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Re: (idm) article by moby in Time

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◇ merged from 2 subjects: (idm) article by moby in time · (idm) re:article by moby in time
2000-02-16 21:04Frank St.Jacques (idm) article by moby in Time
├─ 2000-02-16 22:41Danny Freer Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
└─ 2000-02-17 05:05adam.florin Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
2000-02-16 21:27Chris Fahey RE: (idm) article by moby in Time
2000-02-16 22:40Robert Galbraith Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
2000-02-17 01:22Lee Azzarello RE: (idm) article by moby in Time
2000-02-17 03:08Helix Tradesman Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
2000-02-17 14:24Andrew Duke Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
└─ 2000-02-17 15:45Greg Clow Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
└─ 2000-02-18 09:58Irene McC Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
├─ 2000-02-18 10:07Paul Robinson Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
└─ 2000-02-18 10:17Andrew Hime Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
2000-02-17 16:29Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
2000-02-17 19:52kurt Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
2000-02-17 20:44Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
2000-02-17 21:27woo Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
└─ 2000-02-17 21:45Technotica (idm) Re:article by moby in Time
2000-02-18 14:23drift wood Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
2000-02-18 15:57Chris Fahey RE: (idm) article by moby in Time
2000-02-18 19:33kurt Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
2000-02-19 02:50Taiwan John Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
2000-02-19 07:48Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
2000-02-19 09:36drift wood Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
└─ 2000-02-19 18:46kurt Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
└─ 2000-02-19 19:06Jeff Shoemaker Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
2000-02-19 19:28woo Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
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2000-02-16 21:04Frank St.JacquesHello, There is a short article by Moby in the February 21st issue of Time magazine. It's
From:
Frank St.Jacques
To:
idm.list
Date:
16 Feb 00 16:04:44 EST
Subject:
(idm) article by moby in Time
permalink · <20000216210444.17242.qmail@nwcst323.netaddress.usa.net>
Hello, There is a short article by Moby in the February 21st issue of Time magazine. It's titled, "How will we Listen to Music". He suggests that in the future music will be instantly accessible and infinitely variable. For example, "People...will be able to...take the drums from a Led Zepplin song and put Billie Holiday's vocals on top of them and then play the whole thing backward and twice as fast but at the original pitch". Sounds lovely! cheers, frank ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-02-16 22:41Danny FreerAt 04:04 PM 2/16/00 -0500, Frank St.Jacques wrote: >There is a short article by Moby in th
From:
Danny Freer
To:
Date:
Wed, 16 Feb 2000 17:41:09 -0500
Subject:
Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
Reply to:
(idm) article by moby in Time
permalink · <4.2.0.58.20000216173610.00a679c0@horsetrading.com>
At 04:04 PM 2/16/00 -0500, Frank St.Jacques wrote:
quoted 7 lines There is a short article by Moby in the February 21st>There is a short article by Moby in the February 21st >issue of Time magazine. He suggests that in the future music will >be instantly accessible and infinitely variable. For >example, "People...will be able to...take the drums from >a Led Zepplin song and put Billie Holiday's vocals on top >of them and then play the whole thing backward and twice as fast >but at the original pitch". Sounds lovely! cheers,
Does he think there will be a time when you can take pretty good techno music and remove it completely and then replace that techno with embarrassing, shitty pseudo-punk guitar wanking? Oh, wait, he's already discovered how to do that. Forget I asked. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-02-17 05:05adam.florinthis idea of music being assembled by each individual for himself (rather than by professi
From:
adam.florin
To:
Date:
Wed, 16 Feb 2000 21:05:49 -0800
Subject:
Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
Reply to:
(idm) article by moby in Time
permalink · <v04003a03b4d11001668c@[207.44.229.204]>
this idea of music being assembled by each individual for himself (rather than by professional musicians) is not quite moby's invention. jacques attali, in his book _noise_, talks about the four stages of evolution of music, the last of which being a stage of "composition," which is essentially what moby describes. in fact, what he speaks of is already quite possible ; it's just that the average schmoe can't do it, only geeks and audiomeisters. the idea, i suppose, is that everyone should have access to these tools. "giving the people what they want" is very much a trend in pop culture these days, and as cheesy shockwave "music-makers" and cd-roms become more and more *interactive,* it will eventually be we the listeners that assemble each song based on our own specifications. i disagree with it all. it creates a sort of infinite loop : if people are given "what they want" from the get-go, how will they know what they want ? what i want is determined by my past experiences, namely a number of experiences that i did not want to experience. if i had gotten what i wanted all my life, i would be either a wreck or a total blank slate. in fact, all that i have to be thankful for is that which i did not want. and--to restore idm content--that is why it is a good idea to listen to ep7 repeatedly. (cf. recent thread, "Re: chiastic slide") i think, of my absolute favorite discs, probably one third to half i frowned at on the first listen. the most lasting music is that which introduces one to a new paradigm of listening, and therefore takes time to grown accustomed to. Noah Sasso wrote (in the "cs" thread) :
quoted 3 lines if you don't like it, don't feel like you have to listen and listen until>if you don't like it, don't feel like you have to listen and listen until >you do; listen >to something else that you actually do like, and you'll be happier.
