IDM Mailing Archive

Microsoft's adverts for e-commerce and the like w/ that little dnb ditty.. man... that jingle just owns. That's all. - wells oliver / s0ewoliv@vcu.edu " The ball is round. The game lasts ninety minutes. This much is fact. Everything else is just theory. " --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Sun, 16 Jan 2000, wells wrote:

quoted 2 lines Microsoft's adverts for e-commerce and the like w/ that little dnb

> Microsoft's adverts for e-commerce and the like w/ that little dnb > ditty.. man... that jingle just owns.

umm, i agree. i didn't want to say anything because i didn't want anyone to know i was actually paying attention to microsoft commercials. * #### a disturbance in a system. #### laerm. @voicenet.com ##:# if you ever get close to a human/and human behaviour/be ready to get confused/there's definitely no logic/to human behaviour icq 5562209 but yet so irresistible --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Sun, 16 Jan 2000, laerm wrote:

quoted 5 lines Microsoft's adverts for e-commerce and the like w/ that little dnb

> > Microsoft's adverts for e-commerce and the like w/ that little dnb > > ditty.. man... that jingle just owns. > > umm, i agree. i didn't want to say anything because i didn't want anyone > to know i was actually paying attention to microsoft commercials.

Word. First time I heard it, I was reading (I usually have a book or something to read during the commericals if I'm watching the tube) and the jingle caught my ear, so I looked up to see what it was for. When I saw that it was Microsoft, I felt icky. But I still dig the tune. :) Greg -- Greg Clow - greg@stainedproductions.com - http://www.stainedproductions.com feedback monitor - electronic & experimental radio/reviews/interviews http://www.stainedproductions.com/feedback/ 158 Close Ave. 2nd Floor - Toronto, Ontario M6K 2V5 - Canada --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Greg Clow wrote:

quoted 12 lines On Sun, 16 Jan 2000, laerm wrote:

> On Sun, 16 Jan 2000, laerm wrote: > >>> Microsoft's adverts for e-commerce and the like w/ that little dnb >>> ditty.. man... that jingle just owns. >> >> umm, i agree. i didn't want to say anything because i didn't want anyone >> to know i was actually paying attention to microsoft commercials. > > Word. First time I heard it, I was reading (I usually have a book or > something to read during the commericals if I'm watching the tube) and the > jingle caught my ear, so I looked up to see what it was for. When I saw > that it was Microsoft, I felt icky. But I still dig the tune. :)

Just curious, (and pardon me if it has been dicussed before) what do people on this list think of the music for the Qualcomm ads, particularly the one with the pencil? -- JohnT/CountV "Cunnilingus and psychiatry brought us to this." - Tony Soprano Design by Coercion - New Years update, with image manipulation section; http://www.m-ideas.com/coercion/index.htm --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 7 lines -----Original Message-----

>-----Original Message----- >From: John Thelin [mailto:teaflax@erols.com] > >Just curious, (and pardon me if it has been dicussed before) what do people >on this list think of the music for the Qualcomm ads, particularly the one >with the pencil? >

Wait, isn't that Tortoise? Or am I thinking of another ad? --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Danny Wyatt wrote:

quoted 6 lines -----Original Message-----

>> -----Original Message----- >> From: John Thelin [mailto:teaflax@erols.com] >> >> Just curious, (and pardon me if it has been dicussed before) what do people >> on this list think of the music for the Qualcomm ads, particularly the one >> with the pencil?

quoted 1 line Wait, isn't that Tortoise? Or am I thinking of another ad?

> Wait, isn't that Tortoise? Or am I thinking of another ad?

The one with the pencil is Grand Nip's "Nip", available on the first RUC compilation CD "Monolithic Minds" - don't know about the others, though. -- JohnT/CountV "Cunnilingus and psychiatry brought us to this." - Tony Soprano Design by Coercion - New Years update, with image manipulation section; http://www.m-ideas.com/coercion/index.htm --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Sun, 16 Jan 2000 23:39:41 -0500, John Thelin <teaflax@erols.com> said:

quoted 20 lines Greg Clow wrote:

>Greg Clow wrote: > >> On Sun, 16 Jan 2000, laerm wrote: >> >>>> Microsoft's adverts for e-commerce and the like w/ that little dnb >>>> ditty.. man... that jingle just owns. >>> >>> umm, i agree. i didn't want to say anything because i didn't want anyone >>> to know i was actually paying attention to microsoft commercials. >> >> Word. First time I heard it, I was reading (I usually have a book or >> something to read during the commericals if I'm watching the tube) and the >> jingle caught my ear, so I looked up to see what it was for. When I saw >> that it was Microsoft, I felt icky. But I still dig the tune. :) > >Just curious, (and pardon me if it has been dicussed before) what do people >on this list think of the music for the Qualcomm ads, particularly the one >with the pencil? > >--

personally, i think it's cool that some innovative tunes are seeping into our TV commercial IV drip, whether it's for a company we'll all admit we admire or one that we think is generally perceived as the antichrist whose jingle sounds like the theme from "schprockets". i even thought the GAP commercial which x-faded vanilla ice into "sleighride together with you" was pretty chill. but, the commercial ditty which is really pumpin my veins lately is the newer VW ad, with the yellow beetles in a flower pattern. wicked, high BPM proto-dolphin d&b, almost sounds like hrvatski on prozac. any spotters got coordinates on that one? peeeeece, NP : aril brihka: deeeeeeeparture in time (smooth like buttah') -- Jeff Davis pHlow@earthlink.net fn:216.533.6303 fx:216.266.2310 text:2165336303@mobile.att.net pHlow.linx: home.earthlink.net/~phlow/ Bochum Welt: www.bochumwelt.com Rotator Locator: hyperreal.org/music/rotator/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Jeff Davis <pHlow> wrote:

quoted 6 lines personally, i think it's cool that some innovative tunes are seeping into

> personally, i think it's cool that some innovative tunes are seeping into > our TV commercial IV drip, whether it's for a company we'll all admit we > admire or one that we think is generally perceived as the antichrist whose > jingle sounds like the theme from "schprockets". i even thought the GAP > commercial which x-faded vanilla ice into "sleighride together with you" > was pretty chill.

I think it points very much to the fact that people who work at ad agencies are more aware of what is going on in music than the 'average' consumer. The strict formatting of American radio doesn't make it very likely that anything even remotely adventurous will enter people's consciousness that way. Now, if the artists featured in the ads had enough clout to demand that there be a track/title listing in the ad's fine print, I think we'd see some of them increase sales substantially. -- JohnT/CountV "Cunnilingus and psychiatry brought us to this." - Tony Soprano Design by Coercion - New Years update, with image manipulation section; http://www.m-ideas.com/coercion/index.htm --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Tue, 18 Jan 2000, Jeff Davis <pHlow> wrote: } but, the commercial ditty which is really pumpin my veins lately is the } newer VW ad, with the yellow beetles in a flower pattern. wicked, high BPM } proto-dolphin d&b, almost sounds like hrvatski on prozac. } } any spotters got coordinates on that one? It's Ben Neill's Turbonium...I've never heard of him, but that doesn't mean much...VW sez he's worked with Cage, Moog, and DJ Spooky. Check out http://www.vw.com/commercials/ & http://www.turbonium.com/ & maybe even http://mercurious.com/ben-neill/. Jeremy np: Monolake: Gobi. The Desert EP --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On 18 Jan 00, Jeremy Bratton wrote re: (idm) Woah. VW. [was Re: (idm) Dude:

quoted 1 line Ben Neill's Turbonium...I've never heard of him,

> Ben Neill's Turbonium...I've never heard of him,

He's a trumpeter. Released 'Green Machine' on Astralwerks some years ago (94/5) - sort of nod your head noodly (IMO) but I've heard some other more alive tracks off various comps and his newer work (I think a double CD was released last year) is paced a little faster than the earlier more ambient leanings. I * np : Californication, Red Hots --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 1 line Wait, isn't that Tortoise? Or am I thinking of another ad?

> Wait, isn't that Tortoise? Or am I thinking of another ad?

