IDM Mailing Archive

1997-01-10 10:30James SkiltonPixel8ion@aol.com wrote: > This is as strange as the post where someone (on this or one of

From:: James Skilton <jamess@ftp.com>
To:: idm <idm-owner@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Fri, 10 Jan 97 10:30:23 GMT
Subject:: (idm) regarding race

Pixel8ion@aol.com wrote:

quoted 7 lines This is as strange as the post where someone (on this or one of my

> This is as strange as the post where someone (on this or one of my > other lists) stated that he had a freind who thought that the use > of the term "Jungle" was racially demeaning. > > Peace > > Eric

Unfortunately there may actually be some truth in this. When the term "jungle techno" or "jungle tekno" first emerged within the UK hardcore scene as breakbeats and reggae samples were gradually added to the techno sounds, there was one story that the name evolved from abusive references to the music as "jungle bunny techno" by its detractors, "jungle bunny" being a term which some idiots use to refer to people of african extraction. This evolution would have occurred in the same reverse manner as the use of the word "nigger" by rappers and gangsters as exemplified by NWA. I do not know if this is true - do any junglists out there have any other theories (it's a bit like the various tales that exist for the origins of the terms "house" or "acid". Everyone has their own beliefs as history has become muddied) I am not trying to be controversial here - I am just relaying something of which I am aware by way of information. I quite agree that the queries about overtly racial, sexual etc. issues in musical genres are in general bizarre and extraordinary to me. Music is music, and even if what I have written above is true, I don't think it should be dwelt upon. Ah what the hell, why am I posting this at all? Well, for a wicked piece of hard, mad, fast "jungle", but with a dose of "intelligence", I recommend you just check Peshay's "Predator", recent on Metalheadz. It takes the style of the "Techsteppin'" compilation to a new level of darkness. I seem to recall there is a review at delsin (sorry, forcefield). later, J ^ __________ ________.__/_____ _||_/ James Skilton aka Steady J _[]/_____________[.__\____-_ DJ and Party Animal | | Part Time Hedonist |____________________________| Full Time Technohead |__|-' '-|__| jamess@ftp.com Autechre and SKAM discogs: http://subnet.virtual-pc.com/~sk393820/

1997-01-10 19:52Otto KoppiusOn Fri, 10 Jan 97 10:30:23 GMT, James Skilton <jamess@ftp.com> wrote: >Unfortunately there

From:: Otto Koppius <o.r.koppius@student.utwente.nl>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Fri, 10 Jan 97 13:52:38 CST
Subject:: Re: (idm) regarding race

On Fri, 10 Jan 97 10:30:23 GMT, James Skilton <jamess@ftp.com> wrote:

quoted 10 lines Unfortunately there may actually be some truth in this. When the term

>Unfortunately there may actually be some truth in this. When the term >"jungle techno" or "jungle tekno" first emerged within the UK >hardcore scene as breakbeats and reggae samples were gradually added >to the techno sounds, there was one story that the name evolved from >abusive references to the music as "jungle bunny techno" by its >detractors, "jungle bunny" being a term which some idiots use to >refer to people of african extraction. This evolution would have >occurred in the same reverse manner as the use of the word "nigger" >by rappers and gangsters as exemplified by NWA. I do not know if this >is true

I remember reading an interview with either Shut Up And Dance or SL2 (I forgot which one, but it started with an S) in an old DJ Magazine, where they said that they were angry/fed up with all the people calling jungle jungle, because of the racist connotations. Rebel MC has also said things along these lines.

quoted 2 lines I am not trying to be controversial here - I am just relaying

>I am not trying to be controversial here - I am just relaying >something of which I am aware by way of information.

Ditto.

quoted 6 lines I quite agree

>I quite agree >that the queries about overtly racial, sexual etc. issues in musical >genres are in general bizarre and extraordinary to me. Music is >music, and even if what I have written above is true, I don't think >it should be dwelt upon. Ah what the hell, why am I posting this at >all?