instant happiness is played out. live the idm dream and listen to something that makes you feel a bit uncomfortable for a while...... .af. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-02-16 21:27Chris FaheyI don't think it's going to be too long until we can, like the crew of Star Trek, simply a
From:
Chris Fahey
To:
'Frank St.Jacques' , 'idm.list'
Date:
Wed, 16 Feb 2000 16:27:11 -0500
Subject:
RE: (idm) article by moby in Time
permalink · <99A78A9183B4D311B7CC00508B72D5D978DAF6@NY2MSG01>
I don't think it's going to be too long until we can, like the crew of Star Trek, simply ask the computer to play "something romantic, 18th century, slow tempo" or "something uptempo with a lot of bass and sitars" or even "play me something new that I'll like". I can practically do this already on Amazon.com. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-02-16 22:40Robert GalbraithDo we really need this level of interactivity. Isn't it enough to hear gospel and blues st
From:
Robert Galbraith
To:
Date:
Wed, 16 Feb 2000 17:40:43 -0500
Subject:
Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
permalink · <014301bf78ce$dc9658e0$49a35dcf@oemcomputer>
Do we really need this level of interactivity. Isn't it enough to hear gospel and blues stuff over fatboy slim beats. I'm always shocked at how the press chooses moby as a spokesperson for electronic culture. Rob component records http://www.mindstorm.com/component ----- Original Message ----- From: Frank St.Jacques <frank.st.jacques@usa.net> To: idm.list <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 4:04 PM Subject: (idm) article by moby in Time Hello, There is a short article by Moby in the February 21st issue of Time magazine. It's titled, "How will we Listen to Music". He suggests that in the future music will be instantly accessible and infinitely variable. For example, "People...will be able to...take the drums from a Led Zepplin song and put Billie Holiday's vocals on top of them and then play the whole thing backward and twice as fast but at the original pitch". Sounds lovely! cheers, frank ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-02-17 01:22Lee AzzarelloYou might be able to do it on Amazon, but do you like it? Does it really _know_ what you l
From:
Lee Azzarello
To:
'idm.list'
Date:
Wed, 16 Feb 00 20:22:54 -0500
Subject:
RE: (idm) article by moby in Time
permalink · <200002170128.UAA05300@college.antioch-college.edu>
You might be able to do it on Amazon, but do you like it? Does it really _know_ what you like? -Lee
quoted 1 line Chris Fahey wrote this on 2/16/00 4:27 PM>Chris Fahey wrote this on 2/16/00 4:27 PM
quoted 5 lines I don't think it's going to be too long until we can, like the crew of Star>I don't think it's going to be too long until we can, like the crew of Star >Trek, simply ask the computer to play "something romantic, 18th century, >slow tempo" or "something uptempo with a lot of bass and sitars" or even >"play me something new that I'll like". I can practically do this already on >Amazon.com.
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2000-02-17 03:08Helix TradesmanI read an article where the interviewer asked how he felt about doing publicity and he ass
From:
Helix Tradesman
To:
Date:
Wed, 16 Feb 2000 19:08:35 PST
Subject:
Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
permalink · <20000217030835.96418.qmail@hotmail.com>
I read an article where the interviewer asked how he felt about doing publicity and he assumed that when he was going to become a musician that he was going to have to do press. Now this fact alone is probably the reason the press has "chosen" moby as a spokesperson for electronic culture. Because he's one of the few electronic artists who doesn't tell interviewers to fuck off the first chance he gets. I think the reason he's an electronic culture spokesperson is because he makes himself easily accessable. You could say that he's pimping himself to the media, but whatever. Aphex Twin basically prides himself on fucking mainstream media at every turn. I wonder why magazines wouldn't want to continually try and interview someone who shows no interest in keeping appointments. Most mainstream music media is a business, and Rolling Stone probably couldn't give 2 shits about how good something that's popular is. However they do care about getting interviews with whoever is popular so they can sell magazines. Remember, it doesn't matter how good the music is, when it comes to popularity it's who can sell.