I swore I heard The Sea and Cake, but someone told me it was Jim O'Rourke's Eureaka. I keep waiting for someone who is into O'Rourke's old stuff to buy it, hate it and sell it to the used cd store near me, but dammit, no one has! If anyone has a copy they want to get rid of, email me and I'd be happy to take it off your hands. Cheers, Nirav -- "Don't try to make me consistent. I am learning all the time." - R. Buckminster Fuller --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

One of those Qualcomm ads uses the opening to a Stereolab track from Emperor Tomato Ketchup. Jeff Jeff Barszcz ________________________ glueslabs@earthlink.net ICQ: 59895018 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 6 lines Microsoft's adverts for e-commerce and the like w/ that little dnb

> > > Microsoft's adverts for e-commerce and the like w/ that little dnb > > > ditty.. man... that jingle just owns. > > > > umm, i agree. i didn't want to say anything because i > didn't want anyone > > to know i was actually paying attention to microsoft commercials.

Gotta tell you, although Microsoft's advertising style (graphics and sounds) may not be a stylish as, say, Apple (and even that is very arguable), in the long run when it inevitably comes down to choosing between MS's "David Carson/Drum&Bass/Seattle Hipster" aesthetic and AOL/Time Warner's "Parade Magazine/Reader's Digest/Kenny G" aesthetic, I know where I'll stand. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

on 1/17/00 11:28 AM, idm-digest-help@hyperreal.org at idm-digest-help@hyperreal.org wrote:

quoted 5 lines Gotta tell you, although Microsoft's advertising style (graphics and sounds)

> Gotta tell you, although Microsoft's advertising style (graphics and sounds) > may not be a stylish as, say, Apple (and even that is very arguable), in the > long run when it inevitably comes down to choosing between MS's "David > Carson/Drum&Bass/Seattle Hipster" aesthetic and AOL/Time Warner's "Parade > Magazine/Reader's Digest/Kenny G" aesthetic, I know where I'll stand.

what. with the one that commodifies the underground the best? plus parade magazine has an excellent crossword puzzle;). marie on now: köhn/wio split: lullabies (kra-a-k) http://www.urbansounds.com electronic music and beyond... --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 2 lines Microsoft's adverts for e-commerce and the like w/ that little dnb

> Microsoft's adverts for e-commerce and the like w/ that little dnb > ditty.. man... that jingle just owns.

It's cool that our kind of music is finally making it's way into some american homes in a big way but it's really sad that it took MICROSOFT and other adverts to do it. I guess it all started with the Little Fluffy VW ads and it's gone downhill from there. steve. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 4 lines personally, i think it's cool that some innovative tunes

> personally, i think it's cool that some innovative tunes > are seeping into our TV commercial IV drip, whether it's > for a company we'll all admit we admire or one that we > think is generally perceived as the antichrist

<snip>

quoted 3 lines I think it points very much to the fact that people who work

> I think it points very much to the fact that people who work > at ad agencies are more aware of what is going on in music > than the 'average' consumer.

I think think people at the ad agencies know anything about music. I think they just pick something that sounds strange and go with it, or their friends tell them what to use. I think the old trend was (and sort of still is) to use popular songs that *everyone* knows and can identify with. But some companies (Microsoft) are trying to use music that they think *nobody* knows as a way to make themselves look like they are on the forefront of technology. Either that or the fact that d'nb, dance music, etc. sounds like what some of my friends call *computer music* and being a computer company . . . steve. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 1 line I think think people at the ad agencies know anything about music. I

> I think think people at the ad agencies know anything about music. I

think

quoted 4 lines they just pick something that sounds strange and go with it, or their

> they just pick something that sounds strange and go with it, or their > friends tell them what to use. > > I think the old trend was (and sort of still is) to use popular songs

that

quoted 1 line *everyone* knows and can identify with. But some companies (Microsoft)

> *everyone* knows and can identify with. But some companies (Microsoft)

are

quoted 2 lines trying to use music that they think *nobody* knows as a way to make

> trying to use music that they think *nobody* knows as a way to make > themselves look like they are on the forefront of technology. Either

that

quoted 1 line or the fact that d'nb, dance music, etc. sounds like what some of my

> or the fact that d'nb, dance music, etc. sounds like what some of my

friends

quoted 1 line call *computer music* and being a computer company . . .

> call *computer music* and being a computer company . . .

actually i dont believe this to be true. ive spent the better part of my professional life working in creative departments at ad agencies and the people that work there are often more 'hip' to this sort of shit. these are the people that decide what music to put in the commercials...of course the client companies have to approve the tracks but thats not so hard when its explained that theyre using some next level shit (or whateveR) to promote their product..which in the case of technology companies and car companies and the such..is right in keeping with what theyre trying to get across. but the client company really has very little to do with what gets chosen. check it out. most of the time all i heard in the creative department was dnb and techno..and not that cheeze ass shit either. you just tend to add what youre listening to because its whats bouncing around in your head. um. i dont really have a point. im just bored. cya. pants. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Luckabaugh, Steve wrote:

quoted 7 lines I think it points very much to the fact that people who work

>> I think it points very much to the fact that people who work >> at ad agencies are more aware of what is going on in music >> than the 'average' consumer. > > I think think people at the ad agencies know anything about music. I think > they just pick something that sounds strange and go with it, or their > friends tell them what to use.

Their friends? But if they hang out with people who listen to more adventurous music, wouldn't they almost by default be those kinds of people themselves? I don't know how the ad agency situation is in the US, but back in my homeland of Sweden, I can assure you that ad agency folks have their ear much closer to the ground than most people. In fact, I think I've probably heard more d'n'b at ad agencies than in clubs.

quoted 7 lines I think the old trend was (and sort of still is) to use popular songs that

> > I think the old trend was (and sort of still is) to use popular songs that > *everyone* knows and can identify with. But some companies (Microsoft) are > trying to use music that they think *nobody* knows as a way to make > themselves look like they are on the forefront of technology. Either that > or the fact that d'nb, dance music, etc. sounds like what some of my friends > call *computer music* and being a computer company . . .

What about all the auto ads that use various IDM-esque stuff, from the Propellerheads in the Jaguar ads to more obscure stuff in various Nissan and Oldsmobile ads? I dont think you can argue that it's only computer (or even dot.com) companies that use more modern music these days. -- JohnT/CountV "Cunnilingus and psychiatry brought us to this." - Tony Soprano Design by Coercion - New Years update, with image manipulation section; http://www.m-ideas.com/coercion/index.htm --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

"Luckabaugh, Steve" wrote:

quoted 5 lines But some companies (Microsoft) are

> But some companies (Microsoft) are > trying to use music that they think *nobody* knows as a way to make > themselves look like they are on the forefront of technology. Either that > or the fact that d'nb, dance music, etc. sounds like what some of my friends > call *computer music* and being a computer company . . .

Or freaks like us rip the tracks and send them to our friends working for those companies in the hopes that our friends might like them. Some do, and happen to be in a position to make it go out on a large-scale advert. An architect friend of mine doing visualization liked the Speedy J I hooked him up with so much that he took a chance and used it in a presentation to his boss. His boss thought it fit, and the next thing you know, a few hundred people at a hotel groundbreaking 1000 miles away are going, "hmm...nice!" to Speedy J's "The FUN Equations." Six degrees of a butterfly farting in Manilla... laz --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I think that you also have to remember that 20-somethings are hitting the corporate scene in a big way right now. I know several people who are into electronic music that work at Ad agencies(forgive them lord, for they know not what they do,) and a very large percentage of my friends have creative computer jobs. Like it or not, these people are sneaking their influences and interests into their jobs. I think the older suits are smart enough to realize that these young kids have a better idea of what will appeal to a younger consumer demographic group. Let face it, advertising is all about sex and youth. Take care, Mike Taylor Luckabaugh, Steve wrote:

quoted 28 lines personally, i think it's cool that some innovative tunes

> > > personally, i think it's cool that some innovative tunes > > are seeping into our TV commercial IV drip, whether it's > > for a company we'll all admit we admire or one that we > > think is generally perceived as the antichrist > > <snip> > > > I think it points very much to the fact that people who work > > at ad agencies are more aware of what is going on in music > > than the 'average' consumer. > > I think think people at the ad agencies know anything about music. I think > they just pick something that sounds strange and go with it, or their > friends tell them what to use. > > I think the old trend was (and sort of still is) to use popular songs that > *everyone* knows and can identify with. But some companies (Microsoft) are > trying to use music that they think *nobody* knows as a way to make > themselves look like they are on the forefront of technology. Either that > or the fact that d'nb, dance music, etc. sounds like what some of my friends > call *computer music* and being a computer company . . . > > steve. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

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quoted 5 lines Either that

> Either that > or the fact that d'nb, dance music, etc. sounds like what > some of my friends > call *computer music* and being a computer company . . . >

tee hee hee ... so naive * Has it occurred to you that drum and bass is a totally mainstream musical form right now and that it's hardly obscure or underground at all, especially to people who make ads? * Has it occurred to you that many drum and bass musicians make most of their living off of selling their music to advertisers? * Has it occurred to you that people who make ads might in fact be cooler than you think? Yes, for every IDM fan working in the advertising world there are probably 100 people whose idea of what's good music is based exclusively on what's in the Billboard top 40. But those people don't make Microsoft and VW ads - they work for Proctor and Gamble, AOL, and the WB. I would bet that of the working adults on the IDM list (the few of us that there are) there are probably a disproportionally large number of people working for the advertising industry, major or major-indie label record industry, or some kind of mainstream media company. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 2 lines * Has it occurred to you that drum and bass is a totally

> * Has it occurred to you that drum and bass is a totally > mainstream musical form right now

In the UK, yes, maybe but in american NO! I don't hear it ANYWHERE on the radio (meaning normal big commercial radio not college radio) so it's not *mainstream*. I don't see a Plug CD or a Wagon Christ CD next to Rickie Martin in stores.

quoted 2 lines * Has it occurred to you that many drum and bass musicians

> * Has it occurred to you that many drum and bass musicians > make most of their living off of selling their music to advertisers?