Because, unfortunately, as the Chinese saying goes : "A lie told a thousand times becomes the truth" Note: I'm not accusing anyone of lying, I'm just saying that the truth must be known and misinformation must not be allowed to spread. (now why am *I* posting this at all?) ObIDM: the new release on Juicebox (A Guy Called Gerald's label) is a beautiful piece of jazzy d'n b. Otto

1997-01-11 05:38connect@sirius.com>Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 21:11:51 -0800 >To:James Skilton <jamess@ftp.com> >From:connect@si

From:: <connect@sirius.com>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 21:38:02 -0800
Subject:: Re: (idm) regarding race

quoted 83 lines Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 21:11:51 -0800

>Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 21:11:51 -0800 >To:James Skilton <jamess@ftp.com> >From:connect@sirius.com >Subject:Re: (idm) regarding race > >Concerning the origin and use of the word "jungle" in reference to drum n' >bass--check it: >when early breakbeat music (XL records phase ala SL2 "On A Ragga Tip" >etc...) and the Ragga Drum N Bass style began using reggae samples many >of them were taken from dancehall 12" tracks (like the famous Jr. Tucker >sample "Oh My My My..." or soundbites from live-recorded "sound clash" >tapes from clubs in Jamaica where two sound systems go head to head. Well >on those tapes quite frequently the "selector" of the soundsystem gives >shouts and thanks to the audience (the "posse" or "massive"), many dances >are held in Kingston which is divided up into districts, certain districts >and housing projects have distinct regional names or nicknames. The 14th >precinct of Kingston is the Waterhouse area but it's called "Firehouse" >because of the violence that errupts there. Other areas of include Tivoli >Gardens, Seaview, Dunkirk, Rema and an area nicknamed Concrete Jungle. >Different gangs control the schemes such as the Spanglers posse, and the >feared Junglist posse. Because a lot of Jamaicans have migrated to London >and had a big part in the original drum n bass scene (Shut Up And Dance >Crew), they took on the name Junglist cause some of them been from that >area or have relatives or friends from Rema or Jungle. Because drum n bass >is an amalgamation of all UK/London urban culture from Techno to Dancehall >reggae to Hip Hop it makes sense for the term Jungle to apply the music >that people of Jamaican descendency pioneered.For Myself and some others >jungle apllies mainly to drum n bass with specifically reggae samples or >that type of dubby feel while the parent genre is "Drum N' Bass". But it >really doesn't matter the genre distinctions and sub-divisions ca' united >we stand, seen? All one in a one music. > >>> This is as strange as the post where someone (on this or one of my >>> other lists) stated that he had a freind who thought that the use >>> of the term "Jungle" was racially demeaning. >>> >>> Peace >>> >>> Eric >> >>Unfortunately there may actually be some truth in this. When the term >>"jungle techno" or "jungle tekno" first emerged within the UK >>hardcore scene as breakbeats and reggae samples were gradually added >>to the techno sounds, there was one story that the name evolved from >>abusive references to the music as "jungle bunny techno" by its >>detractors, "jungle bunny" being a term which some idiots use to >>refer to people of african extraction. This evolution would have >>occurred in the same reverse manner as the use of the word "nigger" >>by rappers and gangsters as exemplified by NWA. I do not know if this >>is true - do any junglists out there have any other theories (it's a >>bit like the various tales that exist for the origins of the terms >>"house" or "acid". Everyone has their own beliefs as history has >>become muddied) >> >>I am not trying to be controversial here - I am just relaying >>something of which I am aware by way of information. I quite agree >>that the queries about overtly racial, sexual etc. issues in musical >>genres are in general bizarre and extraordinary to me. Music is >>music, and even if what I have written above is true, I don't think >>it should be dwelt upon. Ah what the hell, why am I posting this at >>all? >> >>Well, for a wicked piece of hard, mad, fast "jungle", but with a dose >>of "intelligence", I recommend you just check Peshay's "Predator", >>recent on Metalheadz. It takes the style of the "Techsteppin'" >>compilation to a new level of darkness. I seem to recall there is a >>review at delsin (sorry, forcefield). >> >>later, >> >>J >>^ >> >> >> __________ >> ________.__/_____ _||_/ James Skilton aka Steady J >> _[]/_____________[.__\____-_ DJ and Party Animal >>| | Part Time Hedonist >>|____________________________| Full Time Technohead >> |__|-' '-|__| jamess@ftp.com >> >>Autechre and SKAM discogs: http://subnet.virtual-pc.com/~sk393820/ >

1997-01-11 14:48Pixel8ion@aol.comIn a message dated 97-01-10 06:02:31 EST, you write: > Unfortunately there may actually be

From:: <Pixel8ion@aol.com>
To:: <jamess@ftp.com>, <IDM@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 09:48:35 -0500 (EST)
Subject:: Re: (idm) regarding race

In a message dated 97-01-10 06:02:31 EST, you write:

quoted 6 lines Unfortunately there may actually be some truth in this. When the term

Ahhh shit. Well jusdt show's ya how much I know. I'll be pulling my foot outta my mouth as soon as possible. Eric