quoted 7 lines Do we really need this level of interactivity.>Do we really need this level of interactivity. >Isn't it enough to hear gospel and blues >stuff over fatboy slim beats. I'm always >shocked at how the press chooses moby >as a spokesperson for electronic culture. > >Rob
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2000-02-17 14:24Andrew Dukeagreed, rob. though i'm also a strict no drugs, no meat/animal products (strict vegetarian
From:
Andrew Duke
To:
Robert Galbraith , ...IDM list
Date:
Thu, 17 Feb 2000 10:24:49 -0400
Subject:
Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
permalink · <38AC04B1.13EBD046@ns.sympatico.ca>
agreed, rob. though i'm also a strict no drugs, no meat/animal products (strict vegetarian) person (not religious like him, though), try to do good kind of person with personal politics and such, i think moby is a total idiot. other than that "go!" track he did early on, it's just been crap, IMO. and i heard him do a dj set online recently and it was pathetic the horrible songs he was playing. if he's not a dj but his "name power" gets him dj bookings, he could at least play and expose his followers to some music of quality. he djed after derrick may and it was disgusting how moby totally killed the vibe may had built up. anyway, i'm digressing; i think it is apalling that white men like moby and fatboy slim and others bastardize black standards/spirituals/classics to make their "electronica" shite. how can that be "music for the year 2000?" (my quotes) heck, anyone with access to the Lomax compendiums can make money off the backs of dead black *musicians* and *artists* (i'm stressing the words on purpose). it takes some ethics to *not* do this, but fatboy, moby, et al seem content to toss all sense of morals et al out the window when it comes to making radio friendly poplectronica. related: every time i go into the local record store here, they're playing that aphrodite "album". the owner and i both agree it stinks, but he says every time he plays it, he sells copies. listening to aphrodite, it's obvious that it's all mantronix' "king of the beats", schooly d's "saturday night" et al, etc, etc, etc. but, with aphrodite making the big bucks and with major label support, does he clear those samples? NOPE! i can understand how/why people who press up limited runs of material on vinyl that uses samples don't clear their samples, but for someone like aphrodite making money on the backs of pioneers like schooly d and mantronix et al and not giving them *any credit* whatsoever in the liner notes, it shows that he cares only about the $. he can afford to clear samples, but chooses not to. the worst thing is that the kids getting into the aphrodite are *really* getting into the schooly d, mantronix et al that he's *sampling*, yet, because he doesn't credit them, schooly d, mantronix and the others that made his music possible don't benefit. some are about the $, while others are about the music. andrew duke Robert Galbraith wrote:
quoted 47 lines Do we really need this level of interactivity.> Do we really need this level of interactivity. > Isn't it enough to hear gospel and blues > stuff over fatboy slim beats. I'm always > shocked at how the press chooses moby > as a spokesperson for electronic culture. > > Rob > > component records > http://www.mindstorm.com/component > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Frank St.Jacques <frank.st.jacques@usa.net> > To: idm.list <idm@hyperreal.org> > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 4:04 PM > Subject: (idm) article by moby in Time > > Hello, > > There is a short article by > Moby in the February 21st > issue of Time magazine. It's > titled, "How will we Listen > to Music". He suggests > that in the future music will > be instantly accessible and > infinitely variable. For > example, "People...will be > able to...take the drums from > a Led Zepplin song and put > Billie Holiday's vocals on top > of them and then play the whole > thing backward and twice as fast > but at the original pitch". > Sounds lovely! cheers, > > frank > > ____________________________________________________________________ > Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
-- Cognition/Andrew Duke's In The Mix mailto:cognition@techno.ca http://techno.ca/cognition 1096 Queen St #123 Halifax NS Canada B3H 2R9 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-02-17 15:45Greg ClowOn Thu, 17 Feb 2000, Andrew Duke wrote: > i think it is apalling that white men like > mob
From:
Greg Clow
To:
...IDM list
Date:
Thu, 17 Feb 2000 10:45:31 -0500 (EST)
Subject:
Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
Reply to:
Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
permalink · <Pine.GSU.4.05.10002171027220.16931-100000@psyche.the-wire.com>
On Thu, 17 Feb 2000, Andrew Duke wrote:
quoted 13 lines i think it is apalling that white men like> i think it is apalling that white men like > moby and fatboy slim and others bastardize black > standards/spirituals/classics to make their > "electronica" shite. how can that be "music > for the year 2000?" (my quotes) heck, > anyone with access to the Lomax compendiums > can make money off the backs of dead black > *musicians* and *artists* (i'm stressing the > words on purpose). it takes some ethics > to *not* do this, but fatboy, moby, et al > seem content to toss all sense of morals et al > out the window when it comes to making > radio friendly poplectronica.
