IDM Mailing Archive

quoted 20 lines Have a listen to yourself man!! You really sound like a pratt saying such...

>>>Have a listen to yourself man!! You really sound like a pratt saying such... >>>it's the music on the 12" that matters not the fact that it might have been >>>written by Richard D. James. >> >>>retentive people who couldn't give a fuck about the music but whether or not >>>it'll become a collectors item because it was written by the likes of >>>Richard D. James. >> >>I have been reading IDM, Ambient, 313 lists for some time now and get so >>bored of reading dozens and dozens of posts by frothy mouthed people who >>obviously have so much time on their hands that they can sit at their >>computer so often during the day to make posts about the most insignificant >>of details, and who obviously have so few other interests or distractions >>that they can actually go on at length about who Woodenspoon is or "maybe >>do you think that it might be some new side project" for fucking RDJ (he's >>a whole different topic, while he may be creative and innovative, he is one >>of the biggest drips I have ever met. I find it difficult to really care >>when he doesn't). > >i think the larger question here might be...with a list of over 800

members, why is so much of the conversation dominated by such utterly pedantic nonfacts about the same old thing...(granted, there is reason to look in that direction, now and again, but to dominate all your time with it... you would hope for more depth from people...just cause i like chocolate cake doesn't mean i eat it all the fucking time...) by the same old people (hey..in all sincerity, it's music lovers like me who appriciate all the knowledge you aquire, supply me with when i need to ask, and provide informative webpages, but there are some of you who tend to flood this list with more "frothing" details and announcements that get the kids all caffeinated) that frankly from nearly any standpoint, looks pretty dismal next to the crowd at the record stores. let me give you and example. i'm a dj, and pay pretty close attention to what comes out. heres a few we could have been talking about:

quoted 12 lines auto kinetic vs. freddie fresh (emf)

> >auto kinetic vs. freddie fresh (emf) >kimmo rapatti (dum) >omni trio "haunted science" >dark globe "take me to the sound" >air "modular" (mo wax) >two lone swordsman "the fifth mission" (3x12" on ewmissions) >pfm "mystics" (good looking) >beat classics "sampler" (dc recordings) >2 player "sometimes" (ntone) >new adventures "everythings gone green" (advent mixing no on internal) >ian pooley vs jaguar "2 cowboys vol2" (force inc. fella unmentionable

unless "warped")

quoted 3 lines delta "sex implosion" (electron industries)

>delta "sex implosion" (electron industries) > >all of these could fall under idm consideration for discussion, but the air

is thick with what is now accurately being described as warphlex tyranny. some of the less knowledgable (and obsessive) types would rather not say something about a record that they like, for fear of looking less knowledgeable (or less privvy to insider info). i try to combat this with (admittedly) poorly written reviews i could title "stuff no one else mentioned that's still good", but it is frustrating to put the info out there, to get maybe one or two acknowledgements. others address this point with the occaisional reappearance (everyone should thank ozy for a spooky view, but many of you who would have spent the do on found sound are now saving up for boy/girl, cause you believe the hype) but the lack of salicious cat and mouse games and "official" endorsement leaves the average listcontributor with little to reply to.

quoted 12 lines While I sincerely appreciate and support enthusiasm and interest in new

> > >>While I sincerely appreciate and support enthusiasm and interest in new >>forms of electronic music, I get sickened by the obsession with irrelevant >>details surrounding the music. It's no different than people who worship >>Elvis or religious fanatics, all of them are missing the point. >>I would like to see what others have to say about this. I am seriously >>considering unsubscribing from these lists as I don't feel I belong due to >>my interest in "music" and not it's conveyance. >>Robert Shea > >with everyones recent behaviour with the latest warp release, and knowing

that crypticism train is due to be spotted and studied with the new aphex release, it's easy to want offa this crazy list. to those who are considering jumping ship, consider contributing a musical opinion on some idm that you feel ain't getting it's spect. if everyone did, the list wouldn't be so tempting to bail.

quoted 10 lines PS: Instead of flaming me for reaching my limit and expressing it, how

> > >>PS: Instead of flaming me for reaching my limit and expressing it, how >>about considering the possibility of actually posting about the way the >>music makes you feel, or the way it sounds or was constructed or how it >>fits into the history of the movement. I have read so few posts on this >>list that actually make me want to go out and hear the releases mentioned, >>other than some of the thoughful reviews that get posted so infrequently. > >i may remind you that if you focus on covering a wide variety insted of

just your area of specialty, the list can rock bells (respect to many brains on 313 for keeping it informative, innovative relevant, and yet able to cover a broad variety of detroit artists with history, respect, and reverence) and respect to the idm listmembers who report from all areas of music (folks who love music and not collecting).

quoted 8 lines "son, the secret to being successful in fishing, and in life is...