Really? Most d'nb musicians? why are there so few adds featuring it if it's so widely sold? This doesn't make sense. Where do you get your information?

quoted 2 lines * Has it occurred to you that people who make ads might in

> * Has it occurred to you that people who make ads might in > fact be cooler than you think?

Considering the fact that many adverts on the tele are very stupid, yes this would surprise me.

quoted 3 lines Yes, for every IDM fan working in the advertising world

> Yes, for every IDM fan working in the advertising world > there are probably 100 people whose idea of what's good > music is based exclusively on what's in the Billboard top 40.

YES, exactly my point. Yes good music pops up every now and again on some adverts but you've got to admit that it's few and far between. steve. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 5 lines * Has it occurred to you that people who make ads might in

> > * Has it occurred to you that people who make ads might in > > fact be cooler than you think? > > Considering the fact that many adverts on the tele are very stupid, yes this > would surprise me.

actually...the reasons why most adverts revert to crappy music is more likely because someone on the account end of things at the agency got frightened about presenting something not so 'universally' acceptable or the client got cold feet about the same. things almost always start out super duper fucking dope and get dumbed down by the aforementioned two parties until they are dull and uninteresting. in many cases at least. cya. mulenuts --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Cristian wrote:

quoted 7 lines actually...the reasons why most adverts revert to crappy music is more

> actually...the reasons why most adverts revert to crappy music is more > likely because someone on the account end of things at the agency got > frightened about presenting something not so 'universally' acceptable or > the client got cold feet about the same. things almost always start out > super duper fucking dope and get dumbed down by the aforementioned two > parties until they are dull and uninteresting. in many cases at least. > cya. mulenuts

It's what I've always said; "Design [or advertising] would be the best job in the world, if it wasn't for the clients having opinions of their own." -- JohnT/CountV "Cunnilingus and psychiatry brought us to this." - Tony Soprano Design by Coercion - New Years update, with image manipulation section; http://www.m-ideas.com/coercion/index.htm --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Luckabaugh, Steve wrote:

quoted 7 lines * Has it occurred to you that drum and bass is a totally

>> * Has it occurred to you that drum and bass is a totally >> mainstream musical form right now > > In the UK, yes, maybe but in american NO! I don't hear it ANYWHERE on the > radio (meaning normal big commercial radio not college radio) so it's not > *mainstream*. I don't see a Plug CD or a Wagon Christ CD next to Rickie > Martin in stores.

America is a musical wasteland. Back in Sweden, I didn't know a single person who liked The Rolling Stones, here it seems that everybody does, more or less. Admittedly, I sort of changed circles upon moving, from media-related to a bit less so, so I'm sure that's a factor, but it still doesn't explain the 100% discrepancy.

quoted 7 lines * Has it occurred to you that many drum and bass musicians

> >> * Has it occurred to you that many drum and bass musicians >> make most of their living off of selling their music to advertisers? > > Really? Most d'nb musicians? why are there so few adds featuring it if > it's so widely sold? This doesn't make sense. Where do you get your > information?

Again, I think that's a UK thing - but even here in the US, I think I hear four to five D'n'b or IDM-style background tunes per hour. Not all of it particularly good, but most of it better than just reusing or redoing Top 40 material and all of it far more interesting than anything heard on the radio. I'll try to keep score during prime time tonight by keeping the TV on while I work. -- JohnT/CountV "Cunnilingus and psychiatry brought us to this." - Tony Soprano Design by Coercion - New Years update, with image manipulation section; http://www.m-ideas.com/coercion/index.htm --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 6 lines * Has it occurred to you that many drum and bass musicians

> > * Has it occurred to you that many drum and bass musicians > > make most of their living off of selling their music to advertisers? > > Really? Most d'nb musicians? why are there so few adds featuring it if > it's so widely sold? This doesn't make sense. Where do you get your > information?

Well, "many" musicians making "most" of their money off ad rights is not unfeasible. I have it from a pretty infallible source that RykoDisc made 1 million dollars licensing a Galaxie 500 track to Acura. One. Million. Dollars. (He also said this was pretty funny because: When Rough Trade went under all their assests went to public auction. This included the rights to all the Galaxie 500 stuff. So, the former members of Galaxie 500 flew to England to bid. They were so unknown that the price never got above a few hundred dollars. Dean Wareham paid cash.) ObIdm: Anyone know how much Aphex got for those telecomm ads or whatever they were, for which he did special mixes? --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

How is something _pretty_ infallible? That's just what I want to know.. - wells oliver / s0ewoliv@vcu.edu " The ball is round. The game lasts ninety minutes. This much is fact. Everything else is just theory. "

quoted 10 lines -----Original Message-----

> -----Original Message----- > From: Danny Wyatt [mailto:danny@arbitrary.com] > Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 3:36 PM > To: Luckabaugh, Steve; Chris Fahey; 'IDM (E-mail)' > Subject: RE: (idm) Dude. Microsoft. > > Well, "many" musicians making "most" of their money off ad rights is not > unfeasible. I have it from a pretty infallible source that > RykoDisc made 1 > million dollars licensing a Galaxie 500 track to Acura.

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My bad. He was a quite the dashing fellow: I meant "prettily infallible." yours in moderate capability of error, Danny Wyatt

quoted 31 lines -----Original Message-----

>-----Original Message----- >From: wells [mailto:s0ewoliv@vcu.edu] >Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2000 1:26 AM >To: Danny Wyatt; Luckabaugh, Steve; Chris Fahey; 'IDM (E-mail)' >Subject: RE: (idm) Dude. Microsoft. > > >How is something _pretty_ infallible? > >That's just what I want to know.. > >- wells oliver / s0ewoliv@vcu.edu > " The ball is round. The game lasts ninety minutes. > This much is fact. Everything else is just theory. " > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Danny Wyatt [mailto:danny@arbitrary.com] >> Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 3:36 PM >> To: Luckabaugh, Steve; Chris Fahey; 'IDM (E-mail)' >> Subject: RE: (idm) Dude. Microsoft. >> >> Well, "many" musicians making "most" of their money off ad rights is not >> unfeasible. I have it from a pretty infallible source that >> RykoDisc made 1 >> million dollars licensing a Galaxie 500 track to Acura. > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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The VW Turbonium ads feature music by Ben Neill! CT

quoted 7 lines but, the commercial ditty which is really pumpin my veins lately is the

> >but, the commercial ditty which is really pumpin my veins lately is the >newer VW ad, with the yellow beetles in a flower pattern. wicked, high BPM >proto-dolphin d&b, almost sounds like hrvatski on prozac. > >any spotters got coordinates on that one? >

http://interlog.com/~costan/MNN.html Music News Network interview/review site http://1groovE.com Klublife magazine show (live Sundays 6-9pm EST & posted as streaming RA) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Tue, 18 Jan 2000 16:11:38 -0400, C Twomey <newpower@interlog.com> said:

quoted 5 lines The VW Turbonium ads feature music by Ben Neill!