95% of what is discussed on this list is music by white folks that was born out of music by black folks. Western music in general has a not-so-proud tradition of taking the music of blacks and indigenous peoples and watering it down a bit for a white audience. Not saying that it's RIGHT, just saying that this is nothing new. As technology has changed, it's now possible to actually use the original works as part of the new composition as opposed to finding a white artist who "sounds black - but not *too* black" (i.e. Elvis) to interpet black music for acceptance by whites. But the premise is basically the same. All that being said, though - I don't view what Moby has done on "Play" to be as morally repugnant as what happened in the early days of rock & roll because unlike the 50s, "real" black music is actually being played on the radio/TV/etc., and is actually being listened to by white people. Hip-hop culture is massive and has crossed the colour lines sucessfully - even though some will argue that it took Aerosmith teaming up with Run DMC to do so. :) White people don't *have* to bring black music to whites, 'cause black people are now able to do it themselves. And to be honest (and at risk of losing my IDM-d00d street cred), I think Moby's "Play" album is fucking great. And this is coming from someone who has hated nearly every note the guy has recorded previous to this record. I still think that he's a bit of a knobhead in a lot of ways, but I think he has a true respect for the original music that he borrowed for the album, and I don't think he had any ulterior "getting rich off the backs of dead, black artists" motives. Whether you like him or hate him, you have to admit that Moby's track record proves that he does whatever the hell he wants/enjoys regardless of the resulting commericial success/failure. Greg -- Greg Clow - greg@stainedproductions.com - http://www.stainedproductions.com feedback monitor - electronic & experimental radio/reviews/interviews http://www.stainedproductions.com/feedback/ 158 Close Ave. 2nd Floor - Toronto, Ontario M6K 2V5 - Canada --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-02-18 09:58Irene McCOn 17 Feb 00, Greg Clow wrote re Re: (idm) article by moby in Time: > think Moby's "Play"
From:
Irene McC
To:
,
Date:
Fri, 18 Feb 2000 11:58:18 +0200
Subject:
Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
Reply to:
Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
permalink · <E12LkDL-0008AL-00@smtp03.iafrica.com>
On 17 Feb 00, Greg Clow wrote re Re: (idm) article by moby in Time:
quoted 3 lines think Moby's "Play" album is fucking great. And this is coming> think Moby's "Play" album is fucking great. And this is coming > from someone who has hated nearly every note the guy has recorded > previous to this record.
Yip : gotta agree with this and 'come out' saying so! Not right the way through, but some tracks are excellent - and I LOVE Honey. It's just sooooo infectuous that I have to hit the repeat button and dance around the room like a loon. The only other passable Moby is 'Hymn.alt.quiet.version' which is a half-hour single track of dips and swoops through a variety of soundscapes - great to lie back and close your eyes to. Virtually everything else he's done is total crap. Not that he cares what we think. I * np : Daniel Ibbotson / frequency & phase --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-02-18 10:07Paul RobinsonMoby's a one hit wonder IMHO.... :-) At 11:58 18/02/00 +0200, you wrote: >On 17 Feb 00, Gr
From:
Paul Robinson
To:
Date:
Fri, 18 Feb 2000 10:07:14 +0000
Subject:
Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
Reply to:
Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
permalink · <3.0.5.32.20000218100714.008c5420@mailgate.team17.com>
Moby's a one hit wonder IMHO.... :-) At 11:58 18/02/00 +0200, you wrote:
quoted 28 lines On 17 Feb 00, Greg Clow wrote re Re: (idm) article by moby in Time:>On 17 Feb 00, Greg Clow wrote re Re: (idm) article by moby in Time: > >> think Moby's "Play" album is fucking great. And this is coming >> from someone who has hated nearly every note the guy has recorded >> previous to this record. > >Yip : gotta agree with this and 'come out' saying so! Not right the >way through, but some tracks are excellent - and I LOVE Honey. >It's just sooooo infectuous that I have to hit the repeat button and >dance around the room like a loon. > >The only other passable Moby is 'Hymn.alt.quiet.version' which is a >half-hour single track of dips and swoops through a variety of >soundscapes - great to lie back and close your eyes to. Virtually >everything else he's done is total crap. > >Not that he cares what we think. > >I >* >np : Daniel Ibbotson / frequency & phase > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >
[paul robinson] [graphic designer] [team17 software ltd.] [united kingdom] [phoenix.team17.com] [www.team17.com] [worms.team17.com] --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-02-18 10:17Andrew Hime> > think Moby's "Play" album is fucking great. And this is coming > > from someone who ha
From:
Andrew Hime
To:
Date:
Fri, 18 Feb 2000 04:17:53 -0600 (CST)
Subject:
Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
Reply to:
Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
permalink · <200002181017.EAA65850@kali.wf.net>
quoted 3 lines think Moby's "Play" album is fucking great. And this is coming> > think Moby's "Play" album is fucking great. And this is coming > > from someone who has hated nearly every note the guy has recorded > > previous to this record.
Same here. I passed on _Animal Rights_, but I am very familiar with the catalog of Moby.
quoted 4 lines Yip : gotta agree with this and 'come out' saying so! Not right the> Yip : gotta agree with this and 'come out' saying so! Not right the > way through, but some tracks are excellent - and I LOVE Honey. > It's just sooooo infectuous that I have to hit the repeat button and > dance around the room like a loon.
