IDM Mailing Archive

At 10:14 PM 7/1/96 -0400, and-e wrote:

quoted 4 lines Ok, well, here are some possible reasons for the

> > Ok, well, here are some possible reasons for the >absurdly "limited" Caustic Window release that I could come up with: >

And-e Confargous say: He who look deep in to the bowels of darkness find that which make him appreciate it even more. Me enjoy a Prime Rib more than a Krusty-burger, but must look harder and pay more shillings. Ohh! Poor guy! It is called economics. Rephlex has the right to print as many of them as they want big or small. Respect to labels like Rephlex who respect and preserve the Underground!! Fuck labels that are just trying to make money or their only aim is to sell as many records as they can. Maybe you should shell out $30 bucks and by a used turntable, cause you are missing out on a hell of a lot of vinyl only releases from many labels that are excellent, and judging from your list of c.d.'s you were selling you have something to learn about techno and idm that is not so mainstream! Part of the fun of trainspotting is that this music is not always the easiest to get, and therefore when you do find of real gem, it makes it all worth it. If you are serious about this music you should be able to line up a place to hook you up with the goods. Many stores have been mentioned before. Regarding the being cool thing, lay off it! I won't even start in on that. Lets just say being a Hipp-e, Groove-e, or Ton-e is a dime a dozen in my corner of the globe. You might want to lay off of the vowels, and spend the $$ on vinyl. derek

quoted 32 lines 1. an attempt at being cool

>1. an attempt at being cool >2. an attempt to make it hard to find and thus maintain the perception > that Rephlex is cool >64. a way to further irritate individuals whom live in the USA and > have no credit card, or acess to a decent cd store >9. a means by which to piss off all the people who constantly > attack every word Grant ever says. >36. well, I guess they wouldn't make any more money if the prices for > this become inflated, but they would look cool again. >13. uh, becuase the original copy was crushed by a hypercube > and has mysteriously disappeared into the 5th demension >57. along these lines, John Tesh, who is an alien according to > alt.music.techno, stole all the other copies and brought > them to his home planet for its inhabitants to enjoy >3.14. no rational reson whatsoever > >reasons that are not factors in this silly, annoying, small release: >1. low demand (as if there is a larger demand for the new Squarepusher > cd than this, hah!, so why not make a cd release?) >2. budget limitations(requiring only 1500 copies, I doubt it, even > HAB 2 had more than this I think). >3. uh... I don't know. > > SO, there is no way I am ever going to get a copy of this, and as >usual, I'll have to find anything I can, a long, long time after it is >released, if at all. Maybe someone can dub this new Caustic Window for >me if they are lucky enough to get it-please don't attack me and say that >this is illegal, if I could buy it, I would, but there wont be any left >for me. > >and e >

quoted 4 lines Confargous say:

> Confargous say: > He who look deep in to the bowels of darkness find that which make him > appreciate it even more. Me enjoy a Prime Rib more than a Krusty-burger, > but must look harder and pay more shillings.

oh, I see, you can attempt to be funny, but I can't, that must be becuase you are part of the "underground".

quoted 1 line Ohh! Poor guy!

> Ohh! Poor guy!

yes, I am wallowing in self pity becuase I am not as cool as you.

quoted 1 line It is called economics. Rephlex has the right to print as

>It is called economics. Rephlex has the right to print as

blah blah blah... I doubt this has anything to do with economics

quoted 2 lines many of them as they want big or small. Respect to labels like Rephlex who

> many of them as they want big or small. Respect to labels like Rephlex who > respect and preserve the Underground!!

huh? could you clarify this? what is the underground? how do I join?

quoted 6 lines Fuck labels that are just trying to

>Fuck labels that are just trying to > make money or their only aim is to sell as many records as they can. Maybe > you should shell out $30 bucks and by a used turntable, cause you are > missing out on a hell of a lot of vinyl only releases from many labels that > are excellent, and judging from your list of c.d.'s you were selling you > have something to learn about techno and idm that is not so mainstream!

alright, first off, the list of cds I was selling was for a friend,2ndly, if you took a look at James' sale list (Steady J guy), I think he would have "mainstream" stuff, some "worse" than I was selling, that you incorrectly assumed was mine and I'm sure he knows a great deal more about techno than you ever will, and can probably dj better than you. But you're right, "moses", its a good thing to judge people based on , well, nothing, and to make sweeping generalizations...(like I just did) you know nothing about me. I could possibly know more than you about your precious techno "underground". I have a turntable.

quoted 3 lines Part of the fun of trainspotting is that this music is not always the