>The VW Turbonium ads feature music by Ben Neill! > >CT > >

isn't he the guy with the tricked out high tech electronicly treated trumpet? np: stewart walker: process not substance peeeeeeece, -- Jeff Davis pHlow@earthlink.net fn:216.533.6303 fx:216.266.2310 text:2165336303@mobile.att.net pHlow.linx: home.earthlink.net/~phlow/ Bochum Welt: www.bochumwelt.com Rotator Locator: hyperreal.org/music/rotator/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

(Chris Fahey)

quoted 3 lines * Has it occurred to you that many drum and bass musicians

> > > * Has it occurred to you that many drum and bass musicians > > > make most of their living off of selling their music to > > > advertisers?

(Steve Luckabaugh)

quoted 4 lines Really? Most d'nb musicians? why are there so few adds

> > Really? Most d'nb musicians? why are there so few adds > > featuring it if > > it's so widely sold? This doesn't make sense. Where do > > you get your information?

(Danny Wyatt)

quoted 2 lines Well, "many" musicians making "most" of their money off ad

> Well, "many" musicians making "most" of their money off ad > rights is not unfeasible.

Which is of course what I said. Thank you for reading my exact wording carefully. The fact is that an artist (even worse, a band) can hardly make a decent living even if they sell 50,000 records, a number which essentially consititutes a fantastic runaway hit in the IDM world. On the other hand, the profits from one Mercedes-Benz ad can probably beat all of most artists' lifetime record sales combined. BUT WAIT: And yes, I know a lot of electronic musicians who do in fact make some money on the side doing advertising jingles, CD-ROM soundtracks, stock music work, etc. I wonder how many "famous" IDM artists do this work on the side. I wonder how many do this kind of work openly and how many keep it secret. I'm not talking about licensing their music for advertisements, I mean doing contracted work for hire. Anyoone know? HERE'S THE KICKER: I wonder if IDM itself is an art form whose parentage can at least partly be traced to the shadowy world of mullet-headed Keyboard Magazine-reading home studio advertising-jingle wonks. -Cf --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 5 lines I have it from a pretty infallible source that

> I have it from a pretty infallible source that > RykoDisc made 1 > million dollars licensing a Galaxie 500 track to Acura. > > One. Million. Dollars.

The real question is: did Galaxie 500 get any money at all for this? --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Forgive me...the debate has gotten too long to quote...but... It's easy to think of commercials and "mainstream" culture as simple and stupid, but how true can this possibly be? Sure, it's true that some jobs are more difficult than others or that some media might be more flooded with crap (or waste or bile or whatever word you prefer) than another; but does this mean that all commercials are crap? Is ALL television crap? No, it can't possibly be so...logic forbids it. There are SOME people making good commercials; there are some good television shows on the tube. If you don't believe it, sit down and watch an hour of television, thinking about the commercials. Pretend you had to make commercials for these companies...what would you have come up with? What REALLY makes their ideas so stupid and inane? Just like everything else, it's too easy to generalize about commercials (as the ultimate sell-out) and then generalize about the people who make those commercials (as the ultimate sell-outs) and pretend you're better. Life is far more complex than you give credit for when you make judgments like these, so think twice. There are some people who LIKE watching commercials? Talk about underground; talk about something so NOT mainstream...consider their perspective for a moment before you bash all commercial media. You think IDM is underground? Think about all those closet-cases that love watching commercials...you think they laugh at us because we're on the outside, clueless and lost in our own 'ordinary viewing habits'? Yes, some people don't know what they're doing with commercials. But yes, some people do. Yes, some artists make lots of money from commercials (remember that RDJ was one of the first to make use of this cash flow situation...way back when) But yes, some artists DON'T make lots of money this way. Think before you open your mouth and criticize everything at once. Cool things are cool because people have thought about them and figured out HOW and WHY they're cool...not because it's obvious to everyone how and why they're cool. ---brian -- Save the whales. Collect the whole set. Trade them with your friends. Brian Gause Technical Writer Applications Division Oracle Corporation (650) 506-1311 bgause@us.oracle.com The statements and opinions expressed here are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Oracle Corporation. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 3 lines BUT WAIT:

> BUT WAIT: > And yes, I know a lot of electronic musicians who do in fact make > some money on the side doing advertising jingles, CD-ROM soundtracks,

stock

quoted 1 line music work, etc. I wonder how many "famous" IDM artists do this work on

> music work, etc. I wonder how many "famous" IDM artists do this work on

the

quoted 3 lines side. I wonder how many do this kind of work openly and how many keep it

> side. I wonder how many do this kind of work openly and how many keep it > secret. I'm not talking about licensing their music for advertisements, I > mean doing contracted work for hire. Anyoone know?

Kirk 'As One' [can't spell his surname] does advert jingles. Kraftwerk's recent single 'Expo 2000' was really a jingle for the exhibition of the same name. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 1 line tee hee hee ... so naive

>tee hee hee ... so naive

"tee hee hee" are you for real?

quoted 3 lines * Has it occurred to you that drum and bass is a totally mainstream musical

>* Has it occurred to you that drum and bass is a totally mainstream musical >form right now and that it's hardly obscure or underground at all, >especially to people who make ads?

Drum and bass is not a 'totally mainstream musical form' right now. It's not exactly obscure or underground, but it's not mainstream, and definitely not 'totally mainstream'. I'd throw out a wild guess that a lot of other people on this list have also lost some of their perspective on what's really happening in music right now. I'll concede that it's quite possible that a bunch of VW-driving ad slingers have a passing interest in 'futuristic music' right now.

quoted 2 lines * Has it occurred to you that many drum and bass musicians make most of

>* Has it occurred to you that many drum and bass musicians make most of >their living off of selling their music to advertisers?

Well, that's news to me. Pretty fucking depressing, really.

quoted 5 lines * Has it occurred to you that people who make ads might in fact be cooler

>* Has it occurred to you that people who make ads might in fact be cooler >than you think? Yes, for every IDM fan working in the advertising world >there are probably 100 people whose idea of what's good music is based >exclusively on what's in the Billboard top 40. But those people don't make >Microsoft and VW ads - they work for Proctor and Gamble, AOL, and the WB.

I

quoted 4 lines would bet that of the working adults on the IDM list (the few of us that

>would bet that of the working adults on the IDM list (the few of us that >there are) there are probably a disproportionally large number of people >working for the advertising industry, major or major-indie label record >industry, or some kind of mainstream media company.

Well, then they've achieved exactly what they set out to achieve. VW and Microsoft are 'cool' and Proctor and Gamble and AOL are 'uncool'. Not to mention, what's up with Chevy and their stale ass Bob Seger commercials... "Um, man, let's go to that VW dealer... these Chevrolets just don't .. DO it for me.." I'll admit that I hate advertising. Each one of these threads that pops up about some commercial that had a great song in it turns my stomache. I'm guessing that there are a lot of fucking soul-less white collar capitalists on this list that couldn't care less that some broke ass artist sold his soul to VW, and I guess that's probably another reason that this "scene" seems to exist exclusively on the internet, where everyone can look any way they want, buy their cds on cdnow and eBay, and talk a bunch of elitist shit from the comfort of their own computer room. I guess I just wish that this music would result in a real scene, where people had some sense of artistic integrity, and a willingness to leave their fucking bedroom to support it. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure some of the people on this list go out. In 3 years or less, people will know this type of music as "TV Commercial music" or "e-commerce music". I don't know about you, but that bothers me. I don't care what happens to this excuse for a scene, or this list, because I don't apparently fit very neatly into either of them, but I hate the idea of some of my favorite groups jumping at the chance to sell a song to VW or Microsoft because they are broke as shit because there is no forum for them to tour on, because the majority of their fans are at home, sitting on their fat asses watching Television. I expect witty, condescending responses from both you and David Turgeon, so here's a big Fuck You, in advance. Have a great day. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 6 lines I don't care what happens to this excuse for a scene, or this list, because

>I don't care what happens to this excuse for a scene, or this list, because >I don't apparently fit very neatly into either of them, but I hate the idea >of some of my favorite groups jumping at the chance to sell a song to VW or >Microsoft because they are broke as shit because there is no forum for them >to tour on, because the majority of their fans are at home, sitting on their >fat asses watching Television.

while shielding my eyes from such obvious and willful indifference, i was able to think for a moment. then i got confused: my first impression is that <favorite group> wouldn't have to sell their song to an evil media presence if they were popular enough not to have to "sell out" for a check that big. unfortunately, i'm having trouble with the implication that warp, ninja tune, or any other (irony alert) respectable label could (or would want to get big enough to) support their artists to that degree. but the label could if they had the bankrolls of major labels or media companies, i suppose. which is fine, since the big-money music business is okay where the big-money advertising world isn't. does anybody know how many copies of an album (or collection of 12") -- with some typical token figure for royalty rate and advertising overhead -- a band of two would have to sell to make a realistic yearly income befitting their cultural importance...say US$35,000 apiece? -- www.synthesizer.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

--- John Thelin <teaflax@erols.com> wrote:

quoted 5 lines Luckabaugh, Steve wrote:

> Luckabaugh, Steve wrote: > > >> * Has it occurred to you that drum and bass is a > totally > >> mainstream musical form right now

And why is that? Because you hear it in a commercial...I hear techno in commercials...The Orb in commercials...Wait isn't Orb ...IDM OH IDM must be mainstream...huh? Is that the rational? Are there huge drum n bass sections at Musicland now? I don't think so. Does the average Joe even know what drum n bass is...not likely. I don't believe drum n bass has shared mainstream success. Ez Rollers had a tune that hit high in the charts in the UK (due to a movie) and of course there is Roni Size. But that's about it.

quoted 7 lines In the UK, yes, maybe but in american NO! I don't

> > In the UK, yes, maybe but in american NO! I don't > hear it ANYWHERE on the > > radio (meaning normal big commercial radio not > college radio) so it's not > > *mainstream*. I don't see a Plug CD or a Wagon > Christ CD next to Rickie > > Martin in stores.

