovator comp is being reissued by the Open UK label as a 5x12". I believe there are changes to the track listings with each reissue so extreme May trainspotters are having to buy all the releases. Keep in mind that all these tracks are culled from Derrick 12"s on his own Transmat label plus tracks that were previously only available on assorted compilations. Here are a few of the eps that the Innovator tracks were culled from. Get these if you want the full versions of many of the edited Innovator tracks: . Rhythm Is Rhythm: Icon/Kaotic Harmony 12" (Transmat) . Rhythm Is Rhythm: The Beginning 12" (Transmat) . Rhythm Is Rhythm: Beyond The Dance 12" (Transmat) . Rhythm Is Rhythm: It Is What It Is 12" (Transmat) . Rhythm Is Rhythm: Nude Photo 12" (Transmat) . Rhythm Is Rhythm: Strings of Life 12" (Transmat) BTW: All the above eps are still in print at domestic prices. Yet another thing you have to love and respect about Detroit labels - almost everything stays in print and very little of that ltd edition balloney.

quoted 7 lines In case you, the reader, don't know, this release is stellar. It's one

> >In case you, the reader, don't know, this release is stellar. It's one >thing to be told that 'Detroit is where it started', but it is truly >fascinating to hear it for oneself. BDP's 'Bytes' in particular is >clearly cast in the mold of Derrick May's material. Not a slam, but a >compliment to all involved- it's a deep, beautiful sound. >

Agreed. Derrick May was a influence to many an idm and techno artist. I read a funny story in an old music mag about Kirk Degiorgio. I guess back in the early nineties Derrick May stayed with Kirk D when he was in the UK. And when derrick was there he decided to sell some of his old synths and drum machines. Well Kirk D bought them all. Derrick was nice enough to leave all the presets, drum patterns, samples, etc in those machines. So it's no surprise that Kirk's early releases have that smooth stringy detroit sound similar to Derrick's tracks. To further associate this story to IDM, remember that the famous ART label, home to stasis, carl craig (fellow detroiter & may collaborator), as one & black dog, was owned and operated by Kirk D - the man with May's synths. : ) -->-Lance--- p.o. box 450715 westlake, ohio 44145 united states

1998-07-01 09:30siliconvortexOn Tue, 30 Jun 1998 14:59:50 -0500, you wrote: >One, Is this a straight repackaging of 2 p

From:: siliconvortex <artist@sub-con-geo.demon.co.uk>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 09:30:28 GMT
Subject:: Re: (idm) Derrick May 'Innovator'
Reply to:: (idm) Derrick May 'Innovator'

On Tue, 30 Jun 1998 14:59:50 -0500, you wrote:

quoted 2 lines One, Is this a straight repackaging of 2 previously released Derrick May

>One, Is this a straight repackaging of 2 previously released Derrick May >full-lengths?

it appears to be the same as the japanese-issued innovator comp, judging from the track listings posted on web sites. but my r&s promo double cd doesn't have the ken ishii remix and the track titles are slightly different. it may be the same otherwise.

quoted 3 lines Rythim' and disk 2 being 'Mayday'), but on the other the tracks seem to

>Rythim' and disk 2 being 'Mayday'), but on the other the tracks seem to >be in some cases snippets, alternate mixes and otherwise non-standard >versions (see below).

derrick's added little bits to some of the tracks, mostly string sections at the start and finish of tracks. notably, the version of freestyle (found on the italian version of 'relics') has a complete string section overlaid onto it. some of the tracks are (sometimes very) shortened versions of tracks you can get elsewhere, like emanon and some of the 'relic' tracks. afair one old relic interlude appears here in a longer form.

quoted 2 lines Two, track 2 on disk 1 is labeled 'strings of the strings of life'. Is

>Two, track 2 on disk 1 is labeled 'strings of the strings of life'. Is >this _the_ 'Strings of Life'?

this is the 'ambient' mix - the mix on disc 2 is the 'original', or at least, the one that really broke mayday big.

quoted 5 lines Three, track 11 on disk 1 is labeled 'it is what it is'. Cool, that's

>Three, track 11 on disk 1 is labeled 'it is what it is'. Cool, that's >one of the tracks the liner notes points to as one of May's 'timeless >classics'. Only, the track clocks in at.. 9 seconds on the CD. So is >this just a 9 second teaser for the real track, is the CD mislabeled, or >what? =)

my cd has the full track..

quoted 1 line In case you, the reader, don't know, this release is stellar.

