IDM Mailing Archive

2003-03-11 22:12John Hagerwell if i stole a copy of 'Thriller' from Walmart he wouldn't go looking for it either, bu

From:: John Hager <HagerJW@Healthall.com>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 17:12:38 -0500
Subject:: Re: [idm] Indie Ethics

well if i stole a copy of 'Thriller' from Walmart he wouldn't go looking for it either, but he would suffer a financial loss for that item. the cd that MJ sells for money in your music store is a mass produced COPY that is offered to the public to own a copy for a price.... MJ is not offering mp3 copies for free. otherwise he wouldn't copyright and sell the cd. the copy of the music, is what your taking from MJ, knowing he's not offering it for free. that fact that you have it in mp3 format instead of a cd still doesn't change the fact you that you took a copy of his music without paying for it or authorization. john

quoted 1 line Josh Steiner <joschi@eds.org> 03/11/03 04:35PM >>>

>>> Josh Steiner <joschi@eds.org> 03/11/03 04:35PM >>>

really? stealing implies that you *take* something from someone, if i download an mp3 of thriller, does michael jackson spend an hour digging through his record collection trying to find the copy that i "stole" from him? intellectual property is a broken concept. c wrote:

quoted 9 lines i guess stealing would be a more appropiate term.

>i guess stealing would be a more appropiate term. > > > >C Twomey wrote: > > > >>I'd like to point out that "pirating" is the term the RIAA/music biz

has given to file

quoted 1 line sharing/downloading. Previously "pirating" was the unlicensed

>>sharing/downloading. Previously "pirating" was the unlicensed

manufacture of hit records

quoted 1 line for retail - like someone in South America copying Michael Jackson

>>for retail - like someone in South America copying Michael Jackson

records and importing

quoted 1 line them cheaply into the US. Now RIAA is trying to brand fans/consumers

>>them cheaply into the US. Now RIAA is trying to brand fans/consumers

as pirates which is

quoted 6 lines wrong by definition and just plain stupid as a strategy. - CT

>>wrong by definition and just plain stupid as a strategy. - CT >> >>John Reading wrote: >> >> >>>>I'd like to see a show of hands of people that don't priate on

this

quoted 15 lines list.

>>>>list. >>>> >>>> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >>For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >> >> > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

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2003-03-11 22:25Josh SteinerJohn Hager wrote: >well if i stole a copy of 'Thriller' from >Walmart he wouldn't go looki

From:: Josh Steiner <joschi@eds.org>
To:: John Hager <HagerJW@Healthall.com>
Cc:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 14:25:40 -0800
Subject:: Re: [idm] Indie Ethics
Reply to:: Re: [idm] Indie Ethics

John Hager wrote:

quoted 4 lines well if i stole a copy of 'Thriller' from

>well if i stole a copy of 'Thriller' from >Walmart he wouldn't go looking for it either, >but he would suffer a financial loss for that item. >

*exactly* ... stealing a copy from tower deprives tower of 1 cd that they paid money for, its plain indefensible theft... so explain how downloading some data from another random person *deprives* tower of anyhting? before you suggest that M.J. looses the money that he would have gotten had i bought the record, remember that i would rather die before i bought a MJ album :) the futures argument doesnt hold much water.

quoted 12 lines the cd that MJ sells for money in your music

>the cd that MJ sells for money in your music >store is a mass produced COPY that is offered >to the public to own a copy for a price.... >MJ is not offering mp3 copies for free. >otherwise he wouldn't copyright and sell the cd. >the copy of the music, is what your taking >from MJ, knowing he's not offering it for free. >that fact that you have it in mp3 >format instead of a cd still doesn't change the fact >you that you took a copy of his music without paying for it >or authorization. >

so there we go, now we've moved past the theft, MJ has not been deprived of anything, so what you are now venturing into is what right do i have to listen to something without paying... well, do i owe michael jackson money if i stand outside my neighbors window as he's rockin out to the '85 sounds? afterall, i'm listening to MJ's music and he isnt offering free performances in my neighborhood. no, thats rediculous. michael has no right to collect money because his concepts enter my brain. the burden of proof is on the accusor in this society, and i just have yet to see a compelling argument explaining how my listening to a song depreives anyone of anything.

quoted 95 lines john

> >john > > > > > > > >>>>Josh Steiner <joschi@eds.org> 03/11/03 04:35PM >>> >>>> >>>> >really? stealing implies that you *take* something from someone, if i > >download an mp3 of thriller, does michael jackson spend an hour digging > >through his record collection trying to find the copy that i "stole" >from him? > >intellectual property is a broken concept. > >c wrote: > > > >>i guess stealing would be a more appropiate term. >> >> >> >>C Twomey wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>>I'd like to point out that "pirating" is the term the RIAA/music biz >>> >>> >has given to file > > >>>sharing/downloading. Previously "pirating" was the unlicensed >>> >>> >manufacture of hit records > > >>>for retail - like someone in South America copying Michael Jackson >>> >>> >records and importing > > >>>them cheaply into the US. Now RIAA is trying to brand fans/consumers >>> >>> >as pirates which is > > >>>wrong by definition and just plain stupid as a strategy. - CT >>> >>>John Reading wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>I'd like to see a show of hands of people that don't priate on >>>>> >>>>> >this > > >>>>>list. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >>>For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >>> >>> >>> >>> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >>For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >> >> >> >> > > > >

Re: [idm] Indie Ethics