It's his best work... if you need an enema, your instant response is of course "that's not saying much". But then, anything danceable or semi-popular is crap, right? My favorite track is actually "Porcelain", which as far as I can tell, doesn't even sample Lomax. Oh yeah, and I like Fatboy Slim too. That and good taste are *NOT* mutually exclusive. And I dare say he's not exactly in the poorest taste either. But then, he is danceable and (now) semi-popular. I remember when Skint had just started and some white kid in Texas was trying to figure out just who the fuck this guy was who did "The Weekend Starts Here". And then why it was pressed at 33rpm. Gack.
quoted 4 lines The only other passable Moby is 'Hymn.alt.quiet.version' which is a> The only other passable Moby is 'Hymn.alt.quiet.version' which is a > half-hour single track of dips and swoops through a variety of > soundscapes - great to lie back and close your eyes to. Virtually > everything else he's done is total crap.
Not true, there's also "Underwater", "Alive", and "The Rain Falls and the Sky Shudders". That's just on the ambient soundscape tip... I like a big cross section of his work, even the guitar stuff.
quoted 1 line Not that he cares what we think.> Not that he cares what we think.
When you're an artist, I think that's how you know you're right. Although then I wonder about Creed and Days of the New and Limp Bizkit. Yuck. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-02-17 16:29Steve81778@aol.comif only autechre were black right? steve << 95% of what is discussed on this list is music
From:
To:
Date:
Thu, 17 Feb 2000 11:29:36 EST
Subject:
Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
permalink · <73.1291f2a.25dd7bf0@aol.com>
if only autechre were black right? steve << 95% of what is discussed on this list is music by white folks that was born out of music by black folks. Western music in general has a not-so-proud tradition of taking the music of blacks and indigenous peoples and watering it down a bit for a white audience. >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-02-17 19:52kurt>i think moby is a total idiot. agreed, and "Play" is an embarrassment. >i think it is apa
From:
kurt
To:
Andrew Duke
Cc:
Date:
Thu, 17 Feb 2000 14:52:37 -0500
Subject:
Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
permalink · <v04011702b4d1ef7fb9ec@[216.220.111.143]>
quoted 1 line i think moby is a total idiot.>i think moby is a total idiot.
agreed, and "Play" is an embarrassment.
quoted 4 lines i think it is apalling that white men like>i think it is apalling that white men like >moby and fatboy slim and others bastardize black >standards/spirituals/classics to make their >"electronica" shite.
quoted 3 lines moby, et al> moby, et al >seem content to toss all sense of morals et al >out the window
is there really a moral priciple that could be followed about who can be sampled by who, and could it really be defined by race? I don't think so; you'd wind up with some sort of musical Jim Crow law (or a "protected species act"), albeit spurred by an empathy for a class/economic underdog. perhaps the problem is aesthetic, not moral. Moby managed to make a sow's ear out of a silk purse. His collages were too heavily reliant on the strength of somebody else's material, his creative contribution was to "personalize" something better heard on its own terms. had the result been truly creative and interesting, I don't think "moral" questions would arise about Moby. another issue lies in the old dialog about what constitutes a legitimate use of someone else's music vis a vis sampling. using little snippets or riffs to give color to a truly original piece of music is not problematic. using someone's entire song (as Moby does) without their consent becomes problematic, and that has nothing to do with class or race. as far as the black/white thing in music goes, there's just been such an enormous amount of borrowing/stealing of ideas, and more recently, direct samples, across "color lines" that I think it's really off base to get upset about some white guy using samples of music by a black person. think of all the hip hop acts that sampled white acts (rock bands, Kraftwerk, etc), think of the profound influence the white Tin Pan Alley songwriters had on jazz, etc. etc. It is pointless --and utterly untenable -- to expect musicians to rely only on musical resources by their racial/economic/whatever peers. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-02-17 20:44Cesium5Hz@aol.comIn a message dated 18/02/00 3:57:15 supine@bway.net writes: > > perhaps the problem is aes
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Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
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In a message dated 18/02/00 3:57:15 supine@bway.net writes:
quoted 9 lines perhaps the problem is aesthetic, not moral. Moby managed to make a sow's> > perhaps the problem is aesthetic, not moral. Moby managed to make a sow's > ear out of a silk purse. His collages were too heavily reliant on the > strength of somebody else's material, his creative contribution was to " > personalize" something better heard on its own terms. had the result been > truly creative and interesting, I don't think "moral" questions would arise > about Moby. > > another issue lies in the old dialog about what constitutes a legitimate
use
quoted 1 line of someone else's music vis a vis sampling. using little snippets or riffs> of someone else's music vis a vis sampling. using little snippets or riffs
to
quoted 4 lines give color to a truly original piece of music is not problematic. using> give color to a truly original piece of music is not problematic. using > someone's entire song (as Moby does) without their consent becomes > problematic, and that has nothing to do with class or race. >
What would we really say if Moby tried to do so with a UR track??? Is there any real difference with the issue of the Jaguar commercial copy - or does he get away with a more subtle rip-off of an original because he is Moby. A_Zed ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Program Co-ordinator, Ambient Zone RTRFM 92.1 [http://rtrfm.ii.net] Sunday Electronic Listening ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Perth, W.Australia (WST) 23.00-01.00 Chicago (CST) 09.00-11.00 London (GMT) 15.00-17.00 Detroit/ Windsor (EST) 10.00-12.00 Frankfurt (CET) 16.00-18.00 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-02-17 21:27wooblack/white - its all made on japanese instruments > as far as the black/white thing in mu
