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With ALL do respect, I don't know how that can be a policy considering music reflects life and can therefore be political. Think of all the songs that helped people live through wars, occupations,ghetto roundups.... or mobilised them to revolution. I can'ts see how anyone can limit ANY well rounded discussion with rules of things not to be talked about, especially on INTELLIGENT dance music list. "Hypocrisy is the greates luxury"....human life is at stake here, I think that might be a little more important than some IDM list "rules"

quoted 33 lines From: "brian" <clickpop@hyperreal.org>

>From: "brian" <clickpop@hyperreal.org> >To: <idm@hyperreal.org> >Subject: [idm] political posts. >Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 06:27:47 -0800 > >from the list policies page at >http://music.hyperreal.org/lists/idm/policy.html > >"One final word about stuff... it. Spams, get-rich-quick schemes, >commercial >advertising, virus alerts, alerts and calls-to-action of a political >nature, >harrassment, >or any other disruptive, off-topic posts will not be tolerated." > >I understand that many of us have strong feelings about the current >direction >of the US government, myself included, but this is the wrong list to >discuss >it on. >Please take these conversations elsewhere. > >Thank you. > >Brian >clickpop@hyperreal.org >idm-admin > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

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no wonder i left this stupid list a long time ago, time to leave again *shakes head* On Wednesday, February 5, 2003, at 02:35 PM, doeznot allow wrote:

quoted 14 lines With ALL do respect,

> With ALL do respect, > > I don't know how that can be a policy considering music reflects life > and can therefore be political. > > Think of all the songs that helped people live through wars, > occupations,ghetto roundups.... or mobilised them to revolution. > > I can'ts see how anyone can limit ANY well rounded discussion with > rules of things not to be talked about, especially on INTELLIGENT > dance music list. > > "Hypocrisy is the greates luxury"....human life is at stake here, I > think that might be a little more important than some IDM list "rules"

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quoted 5 lines With ALL do respect,

>With ALL do respect, > >I don't know how that can be a policy considering music reflects >life and can therefore be political. >

Music can be political. I'd imagine talking about the politics of a particular music piece or album would be fine. Bringing up politics that have no direct relation to IDM nor any of its artists, but rather a small subset of those subscribed to a list discussing it is indeed off-topic, though. Saying "Autechre are opposed to this bill against live performance" and the implications of that are understandable, if I understand correctly. That at least relates directly to music. Saying "Hi, I'm subscribed to this list, and I think about all these political things without any IDM content, or rather any musical content whatsoever" is frowned upon. I don't care about your hobby horse or your personal, non-musically related politics. If I was, I'd subscribe to a politics list. Unless, of course, you think if we all talked about how wonderful breathing is, or eating. Which are significantly more important parts of life. music, music, music... derek -- eggytoast.com -------------- commerce soon: eggtastic.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 1 line I may regret this...

>I may regret this...

We bow to you, O scions of musical purity...might be

quoted 13 lines a fucking world war,

> a fucking world war, > just don't raise the subject in the wrong forum! > > Don't like clutter on your music list? I understand, > really I do. But we all > have our definitions of noise (e-flyers for parties > 6 of us might be within > 50 miles of, discussions about list deiscussions, > etc), and there's always > going to be some on this list. > > Matt >

Well im glad someone said it. Anyway getting killed in a world war isn't really *just* party politics. Its something we all need to worry about. A lot. If you want to make it relvant to IDM do an IDM protest song or something I don't know, it just might be a little hard to ignore soon. -Thomas extra added musical content; now playing: Anthony Manning - Chromium Nebulae Playing Next: Coil - Scatology __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 3 lines Well im glad someone said it. Anyway getting killed in

>Well im glad someone said it. Anyway getting killed in >a world war isn't really *just* party politics. Its >something we all need to worry about. A lot.

Then worry about it. Join a political list, where people want to talk about it, where people want to organize and donate money. Talk to them about getting the word out and getting other people involved. No one's saying you can't be on multiple lists at once. Being spammy and solicitous on non-political email lists is probably one of the best ways to make people run away from your platform and your political ideas. Far away. If you're so worried about people getting killed and wars, I'd imagine you'd take it a bit more seriously and think about what you're saying and, more importantly, who you're saying it to. derek -- eggytoast.com -------------- commerce soon: eggtastic.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

http://www.opendemocracy.net seems to be what's in order. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I've been on this list since 1995. I'd rather see a few emails with substance than many of the dumb ass threads I've seen on this list. I see no harm if a few emails regarding this impending world crisis. No one is trying to hijack the list and change the topic, everyone has been respectful. So I'm sorry if this "annoyance" took you away from your fake Autechre tracks thread. --- EggyToast <eggy@eggytoast.com> wrote:

quoted 31 lines Well im glad someone said it. Anyway getting killed

> >Well im glad someone said it. Anyway getting killed > in > >a world war isn't really *just* party politics. Its > >something we all need to worry about. A lot. > > Then worry about it. Join a political list, where > people want to > talk about it, where people want to organize and > donate money. Talk > to them about getting the word out and getting other > people involved. > No one's saying you can't be on multiple lists at > once. > > Being spammy and solicitous on non-political email > lists is probably > one of the best ways to make people run away from > your platform and > your political ideas. Far away. If you're so > worried about people > getting killed and wars, I'd imagine you'd take it a > bit more > seriously and think about what you're saying and, > more importantly, > who you're saying it to. > > derek > -- > eggytoast.com > -------------- > commerce soon: eggtastic.com

