IDM Mailing Archive

quoted 4 lines Sure; but the fact that a small fraction of the global music-buying

> Sure; but the fact that a small fraction of the global music-buying > population can choose to use P2P to acquire some fraction of the music they > want doesn't mean that record labels are now obsolete, which was the original > assertion.

I'd argue that while they are not yet obsolete, their business model will quickly become so. Broadband will become ubiquitous, like pagers and cell phones have (even in the very poor places listed earlier). My guess is that P2P music options will continue to multiply and become easier to use. While there is something physical to browsing at the record store, but it can be done in a not-too-dissimilar (maybe even more advantageous) way with P2P and various on-line review sites like allmusic.com. The advantages to consumers to buy physical CDs are quickly disappearing. It's clear that record labels have expenses that are quickly exceeding their profit. P2P is a major contributor to that trend. Labels have already begun to die; Strictly Rhythm, one of the largest house labels, is one of the first. There will be many more. http://www.discjockey101.com/oct2002.html “* Strictly Rhythm/Groovilicious Records closed its doors on October 2, 2002. According to their press release, the dance label was affected by the current state of the economy, as well as lost revenue due to Internet downloading/CD burning.” While there are kind people on this list who respect the contributions of artists to our society, the majority of music consumers (like the majority of all consumers) want to get the product for less. From Early to Rise, 783- Defeating The Persistent Disintegration of Profits: “DEFEATING THE PERSISTENT DISINTEGRATION OF PROFITS Something to ponder: All your clients, customers, and employees have a hidden mission -- and that is to reduce your profits to zero. It is a cynical thought, but it's true. The moment you let up on the pressure to produce, sell, save, and improve, your bottom line will begin to shrink. If you let up on it long enough, all the profits will eventually seep out of your good business. Consider this: * The primary personal goal of each customer is to get the most from you and pay the least amount to you.” This is a problem not only for the record industry but for American and European companies in general. The above writer is an extremely successful businessman writing for other businesses. Look at how many manufacturers are left in the US; most left long ago, and more and more spring up in China. Record labels will have to alter their business model to stay in existence. Selling CDs, with the attendant publicity and distribution system, is clearly an inefficient model. The choices are adopt a new business model, find a way to slash expenses, or disappear. I think there is some potential to subscription services, but their cost will have to be incredibly low. They will also have to add considerable value to their subscribers. Hip-hop artists have already found that endorsements can be a strong source of revenue. Live performance can (though definitely not always) also provide revenue to artists. Peripheral merchandise (t-shirts, bags, posters) have long been an additional source of revenue. Anyone have others to add to the list? What about new ways that haven't been thought of? Jeff, are you at liberty to tell us about Ninjatune's plan to weather the storm? What about you, Philippe? What about the other label people on this list? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 9 lines Hip-hop artists have already found that endorsements can be a strong source of

>Hip-hop artists have already found that endorsements can be a strong source of >revenue. Live performance can (though definitely not always) also provide >revenue to artists. Peripheral merchandise (t-shirts, bags, posters) have long >been an additional source of revenue. Anyone have others to add to the list? >What about new ways that haven't been thought of? > >Jeff, are you at liberty to tell us about Ninjatune's plan to weather the >storm? What about you, Philippe? What about the other label people on this >list?

