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RE: [idm] 2003: The Year the Music Industry Dies - but who gets hurt?

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◇ merged from 3 subjects: 2003: the year the music industry dies - but who gets hurt? · 2003: the year the music industry dies - but who gets hurt? · 2003: the year the music industry dies - wired magazine, 2/2003
2003-01-17 18:09cath animon RE: [idm] 2003: The Year the Music Industry Dies - Wired Magazine, 2/2003
├─ 2003-01-17 18:39Marco Carbone RE: [idm] 2003: The Year the Music Industry Dies - but who gets hurt?
│ └─ 2003-01-17 19:56EggyToast RE: [idm] 2003: The Year the Music Industry Dies - but who gets hurt?
└─ 2003-01-17 19:16skism RE: [idm] 2003: The Year the Music Industry Dies - Wired Magazine, 2/2003
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2003-01-17 18:09cath animonthe way i see it, quite simply, if artists don't make a living from sales of hard copies o
From:
cath animon
To:
Date:
Fri, 17 Jan 2003 18:09:30 +0000
Subject:
RE: [idm] 2003: The Year the Music Industry Dies - Wired Magazine, 2/2003
permalink · <F12498dKSq2cMHlOSGs00009b7e@hotmail.com>
the way i see it, quite simply, if artists don't make a living from sales of hard copies of their work, they will ultimately have to return to life-eating day-jobs which will only destroy their potential. you can't be expected to create great music as well as catching the bus to work every morning...
quoted 76 lines From: "skism" <cazeone@ramdis.com>>From: "skism" <cazeone@ramdis.com> >Reply-To: <cazeone@ramdis.com> >To: <idm@hyperreal.org> >Subject: RE: [idm] 2003: The Year the Music Industry Dies - Wired Magazine, >2/2003 Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 19:03:24 -0000 > > >Didn't I read somewhere that the Industries loss in sales was actually due >to >a drop in production, which they tried to cover up in order to have some >ammunition for the war against p2p? > >But in the end I can't see the Industry disappearing anytime soon... Their >revenues are still huge so the worst I can see happening is a little belt >tightening or maybe the odd merger and acquisition here and there. > >What's great about capitalism is that it gives an opportunity for small >more efficient companies to adapt to new circumstances where the larger >companies are too bloated and inefficient to change in time to deal with >them. But I guess the music industry is a little different due to the >fact that it's dealing with peoples taste (or lack of), so who knows.. > >But even if they did all go bust it wouldn't be much of a problem for >most of the people on this list, who i'm sure buy much of their music >in specialist stores stocked full of independant music? > >...skism > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Brett Dietsch [mailto:elph@lawngnome.org] > > Sent: 17 January 2003 17:40 > > To: seeklektek > > Cc: idm@hyperreal.org > > Subject: Re: [idm] 2003: The Year the Music Industry Dies - Wired > > Magazine, 2/2003 > > > > > > > > On Friday, January 17, 2003, at 12:24 PM, seeklektek wrote: > > > > > > The article, in Wired's Feb.2003 issue, on newsstands now, opens with >a > > > prediction by the late Timothy White, > > > editor of Billboard, that the Music Industry will die in 2003. Aw, > > > gee: > > > wouldn't that be too bad?! ;) > > > > probably, yeah it would be. > > dont get me wrong, im not a big fan of labels and everything, but they > > are a semi-necessary evil. > > if noone buys the cd's and everyone pirates them, the companies no > > longer have any reason to put out cd's, which in turn means noone has > > cd's to pirate, which reinstates the need for cd distribution, > > which.... well.. go back to the beginning. > > > > hell yes, i pirate music. i also buy what i like and trash what i > > dont. most people just pirate music. im not pulling a moral high > > ground pose here, but seriously.. if the industry goes away, any hope > > at decent distribution will also go away. > > > > i _LIKE_ having access to artists all over the world, being able to > > find almost any genre of music, and lots that i've never heard of. no > > industry, no distribution, less choices. > > > > now, if only the industry would play nice.. > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
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2003-01-17 18:39Marco Carbone> the way i see it, quite simply, if artists don't make a living from sales of > hard copi
From:
Marco Carbone
To:
Date:
Fri, 17 Jan 2003 13:39:17 -0500 (EST)
Subject:
RE: [idm] 2003: The Year the Music Industry Dies - but who gets hurt?