Yeah, where's the Grooverider CD? Since he is a big name, each store must have just tons. Right? :)

quoted 1 line America is a musical wasteland.

> America is a musical wasteland.

For the most part, but there are alot of underground pockets of good music all over.

quoted 10 lines * Has it occurred to you that many drum and bass

> >> * Has it occurred to you that many drum and bass > musicians > >> make most of their living off of selling their > music to advertisers? > > > > Really? Most d'nb musicians? why are there so > few adds featuring it if > > it's so widely sold? This doesn't make sense. > Where do you get your > > information?

Yeah NAME some producers, a least one notable one. I think there are alot of people that just put together tracks for commercials. A friend of mine that makes commercials has someone make the music he needs for commercials. Apparently, all he needs is to give the guy an example of what he wants and the guy can mimic it. And let's say a dnb producer did make a tune, what then? Does that mean he is lesser in anyway? I don't think your facts are straight.

quoted 11 lines Again, I think that's a UK thing - but even here in

> Again, I think that's a UK thing - but even here in > the US, I think I hear > four to five D'n'b or IDM-style background tunes per > hour. Not all of it > particularly good, but most of it better than just > reusing or redoing Top 40 > material and all of it far more interesting than > anything heard on the > radio. I'll try to keep score during prime time > tonight by keeping the TV on > while I work.

I would rather hear electronic stuff even if it's not good, then hear classic rock or top 40. Actually KROQ in LA uses IDM or danceable electronic for their commercials. They play nothing but crappy rock, but if they want to talk over something you can hear them use Aphex Twin and Meat Beat Manifesto. I guess they feel the music is good for something...talking over. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 5 lines I'm

> I'm > guessing that there are a lot of fucking soul-less white > collar capitalists > on this list that couldn't care less that some broke ass > artist sold his soul to VW

...

quoted 3 lines I expect witty, condescending responses from both you and

> I expect witty, condescending responses from both you and > David Turgeon, so > here's a big Fuck You, in advance. Have a great day.

(nothing witty in this response, by the way) So, in your universe only rich people and their trust fund kids get to be honest artists, writers, and musicians? And those of us who want to make a living and support ourselves and our families by working at a real job are sell outs? How fucking old are you? Don't you know anything about the real world where people (even artists) have jobs and have to struggle to even have the *time* to produce the kind of work they love? I work for a web design company and I am an artist. I have to work here because I need to make a living. I hate the fact that my job requires me to provide my talent and time to help shitheads I hate make money. But you know what? I don't have much fucking choice since being a full time artist is hard for us people who don't have trust funds. So grow up and be thankful that at least a few people who work in the media business care enough to inject some artistic integrity and innovation into their jobs at all, otherwise you'd live in an empty soulless world full of Reader Digest Condensed Books and Ally McBeal. The fact that artists have to work in such unfulfilling jobs is indeed, as you say, a tragic aspect of the capitalist system. I appreciate your idealism for supporting the underground arts, and indeed such support can only help artists avoid working in mainstream media jobs. But its a fact of life that such support doesn't exist and people like myself and Aphex Twin have to "sell out" sometimes to make ends meet. I realize you mostly fault society for this, but you appear to fault the artists as well. You're a dickhead for insinuating that working for the man is indicative of some kind of character flaw in artists and for suggesting that they can't take pride in the work they do for the man. I hope someday to manipulate my career to be able to do great work which happens to be funded by tons of money from the man, like Stanley Kubrick or Frank Gehry are able to do. I don't enjoy insulting you (especially since you've had such good posts about the absurd whiteness of this list), but for some inexplicable reason you picked a fight with me and you appear to need a stiff dose of 'news from the real world.' -Cf --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

--- Guai Lo <jotai@mindspring.com> wrote:

quoted 15 lines tee hee hee ... so naive

> >tee hee hee ... so naive > > "tee hee hee" are you for real? > > >* Has it occurred to you that drum and bass is a > totally mainstream musical > >form right now and that it's hardly obscure or > underground at all, > >especially to people who make ads? > > Drum and bass is not a 'totally mainstream musical > form' right now. It's > not exactly obscure or underground, but it's not > mainstream, and definitely not 'totally > mainstream'.

It's also kind of funny because most articles I have read has said that drum n bass is underground again. Alot of people were anticipating that it was going to be "the Next Big Thing" and alot of hype surrounded jungle. And it sort of retreated back into the underground. Also if dnb is so mainstream, then why are the turnouts at most shows I go to in LA under 300 people. I don't know maybe LA is too small of a town.

quoted 9 lines I'd throw out a wild guess that a lot of other

> I'd throw out a wild guess that a lot of other > people on this list have also lost some of their > perspective on what's > really happening in music right now. > I'll concede > that it's quite possible > that a bunch of VW-driving ad slingers have a > passing interest in > 'futuristic music' right now.

__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

This whole debate reminds me of the kind of "so-and-so's a poseur" debates my friends had in high school when alternative rock started to make the pop charts. It was stupid then and it's stupid now.

quoted 3 lines Are there huge drum n bass sections at

> Are there huge drum n bass sections at > Musicland now? I don't think so. Does the average Joe > even know what drum n bass is...not likely.

The Virgin Records Megastore in NYC has at least two rows of drum and bass, and that's in addition to two rows of "Electronica" and two more rows of "Dance Music". Maybe I spoke too soon about the rest of America, but the fact of the matter is that you can't say that the *sound* of drum and bass would surprise anyone in America anymore, even if almost nobody can name any artists. It's a mainstream sound, something everyone is familiar with. Yes, the scene may be smaller now after the big bubble a few years ago, but the *sound* itself is infiltrating other musical forms, like a drop of red ink in a glass of water: soon, all pop music will be tinted with drum and bass influences regardless of whether or not there's a drum and bass section at the mall. House music may not be mainstream either, but Cher and Madonna use the sound as if they knew full well that the kids wouldn't be threatened by it.

quoted 12 lines * Has it occurred to you that many drum and bass

> > >> * Has it occurred to you that many drum and bass > > musicians > > >> make most of their living off of selling their > > music to advertisers? > > > > > > Really? Most d'nb musicians? why are there so > > few adds featuring it if > > > it's so widely sold? This doesn't make sense. > > Where do you get your > > > information? > > Yeah NAME some producers, a least one notable one.

First, you too misread me: I said *many* musicians, not *most*. As far as naming them, check the IDM archives for IDM artists in ads. Every famous artist who has a track in a major telecommunications or car company ad I *guarantee* made the majority of their money that year from that ad.

quoted 6 lines I think there are alot of people that just put together

> I think there are alot of people that just put together > tracks for commercials. A friend of mine that makes > commercials has someone make the music he needs for > commercials. Apparently, all he needs is to give the > guy an example of what he wants and the guy can mimic > it.

Says a lot about the difficulty of making drum and bass, huh? I'll bet that there are people who make drum and bass for commercials who can put together tracks that would make Photek and Grooverider fans shit their pants in awe, but they choose not to release records cuz they can't make money from them. They choose their audience - instead of ccatering to club kids they cater to ad executives. Who are often the same people anyway. They guy you speak of sounds talented and could probably get a record deal with some D&B label if he put his mind to it.

quoted 2 lines And let's say a dnb producer did make a tune, what

> And let's say a dnb producer did make a tune, what > then? Does that mean he is lesser in anyway?

