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[idm] interface

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◇ merged from 2 subjects: idm concerts · interface
2002-04-18 22:43Aaron D Meyers Re: [idm] IDM concerts
├─ 2002-04-18 23:06Greg Smith [idm] interface
└─ 2002-04-18 23:31Aaron Ximm Re: [idm] IDM concerts
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2002-04-18 22:43Aaron D MeyersWell, based on what I said before, I wasn't really talking about specifically "visually" e
From:
Aaron D Meyers
To:
Greg Smith ,
Date:
Thu, 18 Apr 2002 18:43:09 -0400
Subject:
Re: [idm] IDM concerts
permalink · <340dc36340cb38.340cb38340dc36@homemail.nyu.edu>
Well, based on what I said before, I wasn't really talking about specifically "visually" engaging. I was talking about engaging the audience at all. Miles Davis is probably the worst example you could come up with. First, there were some politics behind the whole back to the crowd thing. But the stuff he played out of his trumpet was so much more spontaneous and not mediated by something as encumbering as a laptop screen and software knobs adjusting parameters on an oscillator or whatnot. And he had a whole band playing pretty freely too. Whereas, laptop guy is alienating people through his laptop screen by necessity of the mechanics of the "instrument" he's playing. I mean, the greatest jazz improvisers can practically speak through their instruments (even with their back turned to the audience). Have you ever seen a laptop performer that could really speak through his laptop in a SPONTANEOUS way? And as far as visually engaging goes, I don't need a performer to wink at me or any shit like that. I don't know. Its complicated so I can only go with my gut on this. And yea, as far as Brian's point goes... listening is great, but why should I pay $10 and be uncomfortable when the listening experience is better in every way (in my experience) at home with headphones. -Aaron
quoted 25 lines I agree with Brian's comments about going out to listen and little> I agree with Brian's comments about going out to listen and little > else. I > really don't know what the point of the other whiny comments about how > "visually engaging" a show delivered by a performer playing on a > laptop is > or isn't. Miles Davis used to play with his back to the crowd > half the time > and he took heat for that.. this argument isn't new. Some > artists play > with the crowd, others to them.. no difference to me really. I'd > ratherhave a musician stare blankly at the audience and play their > heart out then > get caught up in onstage campy rockstar games (i.e... peaches). > > ~g > http://www.laiad.com > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >
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2002-04-18 23:06Greg Smithon 4/18/02 3:43 PM, Aaron D Meyers at adm226@nyu.edu scrawled: > instruments (even with th
From:
Greg Smith
To:
Date:
Thu, 18 Apr 2002 16:06:43 -0700
Subject:
[idm] interface
Reply to:
Re: [idm] IDM concerts
permalink · <B8E49F93.53C8%purgasmith@earthlink.net>
on 4/18/02 3:43 PM, Aaron D Meyers at adm226@nyu.edu scrawled:
quoted 4 lines instruments (even with their back turned to the audience). Have you> instruments (even with their back turned to the audience). Have you > ever seen a laptop performer that could really speak through his laptop > in a SPONTANEOUS way? >
Only if trashing a laptop counts. I think comparing electronic musicians performance styles to the improvisation of jazz artists is kind of a dead end. To say nothing of the issue of interface, lots of jazz cats have been playing their weapon of choice for 20-30-40 years and the software the average electronic musician uses has been out for what; 5 years? I think we are talking about altogether different beasts. For the record, I expect that I was just as elated with the autechre show I caught in Toronto last spring as I would have been to check out Ornette Coleman & co. at the five spot in 1959. I really do understand where you are coming from as I have been listening to lots of looser music of late for this very reason. It will be interesting to see what kind of interfaces are developed to address your concerns though..
quoted 6 lines only go with my gut on this. And yea, as far as Brian's point goes...> > only go with my gut on this. And yea, as far as Brian's point goes... > listening is great, but why should I pay $10 and be uncomfortable when > the listening experience is better in every way (in my experience) at > home with headphones. >
Good point. I don't go to many shows these days for that very reason. ~g --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-04-18 23:31Aaron Ximm> listening is great, but why should I pay $10 and be uncomfortable when > the listening e
From:
Aaron Ximm
To:
Aaron D Meyers
Cc:
Greg Smith ,
Date:
Thu, 18 Apr 2002 16:31:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:
Re: [idm] IDM concerts
Reply to:
Re: [idm] IDM concerts
permalink · <Pine.SOL.4.42.0204181554130.14989-100000@well.com>
quoted 3 lines listening is great, but why should I pay $10 and be uncomfortable when> listening is great, but why should I pay $10 and be uncomfortable when > the listening experience is better in every way (in my experience) at > home with headphones.