Reply to:
RE: [idm] 2003: The Year the Music Industry Dies - Wired Magazine, 2/2003
permalink · <Pine.LNX.4.44.0301171313460.5209-100000@pidgin.eecs.harvard.edu>
quoted 5 lines the way i see it, quite simply, if artists don't make a living from sales of> the way i see it, quite simply, if artists don't make a living from sales of > hard copies of their work, they will ultimately have to return to > life-eating day-jobs which will only destroy their potential. > you can't be expected to create great music as well as catching the bus to > work every morning...
This will *mostly* only happen to the artists that deserve it. Let's try to loosly categorize recording artists (this isn't exhaustive): I. Untalented Artists i. No image - These artists don't have any sales anyway, so it doesn't matter. Plus, they're untalented, so they don't deserve to make a living off music. ii. Appealing image a. bad production/little ambition/little luck - No sales and no record companies means that these artists, who sometimes get rich, will flounder. And deservingly so. b. good production/ambitious/lucky - Even with minimal record sales, a few of these artists will make it and drive us nuts. But that's how the world works. They will have huge stadium shows, appear on MTV, and have their 15 minutes of fame. Perhaps they will make slightly less money in the pure digital music world, but it doesn't matter, because many will lose it all anyway by the age of 29. II. (somewhat or very) Talented Artists i. Mainstream appeal (U2, Madonna, Radiohead, Bjork, etc.) - Will continue to make loads of money by touring, movie soundtracks, etc. They are barely hurt by dropping record sales. ii. Nonmainstream appeal a. Strong fan base (Boards of Canada, Aphex Twin, Tortoise, etc) - Will make money with touring, or if they don't tour much, with album sales etc. because their fans are obsessive and will buy anything they release. They will make a complete living off this, but can't expect to be extremely well-off because, after all, they appeal to a *relatively* small group of people. b. Experimental w/ little fan support (countless examples) - Here's the tricky one. They don't appeal to many people, but their existence is crucial because it makes music interesting and progressive (standard e.g. Neu! wasn't popular but influenced music dramatically). However, these type of people fall into two (perhaps not mutually exclusive) categories: 1. Come from wealthy families, don't need to worry about day to day living. - Obviously record sales don't hurt these people, until Daddy pulls the plug, and perhaps they've made it by then. If not, well at least they had the chance. 2. Are so passionate about music, that they will take sacrifice everything to be able to make it. - The really great artists fall here. Some get lucky and eventually make it. Others don't. But whether there is music pirating or not isn't going to stop them from making music. If they are truly talented, their work will eventually get discovered, and then they can tour, be happy, and move into category I.ii.a. Otherwise, they will tragically disappear. But such disappearance isn't new - being an artist has always had that risk. And in my opinion, this risk will actually *decrease* once recording companies fall away, because the public won't be as hand-fed their music as in the past. But this is but a prediction. So who gets hurt who might not anyway with decreasing record sales? No category that I can think of. As I said, this isn't exhaustive, so if people come up with new categories, I'm all game. -marco --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2003-01-17 19:56EggyToast>So who gets hurt who might not anyway with decreasing record sales? No >category that I c
From:
EggyToast
To:
Date:
Fri, 17 Jan 2003 14:56:52 -0500
Subject:
RE: [idm] 2003: The Year the Music Industry Dies - but who gets hurt?
Reply to:
RE: [idm] 2003: The Year the Music Industry Dies - but who gets hurt?