Absolutely not. He or she's making a living just like I do, by working for the man. I would put the same question to you, however: Would you be hurt/disgusted if you found out that someone like, say, Amon Tobin (a totally hypothetical example), made some sweet money on the side doing interstitial jingles for the nightly news? Frankly, I'd be a little pleased if I found that out. A little sad that he can't spend all his time on his art, but hey, maybe he likes doing work for ads.

quoted 4 lines Again, I think that's a UK thing - but even here in

> > Again, I think that's a UK thing - but even here in > > the US, I think I hear > > four to five D'n'b or IDM-style background tunes per > > hour.

God, if I hear another "UK is cooler than the US" comment I'm gonna puke. From now on this thread's off-list for me, I promise. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

--- Chris Fahey wrote: > This whole debate reminds me of the kind of> "so-and-so's a poseur" debates> my friends had in high school when alternative rock> started to make the pop> charts. It was stupid then and it's stupid now.First of all, I don't really care if something I like gets huge or underground. I'm not concerned about that in the slightest. My point was that if something is "SO MAINSTREAM" you would be seeing ALOT (and I stress ALOT) of drum n bassin crappy corporate record store (in shopping malls) all over America. I know most record stores should have Breakbeat Era and Roni Size Reprazent, or an occasional Metalheadz comp. I mean alot more than just a few titles.> > Are there huge drum n bass sections at> > Musicland now? I don't think so. Does the average> Joe> > even know what drum n bass is...not likely.> > The Virgin Records Megastore in NYC has at least two> rows of drum and bass,> and that's in addition to two rows of "Electronica"> and two more rows of "Dance Music". Yeah in NY. But if it's so mainstream it should be all over MTV and in the shops all over the US. > Maybe I spoke too soon about the rest> of America, but the> fact of the matter is that you can't say that the> *sound* of drum and bass> would surprise anyone in America anymore, even if> almost nobody can name any artists.Why not? You don't hear nasty bass or hard ass basslines on tv. And there is a huge different from hearing something on tv speakers versus a good sound system.Plus the commercials play light safe sounding stuff for less than 30 seconds. That's a big difference from hearing it pumping all night. > It's a mainstream sound, something everyone> is familiar with. I don't agree. So do you think you could just go in an ordinary club and play drum n bass to a crowd and everyone's going to dance because it's mainstream. Most people aren't ready for drum n bass, it's going to take quite a bit longer for it to get more popular.Hell I had to explain what drum n bass was to my station manager at my radio station. He's in his mid 20s, and has been at an underground station for many years. And he didn't even understand exactly what jungle was. And I'm sure he watched tv and has seen commercials too. > Yes, the scene may be smaller now after the big> bubble a few years ago, but> the *sound* itself is infiltrating other musical> forms, like a drop of red> ink in a glass of water: soon, all pop music will be> tinted with drum and> bass influences regardless of whether or not there's> a drum and bass section at the mall.I'm sure that drum n bass will be influential on many styles of music. You can already hear some of IDM and dnb's influences in hip hop. Most genres borrow ideas from others. I don't think you can call something mainstream if it isn't shifting massive units, and widely accepted by the masses. I don't think dnb is close to doing either.> House music may not be mainstream either, but Cher > and Madonna use the sound as if they knew full well > that the kids wouldn't be threatened by it.House is WAY WAY more mainstream than DNB is or has been. No comparison --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.

-----Original Message----- From: Chris Fahey <chrisf@raremedium.com> To: 'Guai Lo' <jotai@mindspring.com>; 'IDM (E-mail)' <idm@hyperreal.org> Date: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 5:00 PM Subject: RE: (idm) Dude. Microsoft.

quoted 18 lines I'm

>> I'm >> guessing that there are a lot of fucking soul-less white >> collar capitalists >> on this list that couldn't care less that some broke ass >> artist sold his soul to VW >... >> I expect witty, condescending responses from both you and >> David Turgeon, so >> here's a big Fuck You, in advance. Have a great day. > >(nothing witty in this response, by the way) > >So, in your universe only rich people and their trust fund kids get to be >honest artists, writers, and musicians? And those of us who want to make a >living and support ourselves and our families by working at a real job are >sell outs? How fucking old are you? Don't you know anything about the real >world where people (even artists) have jobs and have to struggle to even >have the *time* to produce the kind of work they love?

I'm curious as to what it was that I said in my post that led you to believe that "in my universe only rich people and trust fund kids get to be honest artists, writers, and musicians". Are you trying to tell me that for a struggling, working-man, IDM or Drum'n'bass artist, the only way to make ends meet is to sell a song that you sweated over for months and made you money and new fans in various clubs to fucking VW? I can think of other ways to make ends meet. It's called a work ethic. I honestly don't have a problem with a signed musician throwing something together for a TV commerical that meets their personal standards for such a thing. The thing that bothers me, is giving up rights to a released song that people appreciated to a fucking car company (or dot-com, or anything else). I feel betrayed when I hear a song like 'Little Fluffy Clouds' that I used to like and brings back some fond personal memories, being used as a soundtrack to a bunch of goddamn gasoline powered cars spinning around in some perverse spin on human expression. I would never fucking let that happen if I was in a position to stop it.

quoted 3 lines I work for a web design company and I am an artist. I have to work here

>I work for a web design company and I am an artist. I have to work here >because I need to make a living. I hate the fact that my job requires me to >provide my talent and time to help shitheads I hate make money. But you

know

quoted 6 lines what? I don't have much fucking choice since being a full time artist is

>what? I don't have much fucking choice since being a full time artist is >hard for us people who don't have trust funds. So grow up and be thankful >that at least a few people who work in the media business care enough to >inject some artistic integrity and innovation into their jobs at all, >otherwise you'd live in an empty soulless world full of Reader Digest >Condensed Books and Ally McBeal.

Gee, thanks Mr. Media! I guess I should 'grow up and be thankful' that instead of commercials I can ignore because they are so ludicrous, that instead I'm pummelled with this insipid version of the very music-style that I like the most with these fucking facist corporations branding people with their 'hip, catchy' logos on every bass kick. You're right, man, Ally McBeal blows... thank God she got cancelled and I get to watch that funny, hip new Fox spin-off of the movie Go every week.

quoted 4 lines The fact that artists have to work in such unfulfilling jobs is indeed, as

>The fact that artists have to work in such unfulfilling jobs is indeed, as >you say, a tragic aspect of the capitalist system. I appreciate your >idealism for supporting the underground arts, and indeed such support can >only help artists avoid working in mainstream media jobs. But its a fact

of

quoted 2 lines life that such support doesn't exist and people like myself and Aphex Twin

>life that such support doesn't exist and people like myself and Aphex Twin >have to "sell out" sometimes to make ends meet.

If it's a fact a life due to the fact that nobody in this "scene" supports live music, then I truly hope that people such as you will do what you can to change that, instead of peddling your core thoughts and feelings as a human being to sell a toaster oven.

quoted 4 lines I realize you mostly fault society for this, but you appear to fault the

>I realize you mostly fault society for this, but you appear to fault the >artists as well. You're a dickhead for insinuating that working for the man >is indicative of some kind of character flaw in artists and for suggesting >that they can't take pride in the work they do for the man.

Listen, I am strictly talking about music here. I said earlier in this email that I wouldn't mind so much if a musician was contracted to do a song for a TV commercial, and came up with something from scratch. I'm broke as shit right now, and between jobs. If VW came up to me and asked me to come up with a pounding techno track that was 30 seconds in length for a T.V. commercial, I'd do it in a heartbeat. What I do object to is the saps that are constantly asking for track I.D.s from these TV commercials, that don't seem to have any problem with the fact that this style of music (IDM and D'n'B) seems to be speeding towards 'electronic music generic enough that it can be used to sell cars', or as I like to call it: "EMGETICBUTSC music". As to whether artists should be held accountable for letting fans down by selling out, I say Hell Yes. I realize that IDM isn't exactly anti-establishment protest music in nature, but I find it hard to stomache that all these years I've just been listening to "The Future of Commercial Jingles". I kind of had other things in mind when I was seeking this stuff out. I hope someday

quoted 6 lines to manipulate my career to be able to do great work which happens to be

>to manipulate my career to be able to do great work which happens to be >funded by tons of money from the man, like Stanley Kubrick or Frank Gehry >are able to do. I don't enjoy insulting you (especially since you've had >such good posts about the absurd whiteness of this list), but for some >inexplicable reason you picked a fight with me and you appear to need a >stiff dose of 'news from the real world.'