> >"son, the secret to being successful in fishing, and in life is... > selection!!!" scott thomason, local pdx phather philophisizor and auto baron > >cameron > >on now "beats rhymes and life" check conan o brien for atcq apperance tonight >

===================================== cameron bowden cameron@imagina.com blacksmith on the anvil in your ear _____________________________________

On Wed, 14 Aug 1996 22:32:01 -0500 (CDT), you wrote:

quoted 6 lines Anybody out there heard the 2CD/3LP _Fifth Mission_ by Mr. Weatherall and

>Anybody out there heard the 2CD/3LP _Fifth Mission_ by Mr. Weatherall and >collaborator? I've only heard the one track by them that was on the Fresh >Emissions comp and was less than impressed (I guess I compared it to >Sabres, prob'ly shouldn't've). Is the new one similar and is the vinyl >identical to the CD or are there less/more tracks? Thanks in >advance......

We've had the CD on the office a few times and it's all right on a kind of inoffensive ambientish without whalenoises tip. g.

On Wed, 14 Aug 1996 16:47:55 -0800, you wrote:

quoted 3 lines i think the larger question here might be...with a list of over 800

>>i think the larger question here might be...with a list of over 800 >members, why is so much of the conversation dominated by such utterly >pedantic nonfacts about the same old thing...

Because only about 25 people out of that 800 appear to read things. If people read and remembered things there wouldn't be so many redundant posts about trivial crap. It really pisses me off when people who I know have been on the list for years leap in with "what's SKA001" or something equally over discussed. This has been a problem for years.

quoted 26 lines granted, there is reason to

>granted, there is reason to >look in that direction, now and again, but to dominate all your time with >it... you would hope for more depth from people...just cause i like >chocolate cake doesn't mean i eat it all the fucking time...) by the same >old people (hey..in all sincerity, it's music lovers like me who appriciate >all the knowledge you aquire, supply me with when i need to ask, and provide >informative webpages, but there are some of you who tend to flood this list >with more "frothing" details and announcements that get the kids all >caffeinated) that frankly from nearly any standpoint, looks pretty dismal >next to the crowd at the record stores. let me give you and example. i'm a >dj, and pay pretty close attention to what comes out. heres a few we could >have been talking about: >> >>auto kinetic vs. freddie fresh (emf) >>kimmo rapatti (dum) >>omni trio "haunted science" >>dark globe "take me to the sound" >>air "modular" (mo wax) >>two lone swordsman "the fifth mission" (3x12" on ewmissions) >>pfm "mystics" (good looking) >>beat classics "sampler" (dc recordings) >>2 player "sometimes" (ntone) >>new adventures "everythings gone green" (advent mixing no on internal) >>ian pooley vs jaguar "2 cowboys vol2" (force inc. fella unmentionable >unless "warped") >>delta "sex implosion" (electron industries)

well fucking review them then you idiot.

quoted 5 lines all of these could fall under idm consideration for discussion, but the air

>all of these could fall under idm consideration for discussion, but the air >is thick with what is now accurately being described as warphlex tyranny. >some of the less knowledgable (and obsessive) types would rather not say >something about a record that they like, for fear of looking less >knowledgeable (or less privvy to insider info).

fuck off. do you honestly believe this? people don't review stuff for two reasons: if it's no good, or if they can't be arsed. I posted the other day with the effect that people should review more stuff. come to a blech. no warphlex tyranny there.

quoted 4 lines i try to combat this with

>i try to combat this with >(admittedly) poorly written reviews i could title "stuff no one else >mentioned that's still good", but it is frustrating to put the info out >there, to get maybe one or two acknowledgements.

oh you just want attention! just because no one replies to your review doesn't mean they didn't read it or weren't influenced by it. I get fuck all feedback to my posts. I think this post can be filed as that old favorite "why isn't x talked about". short and blunt answer to that is a few paragraphs above.

quoted 4 lines others address this point

>others address this point >with the occaisional reappearance (everyone should thank ozy for a spooky >view, but many of you who would have spent the do on found sound are now >saving up for boy/girl, cause you believe the hype)

is a tracklisting hype?

quoted 3 lines but the lack of

> but the lack of >salicious cat and mouse games and "official" endorsement leaves the average >listcontributor with little to reply to.