As someone curating shows of experimental -- as often as not laptop-based -- electronic music and sound art, this is a question that vexes and perplexes me. One answer I've commited myself to is to make the listening space as comfortable as possible -- in our case, we put out a lot of pillows and futons on a clean floor so everyone can sprawl and sit -- no standing -- with some chairs along the back. Relative to home/headphone listening, I think there are some benefits to 'live' shows, namely: community, sound quality, and attention. Live shows are more than listening experiences -- they're social experiences: opportunities to hang with friends, meet people with similar interests, talk shop, and in our little niche scene, actually talk with the artists -- all things I value at > $10. Sound quality ... well that depends on your home system; but some of the shows I've put on have used a serious PA with sub cabinets to full effect, literally moving the body with the sound -- something that you're just not going to get at home unless you're lucky. It's also nice to offer multiple speaker arrays to fill the space, even without surround mixing. But some of the work we've had presented is built around placing different sound-makers (boomboxes? crickets?) around the space, too. (I'm not knocking the subtle, personal transportation of headphone listening -- most of my CDs say 'please use headphones') Finally -- and I put a lot of weight on this -- is *attention*. My own experience is that even with the best intentions, it's easy to be distracted while listening at home -- especially if I can grab a book and try to double task. I think there's something inherently attention focusing about being at a concert or show -- even if your mind wanders, the paradigm I follow dictates that I don't read, check email, chat -- I listen. Sure you can still space out, but there's some mental weight behind the fact that you've gotten up and gone out somewhere to LISTEN, that makes you do it. This is all much on mind since the show i'm hosting tommorow night is taking things in a new direction for me, and I'm really curious to see if it comes off -- it's a show of 'tape music', prepared compositions. We'll have good speakers (hopefully a quad system plus 4 pair house speakers), so the sound will be better than most can muster at home -- but I *really* don't know if people will come out for, or be satisfied with, a show that's devoid of "performance". I'm going to try to speak a bit to this stuff up front, and ask the artists to say a few words about their work, in hopes of steering expectations. I'll report back post-facto... ... Incidentally, there's a wider issue I have with performance in the electronic music world: that our notions of performance rhetoric seem strongly grounded in the rock/punk or DJ scenes. Stand in a crowd, face the performer, watch them run their motor-program of behaviors for you... Is that REALLY what's interesting (or should be) with this kind of music? I recently discussed with someone how in this genre especially, 95% of the work is usually done in the preparation -- building those patches, preparing those samples, programming the sequencers, soldering the triggers, etc. etc. etc. What the audience gets to see 'performed' is usually (not always I grant) a scripted -- may I say, canned -- sequence. So why not go the last mile and relax our expectations for that 5%? Build new expectations for what composers/musicians in these genres will actually DO for you in a situation that is already offering benefits differentiating it from at-home CD listening (say)? (Disclaimer -- of course, you could argue that a band going through a set is doing the same thing; all the work went into composition, rehearsal, etc... or argue, the improv seen offers a different conceptual model of how effort is broken down, based on refinement of skills that are actualized in a moment of feedback and intuition... but stay with me for a moment...) (Anyone remember Robert Fripp's 'zen and the art of guitar' column?) After all this thread has emphasized how it certainly doesn't captivate an audience when the performative behavior is knob twiddling. Well, what are the alternatives? Other than 'unnecessary' dramatization and histronics unrelated to the production of sound? (disclaimer -- I realize some performances are just as much about those aspects... fine!) Musing on use of expressive physical controllers ... I've seen some amazing performances built on specific physical or acoustic processes -- mic'd objects, extended/destroyed instruments and toys, custom MIDI controllers -- but nothing that's a universal or even widely applicable solution, at least not yet. Especially because there's such a premium placed on novelty -- if Atau Tanaka or Stellarc's done some biometric control of media via MAX/MSP, what will you say when I get up and do it? "Derivative" or "unoriginal" maybe. Or maybe not, perhaps the best universal MIDI controllers (say) will evolve in a way that lets people see them as simple instruments to individual vision -- like a guitar, no one thinks Fred Firth is "imitating" Les Paul because he uses a guitar, after all. But we're not there yet. Yet plenty of this music is not well-suited to demonstrative, physical control -- it's too precise, too layered, there are too many factors evolving in parallel. And when we can fluidly and well-control the parameters we're interested in, the cause and effect are often either too loosely coupled, or not obvious enough to the audience to satisfy (though there's always hope for audience education...). Hmmm. And you know, I don't want to play the keyboard -- laptop or roland. ... So my own thoughts are bent these days to trying to find a new context for bringing experimental music/sound to an audience -- beyond 'performance' like discussed above, and also beyond the other limiting categories (and their own baggage): 'installation works' in pristine white Art galleries; academic concerts ghettoized to contemporary music audiences; and... CDs and web-distribution. Not that any of those should, can, will be condemned or dismissed -- I just want to find a new model, a new community structure for educating people and bringing work to the world... Soundwalks are a good idea. Interactive sound installations in unexpected locations are a good idea. Weird music concerts in 'straight' venues helps... We'll see. Uh, I mean, hear. ... Boy, I guess I needed to get that all out! Apology for the rambling gamboling rant, but it sure felt good to type... Best, aaron ghede@well.com http://www.quietamerican.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org