> Part of the fun of trainspotting is that this music is not always the > easiest to get, and therefore when you do find of real gem, it makes it all > worth it.

agreed. but there comes a time when an artist becomes popular, and it seems only fair to meet the demand(look in your "economincs" books). there will still be plenty of "underground" stuff for trainspotters to look for.

quoted 4 lines If you are serious about this music you should be able to

>If you are serious about this music you should be able to >line up > a place to hook you up with the goods. Many stores have been mentioned > before.

what does it take to be serious "dr. giggles"? please tell me o' wise one, becuase obviously, from your obnoxious, condescending post, you don't percieve me as serious.

quoted 3 lines Regarding the being cool thing, lay off it! I won't even start in

>Regarding the being cool thing, lay off it! I won't even start in > on that. Lets just say being a Hipp-e, Groove-e, or Ton-e is a dime a dozen > in my corner of the globe.

yet its ironic that you remember it was MY "maintream" for sale list that was posted almost 2 weeks ago, probably because I signed and-e. On the other hand, I have no idea which Derek you are, nor, from your apparent intelligence and worldview, do I care.

quoted 2 lines You might want to lay off of the vowels, and

>You might want to lay off of the vowels, and > spend the $$ on vinyl.

fuck you

quoted 1 line derek

> derek

:D me and-e , and e, andy, or whatever I want to call myself laughing in your face.

quoted 2 lines oh, I see, you can attempt to be funny, but I can't, that must be becuase

> oh, I see, you can attempt to be funny, but I can't, that must be becuase > you are part of the "underground".

you were funny, i laughed hard. he was funny, i laughed hard. i advise not to even step to derek, he is very underground and knows his shit better than anyon e except *maybe* teep. look before you leap kid

quoted 2 lines Ohh! Poor guy!

> > Ohh! Poor guy! > yes, I am wallowing in self pity becuase I am not as cool as you.

well...

quoted 2 lines It is called economics. Rephlex has the right to print as

> >It is called economics. Rephlex has the right to print as > blah blah blah... I doubt this has anything to do with economics

what in the world would make you say that? OF COURSE IT DOES

quoted 3 lines many of them as they want big or small. Respect to labels like Rephlex who

> > many of them as they want big or small. Respect to labels like Rephlex who > > respect and preserve the Underground!! > huh? could you clarify this? what is the underground? how do I join?

dumb

quoted 12 lines Fuck labels that are just trying to

> >Fuck labels that are just trying to > > make money or their only aim is to sell as many records as they can. Maybe > > you should shell out $30 bucks and by a used turntable, cause you are > > missing out on a hell of a lot of vinyl only releases from many labels that > > are excellent, and judging from your list of c.d.'s you were selling you > > have something to learn about techno and idm that is not so mainstream! > > alright, first off, the list of cds I was selling was for a friend,2ndly, > if you took a look at James' sale list (Steady J guy), I think he would have > "mainstream" stuff, some "worse" than I was selling, that you incorrectly > assumed was mine and I'm sure he knows a great deal more > about techno than you ever will, and can probably dj better than you.

VERY VERY VERY VERY doubtful. like i said look before you leap. derek knows his shit, dont just talk shit for no reason, outta anger, we dont like that shit here

quoted 5 lines But you're right, "moses", its a good thing to judge people based on

> But you're right, "moses", its a good thing to judge people based on > , well, nothing, and to make sweeping generalizations...(like I just did) > you know nothing about me. I could possibly know more than you about > your precious techno "underground". > I have a turntable.

unh unh. derek doesnt normally do this either, i think he has close ties with rephlex. the man knows what he speaks.

quoted 9 lines Part of the fun of trainspotting is that this music is not always the

> > > Part of the fun of trainspotting is that this music is not always the > > easiest to get, and therefore when you do find of real gem, it makes it all > > worth it. > > agreed. but there comes a time when an artist becomes popular, and it > seems only fair to meet the demand(look in your "economincs" books). > there will still be plenty of "underground" stuff for trainspotters to > look for.

