IDM Mailing Archive

quoted 9 lines Y'know, even when I was a hardcore rivethead back in the 80s, I never

> >Y'know, even when I was a hardcore rivethead back in the 80s, I never >really liked FLA. Leeb was such a blatant rip-off artist right from the >beginning. > >Before he'd even released anything as FLA, a friend dubbed me a copy of his >first solo demo tapes, and they were a complete burn of the stuff Skinny >Puppy was doing while he was a member. From then on, it's been one rip-off >after another.

i didn't know it was that bad. maybe i just don't get all the sample sources. really early FLA was just utterly generic and boring. however, i do quite enjoy the FLA albums "caustic grip", "tactical neural implant", "hard wired" and "implode", and the delerium albums "stone tower", "spiritual archives" and "spheres". the rest, well...erg. d. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

At 01:29 PM 5/11/2004, chthonic wrote:

quoted 8 lines Before he'd even released anything as FLA, a friend dubbed me a copy of his

> >Before he'd even released anything as FLA, a friend dubbed me a copy of his > >first solo demo tapes, and they were a complete burn of the stuff Skinny > >Puppy was doing while he was a member. From then on, it's been one rip-off > >after another. > >i didn't know it was that bad. maybe i just don't get all the sample >sources. >really early FLA was just utterly generic and boring.

Well, yeah, there's that as well. And when I call Leeb a "rip-off artist", I don't mean that he literally sampled every note he's ever recorded. There are a good number of samples (some more obvious than others), but a lot of it is more a generally lack of originality. Everything seems to be stylistically derived from something that someone else did better in the past. Greg :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Greg Clow ::: greg@stainedproductions.com ::::::::: concert & event promotions ::: http://www.stainedproductions.com :::::: electronic music radio & reviews ::: http://www.feedbackmonitor.com ::: electronic/experimental record label ::: http://www.pieheadrecords.com ::::::::: 158 Close Ave. 2nd Floor ::: Toronto, Ontario M6K 2V5 ::: Canada --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Greg Clow <greg@stainedproductions.com> Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:43:37 -0400

quoted 11 lines i didn't know it was that bad. maybe i just don't get all the sample

>>i didn't know it was that bad. maybe i just don't get all the sample >>sources. >>really early FLA was just utterly generic and boring. > >Well, yeah, there's that as well. > >And when I call Leeb a "rip-off artist", I don't mean that he literally >sampled every note he's ever recorded. There are a good number of samples >(some more obvious than others), but a lot of it is more a generally lack >of originality. Everything seems to be stylistically derived from something >that someone else did better in the past.

sure, i guess a lot of it was based on early skinny puppy and front 242, the first revco, ministry's "twitch". but they somehow distilled those things into something recognizably FLA. unfortunately, now FLA themselves have become an influence by their ubiquity and consistency, and now even worse industrial/EBM/"coldwave" is derived from it, while adding nothing new. d. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: max0666 <max0666@cox.net> Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:31:57 -0500

quoted 11 lines sure, i guess a lot of it was based on early skinny puppy and front 242, the

>> sure, i guess a lot of it was based on early skinny puppy and front 242, the >> first >> revco, ministry's "twitch". but they somehow distilled those things into >> something >> recognizably FLA. unfortunately, now FLA themselves have become an >> influence by their ubiquity and consistency, and now even worse >> industrial/EBM/"coldwave" is derived from it, while adding nothing new. > >And all these "artists" were replicants as well, flogging a dead >horse.....they grabbed somebody else's flag and waved it like it was their >own.

you mean puppy, 242, and the like? whose flag are you saying they stole? TG? SPK? kraftwerk? i'd argue those 80's artists did not simply steal the work of the 70's pioneers, but turned it into something else, a morphing if you will. a bit more original than later cases of photocopying, although it is wrong to call it by the same name "industrial" like everybody does, but that's just another case of misnomers becoming popular. d. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 12 lines you mean puppy, 242, and the like? whose flag are you saying they stole?

> you mean puppy, 242, and the like? whose flag are you saying they stole? > TG? SPK? kraftwerk? > > i'd argue those 80's artists did not simply steal the work of the 70's > pioneers, but > turned it into something else, a morphing if you will. a bit more original > than > later cases of photocopying, although it is wrong to call it by the same name > "industrial" like everybody does, but that's just another case of misnomers > becoming popular. > > d.

Argument validated...early on there was some interesting energy there, but it morphed into a pierced up, grungy nightmare, that in essence "photocopied" itself. it became a biblical epic where genesis begat, begat begat....way too many children. and i don't mean P'Orridge, but you are what you eat. a very limited diet...... --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org