IDM Mailing Archive

I've seen several glowing reviews, but I'm jaded, and a lot of the time reviews read better than the record sounds. ("Hard" stuff not hard as I imagine, "weird" stuff relatively conventional compared to much of the far undergound I'm used to, etc...) Yet the prospect of a truly sublime jungle record, or heavily jungle-influenced music, is a most appealing idea. I've flipped through a few jungle comps. Only track that really set my mind spinning was by Area 39 (?), and I've yet to locate any other tracks on 12"/comps. Major reservation about delving into Goldie is the reviews suggest it is very much a pop record. What I liked about the Area 39 track (on _King of the Jungle_ I believe) was the alien atmosphere. Take that away and I'm afraid it would amount to hyper-rhythmic pop mush. Is this anything like the way, say, Soul II Soul relates to house and techno? Please warn, advise, recommend...

On Sun, 1 Oct 1995, Mark Kolmar wrote:

quoted 5 lines Major reservation about delving into Goldie is the reviews suggest it is

> Major reservation about delving into Goldie is the reviews suggest it is > very much a pop record. What I liked about the Area 39 track (on _King > of the Jungle_ I believe) was the alien atmosphere. Take that away and > I'm afraid it would amount to hyper-rhythmic pop mush. Is this anything > like the way, say, Soul II Soul relates to house and techno?

I don't know - you seem to be looking for something specific in your jungle and I don't know whether this is a good thing or not - don't you like to be surprised? What I would say is that you won't be disappointed with the Goldie LP - I've only heard a bit of it and I was impressed. I'd read the hype and, for the most part, I didn't beleive it. But listening to the LP, I was surprised, enraptured, and entertained - its a *good* LP, maybe not as good as the reviews make out, but equally it's a hell of a lot better than the sheer quantity of overhype suggests. But if you're looking for an 'alien atmosphere' you might want to look elsewhere. This is music from the street, for the street - but it manages to touch on all influences along the way. I think you'll like it, but give it a chance. || [CiM] || s.walley@uea.ac.uk || http://www.sys.uea.ac.uk/~u9323899/

On Sun, 1 Oct 1995, Mark Kolmar wrote:

quoted 4 lines I've seen several glowing reviews, but I'm jaded, and a lot of the time

> I've seen several glowing reviews, but I'm jaded, and a lot of the time > reviews read better than the record sounds. ("Hard" stuff not hard as I > imagine, "weird" stuff relatively conventional compared to much of the > far undergound I'm used to, etc...)

The singing makes me ill in spots...

quoted 1 line Please warn, advise, recommend...

> Please warn, advise, recommend...

The best comp I've heard is "Intelligent DrumNBass" on Strictly Underground. The cover art is absolutely cheezy, the disc features a rave promo on the last track, but otherwise the comp is very solid. There's only one track that I find weak. Buy it if you see it (and don't get sick looking at the cover). Chill Che

Mark Kolmar writes:

quoted 5 lines Major reservation about delving into Goldie is the reviews suggest it is

>Major reservation about delving into Goldie is the reviews suggest it is >very much a pop record. What I liked about the Area 39 track (on _King >of the Jungle_ I believe) was the alien atmosphere. Take that away and >I'm afraid it would amount to hyper-rhythmic pop mush. Is this anything >like the way, say, Soul II Soul relates to house and techno?

To me, the Goldie record sounds like something the FSOL of old (when they were still into melodies) would make. It's got influences from ambient, soul, trip hop and jungle. The jungle bit is basically just one of many ingredients. The record definitely sounds more IDM than it sounds 'jungle'. While most jungle records sound like they were recorded very quickly using a 4-channel portabel studio, the Goldie album has Pink Floyd-ish proportions. - chris@minsk.docs.uu.se <http://www.update.uu.se/~chris/>