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At 02:40 PM 2/5/2003 -0800, you wrote:

quoted 6 lines I've been on this list since 1995. I'd rather see a

>I've been on this list since 1995. I'd rather see a >few emails with substance than many of the dumb ass >threads I've seen on this list. I see no harm if a few >emails regarding this impending world crisis. No one >is trying to hijack the list and change the topic, >everyone has been respectful.

I've been on this list for quite some time, too. I don't think seniority has anything to do with it, but I'd also rather see emails with substance instead of dumb-ass threads. Political threads, especially the kind being posted here, do not have "substance." They're very often ill-informed and extremely over the top, which not only hurts the serious attempts at changing political opinion, it spreads ignorance about what's truly going on in the world. A few punters arguing about "World war 3" when there isn't even a war declaration in *any* of these countries is useless ballyhoo. They're as bad as that fake "UN petition." Such politics are worse than fake autechre tracks. derek ------- eggytoast.com ------- coming soon: eggtastic.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

--- EggyToast <eggy@eggytoast.com> wrote: < I've been on this list for quite some time, too. I don't think seniority has anything to do with it, but I'd also rather see emails with substance instead of dumb-ass threads.> I never said seniority had anything to do with anything. It's more about witnessing the decline of this list and the ratio between useful interesting posts and totally useless moronic ones. How useless were the Boards Of Canada gay insinuations, or the hundreds of other equally dumb threads that fill up our mailboxes. If people want to talk about music cool, if on a rare occasion they happen to want to get something off their chest and see if other people on this list feel the same way. I'm supportive of that too. < Political threads, especially the kind being posted here, do not have "substance." > Maybe more substance than the average post on IDM. <They're very often ill-informed and extremely over the top, which not only hurts the serious attempts at changing political opinion, it spreads ignorance about what's truly going on in the world. > I don't think I've seen any posts that have demonstrated anyone being "ill-informed", or anything of a serious nature that would spread ignorance. I think the posts were more about getting informed on the issues. < A few punters arguing about "World war 3" when there isn't even a war declaration in *any* of these countries is useless ballyhoo. They're as bad as that fake "UN petition." > It's quite obvious that this war is going to happen, because Bush doesn't want to look weak and he has spent a fortune of the taxpayers money mobilizing for war. < Such politics are worse than fake autechre tracks.> Useless threads __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 11 lines I may regret this...

>I may regret this... > > >We bow to you, O scions of musical purity...might be a fucking world war, >just don't raise the subject in the wrong forum! > >Don't like clutter on your music list? I understand, really I do. But we all >have our definitions of noise (e-flyers for parties 6 of us might be within >50 miles of, discussions about list deiscussions, etc), and there's always >going to be some on this list. >

There's quite a difference betwixt clutter and randomness. Sure, the constant live-show announcements for everywhere but here are a pain in the ass, but at least they're electronic and "idm-ey." I haven't seen a pop/rock flyer, and, sure, we get spammed by prog-trance crap sometimes but that's inevitable. Same with playlists. I never listen to them, but others do, and they're all about stuff on this list. There are the occasional odd songs on the lists, sure, but predominantly they're "IDM." Even eBay auctions are predominantly "idm." If I want IDM content, I come here. If I want news and political commentary, I go somewhere else. If there's going to be a world war, I'd hear about it first somewhere other than the IDM list. If the IDM list is someone's only source to the outside world, they have bigger problems than discussing politics. derek -- eggytoast.com -------------- commerce soon: eggtastic.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

From: "doeznot allow"

quoted 9 lines With ALL do respect,

> With ALL do respect, > I don't know how that can be a policy considering music reflects life and > can therefore be political. > Think of all the songs that helped people live through wars, > occupations,ghetto roundups.... or mobilised them to revolution. > I can'ts see how anyone can limit ANY well rounded discussion with rules of > things not to be talked about, especially on INTELLIGENT dance music list. > "Hypocrisy is the greates luxury"....human life is at stake here, I think > that might be a little more important than some IDM list "rules"