*buzzzzzzzz* wrong answer pal, you dont get it>

quoted 9 lines If you are serious about this music you should be able to

> >If you are serious about this music you should be able to > >line up > > a place to hook you up with the goods. Many stores have been mentioned > > before. > what does it take to be serious "dr. giggles"? please tell me o' wise one, > becuase > obviously, from your obnoxious, condescending post, you don't percieve me as > serious. >

your post was a joke you fool, stop making a goddam ass of yourself! this is not a flame, i'm just telling you....you better step back! j

quoted 18 lines Regarding the being cool thing, lay off it! I won't even start in

> >Regarding the being cool thing, lay off it! I won't even start in > > on that. Lets just say being a Hipp-e, Groove-e, or Ton-e is a dime a dozen > > in my corner of the globe. > yet its ironic that you remember it was MY "maintream" for sale list that > was posted almost 2 weeks ago, probably because I signed and-e. On the > other hand, I have no idea which Derek you are, nor, from your apparent > intelligence and worldview, do I care. > > >You might want to lay off of the vowels, and > > spend the $$ on vinyl. > fuck you > > derek > > :D me and-e , and e, andy, or whatever I want to call myself > laughing in your > face. > >

ok, I'll clarify. On Tue, 2 Jul 1996, jabberwalqee wrote:

quoted 5 lines oh, I see, you can attempt to be funny, but I can't, that must be becuase

> > oh, I see, you can attempt to be funny, but I can't, that must be becuase > > you are part of the "underground". > you were funny, i laughed hard. he was funny, i laughed hard. i advise > not to even step to derek, he is very underground and knows his shit > better than anyon e except *maybe* teep. look before you leap kid

oh, thanks. I have a mix Teep made, it has some "mainstream" stuff on it, I wonder what Derek would think of this, maybe Derek is more underground than Teep eh?

quoted 4 lines It is called economics. Rephlex has the right to print as

> > >It is called economics. Rephlex has the right to print as > > blah blah blah... I doubt this has anything to do with economics > > what in the world would make you say that? OF COURSE IT DOES

what made me say this: if Rephlex is planning on releasing this again later, fine, but if they are releasing only 1500 copies, prove to me that it has only to do with economics.

quoted 3 lines many of them as they want big or small. Respect to labels like Rephlex who

> > > many of them as they want big or small. Respect to labels like Rephlex who > > > respect and preserve the Underground!! > > huh? could you clarify this? what is the underground? how do I join?

quoted 1 line dumb

> dumb

well, I think people who think they are better than others becuase they are more "underground" are dumb. I especially respect anyone interested in idm, regardless of how knowlegeable they are, and would be glad to impart any info I could, rather than looking down upon them.

quoted 16 lines Fuck labels that are just trying to

> > >Fuck labels that are just trying to > > > make money or their only aim is to sell as many records as they can. Maybe > > > you should shell out $30 bucks and by a used turntable, cause you are > > > missing out on a hell of a lot of vinyl only releases from many labels that > > > are excellent, and judging from your list of c.d.'s you were selling you > > > have something to learn about techno and idm that is not so mainstream! > > > > alright, first off, the list of cds I was selling was for a friend,2ndly, > > if you took a look at James' sale list (Steady J guy), I think he would have > > "mainstream" stuff, some "worse" than I was selling, that you incorrectly > > assumed was mine and I'm sure he knows a great deal more > > about techno than you ever will, and can probably dj better than you. > > VERY VERY VERY VERY doubtful. like i said look before you leap. derek > knows his shit, dont just talk shit for no reason, outta anger, we dont > like that shit here

I don't care who Derek is, or how "undergound" he is, he was disrespectful, and doesn't appear to be a very nice human. Granted, I was angry, but I wasn't talking shit, I don't care what status Derek has in the world you inhabit, I simply put out a message as a joke, and he was mean.

quoted 8 lines But you're right, "moses", its a good thing to judge people based on

> > But you're right, "moses", its a good thing to judge people based on > > , well, nothing, and to make sweeping generalizations...(like I just did) > > you know nothing about me. I could possibly know more than you about > > your precious techno "underground". > > I have a turntable. > > unh unh. derek doesnt normally do this either, i think he has close ties > with rephlex. the man knows what he speaks.

can you clarify what you mean by this? He normaly isn't judgemental? Fine. Then I guess you are replying that he was so disrespectful becuase he "has ties with Rephlex" and couldn't take my joke?

quoted 10 lines Part of the fun of trainspotting is that this music is not always the

> > > Part of the fun of trainspotting is that this music is not always the > > > easiest to get, and therefore when you do find of real gem, it makes it all > > > worth it. > > > > agreed. but there comes a time when an artist becomes popular, and it > > seems only fair to meet the demand(look in your "economincs" books). > > there will still be plenty of "underground" stuff for trainspotters to > > look for. > > *buzzzzzzzz* wrong answer pal, you dont get it>

ok, so enlighten me. Furthermore, what happens when an artist becomes "mainstream" like RDJ? The record label should still release small quantities of thier stuff to satisfy only trainspotters? I don't think that's right, maybe you do. I would rather good music reaches everyone who wants it. There are still plenty of "non-mainstream" artists on small labels that you can hunt down, and older RDJ stuff.

quoted 11 lines If you are serious about this music you should be able to

> > >If you are serious about this music you should be able to > > >line up > > > a place to hook you up with the goods. Many stores have been mentioned > > > before. > > what does it take to be serious "dr. giggles"? please tell me o' wise one, > > becuase > > obviously, from your obnoxious, condescending post, you don't percieve me as > > serious. > > > > your post was a joke you fool, stop making a goddam ass of yourself!

sorry, I feel like this was unnecessary, but, I guess you were offended by my remarks about your little "underground". go back there.

quoted 1 line this is not a flame, i'm just telling you....you better step back!