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woo
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Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
permalink · <008e01bf798d$dbdb5f80$6d00a8c0@cloyne.org>
black/white - its all made on japanese instruments
quoted 1 line as far as the black/white thing in music goes, there's just been such an> as far as the black/white thing in music goes, there's just been such an
enormous amount of borrowing/stealing of ideas, and more recently, direct samples, across "color lines" that I think it's really off base to get upset about some white guy using samples of music by a black person. think of all the hip hop acts that sampled white acts (rock bands, Kraftwerk, etc), think of the profound influence the white Tin Pan Alley songwriters had on jazz, etc. etc. It is pointless --and utterly untenable -- to expect musicians to rely only on musical resources by their racial/economic/whatever peers. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-02-17 21:45TechnoticaIn regards to the Moby issue...when one wonders how he became the 'spokesperson' for UG el
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Technotica
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Thu, 17 Feb 2000 16:45:50 -0500
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(idm) Re:article by moby in Time
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Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
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In regards to the Moby issue...when one wonders how he became the 'spokesperson' for UG electronic music. I think a large part of it is the fact that he simply made himself available to any media needing information...I have a large archive of magazines, and in a very large number of them he is on the cover and interviewed....at a time when most electronic artists shunned attention and publicity (it was considered quite gouache for awhile to even ask a certain Dj or producer for their autograph), Mobys willingness to share his news and views made him popular with the media circus who had been desperate for any info on this culture whose ideals and music eluded thier grasp and understanding of. Since they also saw that he had some tunes which did well, combined with his 'interesting' personal politics and family background, this made the publicity machine happy, for it took him from just being a person involved with the scene, to the cult of personality. The second concern that was raised regarding the appropriation of black music by some artists....well...what goes around, comes around I say....Mixmaster Morris said something like, "we spent the last so-many-hundred years making music, now it time to sample it. I have no real opinion if it's good or bad...I do know that I was kinda gettin a tad miffed by Puff Daddys re-inventions....and what about last years big rap hit sampling the hell out of 'It's a Hard Knock Life', well, I just heard another rap tune taking the chorus and melody riff from another white boys Broadway hit....so, who's calling the kettle black here (said with a wry sense of humor...I'm just throwing this out there...peruse at your own risk ;) Ok then Linda np-> ons engineering/monkey+1 on outward - futuristic exeriments that have a funky feel in a mash up mixed up kinda way ---------------------- Linda Leigh/L3 www.technotica.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-02-18 14:23drift wood--- woo <woostern@uclink4.berkeley.edu> wrote: >think of all > the hip hop acts that sampl
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drift wood
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woo
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Fri, 18 Feb 2000 14:23:01 +0000 (GMT)
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Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
permalink · <20000218142301.11611.qmail@web1102.mail.yahoo.com>
--- woo <woostern@uclink4.berkeley.edu> wrote:
quoted 10 lines think of all>think of all > the hip hop acts that sampled white acts (rock bands, Kraftwerk, > etc), think > of the profound influence the white Tin Pan Alley songwriters had on > jazz, > etc. etc. It is pointless --and utterly untenable -- to expect > musicians to > rely only on musical resources by their racial/economic/whatever > peers. >
Many successful businesses have been founded by the appropriation of resources from the disadvantaged, whether racially or economically. After all, that's one of the main foundations of capitalism. So it's no surprise when it happens in the music business. Whether it is Led Zeppelin stealing songs from dead blues musicians or swing bands like Glenn Miller presenting Jazz with an acceptable white face, it makes no difference. There is a very thin line between being a successful entrepreneur and being a criminal, demonstrated by the large numbers of businesman who discover themselves in gaol/jail. Sure the history of 20th Century music is dominated by the rape of Black music by the white middle classes, but it's no different, in theory (though, obviously, not in numbers of lives lost) from the subjegation and despoilation of different cultures by the British Empire in the 19th Century. Anyway, so er...what was the point I was trying to make? Ah yes, to paraphrase a recently deceased UK prime minister - Moby - the unacceptable face of Capitaism. Matt. ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-02-18 15:57Chris Fahey> The only other passable Moby is 'Hymn.alt.quiet.version' which is a > half-hour single t
From:
Chris Fahey
To:
'Irene McC' , 'IDM (E-mail)'
Date:
Fri, 18 Feb 2000 10:57:27 -0500
Subject:
RE: (idm) article by moby in Time
permalink · <99A78A9183B4D311B7CC00508B72D5D978DB38@NY2MSG01>
quoted 4 lines The only other passable Moby is 'Hymn.alt.quiet.version' which is a> The only other passable Moby is 'Hymn.alt.quiet.version' which is a > half-hour single track of dips and swoops through a variety of > soundscapes - great to lie back and close your eyes to. Virtually > everything else he's done is total crap.