permalink · <a0501040bba4e10775a42@[128.220.50.51]>
quoted 4 lines So who gets hurt who might not anyway with decreasing record sales? No>So who gets hurt who might not anyway with decreasing record sales? No >category that I can think of. As I said, this isn't exhaustive, so if >people come up with new categories, I'm all game. >
Simple. The artists can gain by going directly to their fan base, right? The pop stars are still making money, because they're all about the merchandising, right? So it's the people releasing the information in the first place -- the spin doctors, PR people, scouts, and middle-management that stand to lose everything. Their jobs are created around the music "industry" remaining just that -- assembly line, predictable music that they can create a demand for. And they're the ones who aren't even in to making or really listening to music. They're in it because it's a business. They know that regardless of what changes, the artists and listers are still going to be there for each other, and that listeners would be happy to pay artists directly. And that's why they employ such silly scare tactics as "$ lost to pirates, yar." derek -- eggytoast.com -------------- commerce soon: eggtastic.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2003-01-17 19:16skismIt seems to me that a large percentage of the Electronic music listened to by this list is
From:
skism
To:
Date:
Fri, 17 Jan 2003 19:16:54 -0000
Subject:
RE: [idm] 2003: The Year the Music Industry Dies - Wired Magazine, 2/2003
Reply to:
RE: [idm] 2003: The Year the Music Industry Dies - Wired Magazine, 2/2003
permalink · <KMEBJKLODEGGIFHIGMMEAELJEAAA.cazeone@ramdis.com>
It seems to me that a large percentage of the Electronic music listened to by this list is produced by people with propper jobs, doesn't seem to affect the quality. While having more time to spend at something can obviously only be a good thing it doesnt seem to be essential. skism
quoted 111 lines -----Original Message-----> -----Original Message----- > From: cath animon [mailto:cathanimon@hotmail.com] > Sent: 17 January 2003 18:10 > To: idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: RE: [idm] 2003: The Year the Music Industry Dies - Wired > Magazine, 2/2003 > > > > the way i see it, quite simply, if artists don't make a living > from sales of > hard copies of their work, they will ultimately have to return to > life-eating day-jobs which will only destroy their potential. > you can't be expected to create great music as well as catching > the bus to > work every morning... > > > > > >From: "skism" <cazeone@ramdis.com> > >Reply-To: <cazeone@ramdis.com> > >To: <idm@hyperreal.org> > >Subject: RE: [idm] 2003: The Year the Music Industry Dies - > Wired Magazine, > >2/2003 Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 19:03:24 -0000 > > > > > >Didn't I read somewhere that the Industries loss in sales was > actually due > >to > >a drop in production, which they tried to cover up in order to have some > >ammunition for the war against p2p? > > > >But in the end I can't see the Industry disappearing anytime > soon... Their > >revenues are still huge so the worst I can see happening is a little belt > >tightening or maybe the odd merger and acquisition here and there. > > > >What's great about capitalism is that it gives an opportunity for small > >more efficient companies to adapt to new circumstances where the larger > >companies are too bloated and inefficient to change in time to deal with > >them. But I guess the music industry is a little different due to the > >fact that it's dealing with peoples taste (or lack of), so who knows.. > > > >But even if they did all go bust it wouldn't be much of a problem for > >most of the people on this list, who i'm sure buy much of their music > >in specialist stores stocked full of independant music? > > > >...skism > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Brett Dietsch [mailto:elph@lawngnome.org] > > > Sent: 17 January 2003 17:40 > > > To: seeklektek > > > Cc: idm@hyperreal.org > > > Subject: Re: [idm] 2003: The Year the Music Industry Dies - Wired > > > Magazine, 2/2003 > > > > > > > > > > > > On Friday, January 17, 2003, at 12:24 PM, seeklektek wrote: > > > > > > > > The article, in Wired's Feb.2003 issue, on newsstands now, > opens with > >a > > > > prediction by the late Timothy White, > > > > editor of Billboard, that the Music Industry will die in 2003. Aw, > > > > gee: > > > > wouldn't that be too bad?! ;) > > > > > > probably, yeah it would be. > > > dont get me wrong, im not a big fan of labels and everything, but they > > > are a semi-necessary evil. > > > if noone buys the cd's and everyone pirates them, the companies no > > > longer have any reason to put out cd's, which in turn means noone has > > > cd's to pirate, which reinstates the need for cd distribution, > > > which.... well.. go back to the beginning. > > > > > > hell yes, i pirate music. i also buy what i like and trash what i > > > dont. most people just pirate music. im not pulling a moral high > > > ground pose here, but seriously.. if the industry goes away, any hope > > > at decent distribution will also go away. > > > > > > i _LIKE_ having access to artists all over the world, being able to > > > find almost any genre of music, and lots that i've never heard of. no > > > industry, no distribution, less choices. > > > > > > now, if only the industry would play nice.. > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >
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