I just wonder how much of a storm there will be for the little guys. A lot of the money "lost" in huge companies can be chalked up to mismatched promotional budgets compared to the actual sales of CD's. A giant record label will pay record stations to play their song (although not directly, but they still do it), buy commercial time on telly, pay MTV to give it a high rating in their rating shows and to play it a lot when they actually get around to playing videos, and so on. That takes a LOT of money, and nearly all of the payout is dependent on record sales. Small labels don't have that sort of budget, so they simply put out a record. They hype it up, sure, but usually via mailing lists, perhaps a few flyers or posters to record stores, maybe some free promo copies to key reviewers. Doing that is *not* expensive -- I could conceivably manage it monetarily, and I don't make a heck of a lot of money. The downside is that they are reliant on what gets sent to them, and they don't have the resources to get a new sound "made" for them -- they either have to say "we're looking for an X sound" or simply hope something good gets send to them. But the promotional costs for a small label are miniscule compared to a giant superlabel. That Robbie Williams thing, where he'd have to sell 18 million albums to recoup costs, isn't something that even small "idm" artists worry about. Selling 100-200 albums covers most of the costs, and larger albums (ones that are guaranteed more sales based on past performance, not just promotions) generally get more press. Making a working wage off of a CD while having a small label isn't difficult, and the "pinch" of p2p probably won't affect that for a long time, if ever. People still like buying a product, and if you can get people convinced that a few files on their computer are the same as a jewel case with art and liner notes, with the music on a tangible, visible disk, well, I'll give ya $20 :) I'm really doubtful that a lot of the big record industry fallout will affect the little people, like nearly *all of us on the list*. Sure, Sony is pushing for DRM on their disks, but is Ninja Tune or Warp? Log on to Kazaalite and type in a lesser-known IDM guy. I just tried "Richard Devine" and I got back 2 tracks. I don't think that's hurting Devine's sales much. I got more responses for "Mr Scruff," but it was all from 2 people (and I already own the Mr Scruff albums :P ) and Mr Scruff is actually a pretty popular guy. Mostly, the smaller labels just need to ask their fans for support, saying "hey, our artists get the lion's share of the profits from their albums, so buying their albums actually helps them. Can you buy them if you like 'em, please?" And it works! Most fans know that small labels and small artists are likely to stop putting out music if they don't get enough funding, so they're much more likely to buy an "indie" album compared to one from a giant megacorp with accounting scandals :) Imagine that. Justify the reason for buying and then ask nicely :) Erecting barriers will just cause people to circumvent the barriers. Appealing to guilt works 9 times out of 11 :) derek ------- eggytoast.com ------- coming soon: eggtastic.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 2 lines Jeff, are you at liberty to tell us about Ninjatune's plan to weather the

> Jeff, are you at liberty to tell us about Ninjatune's plan to weather the > storm? What about you, Philippe? What about the other label people on this list?

well, I want to avoid to get involved in that discussion, on my end all the people I work with are happy with my efforts to spread their talent, they need a label so some people do. some labels aren't involved to rip off their artist, I try my best to share my passion and issue nicely packaged records. still enough peoplee buy our records and express their satisfaction so I'm not seing the end of it... mind you. philippe | 0000 \\\\.. \\\\ __ http://www.bip-hop.com _---| 0000 \\\\..\\\\ ==> contemporary electronica challenging the ears and the mind ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- a parallel music for perpendicular feelings http://www.pandemoniumrecords.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I'll be hiding in that pile of coats over there... Realistically anything that's going on is far bigger then me and there's not much I can do about it. We're just going to keep releasing what we want to release, look for some alternate income streams (note...if you're downloading stuff for free, you're not allowed to criticize when artists put music in commercials), and hope people still drop some dough on recorded music in one form or another. Barring that we're turning the whole thing into a porn business because that always makes money. Look, it's still music first money second, but things just don't magically appear for free. Everyone's got bills to pay. Jeff

quoted 42 lines From: philippe-petit <philippe-petit@wanadoo.fr>

> From: philippe-petit <philippe-petit@wanadoo.fr> > Organization: BiP-HOp > Reply-To: philippe-petit@wanadoo.fr > Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 03:30:45 +0100 > To: Renick Bell <the3rd2nd@yahoo.com> > Cc: idm@hyperreal.org, jeff@ninjatune.net > Subject: Re: record label business model (was) Re: who needs labels? > >> Jeff, are you at liberty to tell us about Ninjatune's plan to weather the >> storm? What about you, Philippe? What about the other label people on this >> list? > > > > > > well, I want to avoid to get involved in that discussion, on my end all the > people I > work with are happy with my efforts to spread their talent, they need a label > so some > people do. some labels aren't involved to rip off their artist, I try my best > to > share my passion and issue nicely packaged records. still enough peoplee buy > our > records and express their satisfaction so I'm not seing the end of it... mind > you. > philippe > > | 0000 \\\\.. \\\\ __ http://www.bip-hop.com _---| 0000 \\\\..\\\\ > ==> contemporary electronica challenging the ears and the mind > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ---- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ---- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ---- > > a parallel music for perpendicular feelings > http://www.pandemoniumrecords.com > >

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buy from donna summer __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org