IDM Mailing Archive

http://news.bostonherald.com/national/view.bg?articleid=43259 What a bunch of killjoys they are in the 6th Circuit Court of Appeals. This is a call to arms: Everyone needs to make a track made ENTIRELY of uncleared samples. The new ruling basically says that samples of ANY length need to be licensed. So you could, for example, take a recording, and make notes out of single cycle samples, and it would be illegal. If you feel, as I do, that creative sampling is a integral part of the art of modern music making, this is, in effect, a gag order on a large number of artists who are not simply biting the work of others. When sampling is outlawed, only outlaws will be sampling. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

What they fail to always recognize is that it's all well and good you should pay for all the samples, but that the degree of paperwork, research, combined with the high chance that you'll get turned down anyway make it an extremely frustrating prospect. We're actually one of those crazy labels that clears samples, and believe me it's not easy. If the process was simpler, ie. say there was a central payment point you could pay to clear any sample with no arguments/denials and it was as easy as paying a per unit pressed rate for anything you wanted to use I think the big wigs would be surprised at how honest people would be about paying and how much money that would generate. If the artist flat out didn't want to be sampled then they could refuse to have their work as part of the data-base. So at least you knew from the get go if you could use it, and it allows for some protection for the original composer. I know that's overly simplified and there would be loads of other stuff to consider, but it's a million dollar idea if people would get off their ass and stop being so precious about copyright. Make the process simple, and people will pay. Most people don't want to be thieving, it's just that no one has presented them with a legit option. Jeff On 8-Sep-04, at 3:10 PM, Kent Williams wrote:

quoted 20 lines > http://news.bostonherald.com/national/view.bg?articleid=43259 > > What a bunch of killjoys they are in the 6th Circuit Court of Appeals. > > This is a call to arms: Everyone needs to make a track made ENTIRELY > of uncleared samples. The new ruling basically says that samples of > ANY length need to be licensed. So you could, for example, take a > recording, and make notes out of single cycle samples, and it would be > illegal. > > If you feel, as I do, that creative sampling is a integral part of the > art of modern music making, this is, in effect, a gag order on a large > number of artists who are not simply biting the work of others. > > When sampling is outlawed, only outlaws will be sampling. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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[Jeff/Ninja Tune <jeff@ninjatune.net>]

quoted 5 lines What they fail to always recognize is that it's all well and good you

> What they fail to always recognize is that it's all well and good you > should pay for all the samples, but that the degree of paperwork, > research, combined with the high chance that you'll get turned down > anyway make it an extremely frustrating prospect. We're actually one of > those crazy labels that clears samples, and believe me it's not easy.

It's still strange to me that somebody can deny you the right to sample their work, but can't deny you the right to do a cover. That always struck me as odd. -- :: atomly :: [ atomly@atomly.com : www.atomly.com ... [ atomiq records : po box 805319 chicago il 60680 : 312.804.5389 ... [ e-mail atomly-news-subscribe@atomly.com for atomly info and updates ... --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Wednesday, September 8, 2004, at 02:30 PM, Jeff/Ninja Tune wrote:

quoted 7 lines What they fail to always recognize is that it's all well and good you

> What they fail to always recognize is that it's all well and good you > should pay for all the samples, but that the degree of paperwork, > research, combined with the high chance that you'll get turned down > anyway make it an extremely frustrating prospect. We're actually one > of those crazy labels that clears samples, and believe me it's not > easy. >

