quoted 16 lines music is evocative. music is not just wallpaper.
> music is evocative. music is not just wallpaper.
> i don't think i would love music so much if it were
> all about how the aesthetic of a certain song
> appealed
> to me. it's a lot deeper than that. there is heavy
>
> emotional appeal in a lot of music from the big phil
> spector pop productions to classical to country to
> the
> weird "out-there" experimental stuff... there
> definitely
> is music which doesn't resonate with me emotionally,
> and if that music doesn't appeal to my dancing
> sensibilities, chances are i'm not going to be
> interested
> in it.
I believe that is my place as well, but for opposite
reasons. Perhaps I want to break it down to where it
isn't emotional, or directly emotional. There is a
lot of coldness in much of the music brought up. Very
logical.
quoted 22 lines here, i think you're missing the point. sure, there
> here, i think you're missing the point. sure, there
> is
> idm out there that's created without any kind of
> gender
> agenda (that's fun to say, huh? gender agend gender
> agenda).
> probably most of it is not created with an
> underlying
> "plan" to manifest specific female or male ideas,
> but
> the artists sex surely informs their perspective,
> identity,
> and hence these things are reflected in their
> creative
> output. and while i can see why these things
> wouldn't
> interest you if you listen to idm for purely sonic
> reasons,
> as someone who tries to get something beyond finding
> the coolest bleep sound ever out of the music, these
> factors
> play a role in the way i listen to all music.
You are right, and I think I envy that a bit. These
are things that I don't think I'm capable of
understanding. I do not deny that there is a set
agenda necessarily, and I certainly do not deny that
the essence of a creator plays an important role in
their work, but I also take great comfort in thinking
that this music rests slightly below that threshold.
That whatever essence a person creating the work had
was filtered out into, well, anonymous sonic
expression, if you will.
quoted 12 lines again... that's not what this is about... it's not
> again... that's not what this is about... it's not
> about justifying
> creative output by assigning the gender of the
> artist to the
> author. it's about recognizing the things in the
> music that
> are uniquely female. dat politics is a group i
> don't necessarily
> hear a male or female point counterpoint kind of
> dynamic in...
> but there is some girly sounding pop on the new
> record :)
Perhaps I am not seasoned in searching for the gender
identity in this music. Maybe it is that the human
element is broad enough to encapsulate both genders in
the creative process, and what would normally be the
"signs" in most mediums are lost in the coldness of
such music. This is disheartening to think, because I
feel as though I'm missing something.
And yes, the new dat politics record is amazing.
Girly sounding though? I just dont see that. Hell, I
recognized a bit of my own music in some of their more
upbeat tunes. [pie, track3, for example]
Interesting, but I don't want to know why.
quoted 13 lines yes, if you listen to something purely because it's
> yes, if you listen to something purely because it's
> female
> or male then there's probably a problem with the
> music to
> begin with (you should be able to enjoy anything on
> its own
> merit, right? heavily conceptual stuff usually bores
> the
> piss out of me and just about everyone i know).
> choosing
> things to listen to this way is annoying in the same
> way
> that girls who listen to all ani difranco
Who is that anyway, and why the fuck does she have a
cult of girls following her around?! I've always
wondered that.
and
quoted 6 lines whatever other
> whatever other
> lillith fair type things are purely because it's
> made by women
> is something i find narrow-minded... if that's
> someone's type of
> thing, no offense, i just don't get it.
No, I hear you. I wasn't giving the discussion enough
credit to begin with, so the generalizations were
ultimately my doing. I'm certain that the problem is
not about *this* distinction, but one that I'm just
not able to understand. Or understand, but not able
to recognize. In fact, this is my entire point. My
attraction to this music came from not recognizing any
distinct emotional elements. And the music is
interesting enough to not have to find human substance
in it. The machines act as a filter for me. They
allow the creator to express himself while filtering
any excess meaning. Listen to a cut up vocal sample
in, well, almost anything. This, to me, says: we
don't care what you say or where it comes from, we
just want to exploit it for sonic means. The fact
that others on this list get more than that out of it
really amazes me; makes me feel as though I'm missing
something I'm not sure I want to get. I think you
might be onto something when you mentioned "purely
sonic means."
quoted 7 lines everything is directly related to these identifiers
> everything is directly related to these identifiers
> because
> these things directly inform our perspective and the
> way
> we experience the world and are reflected in the
> things
> we make and enjoy.
But to such an exact degree? I find listening to much
of my collection to be escaping the reflections I find
elsewhere, and no other music is interesting enough to
allow for this.
quoted 11 lines yeah, that is absurd... but to compare that to this
> yeah, that is absurd... but to compare that to this
> situation
> is to trivialize it. it's no small problem. it
> relates to equal
> opportunity. coffee shops being filled with more
> men than
> women is not important... a community that
> represents more
> than half of the population not getting the respect,
> credit
> and attention they deserve is a big deal :)
Of course it is, but that seems to belong elsewhere.
Not, I repeat NOT, that these topics are not very
serious ones, but the gaining of respect and attention
will come from far more direct means. Laptops have
little to do with this problem. I could write more,
but this is really off the topic of music..
quoted 9 lines sorry to go on so long. i'm sure some people are
> sorry to go on so long. i'm sure some people are
> bored stiff
> at this point with this thread, but, well, don't
> read it :)
> i think this is an interesting debate.
> no offense intended to anyone who feels contrarily.
> i'm not some hoighty-toity bleeding heart
> politically correct
> guy either, so.....
No, if they don't want to read it, then they shouldn't
read it. I found it very interesting. Keep going if
you want. I'm sure enough people hate me on this list
anyway. ;)
Brandon
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