What offical endorsement. i have my own opinions outside of warp. as I have stated before it is now hard to express them without people reading things into them - i try to make it fairly obvious which are 'warp' staements and which are 'greg' statements. as for cat and mouse games - maybe that's what it looks like from the outside but that is never the intention. sometimes it isn't possible to reveal everything about something at the time. like aphex and big love... oh fuck that I don't have to justify myself to you. do people ever call you a humourless bastard? it's games, it's trivial, it's not life and death...

quoted 5 lines i may remind you that if you focus on covering a wide variety insted of

>>i may remind you that if you focus on covering a wide variety insted of >just your area of specialty, the list can rock bells (respect to many brains >on 313 for keeping it informative, innovative relevant, and yet able to >cover a broad variety of detroit artists with history, respect, and >reverence)

respect and reverance(?) 313 is dry and contentless with imho.

quoted 2 lines and respect to the idm listmembers who report from all areas of

>and respect to the idm listmembers who report from all areas of >music (folks who love music and not collecting).

indeed. I think nearly everybody on this list loves music. That is taken for granted. g.

On Thu, 15 Aug 1996, g3 wrote:

quoted 7 lines On Wed, 14 Aug 1996 16:47:55 -0800, you wrote:

> On Wed, 14 Aug 1996 16:47:55 -0800, you wrote: > > >>i think the larger question here might be...with a list of over 800 > >members, why is so much of the conversation dominated by such utterly > >pedantic nonfacts about the same old thing... > > Because only about 25 people out of that 800 appear to read things.

Yes, the other 775 of us are frantically hitting the "Delete" key every time we see "Woodenspoon" in a subject line.

quoted 10 lines all of these could fall under idm consideration for discussion, but the air

> >all of these could fall under idm consideration for discussion, but the air > >is thick with what is now accurately being described as warphlex tyranny. > >some of the less knowledgable (and obsessive) types would rather not say > >something about a record that they like, for fear of looking less > >knowledgeable (or less privvy to insider info). > > fuck off. do you honestly believe this? people don't review stuff for > two reasons: if it's no good, or if they can't be arsed. I posted the > other day with the effect that people should review more stuff. come > to a blech. no warphlex tyranny there.

Funny how everyone I talk to believes this. Numerous people have told me they dropped off "The Aphex Twin Fan Club List" for this very reason.

quoted 8 lines i try to combat this with

> >i try to combat this with > >(admittedly) poorly written reviews i could title "stuff no one else > >mentioned that's still good", but it is frustrating to put the info out > >there, to get maybe one or two acknowledgements. > > oh you just want attention! just because no one replies to your review > doesn't mean they didn't read it or weren't influenced by it. I get > fuck all feedback to my posts.

Maybe he just wants to know that other people are enjoying the same great music he likes. It seems pretty obvious that you're the one that wants attention.

quoted 1 line do people ever call you a humourless bastard?

> do people ever call you a humourless bastard?

Not nearly as often as people call you a humourless bastard.

quoted 2 lines indeed. I think nearly everybody on this list loves music. That is

> indeed. I think nearly everybody on this list loves music. That is > taken for granted.

Sometimes I wonder if certain people really love the music or if they just love wielding obscrure facts about the people making the music. I'd love to see a "Warp/Aphex/Rephlex Trainspotters List", where the minority that is interested in Mr. James' haircolor this month could speculate on such trivia, and leave IDM a more musically oriented place. However, since our listadmin seems to be the founder of the Aphex Twin Fan Club, I doubt thats going to happen. But,in defence of our listadmin, since he takes the time to administer the list, it's only right that he do whatever the hell he wants with it, even if it doens't make me happy. That's life. Maybe it's time to go back to reading idm-reviews. Chill Che

On Thu, 15 Aug 1996, Che wrote:

quoted 13 lines On Thu, 15 Aug 1996, g3 wrote:

> On Thu, 15 Aug 1996, g3 wrote: > > Funny how everyone I talk to believes this. Numerous people have told me > they dropped off "The Aphex Twin Fan Club List" for this very reason. > > I'd love to see a "Warp/Aphex/Rephlex Trainspotters List", where the > minority that is interested in Mr. James' haircolor this month could > speculate on such trivia, and leave IDM a more musically oriented place. > However, since our listadmin seems to be the founder of the Aphex Twin Fan > Club, I doubt thats going to happen. But,in defence of our listadmin, > since he takes the time to administer the list, it's only right that he > do whatever the hell he wants with it, even if it doens't make me > happy. That's life. Maybe it's time to go back to reading idm-reviews.