Best of luck to you. I'd hardly place any movie makers in the context of this conversation, though, unless Stanley Kubrick did some Downy commercials back in the day that I wasn't aware of. I don't enjoy being insulted by you, and thanks for a fairly civil response, I geniunely expected worse. I don't really understand the whole "real world" thing, but if you are saying that 'this is how the world is, deal with it', I guess I'd quote Jodie Foster from Contact, "Funny, I always thought the world was what you make of it." --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 17 lines I'm curious as to what it was that I said in my post that led you to believe

> I'm curious as to what it was that I said in my post that led you to believe > that "in my universe only rich people and trust fund kids get to be honest > artists, writers, and musicians". Are you trying to tell me that for a > struggling, working-man, IDM or Drum'n'bass artist, the only way to make > ends meet is to sell a song that you sweated over for months and made you > money and new fans in various clubs to fucking VW? I can think of other > ways to make ends meet. It's called a work ethic. I honestly don't have a > problem with a signed musician throwing something together for a TV > commerical that meets their personal standards for such a thing. The thing > that bothers me, is giving up rights to a released song that people > appreciated to a fucking car company (or dot-com, or anything else). I feel > betrayed when I hear a song like 'Little Fluffy Clouds' that I used to like > and brings back some fond personal memories, being used as a soundtrack to a > bunch of goddamn gasoline powered cars spinning around in some perverse spin > on human expression. I would never fucking let that happen if I was in a > position to stop it. >

actually. most of the time the artist is in no position to stop this from happening. the record label owns the mechanicals and they decide whether or not a track gets sold to VW or whoever. the artist gets publishing money every time it is played...however has no say in its use. guaranteed my friend that alex patterson had no say in the use of his little ditty in that ad to which you refer above. it actually makes the commercial more interesting to me really... im not gonna go right out and buy a fucking vw bug so all it serves to do is throw down some groovy little tune whilst im scratching my ass between teevee shows. have a nice day. tunafish. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

At 06:16 PM 1/18/00 -0600, Guai Lo wrote:

quoted 6 lines As to whether artists should be held accountable for letting fans down by

>As to whether artists should be held accountable for letting fans down by >selling out, I say Hell Yes. I realize that IDM isn't exactly >anti-establishment protest music in nature, but I find it hard to stomache >that all these years I've just been listening to "The Future of Commercial >Jingles". I kind of had other things in mind when I was seeking this stuff >out.

A large body of IDM that I hear is so head-in-ass in the culture of hipness and irony, that I can think of few more fitting fates for the music than an artist like v/vm being used in a commercial on TV. I think many musicians would probably appreciate the irony of that. I fail to see how anything that causes interest in an artist is that bad. I mean, yes, I'm sure many of us have a lot of time and energy invested in being hip and underground thanks to electronic music, but I'll bet the Orb, etc. are enjoying having new fans who discovered them via some commercial. They have more fans, more people appreciating their music, and they get a few more cents income from selling extra cds. How is this bad, other than robbing people of Punk Rock Points because their music is in a commercial now? If a musician works a day job, how is that any less of a selling-out to 'the Man' than liscensing a track? And yes, I know I shouldn't be contributing to this dumb thread. But it keeps coming up, so I have to throw in my ha'penny. ---- "There is no gang of 'intelligent techno' freaks here who break showroom windows to steal pocket calculators." - Jouni Alkio Jeff Pitrman [cCM] jeff@spof.net http://bling.spof.net --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Chris Fahey wrote:

quoted 3 lines This whole debate reminds me of the kind of "so-and-so's a poseur" debates

> This whole debate reminds me of the kind of "so-and-so's a poseur" debates > my friends had in high school when alternative rock started to make the pop > charts. It was stupid then and it's stupid now.

I am reminded of one of the funniest things I ever read on a music list. I was on some list or another and a couple of geniuses started arguing about whether Green Day were "real punk rock" or not, and someone piped up that they were going to hibernate for 100 years, and if, at that time, people were still arguing about whether so-and-so were "really punk rock" or not, the world would finally find out whether it was possible, in his words, "to bitch-slap someone to death." Simon Reynolds is right. -d.w. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

i think most people would be in favor of helping the artist out. i don't think it has as much to do with being 'underground' as most people think. to me, it's the fact that after hearing music associated with things that i hate, like hearing the second track off squarepusher's selection sixteen used for some mtv ad or stereolab being used by volkswagon, that i can't escape the imagery of those commercial establishments and it really ruins any spirituality the music might have had beforehand when you are picturing little cars driving around in circles. -sean ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Pitrman" <jeff@spof.net> To: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2000 5:53 PM Subject: Re: (idm) Dude. Microsoft.

quoted 5 lines At 06:16 PM 1/18/00 -0600, Guai Lo wrote:

> At 06:16 PM 1/18/00 -0600, Guai Lo wrote: > > >As to whether artists should be held accountable for letting fans down by > >selling out, I say Hell Yes. I realize that IDM isn't exactly > >anti-establishment protest music in nature, but I find it hard to

stomache

quoted 1 line that all these years I've just been listening to "The Future of

> >that all these years I've just been listening to "The Future of

Commercial

quoted 1 line Jingles". I kind of had other things in mind when I was seeking this

> >Jingles". I kind of had other things in mind when I was seeking this

stuff

quoted 4 lines out.

> >out. > > A large body of IDM that I hear is so head-in-ass in the culture of > hipness and irony, that I can think of few more fitting fates for the

music

quoted 5 lines than an artist like v/vm being used in a commercial on TV. I think many

> than an artist like v/vm being used in a commercial on TV. I think many > musicians would probably appreciate the irony of that. > I fail to see how anything that causes interest in an artist is that bad. > I mean, yes, I'm sure many of us have a lot of time and energy invested in > being hip and underground thanks to electronic music, but I'll bet the

Orb,

quoted 21 lines etc. are enjoying having new fans who discovered them via some commercial.

> etc. are enjoying having new fans who discovered them via some commercial. > They have more fans, more people appreciating their music, and they get a > few more cents income from selling extra cds. How is this bad, other than > robbing people of Punk Rock Points because their music is in a commercial > now? If a musician works a day job, how is that any less of a selling-out > to 'the Man' than liscensing a track? > > And yes, I know I shouldn't be contributing to this dumb thread. But it > keeps coming up, so I have to throw in my ha'penny. > > ---- > "There is no gang of 'intelligent techno' freaks here who break > showroom windows to steal pocket calculators." - Jouni Alkio > Jeff Pitrman [cCM] jeff@spof.net http://bling.spof.net > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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Brian Gause, bgause@us.oracle.com waxed philosophic:

quoted 5 lines Think before you open your mouth and criticize everything at once. Cool

>Think before you open your mouth and criticize everything at once. Cool >things >are cool because people have thought about them and figured out HOW and WHY >they're cool...not because it's obvious to everyone how and why they're cool. >

Didnt William F Buckley jr say that? No, it was Picasso I think... e Ernesto Ikerd, (817) 763-4795 Company Graphics, Dept 17, MZ-1156 Lockheed Martin Tactical Aircraft Systems Fort Worth, Texas --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 13 lines A large body of IDM that I hear is so head-in-ass in the culture of

> A large body of IDM that I hear is so head-in-ass in the culture of >hipness and irony, that I can think of few more fitting fates for the music >than an artist like v/vm being used in a commercial on TV. I think many >musicians would probably appreciate the irony of that. > I fail to see how anything that causes interest in an artist is that bad. >I mean, yes, I'm sure many of us have a lot of time and energy invested in >being hip and underground thanks to electronic music, but I'll bet the Orb, >etc. are enjoying having new fans who discovered them via some commercial. >They have more fans, more people appreciating their music, and they get a >few more cents income from selling extra cds. How is this bad, other than >robbing people of Punk Rock Points because their music is in a commercial >now? If a musician works a day job, how is that any less of a selling-out >to 'the Man' than liscensing a track?

I look at it like this: Artist works his ass off to get signed, earns credibility within a fairly small, but devoted scene, then for whatever reason, decides to just turn his/her back on his/her fans by selling song to TV commercial so that millions of idiots will perceive a company of being futuristic, and never looking at instrumental electronic music any other way partially BECAUSE they've come to associate it with futuristic TV ads. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 1 line Please explain, because it seems to be a really silly idea.