Yep. Much like the 'safer raves' rules laid down in Toronto 4-5 years ago, this will effectively force any artist/label out of the market that can't afford the money and/or time to clear everything. No more DIY, yo. yikes, Luis --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

at the same time, the responsibility for pursuing copyright infringement rests with the owner of the piece being sampled, however complicated that ownership may be. regardless of all the money-grubbing lawyers out there trying to make money by tracking down artists whose samples were used and filing suits on their behalf, someone first has to actually recognize the sample, then determine where it came from. in other words, either sample from the vast library of recordings old enough to have entered the public domain, alter the sample enough to make it unrecognizable, or sample from records only released in their native countries - like thailand or japan - provided that you don't actually release the music in that country, lawsuits become complicated and difficult to pursue. programs like ableton live & pluggo provide the user with the opportunity to make practically any sound out of any other sound. use them... and once you mix the track down, delete all your temporary files, so your hard drive can't be used as evidence. of course, if you're only gonna put out a few hundred copies of a record, you can do whatever you want - just don't put your real name, address, or personal email on there. unsolicited advice from John Quincy Adding Machine... --- Luis-Manuel Garcia <lgarcia@uchicago.edu> wrote:

quoted 24 lines On Wednesday, September 8, 2004, at 02:30 PM, Jeff/Ninja Tune wrote:

> > On Wednesday, September 8, 2004, at 02:30 PM, Jeff/Ninja Tune wrote: > > > What they fail to always recognize is that it's all well and good you > > should pay for all the samples, but that the degree of paperwork, > > research, combined with the high chance that you'll get turned down > > anyway make it an extremely frustrating prospect. We're actually one > > of those crazy labels that clears samples, and believe me it's not > > easy. > > > Yep. Much like the 'safer raves' rules laid down in Toronto 4-5 years > ago, this will effectively force any artist/label out of the market > that can't afford the money and/or time to clear everything. No more > DIY, yo. > > yikes, > Luis > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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On 8 Sep 2004, at 20:30, Jeff/Ninja Tune wrote:

quoted 4 lines We're actually one of those crazy labels that clears samples, and

> We're actually one of those crazy labels that clears samples, and > believe me it's not easy. > >

The $100 question: Which Ninja Tune artist, known to frequently use un-cleared samples, was sampled by George Michael, without clearing, and later used to provide a large amount of money to the coffers? I believe the irony being that the album said sample was taken from featured numerous un-cleared samples ... though maybe that's hearsay ;-) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

[muffin <muffin@signmytits.com>]

quoted 5 lines The $100 question: Which Ninja Tune artist, known to frequently use

> The $100 question: Which Ninja Tune artist, known to frequently use > un-cleared samples, was sampled by George Michael, without clearing, > and later used to provide a large amount of money to the coffers? I > believe the irony being that the album said sample was taken from > featured numerous un-cleared samples ... though maybe that's hearsay

Well, he sampled DJ Food, but I don't know anything about George Michael filling Patrick Carpenter's coffers-- what they do behind closed doors is their own business. -- :: atomly :: [ atomly@atomly.com : www.atomly.com ... [ atomiq records : po box 805319 chicago il 60680 : 312.804.5389 ... [ e-mail atomly-news-subscribe@atomly.com for atomly info and updates ... --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 ColonyUndaground@aol.com wrote:

quoted 5 lines piss on that, i'll sample ja-rule just to piss him off, i will then

> piss on that, i'll sample ja-rule just to piss him off, i will then > personally insult him and dare him to sue my broke ass. long live dangermouse > > nj > colony

Then you could totally challenge him to a duel at high noon. Settle this whole sampling fiasco like real men. / wells oliver // wells@submute.net / http://www.submute.net --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

jeff@ninjatune.net wrote ... "We're actually one of those crazy labels that clears samples, and believe me it's not easy." What is the process for clearing samples? I'm working on a new album and I'm thinking about clearing the few that I used. How much do you usually pay to use a sample, or does it vary? The thing I'm worried about is if they say no, I'm fucked and I probably would have gotten away with it in the first place, but my label is presently in the process of trying to settle a lawsuit by the owners of Dick and Jane books, so I'm not feeling like trying to slip one by the lawyers lately. Thank you for your info, it's much appreciated! Mike Jedlicka Dick and Jane Records www.dickandjanerecords.com (All of the website except for the homepage is presently down thanks to Pearson Education/Wesely-Addison's lawyers!)