>In case you, the reader, don't know, this release is stellar.

yeah, but it means you still have to buy the other innovator compilation and relics, and virtual sex, and emotions electric, ad infinitum, to get a decent collection of derrick's music. and another thing - some of the tracks on this new compilation are /poorly/ mastered. i don't know what tapes they were using, but some of the tracks sound far worse than they do on my vinyl issues on kool-kat and transmat, namely tracks from 'the beginning' ep. if anyone has this and other mayday stuff (like maybe a cd version of virtual sex) and can cdr it, i'd be interested in trading :-) <waves>

1998-07-01 23:06Mark StevensOn Tue, 30 Jun 1998 14:59:50 -0500, you wrote: >In case you, the reader, don't know, this

From:: Mark Stevens <mark@sonance.demon.co.uk>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 23:06:58 GMT
Subject:: Re: (idm) Derrick May 'Innovator'
Reply to:: (idm) Derrick May 'Innovator'

On Tue, 30 Jun 1998 14:59:50 -0500, you wrote:

quoted 5 lines In case you, the reader, don't know, this release is stellar. It's one

>In case you, the reader, don't know, this release is stellar. It's one >thing to be told that 'Detroit is where it started', but it is truly >fascinating to hear it for oneself. BDP's 'Bytes' in particular is >clearly cast in the mold of Derrick May's material. Not a slam, but a >compliment to all involved- it's a deep, beautiful sound.

Don't forget 808 State's 'Quadrastate', which sounds exactly like a cross between Derrick May's early stuff and Herbie Hancock's 'Headhunters', with perhaps a vague sprinkling of acid house. Incidentally, 'Headhunters' fans may be interested to know that a sequel album, 'Return of the Headhunters' is now out. Well, actually it's three of the original line-up -- Paul Jackson, Bennie Maupin and Bill Summers -- with Hancock guesting. Of course, it could never be the landmark that 'Headhunters' was (if any of you out there have never heard this album -- drop everything *NOW* and go buy it -- no self-respecting IDMer should be without it), but it's still great stuff. Fans of the original album should enjoy it. /\/)ark http://www.sonance.demon.co.uk/

1998-07-02 13:21Ross VitaleOn Wed, 1 Jul 1998, Mark Stevens wrote: > Incidentally, 'Headhunters' fans may be interest

From:: Ross Vitale <rvitale@phoenix.marymount.edu>
To:: Mark Stevens <mark@sonance.demon.co.uk>
Cc:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 09:21:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:: Re: (idm) Derrick May 'Innovator'
Reply to:: Re: (idm) Derrick May 'Innovator'

On Wed, 1 Jul 1998, Mark Stevens wrote:

quoted 8 lines Incidentally, 'Headhunters' fans may be interested to know that a

> Incidentally, 'Headhunters' fans may be interested to know that a > sequel album, 'Return of the Headhunters' is now out. Well, actually > it's three of the original line-up -- Paul Jackson, Bennie Maupin and > Bill Summers -- with Hancock guesting. Of course, it could never be > the landmark that 'Headhunters' was (if any of you out there have > never heard this album -- drop everything *NOW* and go buy it -- no > self-respecting IDMer should be without it), but it's still great > stuff. Fans of the original album should enjoy it.

I have to agree completely, in fact I saw the new lineup live at the Tibetan Freedom Concert here in Washington, DC, USA. They were right on the money laying out a sweet jazz/funk hybrid. Unfortunately they were cut short when lighting struck the stadium, followed by a massive storm... Oh yeah, those Kraftwerk bastards ;-) cancelled their appearance as well, I wait all these years, what a let down... Ross

1998-07-03 01:24Mark StevensOn Tue, 30 Jun 1998 14:59:50 -0500, you wrote: >I'm completely enjoying a recently acquire

From:: Mark Stevens <mark@sonance.demon.co.uk>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 01:24:54 GMT
Subject:: Re: (idm) Derrick May 'Innovator'
Reply to:: (idm) Derrick May 'Innovator'

On Tue, 30 Jun 1998 14:59:50 -0500, you wrote:

quoted 2 lines I'm completely enjoying a recently acquired copy of Derrick May

>I'm completely enjoying a recently acquired copy of Derrick May >'Innovator' (2xCD).. I've got a few questions about the release.

Does anyone out there know when each track was written? I'm very pleased with 'Innovator', but I was disappointed to find no clues as to when each track was written. /\/)ark http://www.sonance.demon.co.uk/

1998-07-01 04:47albatross> >One, Is this a straight repackaging of 2 previously released Derrick May >full-lengths?

From:: albatross <albatross@ns.sympatico.ca>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 00:47:19 -0400
Subject:: Re: (idm) Derrick May 'Innovator'

quoted 6 lines One, Is this a straight repackaging of 2 previously released Derrick May

> >One, Is this a straight repackaging of 2 previously released Derrick May >full-lengths? It seems so on the one hand (disk 1 being 'Rythim is >Rythim' and disk 2 being 'Mayday'), but on the other the tracks seem to >be in some cases snippets, alternate mixes and otherwise non-standard >versions (see below).