Goldie is enamored of 70's commercial soul, which comes through loud and clear. If you hate 70's soul music (emotive vocals, lush jazz-influenced chord progressions) then run away at top speed. B U T smoke on this: The mainstream of this kind of music has been stuck for years at the same spot. Michael & Janet, Mariah and Babyface, even the Purple Gnome in Lifts. The closest they come to updating the sound is to use hip-hop loops that self respecting hip hop producers discarded years ago. What Goldie & a Guy Called Gerald have done is taken that style of music into the next century. You don't have to like it, but if you understand it in that context you can have some respect for it. My favorite Jungle Comp (the only one that I didn't sell back in disgust) is Jungle Tekno 4 (Jumping & Pumping' CD TOT15). It contains a track by Area 39 (Attitude), and a bunch of stuff by people I've never heard of. Most of the cuts might fit the oxymoron Ambient Jungle. Drums & Bass workouts with odd bits of business floating in and out. If 'King of the Jungle' is the Mark Gage continuous mix, then I liked that OK (listened to the promo and didn't buy it.) I thought the Orbital 'Are We Here' mix on it was brilliant. The 'Artcore' compilation has it's fans as well, but I think I was buying Juan Atkins disks the month that was in the local shop. Luke Vibert's jungle tracks (the Plug Series) are pretty good. A few tracks on the Omni Trio's long player (called, regrettably, 'Music for the Next Milleneum'; damn that DJ DB!) are top drawer, but I wouldn't recommend buying it without listening to it. I positively love the 4Hero album "Parallel Universe" (Selector/Reinforced SEL3). It does feature some live singing (ala Guy Called Gerald & Goldie) but in moderation. It's an album that actually has some emotional impact for me. Not the usual reaction I have to Jungle -- to twitch uncontrollable. I frankly think that it would be difficult to listen to a lot of jungle without a break. Going to a jungle party would be a recipe for a splitting headache. Use it as a spice, not a main course! -- kent.williams@cadsi.com [Kent Williams/CADSI/2651 Crosspark Rd/Coralville IA 52241/(319)626-6700] "It is a good world, generally (and especially when you totally ignore detail)." --Darwin Grosse, who did NOT invent Eckankar.

On Oct 2, 3:06pm, Christian Bartholdsson wrote:

quoted 9 lines Subject: Re: Goldie / jungle

> Subject: Re: Goldie / jungle > Kent Williams writes: > > >I frankly think that it would be difficult to listen to a lot of jungle > >without a break. Going to a jungle party would be a recipe for a splitting > >headache. > > You're just too old. ;-) >

What's your point? I am old! But I will get a pacemaker fitted soon with Roland DIN Sync, so my heart can follow an 808 ... Then I'm going to fit my electric wheelchair with CV/Gate inputs, so it will dance along with a TB303 ... Actually, everyone around here I've talked to has had the same feeling after going to Jungle parties. The plain fact is that most of what Jungle DJs spin sounds pretty samey. The same can be said about House or Detroit techno, but most of that stuff comes out below 130bpm, with a simpler beat pattern. Easier to trance out to. Jungle is just so twitchy. It's one thing to appreciate it as listening music, a rhythmic a change of pace, and another entirely to do nothing but listen to jungle all night. What I'm still waiting for is someone to come out the Jungle/Drums&Bass culture (which is quite separate from techno & idm) to produce a long player that's original, interesting, varied, and holds my interest for a solid hour. The stuff that Orbital, Luke Vibert, and Aphex Twin are doing is fun, but to some extent it strikes me as dabbling in the form, rather than working it from the inside out. The closest thing to a really original, varied and engaging Jungle long player is 4Hero's 'Parallel Universe.' Ask for it by name! Track 7 "Terraforming" is sublime. "We can go and terraform Mars ... we all sense that it's quite tragic to have to go and terraform Mars when we could stay here and try to terraform Earth." [which I believe is William Gibson speaking, but I'm not sure.] -- kent.williams@cadsi.com [Kent Williams/CADSI/2651 Crosspark Rd/Coralville IA 52241/(319)626-6700] "It is a good world, generally (and especially when you totally ignore detail)." --Darwin Grosse, who did NOT invent Eckankar.

quoted 3 lines What I'm still waiting for is someone to come out the Jungle/Drums&Bass culture

>What I'm still waiting for is someone to come out the Jungle/Drums&Bass culture >(which is quite separate from techno & idm) to produce a long player >that's original, interesting, varied, and holds my interest for a solid hour.