> Please explain, because it seems to be a really silly idea.

No, please don't, because if I have to read this fucking "mainstream vs. underground" thread again, I'll go postal. Thanks. Bill -- AppNet MidWest Interactive [formerly Sigma6] / http://www.appnet.com http://www.chromedecay.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

so i actually saw the commercial that started this whole debacle. to me it was just a really lame and cheap imitation of something like the girl/boy song by aphex. with the pizz. strings and the sputtery beat. except the strings werent that cool and neither was the beat. anyways, this is my last thought on this topic. later, greg davis autumn records http://www.amug.org/~jkdavis/autumn stay tuned for some great new releases in 2000 np: claude debussy-trois nocturnes --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

At this point, I'm getting tired of this whole thread. It's obvious that people who don't care if their favorite musicians do TV commercials are going to continue to think that way, and interpret what they want from what I say. I hate advertising. In the first response to the thread that I sent, I stated that I was coming from an anti-advertising viewpoint. People that like commercials/ads, and people that work in the advertising industry are obviously going to disagree with my view because it's coming from the direction of someone that already hates advertising and considers it evil and manipulative shit. Obviously somebody coming from the same direction I am, is going to have issues with a band that they like contributing to advertising in the form of their music. I don't understand what you find silly about what I said, so maybe I just worded it poorly, or maybe you are one of those people that have absolutely no problem with advertising. What I was trying to say, is that in the case of an IDM artist in particular; jumping at the opportunity to slap down 30 seconds of one of your songs to pitch a product in hopes that mainstream TV audiences will like the song in any way, seems to me like just skipping right over your devoted fans in search of greener pastures. I never said shit about 'underground vs mainstream'. I'd love it if IDM managed to gain mainstream acceptance without becoming watered down. It would not only be a really good indication that mainstream tastes are improving, but it would be a hell of a lot easier for me to find some of the cds I want in local record stores. TV commercials, in my opinion, are not going to be how IDM finds mainstream acceptance. They are 30 seconds long, and they aren't about the music, they are about the product. All the music does is convince Joe Lunchbox that Microsoft is really cutting edge and futuristic. That bothers me, and if it doesn't bother you, then obviously anything I say will seem silly to you because we aren't, and will never be on the same page. This is the last thing I'm going to say on this topic for a long time. -----Original Message----- From: wells <s0ewoliv@vcu.edu> To: Guai Lo <jotai@mindspring.com>; idm@hyperreal.org <idm@hyperreal.org>; Jeff Pitrman <jeff@spof.net> Date: Friday, January 21, 2000 4:09 PM Subject: RE: (idm) Dude. Microsoft.

quoted 35 lines Your claim really doesn't make a bit of sense. You equate selling a song to

>Your claim really doesn't make a bit of sense. You equate selling a song to >a commercail with selling out one's fans. Please explain, because it seems >to be a really silly idea. > >- wells oliver / s0ewoliv@vcu.edu > [ "you be the lighthouse in the storm > and i'll be the ship filled with a thousand dead souls" ] > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Guai Lo [mailto:jotai@mindspring.com] >> Sent: Friday, January 21, 2000 4:42 PM >> To: idm@hyperreal.org; Jeff Pitrman >> Subject: Re: (idm) Dude. Microsoft. >> >> I look at it like this: Artist works his ass off to get signed, earns >> credibility within a fairly small, but devoted scene, then for whatever >> reason, decides to just turn his/her back on his/her fans by >> selling song to >> TV commercial so that millions of idiots will perceive a company of being >> futuristic, and never looking at instrumental electronic music >> any other way >> partially BECAUSE they've come to associate it with futuristic TV ads. >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >> >> > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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on a side note there was a program on Chanel4 (uk) two days ago all about burglars, thieves and other nasties and they used pretty much the whole of Dead Cities by FSOL as the soundtrack. One woman talked about swallowing diamonds..... nice ----- Original Message ----- From: Guai Lo <jotai@mindspring.com> To: wells <s0ewoliv@vcu.edu>; <idm@hyperreal.org>; Jeff Pitrman <jeff@spof.net> Sent: 22 January 2000 00:16 Subject: Re: (idm) Dude. Microsoft.

quoted 3 lines At this point, I'm getting tired of this whole thread. It's obvious that

> At this point, I'm getting tired of this whole thread. It's obvious that > people who don't care if their favorite musicians do TV commercials are > going to continue to think that way, and interpret what they want from

what

quoted 2 lines I say. I hate advertising. In the first response to the thread that I

> I say. I hate advertising. In the first response to the thread that I > sent, I stated that I was coming from an anti-advertising viewpoint.

People

quoted 1 line that like commercials/ads, and people that work in the advertising

> that like commercials/ads, and people that work in the advertising

industry

quoted 3 lines are obviously going to disagree with my view because it's coming from the

> are obviously going to disagree with my view because it's coming from the > direction of someone that already hates advertising and considers it evil > and manipulative shit. Obviously somebody coming from the same direction

I

quoted 5 lines am, is going to have issues with a band that they like contributing to

> am, is going to have issues with a band that they like contributing to > advertising in the form of their music. > > I don't understand what you find silly about what I said, so maybe I just > worded it poorly, or maybe you are one of those people that have

absolutely

quoted 1 line no problem with advertising. What I was trying to say, is that in the

> no problem with advertising. What I was trying to say, is that in the

case

quoted 2 lines of an IDM artist in particular; jumping at the opportunity to slap down 30

> of an IDM artist in particular; jumping at the opportunity to slap down 30 > seconds of one of your songs to pitch a product in hopes that mainstream

TV

quoted 3 lines audiences will like the song in any way, seems to me like just skipping

> audiences will like the song in any way, seems to me like just skipping > right over your devoted fans in search of greener pastures. I never said > shit about 'underground vs mainstream'. I'd love it if IDM managed to

gain

quoted 1 line mainstream acceptance without becoming watered down. It would not only be

> mainstream acceptance without becoming watered down. It would not only be

a

quoted 1 line really good indication that mainstream tastes are improving, but it would

> really good indication that mainstream tastes are improving, but it would

be

quoted 1 line a hell of a lot easier for me to find some of the cds I want in local

> a hell of a lot easier for me to find some of the cds I want in local

record

quoted 2 lines stores. TV commercials, in my opinion, are not going to be how IDM finds

> stores. TV commercials, in my opinion, are not going to be how IDM finds > mainstream acceptance. They are 30 seconds long, and they aren't about

the

quoted 2 lines music, they are about the product. All the music does is convince Joe

> music, they are about the product. All the music does is convince Joe > Lunchbox that Microsoft is really cutting edge and futuristic. That

bothers

quoted 2 lines me, and if it doesn't bother you, then obviously anything I say will seem

> me, and if it doesn't bother you, then obviously anything I say will seem > silly to you because we aren't, and will never be on the same page. This

is

quoted 12 lines the last thing I'm going to say on this topic for a long time.

> the last thing I'm going to say on this topic for a long time. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: wells <s0ewoliv@vcu.edu> > To: Guai Lo <jotai@mindspring.com>; idm@hyperreal.org <idm@hyperreal.org>; > Jeff Pitrman <jeff@spof.net> > Date: Friday, January 21, 2000 4:09 PM > Subject: RE: (idm) Dude. Microsoft. > > > >Your claim really doesn't make a bit of sense. You equate selling a song

to

quoted 1 line a commercail with selling out one's fans. Please explain, because it

> >a commercail with selling out one's fans. Please explain, because it

seems

quoted 17 lines to be a really silly idea.

> >to be a really silly idea. > > > >- wells oliver / s0ewoliv@vcu.edu > > [ "you be the lighthouse in the storm > > and i'll be the ship filled with a thousand dead souls" ] > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Guai Lo [mailto:jotai@mindspring.com] > >> Sent: Friday, January 21, 2000 4:42 PM > >> To: idm@hyperreal.org; Jeff Pitrman > >> Subject: Re: (idm) Dude. Microsoft. > >> > >> I look at it like this: Artist works his ass off to get signed, earns > >> credibility within a fairly small, but devoted scene, then for whatever > >> reason, decides to just turn his/her back on his/her fans by > >> selling song to > >> TV commercial so that millions of idiots will perceive a company of

being

quoted 22 lines futuristic, and never looking at instrumental electronic music

> >> futuristic, and never looking at instrumental electronic music > >> any other way > >> partially BECAUSE they've come to associate it with futuristic TV ads. > >> > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > >> For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >> > >> > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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