I've been subscribed to idm on and off almost since its inception, and although a great deal of useless trainspotting goes on, I've found out a great deal of useful information and been turned on to some great new artists as a result of reading a review or getting a recommendation from someone on the list. Since the commercial music press is only now starting to cover more idm, I think it's been great to have this venue to share ideas and tastes with like-minded others, even if they are neurotically obsessed with tracking down every last ultra-rare super limited edition holographic-vinyl Aphex release.. Nothin's gonna change, so bear with it or sign off :). Cid

} Since the commercial music press is only now starting } to cover more idm, I think it's been great to have this venue to share } ideas and tastes with like-minded others, even if they are neurotically } obsessed with tracking down every last ultra-rare super limited edition } holographic-vinyl Aphex release.. ------------------------------- HOLY SHIT! WHERE CAN I GET THIS ?!! 8) /\/\/\/\/\ /\/\/\/\/\ / / / / / / E r i c F r a n s \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ franse@bigdog.engr.arizona.edu / / / / / / \/\/\/\/\/ \/\/\/\/\/

Warning: This post has very little specific music content. It probably belongs on a list called 'Meta-IDM' but that doesn't exist. Rest assured it's my last public post on the matter this year. However tempting the reply to a reply (if any) might be :) On Thu, 15 Aug 1996 11:16:48 +0000 (), Che <zeus8@synthcom.com> wrote:

quoted 8 lines i think the larger question here might be...with a list of over 800

>> >>i think the larger question here might be...with a list of over 800 >> >members, why is so much of the conversation dominated by such utterly >> >pedantic nonfacts about the same old thing... >> >> Because only about 25 people out of that 800 appear to read things. > >Yes, the other 775 of us are frantically hitting the "Delete" key every >time we see "Woodenspoon" in a subject line.

?? People don't pay attention to posts -> lot's of repeated boring information.

quoted 11 lines some of the less knowledgable (and obsessive) types would rather not say

>> >some of the less knowledgable (and obsessive) types would rather not say >> >something about a record that they like, for fear of looking less >> >knowledgeable (or less privvy to insider info). >> >> fuck off. do you honestly believe this? people don't review stuff for >> two reasons: if it's no good, or if they can't be arsed. I posted the >> other day with the effect that people should review more stuff. come >> to a blech. no warphlex tyranny there. > >Funny how everyone I talk to believes this. Numerous people have told me >they dropped off "The Aphex Twin Fan Club List" for this very reason.

You don't address the problem, why don't people review more stuff?? If people don't post about things, they won't see them discussed. It's their fault not IDM's. I personally find it rather perculiar that no one talks about early Djax stuff more, as most of it is totally ace. Djax in fact was one of the most influential labels of my musical 'youth' so to speak, ie 2-3 years ago, along with Warp, Plus8, and Transmat. However I have not found the time to explain my fascination with Djax. So I have never posted (much) about it/them. I cannot therefore accuse people of not talking about Djax, or of shutting Djax out, or of wasting their time on non Djax trivialities - because as a fan *I* should be talking about them, inviting comment and *not* complaining why others don't discuss the topic.

quoted 11 lines i try to combat this with

>> >i try to combat this with >> >(admittedly) poorly written reviews i could title "stuff no one else >> >mentioned that's still good", but it is frustrating to put the info out >> >there, to get maybe one or two acknowledgements. >> >> oh you just want attention! just because no one replies to your review >> doesn't mean they didn't read it or weren't influenced by it. I get >> fuck all feedback to my posts. > >Maybe he just wants to know that other people are enjoying the same great >music he likes.

Of course this is *fundamentally* what this list is all about, the love of a music that the majority of people don't seem to get, but if he doesn't post about it he will never know whether people like it or not. Feedback to posts (or lack of it) does not directly correlate to what people think about.

quoted 2 lines It seems pretty obvious that you're the one that wants

>It seems pretty obvious that you're the one that wants >attention.