I would say that the Spring Heel Jack album 'There Are Strings' is what you're looking for, except that it seems that SHJ isn't part of the Jungle/D&B culture, even though as far as I know they don't work in any other styles. The junglists I've talked to generally haven't heard of them, which could have something to do with the fact that SHJ don't seem to subscribe to the whole "Jungle is the new soundtrack of the British urban landscape, and it's ever so *important*" mindset. I think they're great though - some of their tracks hit me in some of the same places as Mouse on Mars, or Jake Slazenger - they sometimes use some very nice "wacky" sounds. One track ("Day of the Dead") sounds to me like they've been listening to at least a little Depth Charge. Their album holds my interest much better than 'Parallel Universe,' which gets very samey for me; by the end of the second half I'll get impatient with 4 Hero. C. -- cspot@hyperreal.com (Chris.Hilker) "I feel like I'm being electrocuted."

Kent Williams writes:

quoted 8 lines I frankly think that it would be difficult to listen to a lot of jungle

>> >I frankly think that it would be difficult to listen to a lot of jungle >> >without a break. Going to a jungle party would be a recipe for a splitting >> >headache. >> >> You're just too old. ;-) >> > >What's your point? I am old!

I was just teasing you...

quoted 7 lines Actually, everyone around here I've talked to has had the same feeling after

>Actually, everyone around here I've talked to has had the same feeling after >going to Jungle parties. The plain fact is that most of what Jungle DJs >spin sounds pretty samey. The same can be said about House or Detroit techno, >but most of that stuff comes out below 130bpm, with a simpler beat pattern. >Easier to trance out to. Jungle is just so twitchy. It's one thing to >appreciate it as listening music, a rhythmic a change of pace, and another >entirely to do nothing but listen to jungle all night.

I have absolutely no problem with dancing to jungle the whole night through. Actually, I find it much easier to stand a whole night of good varied breakbeat than 8 hours of one pounding kick drum. Jungle is not meant to be listening music. The only place where it does itself justice is on the dancefloor, assisted by a huge sound system. Anywhere else it just falls flat. - chris@minsk.docs.uu.se <http://www.update.uu.se/~chris/>

quoted 2 lines Actually, I find it much easier to stand a whole night of good varied

> Actually, I find it much easier to stand a whole night of good varied > breakbeat than 8 hours of one pounding kick drum.

Agreed, it's good to have some intricate and mutating breakbeats as a diversion/alternative to the 4/4 kick, but I wouldn't want to have breakbeats *all night* - there's loads and loads of good house and techno which is much easier to dance to...

quoted 1 line Jungle is not meant to be listening music.

> Jungle is not meant to be listening music.

You can't generalise all jungle like this. There's loads of jungle which is made to be listened to, or chill out to. Also, a lot of the jungle which *is* danced to stands up better than 'dance-oriented' techno for home listening, mainly because of the constant variation, and (sorry) intelligence in the drum programming...

quoted 3 lines The only place where it does itself justice is on the dancefloor, assisted by

> The only place where it does itself justice is on the dancefloor, assisted by > a huge sound system. Anywhere else it just falls flat. > - chris@minsk.docs.uu.se <http://www.update.uu.se/~chris/>

I definitely disagree. I've got so many jungle records which I'd rather listen to properly than dance to. Lots of jungle *is* made for the dancefloor, but there is a lot of range in the genre. I wouldn't say that jungle as a whole is any more 'dancefloor-oriented' than techno as a whole... see ya _________________________________________________ tom churchill e-mail: tom@chrchfam.demon.co.uk electronic musician/dj _________________________________________________

Tom Churchill writes:

quoted 4 lines Agreed, it's good to have some intricate and mutating breakbeats as a

> Agreed, it's good to have some intricate and mutating breakbeats as a >diversion/alternative to the 4/4 kick, but I wouldn't want to have breakbeats >*all night* - there's loads and loads of good house and techno which is much >easier to dance to...

Yeah, house and techno are for wimps. (joke, alright?)

quoted 7 lines Jungle is not meant to be listening music.

>> Jungle is not meant to be listening music. > > You can't generalise all jungle like this. There's loads of jungle which is >made to be listened to, or chill out to. Also, a lot of the jungle which *is* >danced to stands up better than 'dance-oriented' techno for home listening, >mainly because of the constant variation, and (sorry) intelligence in the drum >programming...

Well, to me jungle is about the drum and the bass and sub bass frequencies just don't translate very well on home equipment. Of course I know there's a lot of "jungle" that's more or less listening music, but there's the old war of definitions. Is Namlook "techno"? Is Goldie "jungle"? When you move so far away from the original idea that it becomes something else... (no need to go deeper into that) - chris@minsk.docs.uu.se