I once heard a good moby track. It was a Jon Spencer Blues Explosion remix. It was kinda simplistic, but it still blew my mind. -cf --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-02-18 19:33kurt>> It is pointless --and utterly untenable -- to expect >> musicians to rely only on music
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kurt
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Date:
Fri, 18 Feb 2000 14:33:19 -0500
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Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
permalink · <v04011700b4d33be9ff96@[216.220.110.196]>
quoted 6 lines It is pointless --and utterly untenable -- to expect>> It is pointless --and utterly untenable -- to expect >> musicians to rely only on musical resources by their racial/economic/whatever >> peers. >> >Many successful businesses have been founded by the appropriation of >resources from the disadvantaged, whether racially or economically.
quoted 3 lines Whether it is Led Zeppelin stealing songs from dead blues musicians or>Whether it is Led Zeppelin stealing songs from dead blues musicians or >swing bands like Glenn Miller presenting Jazz with an acceptable white >face, it makes no difference. T
quoted 5 lines the history of 20th Century music is dominated by the rape of>the history of 20th Century music is dominated by the rape of >Black music by the white middle classes, but it's no different, in >theory (though, obviously, not in numbers of lives lost) from the >subjegation and despoilation of different cultures by the British >Empire in the 19th Century.
alright. we take it upon ourselves to learn from the mistakes of the past and no longer wish to perpetuate them. we understand how racism works and how an imbalance of power and economic resources has kept many black artists from enjoying the rewards enjoyed by white artists. but I don't see how your point of view leaves me -- Mr. White Guy over here -- room to work as a musician. black music has been powerfully influential on the larger culture, its influence is everywhere. rightfully, so it seems to me. how can I fail to absorb music by black artists that excites me, and reflect it in my music? does that really make me a rapist in the service of the evil empire? or does that just kick in if I have a hit record and make money off of it? how can you equate Led Zepplin's outright theft of a Willie Dixon song (obviously cynical and illegal) to Glenn Miller merely working in a style originated by black artists? Do they both reflect, in some way, racism? Sure. But what the hell was Glenn Miller supposed to do? Swing was the most exciting thing to come down the pike in the '30's, and he ran with it. Was his crime that his band was (unfortunately) one of the successful few? Should he have restrained himself? We he supposed to be Woody Guthrie instead? --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-02-19 02:50Taiwan John> I once heard a good moby track. It was a Jon Spencer Blues Explosion remix. > It was kin
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Taiwan John
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Chris Fahey , 'IDM (E-mail)'
Date:
Sat, 19 Feb 2000 10:50:51 +0800
Subject:
Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
permalink · <00bf01bf7a84$3c3f0ce0$0c1685cb@acer>
quoted 1 line I once heard a good moby track. It was a Jon Spencer Blues Explosion> I once heard a good moby track. It was a Jon Spencer Blues Explosion
remix.