"strings of life" is the original song, the classic that people are talking about when they mention the song. "strings of the strings of life" is an extended take on the song that leaves out most of the percussion. i actually listen to it more than the original. an interesting and related side-note: there's an interview with derrick where he talks about how he writes the whole track without drums and just adds them for effect later. that may explain why his music is funky as shit and a lot of idm is the un-funkiest music ever: he concentrates on _rhythm_ (aka groove, aka "the funk") first. "you mean rhythm and percussion aren't the same thing?"

quoted 4 lines Well the Innovator comp release has actually been reissued

>>Well the Innovator comp release has actually been reissued >>three or four times. It originally came out as a single cd/lp on >>the UK Network label back in 1991. Then it was released on >>the Sony-Japan label in 1996 as a 2xcd.

this version is very nice: a friend of mine got a couple in osaka: it's full of great asian futurist drawing and japanese script. very nice.

quoted 5 lines Here are a few of the eps that the Innovator tracks

>>Here are a few of the eps that the Innovator tracks >>were culled from. Get these if you want the full versions >>of many of the edited Innovator tracks: >> >>. Rhythm Is Rhythm: Icon/Kaotic Harmony 12" (Transmat)

i heard that icon was editied pretty heavily for innovator, which is a shame. has anyone actually compared individual cd tracks to the ones on the records to see which survived intact?

quoted 3 lines domestic prices. Yet another thing you have to love

>>domestic prices. Yet another thing you have to love >>and respect about Detroit labels - almost everything >>stays in print and very little of that ltd edition balloney.

...except stuff on kdj. sigh. i know that andres record will show up. someday. we who live in kdj-less lands can only hope for a compilation cd or something. take care, a.

1998-07-02 04:32SolenoidOn Wed, 1 Jul 1998, albatross wrote: > "strings of life" is the original song, the classic

From:: Solenoid <solenoid@thetics.europa.com>
To:: albatross <albatross@ns.sympatico.ca>
Cc:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 21:32:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:: Re: (idm) Derrick May 'Innovator'
Reply to:: Re: (idm) Derrick May 'Innovator'

On Wed, 1 Jul 1998, albatross wrote:

quoted 11 lines "strings of life" is the original song, the classic that people are

> "strings of life" is the original song, the classic that people are > talking about when they mention the song. "strings of the strings of > life" is an extended take on the song that leaves out most of the > percussion. i actually listen to it more than the original. > > > an interesting and related side-note: there's an interview with derrick > where he talks about how he writes the whole track without drums and > just adds them for effect later. that may explain why his music is funky > as shit and a lot of idm is the un-funkiest music ever: he concentrates > on _rhythm_ (aka groove, aka "the funk") first.

Yeah, funny I just listenned to this this morning and sat down to my drums to play along. It appears to be designed completely around a 4OTF bass drum and then it just isn't there in the mix. I was listenning to the version that has like 3 bass drum hits about 85% thru the track. spine-tingling! also, the piano part is quietest where the bass drum would hit, well, there is only a quiet, low piano note there, whereas it has a syncopated piano chord prog on the remaining 7 8th notes. This makes a definite "hole" which is never filled through the whole buildup of the melody, but, man sitting on a drum set you know what to do! THUMP! THUMP! THUMP! THUMP! 1, 2, 3, 4... I would guess that he was trying to do something funky on the piano (there are a lot of background bleepy bits that come and go, plus one string line that swells and end very abruptly and repeats) and then he finally removed the obivous bass drum so that the piano and strings could take an lead role as percussion. It makes for a very positive groove! What makes this song so great to me is the "missing" 4OTF bass drum that insinuates the dance pulse, and is held back like the final chord of a blues jam. I've heard it said that what makes the blues jam keep you ears hanging on so long is that hinting at the last satisfying element of the chord progression but never quite giving over to it. I've felt this with Albert King, Willie dixon and some Leadbelly. I think "Strings of Life" totally pulls those, uh, same, uh ..strings (oops, pun accidental i swear!) Well, the Strings of Life track does this chord prog like 1,2,3,3,3,3,3,3. That just leaves me wanting that 4th chord in the circle.... but it never arrives... so tantalizing! solenoid solenoid@europa.com <------+

1998-07-02 14:31thomas m weibrechtOn Thu, 2 Jul 1998 09:21:41 -0400 (EDT) Ross Vitale <rvitale@phoenix.marymount.edu> writes

From:: thomas m weibrecht <tweibrecht@juno.com>
To:: <rvitale@phoenix.marymount.edu>
Cc:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 10:31:16 EDT
Subject:: Re: (idm) Derrick May 'Innovator'

On Thu, 2 Jul 1998 09:21:41 -0400 (EDT) Ross Vitale <rvitale@phoenix.marymount.edu> writes:

quoted 2 lines On Wed, 1 Jul 1998, Mark Stevens wrote:

>On Wed, 1 Jul 1998, Mark Stevens wrote: >

quoted 4 lines Oh yeah, those Kraftwerk bastards ;-) cancelled their appearance as

>Oh yeah, those Kraftwerk bastards ;-) cancelled their appearance as >well, >I wait all these years, what a let down... >

hehe...should have made it to the nyc gig...quite a spectacle...btw, if anyone is interested in a copy of the tape, get in touch... tom w np: o yuki conjugate - primitive _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Re: (idm) Derrick May 'Innovator'