Everyone wants attention, it's genetic. I don't bawl if I'm not getting it. In public anyway :) It's not cricket you know.

quoted 3 lines do people ever call you a humourless bastard?

>> do people ever call you a humourless bastard? > >Not nearly as often as people call you a humourless bastard.

what a witty and clever retort. some might say *incomprehensably* witty for an american (+).

quoted 5 lines indeed. I think nearly everybody on this list loves music. That is

>> indeed. I think nearly everybody on this list loves music. That is >> taken for granted. > >Sometimes I wonder if certain people really love the music or if they >just love wielding obscrure facts about the people making the music.

Sure the internet is full of fact-wielders, they provide a useful service as long as you don't have to listen to the same fact repeatedly...

quoted 1 line I'd love to see a "Warp/Aphex/Rephlex Trainspotters List",

>I'd love to see a "Warp/Aphex/Rephlex Trainspotters List",

That would be pretty sterile.

quoted 3 lines where the

>where the >minority that is interested in Mr. James' haircolor this month could >speculate on such trivia,

nobody is interested in non-music trivia. people want music, record-related trivia helps them get to it. I didn't know about the warp detroit anon release until it was brought up the other day. Odds on it's not amazing (other wise it would have been released properly eh? :) but I want to find that out for myself and in anycase place it musically in the histroy of Warp. Or something.

quoted 6 lines and leave IDM a more musically oriented place.

>and leave IDM a more musically oriented place. >However, since our listadmin seems to be the founder of the Aphex Twin Fan >Club, I doubt thats going to happen. But,in defence of our listadmin, >since he takes the time to administer the list, it's only right that he >do whatever the hell he wants with it, even if it doens't make me >happy. That's life.

I'm so glad that you will allow Alan to carry on doing what he's be doing successfully for 3 odd years or so.

quoted 1 line Maybe it's time to go back to reading idm-reviews.

>Maybe it's time to go back to reading idm-reviews.

No. Absolutely not. Maybe it's time you wrote some. It's certainly time for me to take this thread offline. g. (+) I reserve the right to retract this 'joke' and replace it with a relevent one if you turn out not to be american.

g3 wrote lots of good stuff which I won't repeat... That was an amazingly civilized response for a Limey. ;-) Che

On Sun, 18 Aug 1996, Che wrote:

quoted 7 lines g3 wrote lots of good stuff which I won't repeat...

> g3 wrote lots of good stuff which I won't repeat... > > That was an amazingly civilized response for a Limey. > > ;-) > > Che

right on! I agree "Incomprehensibly" (!). _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- J A M E S B E N J A M I N G I L L U N F O R T U N A T E L Y L I V I N G I N A R I Z O N A J G I L L @ U . A R I Z O N A . E D U tim taylor is coming to phoenix!! da bomb -- 8/30 ?? -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_

quoted 2 lines heres a few we could

> heres a few we could > have been talking about:

quoted 1 line kimmo rapatti (dum)

> >kimmo rapatti (dum)

Heh, there was just a funny discussion in the 313 whether Kimmo/Kim is a he or she, and I suggested eveyone interested to check out my Kim Rapatti/Mono Junk/Dum Records page at: http://www.sci.fi/~phinnweb/dum.html . Also http://www.sci.fi/~phinnweb/finn.html might provide a bit more info on Kim. Furthermore, everyone possibly interested in swapping links, let me hear from you. Sorry for the blatant self- propaganda for the nth time again, but I'm just trying to get this fucker around, since no-one else in this measly little country seems to be interested in spreading the word on Finnish techno, so just kindly suffer my rants :) ekku trerra@uta.fi http://www.uta.fi/~trerra http://www.sci.fi/~phinnweb PS. Kim's a he, for all you love-mad fans out there! :)

In a message dated 15/08/96 10:14:05, you write:

quoted 4 lines We've had the CD on the office a few times and it's all right on a

>We've had the CD on the office a few times and it's all right on a >kind of inoffensive ambientish without whalenoises tip. > >

ha ha nice description - you should write for the NME, I though the album rewarded repeated listens, in fact would be sold bold to say the recent Two Lone Swordsmen 12"s are amongst the best things Weatherall has ever been involved with , that seems to be the consensus up here! sonic assassin@4th world records http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/4thworld