> this is not a flame, i'm just telling you....you better step back!

fine. well, I felt it necessary to respond to you so I wouldn't look like the fool you claim I am. take care a.

On Tue, 2 Jul 1996, and-e wrote:

quoted 111 lines ok, I'll clarify.

> > > ok, I'll clarify. > > On Tue, 2 Jul 1996, jabberwalqee wrote: > > > > oh, I see, you can attempt to be funny, but I can't, that must be becuase > > > you are part of the "underground". > > you were funny, i laughed hard. he was funny, i laughed hard. i advise > > not to even step to derek, he is very underground and knows his shit > > better than anyon e except *maybe* teep. look before you leap kid > > oh, thanks. I have a mix Teep made, it has some "mainstream" stuff on > it, I wonder what Derek would think of this, maybe Derek is more > underground than Teep eh? > > > > >It is called economics. Rephlex has the right to print as > > > blah blah blah... I doubt this has anything to do with economics > > > > what in the world would make you say that? OF COURSE IT DOES > > what made me say this: if Rephlex is planning on releasing this > again later, fine, but if they are releasing only 1500 copies, prove to me > that it has only to do with economics. > > > > > many of them as they want big or small. Respect to labels like Rephlex who > > > > respect and preserve the Underground!! > > > huh? could you clarify this? what is the underground? how do I join? > > > dumb > well, I think people who think they are better than others becuase they > are more "underground" are dumb. I especially respect anyone interested > in idm, regardless of how knowlegeable they are, and would be glad to > impart any info I could, rather than looking down upon them. > > > > >Fuck labels that are just trying to > > > > make money or their only aim is to sell as many records as they can. Maybe > > > > you should shell out $30 bucks and by a used turntable, cause you are > > > > missing out on a hell of a lot of vinyl only releases from many labels that > > > > are excellent, and judging from your list of c.d.'s you were selling you > > > > have something to learn about techno and idm that is not so mainstream! > > > > > > alright, first off, the list of cds I was selling was for a friend,2ndly, > > > if you took a look at James' sale list (Steady J guy), I think he would have > > > "mainstream" stuff, some "worse" than I was selling, that you incorrectly > > > assumed was mine and I'm sure he knows a great deal more > > > about techno than you ever will, and can probably dj better than you. > > > > VERY VERY VERY VERY doubtful. like i said look before you leap. derek > > knows his shit, dont just talk shit for no reason, outta anger, we dont > > like that shit here > > I don't care who Derek is, or how "undergound" he is, > he was disrespectful, and doesn't appear to be a very nice human. > Granted, I was angry, but I wasn't talking shit, I don't care what status > Derek has in the world you inhabit, I simply put out a message as a joke, > and he was mean. > > > > But you're right, "moses", its a good thing to judge people based on > > > , well, nothing, and to make sweeping generalizations...(like I just did) > > > you know nothing about me. I could possibly know more than you about > > > your precious techno "underground". > > > I have a turntable. > > > > unh unh. derek doesnt normally do this either, i think he has close ties > > with rephlex. the man knows what he speaks. > > can you clarify what you mean by this? He normaly isn't judgemental? Fine. > Then I guess you are replying that he was so disrespectful becuase he > "has ties with Rephlex" and couldn't take my joke? > > > > > Part of the fun of trainspotting is that this music is not always the > > > > easiest to get, and therefore when you do find of real gem, it makes it all > > > > worth it. > > > > > > agreed. but there comes a time when an artist becomes popular, and it > > > seems only fair to meet the demand(look in your "economincs" books). > > > there will still be plenty of "underground" stuff for trainspotters to > > > look for. > > > > *buzzzzzzzz* wrong answer pal, you dont get it> > > ok, so enlighten me. > Furthermore, what happens when an artist becomes "mainstream" like > RDJ? The record label should still release small quantities of thier > stuff to satisfy only trainspotters? I don't think that's right, maybe > you do. I would rather good music reaches everyone who wants it. > There are still plenty of "non-mainstream" artists on small labels that you > can hunt down, and older RDJ stuff. > > > > >If you are serious about this music you should be able to > > > >line up > > > > a place to hook you up with the goods. Many stores have been mentioned > > > > before. > > > what does it take to be serious "dr. giggles"? please tell me o' wise one, > > > becuase > > > obviously, from your obnoxious, condescending post, you don't percieve me as > > > serious. > > > > > > > your post was a joke you fool, stop making a goddam ass of yourself! > > sorry, I feel like this was unnecessary, but, I guess you were offended > by my remarks about your little "underground". go back there. > > > this is not a flame, i'm just telling you....you better step back! > fine. well, I felt it necessary to respond to you so I wouldn't look like > the fool you claim I am. > take care > a. >

