IDM Mailing Archive

More up, all CD: Sultan:Osman (FAX), Blu Tribunl (Akufen, Freeform, Rio-Off Artist - sealed), Dub Tribunl (AtomTM, Rip-Off Artist, etc.), Logreybeam (Type), But Then Again (Fehlmann, Jelinek, Deadbeat, etc. on ~scape), Triola (Kompakt), Robert Henke (aka Monolake), Machine Drum (Merck), Public Image, Melchior, R.H. Kirk, Michael Johnson, Geiom (Neo-Ouija), The Users and the Gadgets, Pan/Tone (new 2xCD), Ilkae (Merck), Snax (1/2 of Capt. Comatose), Toucaen, E*Rock (Audio Dregs), Balboa (sealed), Jamie Lidell (Warp), Propellor (Mark Spybey), P'Taah, Cool As Ice (ACR/New Order production), Mission Two (Nature comp., featuring Passarani, Phoenicia, D'archangelo, etc.), more. No reseves. Thanks! *http://tinyurl.com/6xfdo* OR http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQgotopageZ1QQsassZQ2ajpkleinQ2aQQsorecordsperpageZ25QQsosortorderZ1QQsosortpropertyZ1 seller id = *jpklein* --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

not really knowing . but I see a lot of auction posts coming up on the list .. ... just wondering if the trade of CD's is not making more money for owners of music than the original artists? in a model where 'free' P2P trading is changing the artists cycle and eating the theoretical sale of music how does this now compare to the trading of physical second hand material, in a environment where the penchant 'copy' is the the norm ? .simon -- ......... ............. ......................................... . . . ... .. .............. // \\ feed your culture --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

turnstyle wrote:

quoted 7 lines not really knowing . but I see a lot of auction posts coming

> > > not really knowing . but I see a lot of auction posts coming > up on the list .. > > ... just wondering if the trade of CD's is not making more > money for owners of music than the original artists?

I have no idea what the original artists make, nor what "most sellers" make, but since it's my post, I'll reply. I lose money - I almost never make it. If I do make money on a sale, it's *far* outweighed by what I lose on other sales, paypal costs, eBay fees, packaging costs, sometimes eating part of shipping costs, freebies tossed in, etc. I do it because I will lose less if I do it and if I didn't do it, there's no way I could afford to dump the silly amount I dump into "the industry" on a weekly basis. As I am and end-user, I don't get deals or discounts. I pay full price and sell for 6.99 start bids. If you don't believe it, follow the URLs and see for yourself. It is the very rare disc which nets what I pay - and when you factor in the costs associated with selling, it gets rarer. So to answer your question, I really doubt it.

quoted 3 lines in a model where 'free' P2P trading is changing the artists cycle

> > in a model where 'free' P2P trading is changing the artists cycle > and eating the theoretical sale of music

How is selling a used item merit a comparison with P2P trading? Looks like an apples to oranges analogy imo. In terms of legalities, there is no comparison. If I felt I was stealing money from the artists (I would argue the contrary), I wouldn't do it. You'd be surprised how many of the artists buy from me, I from them and even sometimes send me things with the intent of having me make copies to tuck in as freebies so they can get their stuff heard. Not trying to be defensive, just replying. And forgive me if I'm covering ground already tread; this is the first post I see in my inbox having just gotten home from work. jeff --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Nov 5, 2004, at 4:32 PM, theREALmxyzptlk wrote:

quoted 25 lines turnstyle wrote:

> turnstyle wrote: > >> >> >> not really knowing . but I see a lot of auction posts coming >> up on the list .. >> >> ... just wondering if the trade of CD's is not making more >> money for owners of music than the original artists? > > I have no idea what the original artists make, nor what "most sellers" > make, but since it's my post, I'll reply. > I lose money - I almost never make it. If I do make money on a sale, > it's *far* outweighed by what I lose on other sales, paypal costs, > eBay fees, packaging costs, sometimes eating part of shipping costs, > freebies tossed in, etc. I do it because I will lose less if I do it > and if I didn't do it, there's no way I could afford to dump the silly > amount I dump into "the industry" on a weekly basis. As I am and > end-user, I don't get deals or discounts. I pay full price and sell > for 6.99 start bids. > If you don't believe it, follow the URLs and see for yourself. It is > the very rare disc which nets what I pay - and when you factor in the > costs associated with selling, it gets rarer. So to answer your > question, I really doubt it. >

...... and i would have to agree. I would also have to add that sometimes i like the appreciation of being able to share with others the opportunity to have access to the Music. np: The JAMs--"All You Need Is Love" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Seriously... If somebody has bought one of my records and they are done listening to it, or even if they just stuck it on their iPod and want to ditch the physical copy, I'd much rather have them sell it to somebody else than have it languish in their stacks for years with nobody listening to it. If I make $3 off Jeff buying my record I'm happy. If Jeff then sells it on E-Bay to somebody else, and the bidder likes the record enough to buy a copy of my *next* record, that's another $3 for me. Hopefully Jeff buys a copy of that one too. Maybe both of these guys sell their copies on E-Bay and the system expands geometrically. Why do I care if they are making a buck off it? It's better than just having the record disappear, and the larger the audience for my music gets, the happier I am. Besides, distributors take more profit than E-bay auctioneers, and a lot of the time they're gonna rip off the label way worse than somebody sharing mp3s or auctioning original media. I don't know where the crossover point is where an artist gets popular enough that the increase in exposure gained by multiple owners of a single unit manages to be counteracted by the loss of revenue. My guess is it's probably around the saturation level reached by shitty bands with one Big Hit on the radio, who everybody's heard of but nobody really likes, so they'd rather get a discount used copy of the one album with the hit (or download it from Limewire) and never shell out for another record. But I think if an artist isn't putting out work with enough quality to warrant casual listeners converting into paying customers, then they aren't earning their keep. Why blame the customer for refusing to subsidize a band who doesn't deserve to be paid? That said: go buy my record. (String Theory - Radiovalerian LP/CD on Wobblyhead Records!!!) Maybe Jeff has a copy up for auction on EBay... but my guess is he probably liked it enough to hang on to it ;) Josh PS: I saw a copy of our SMAK 12" go for like $50 on EBay once. I was thrilled. theREALmxyzptlk wrote:

quoted 52 lines turnstyle wrote:

> turnstyle wrote: > >> >> >> not really knowing . but I see a lot of auction posts coming >> up on the list .. >> >> ... just wondering if the trade of CD's is not making more >> money for owners of music than the original artists? > > > I have no idea what the original artists make, nor what "most sellers" > make, but since it's my post, I'll reply. > I lose money - I almost never make it. If I do make money on a sale, > it's *far* outweighed by what I lose on other sales, paypal costs, > eBay fees, packaging costs, sometimes eating part of shipping costs, > freebies tossed in, etc. I do it because I will lose less if I do it > and if I didn't do it, there's no way I could afford to dump the silly > amount I dump into "the industry" on a weekly basis. As I am and > end-user, I don't get deals or discounts. I pay full price and sell > for 6.99 start bids. > If you don't believe it, follow the URLs and see for yourself. It is > the very rare disc which nets what I pay - and when you factor in the > costs associated with selling, it gets rarer. So to answer your > question, I really doubt it. > >> >> in a model where 'free' P2P trading is changing the artists cycle >> and eating the theoretical sale of music > > > How is selling a used item merit a comparison with P2P trading? Looks > like an apples to oranges analogy imo. > In terms of legalities, there is no comparison. If I felt I was > stealing money from the artists (I would argue the contrary), I > wouldn't do it. > You'd be surprised how many of the artists buy from me, I from them > and even sometimes send me things with the intent of having me make > copies to tuck in as freebies so they can get their stuff heard. > Not trying to be defensive, just replying. And forgive me if I'm > covering ground already tread; this is the first post I see in my > inbox having just gotten home from work. > > > jeff > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

-- String Theory stringtheory@thornytigers.com http://thornytigers.com/stringtheory/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

----- Original Message ----- From: "turnstyle"

quoted 4 lines not really knowing . but I see a lot of auction posts coming

> not really knowing . but I see a lot of auction posts coming > up on the list .. > ... just wondering if the trade of CD's is not making more > money for owners of music than the original artists?

Mxyzptlk spends more hard-earned $ per week on brand-new idm music than any six people combined on this list spend in a month! And he's been a regular contributor to this list since its genesis. http://members.ebay.com/ws2/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=*jpklein* "I auction when I need the $ and can find the time. Most items are from my 8000+ CD collection (and growing stack of vinyl) and most of what I buy I buy because I like - not because I can get "xyz" from ebay...although I confess to doing that once in a blue moon if I find an exceptional deal. If you buy from me and have ANY problems, DO email me - you'll find I'm very flexible and will make it right if I can. Oh, if you're curious, the title of my page is a T-Bone Burnette line...with which I am in agreement. 2002 update : Nothing much has changed except the fact that I maintain my page my page regularly now, updating once or twice a week (generally the day before the previous listings end). I sell more things I find here and there to keep my sales interesting; my start bids are lower than my initial cost (certainly not factoring in pkging, ebay/paypal fees, etc.), so I'm not exactly the ideal capitalist. For me, it's more about being able to recycle money so I can buy more new stuff. While I will lose $ if the items sell at start or not more than, say, 25% over the start bids, I don't lose as much as if I didn't sell them or if I traded them in at a store." "On a personal note I am a factory worker (assmebly line!) for GM with 3.8 years until I can retire. I have two Bachelor's degrees and one MA thus far; starting my 2nd MA soon in lieu of a Ph.D (the likes of which cannot be found for people slaving at a day job). I'll do that and teach part time when I retire (heavy Humanities...Philosophy, Theology, Lit., etc). All that to say this: I often get very busy (up at 4am for work, etc.) and sometimes cannot get back via email as fast as I like. The other side of that coin is that I spend way too much time on the 'net and WILL get back fast if I can. I do take all pains to ship as quick as humanly possible. See my feedback." For Jeff, as for a few other regular ebay sellers of idm that post their ads to this list, ebay is a mostly lo$ing proposition, but it allows for a constant flow of more new music than might otherwise be afforded. And, Mxyzptlk, aka Jeff Klein, has turned more folks on this list onto new stuff, via posts to the list, than any 100 contributors combined, I'm certain. He maybe busy of late (past several months) with real-life stuff, but search the archives and learn about this true IDM hall-of-famer's contributions: http://lists.resynthesize.com/idm/ Personally, Jeff has turned me onto tons of new music, and is one of the most decent, gracious, honest, consciencious beings that I have *ever* encountered on this planet. I feel gifted by his presence in this world, and am enormously enriched by his love of music. seek np: http://tinyurl.com/6xfdo ps: Yes, I've posted my own ebay ads to this list, but some of you may be happy to know that I've just 'retired' from ebay selling. To the rest, Thank you for your support. =) http://members.ebay.com/ws2/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=*seek* --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org