quoted 4 lines It was kinda simplistic, but it still blew my mind.> It was kinda simplistic, but it still blew my mind. > > -cf >
Right on! If you're talking about a remix of "Greyhound." Two other Moby favorites from a cd of old singles: Have You Seen My Baby (Baby Mix), Mobility (Aqua Mix) John --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-02-19 07:48Steve81778@aol.comhis remix of greyhound is good, yeh, but about half as good as the fucking GZA remix, Kill
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Sat, 19 Feb 2000 02:48:07 EST
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Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
permalink · <b0.1983f87.25dfa4b7@aol.com>
his remix of greyhound is good, yeh, but about half as good as the fucking GZA remix, Killah Priest is fucking sick word to god steve In a message dated 2/18/00 6:45:21 PM Pacific Standard Time, jdalton@mail.net.tw writes: << > I once heard a good moby track. It was a Jon Spencer Blues Explosion remix. > It was kinda simplistic, but it still blew my mind. > > -cf > Right on! If you're talking about a remix of "Greyhound." Two other Moby favorites from a cd of old singles: Have You Seen My Baby (Baby Mix), Mobility (Aqua Mix) John >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-02-19 09:36drift wood--- kurt <supine@bway.net> wrote: >But what the hell was Glenn Miller supposed to do? > Sw
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drift wood
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kurt
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Date:
Sat, 19 Feb 2000 09:36:27 +0000 (GMT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
permalink · <20000219093627.21002.qmail@web1101.mail.yahoo.com>
--- kurt <supine@bway.net> wrote:
quoted 6 lines But what the hell was Glenn Miller supposed to do?>But what the hell was Glenn Miller supposed to do? > Swing was the most exciting thing to come down the pike in the '30's, > and he ran with it. Was his crime that his band was (unfortunately) > one of the successful few? Should he have restrained himself? We he > supposed to be Woody Guthrie instead? >
How about hiring some black musicians? Most of the swing bands led by White bandleaders only employed white musicians (bar a few honourable exceptions). Stealing the music is one thing but then operating a colour bar when hiring musicinas is quite another. Matt. np. Gato Barbiera - Bolivia ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-02-19 18:46kurt>--- kurt <supine@bway.net> wrote: >>But what the hell was Glenn Miller supposed to do? >>
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kurt
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drift wood
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Sat, 19 Feb 2000 13:46:18 -0500
Subject:
Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
Reply to:
Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
permalink · <v04011700b4d4840d62ae@[216.220.110.154]>
quoted 8 lines --- kurt <supine@bway.net> wrote:>--- kurt <supine@bway.net> wrote: >>But what the hell was Glenn Miller supposed to do? >> Swing was the most exciting thing to come down the pike in the '30's, >> and he ran with it. Was his crime that his band was (unfortunately) >> one of the successful few? Should he have restrained himself? We he >> supposed to be Woody Guthrie instead? >> >How about hiring some black musicians?
sure. but the thing I'm begging you to clarify is: at what point does the incorperation of "black" musical elements by middle-class white musicians become the "rape" or "theft" of black culture? I'm beginning to think that the point where it becomes dodgey is not when someone adopts the style or rhetoric of a genre, as for instance Glenn Miller did with swing, or legions have done with funk, house and so forth (do you really care if I learn to play sax like Charlie Parker?). the problematic stuff is when white vocalists attempt to portray a black persona, based on a demeaning idea of what it's supposed to mean to "be black". --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-02-19 19:06Jeff Shoemaker>the problematic stuff is when white vocalists attempt to portray a black persona, based o
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Jeff Shoemaker
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Date:
Sat, 19 Feb 2000 13:06:59 -0600
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Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
Reply to:
Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
permalink · <3.0.6.32.20000219130659.007b4250@texas.net>
quoted 1 line the problematic stuff is when white vocalists attempt to portray a black>the problematic stuff is when white vocalists attempt to portray a black
persona, based on a demeaning idea of what it's supposed to mean to "be black". anyone ever see the old tapes of Pat Boone singing R&B tunes on 50's variety shows? totally stripped the soul out of everything, yet it was the most "soulful," scandalous shit that most white people had ever seen. i've always thought those performances pretty much sum up what the previous poster is describing. . . OBidm: Wevie Stonder. okay, i _like_ this thing. it's certainly not a future classic or anything aproaching this, but it's still fun as hell. it's like ween vs. rephlex or something. the comparisons to Jones aren't out of line, but i personally find Jones to be simply irritating, while this makes me smile. ymmv of course. ------------ 1642 try 621 ------------ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-02-19 19:28wooEver see Pat Boone singing metal in the 90's? He dressed up all Alice Cooper. Vocalists li
From:
woo
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Date:
Sat, 19 Feb 2000 11:28:41 -0800
Subject:
Re: (idm) article by moby in Time
permalink · <001701bf7b0f$904db1c0$6d00a8c0@cloyne.org>
Ever see Pat Boone singing metal in the 90's? He dressed up all Alice Cooper. Vocalists like him are just performers, not musical innovators - they take whatever is popular and put on a pretty good show somewhere in vegas or branson. Whether its Elvis or Vanilla Ice, these guys were just trying to entertain their audience. Their fans liked them, not the music.
quoted 1 line the problematic stuff is when white vocalists attempt to portray a black>>the problematic stuff is when white vocalists attempt to portray a black
persona, based on a demeaning idea of what it's supposed to mean to "be black".
quoted 1 line anyone ever see the old tapes of Pat Boone singing R&B tunes on 50's>anyone ever see the old tapes of Pat Boone singing R&B tunes on 50's
variety shows? totally stripped the soul out of everything, yet it was the most "soulful," scandalous shit that most white people had ever seen. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org