If you don't like the way Rephlex runs there opperations, I suggest you stop your bickering and lay off. It is people like you who make Grant and Rich want to make a Ltd. release. Why don't you be thankful with what you have that Rephlex has released.

oy. thatw as supposed to be personal. apologies. j

where's Grant's response?? This should be a real corker!!!!! James Benjamin Gill-----jgill@u.arizona.edu**********************************

quoted 2 lines Ohh! Poor guy! It is called economics. Rephlex has the right to print as

>Ohh! Poor guy! It is called economics. Rephlex has the right to print as >many of them as they want big or small.

Yes they have that right, and they don't commit a *crime* by printing a low number of them like some people on the list make this sound like. But on the other hand, releasing limited editions gives you the notion of a label that A) wants to be uncommercial, indie, and underground, and B) wants people to listen to their music. I would prefer a label that really puts the music in the first place and disposes of limited editions and coloured vinyl-releases. I think this Caustic Window limitation is RDJ's idea. I think he does it not to be cool, but to show people that he doesn't do it for the money. That is a good thing, but he does it in a wrong way. He could do it by making an ultra-commercial album and then give away all profits to charity, or, as the KLF did one and a half year ago, pile up the money and burn it. However, if you want to fight injustice in the world, limited editions is not the best target. Join Amnesty or something instead.

quoted 2 lines Respect to labels like Rephlex who

>Respect to labels like Rephlex who >respect and preserve the Underground!!

If respecting the underground means that you have to ask usual, overground people to piss off, then I'd rather not.

quoted 2 lines Fuck labels that are just trying to

>Fuck labels that are just trying to >make money or their only aim is to sell as many records as they can.

You're right. But isn't Warp a good example of a label that don't make limied editions and still can exist as a pretty "uncommercial" label?

quoted 5 lines Maybe

>Maybe >you should shell out $30 bucks and by a used turntable, cause you are >missing out on a hell of a lot of vinyl only releases from many labels that >are excellent, and judging from your list of c.d.'s you were selling you >have something to learn about techno and idm that is not so mainstream!

Don't know what he was selling but if it was "bad" stuff then it proves only that his musical taste is getting more IDM.

quoted 3 lines Part of the fun of trainspotting is that this music is not always the

>Part of the fun of trainspotting is that this music is not always the >easiest to get, and therefore when you do find of real gem, it makes it all >worth it.

I know what you mean -- but you forget what the music sounds like. This could be another reason for the limitation of the new Caustic Window. If the album really sucks then most people don't get to know that if the record is limited. And those who own it will not care what the music sounds like -- they will be happy to have the record anyway. Let me just once more mention that Rephlex said that there will be an unlimited CD release of Caustic Window later on. If that really is the case, then having the vinyl on limited edition or not doesn't really matter. Limited editions and stuff don't hurt anyone if it emphasizes on a cool packaging, coloured vinyl etc. rather than on the music. +---------------------------- Johan Jaatinen ----------------------------+ | | | MU WILL RISE AGAIN | | | +----- enigmatically posting as Anika Agebjoern <AniAg@Info.LiU.se> -----+

At 5:59 AM 7/2/96, Anika Agebjoern wrote:

quoted 3 lines I would prefer a label that really

>I would prefer a label that really >puts the music in the first place and disposes of limited editions and >coloured vinyl-releases.

you people just don't get it, do you. our opinions, as "representatives of the IDM contigent" are totally irrelevant! we are a tiny blip on the screen, a drop in the bucket. if a label wants to stay in business it MUST do something to attract the casual consumer/Dj's attention, and if that means funky colored vinyl in a transparent bag, with a big "limited edition of 3 billion" then that is what they will do. get over yourselves already folks. you don't count. /j/ I used to be with it, but then they changed what "it" was. Now, what I'm with isn't it, and what's "it" seems weird and scary to me. It'll happen to you!