Indeed! Such rules of conduct regarding 'correct' discussion in artistic forums are to be expected from the Bush-leaguers: http://snurl.com/pzm First Lady Laura Bush's decision to cancel a White House symposium on the poetry of Walt Whitman, Emily Dickinson and Langston Hughes because she feared antiwar sentiments might be expressed has provoked a pummeling of the Administration by poets who would have been part of the February 12 "Poetry and the American Voice" session. More: http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/02052003/news/11296.htm or http://snurl.com/pzl and: http://www.rabble.ca/columnists_full.shtml?x=18690 http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2003/02/1569834.php =seek= --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Lets talk about DISPOSABLE HEROES OF HYPOCRISY then. That's music right? ok so I like these lyrics. Life these days can be so complex we don't make the time to stop and relfect I know from first hand experience one can go delerious seriously it can be like that But before I put my foot in my mouth 'cause that's what I'm about to start talkin about please let me confess before all the rest that I'm afflicted by this addicted like most in the US It's tough to make a living when you're an artist It's even tougher when you're socially conscious Careerism, opportunism can turn the politics into cartoonism Let's not patronize or criticize Let's open the door and look inside Pull the file on the state of denial Hypocrisy is the Greatest Luxury Raise the Double Standard The bass, the treble Don't make a rebel Havin' your life together does AMERICA has an image of a young one fast livin' not give an expletive no respect for his or the lives of those around him Suicidal, homicidal or at very least extremely unbridled How convenient for those who would like to destroy him The problem has never been our political logic but the way we enact it We can imagine a perfect society but can't maintain a decent relationship The failure found in the luxuries not in the hardships Hypocrisy is the Greatest Luxury Raise the Double Standard

quoted 43 lines From: EggyToast <eggy@eggytoast.com>

>From: EggyToast <eggy@eggytoast.com> >To: idm@hyperreal.org >Subject: [idm] re:political posts >Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 15:05:47 -0500 > >>With ALL do respect, >> >>I don't know how that can be a policy considering music reflects life and >>can therefore be political. >> > >Music can be political. I'd imagine talking about the politics of a >particular music piece or album would be fine. > >Bringing up politics that have no direct relation to IDM nor any of its >artists, but rather a small subset of those subscribed to a list discussing >it is indeed off-topic, though. > >Saying "Autechre are opposed to this bill against live performance" and the >implications of that are understandable, if I understand correctly. That >at least relates directly to music. > >Saying "Hi, I'm subscribed to this list, and I think about all these >political things without any IDM content, or rather any musical content >whatsoever" is frowned upon. I don't care about your hobby horse or your >personal, non-musically related politics. If I was, I'd subscribe to a >politics list. > > >Unless, of course, you think if we all talked about how wonderful breathing >is, or eating. Which are significantly more important parts of life. > >music, music, music... > >derek >-- >eggytoast.com >-------------- >commerce soon: eggtastic.com > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

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On Wed, 05 Feb 2003 20:19:51 +0000 "doeznot allow" <skitzobiatch@hotmail.com> wrote:

quoted 3 lines Lets talk about DISPOSABLE HEROES OF HYPOCRISY then.

>Lets talk about DISPOSABLE HEROES OF HYPOCRISY then. > >That's music right? ok so I like these lyrics.

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eat shit. we get bombarded with this crap everyday on the news, 24/7. we need a break from it. music is for pleasure imo. sure i don't want war but this is crap. no other list i'm on posts this shit if you want, why don't you post a nice little link to anti-war sites in a signature file, much more effective imo, well maybe not since i'm sure you've already pissed enough people off and got the attention you needed On Wednesday, February 5, 2003, at 03:22 PM, doeznot allow wrote:

quoted 2 lines BYE! I'll miss you too....

> BYE! I'll miss you too.... >

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fair enough. however: political discussions on this list *always* degenerate into namecalling, foul language, and generally childish behavior. if i felt that constructive political discussion could happen on this list...i would consider it, however, judging by some of the names that i've been called today as a result of my post, we're not ready for that. besides, i would hope that most of the members of this list are conscious enough to see exactly what is going on around them without someone else screaming it at them. long, political diatribes sent to a list comprised of people with (probably?) very similar political views quickly becomes verbal masturbation. lastly, whining about the world situation on a small email list about music is, essentially, a waste of time. if you believe in what you are spouting, don't sit around here and preach to the choir...get out and do something productive. the list policies stand. please email me privately with any comments or questions. brian clickpop@hyperreal.org idm-admin ----- Original Message ----- From: doeznot allow <skitzobiatch@hotmail.com> To: <clickpop@hyperreal.org> Cc: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 11:35 AM Subject: [idm] re:political posts

quoted 9 lines With ALL do respect,

> With ALL do respect, > > I don't know how that can be a policy considering music reflects life and > can therefore be political. > > Think of all the songs that helped people live through wars, > occupations,ghetto roundups.... or mobilised them to revolution. > > I can'ts see how anyone can limit ANY well rounded discussion with rules

of

quoted 5 lines things not to be talked about, especially on INTELLIGENT dance music list.

> things not to be talked about, especially on INTELLIGENT dance music list. > > "Hypocrisy is the greates luxury"....human life is at stake here, I think > that might be a little more important than some IDM list "rules" >

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