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RE: [idm] Dada / Intonarumori

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◇ merged from 2 subjects: appropriation in art *and* deleuze influence on post digital music · dada / intonarumori
2002-04-11 02:13Christopher Sorg RE: [idm] appropriation in art *and* Deleuze Influence on Post Digital Music
└─ 2002-04-11 03:58Andrei RE: [idm] Dada / Intonarumori
2002-04-11 21:42Andrei RE: [idm] Dada / Intonarumori
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2002-04-11 02:13Christopher SorgThe statement in question: > > " DADA is art with neither slippers nor parallels; it is ag
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Christopher Sorg
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Wed, 10 Apr 2002 21:13:36 -0500
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RE: [idm] appropriation in art *and* Deleuze Influence on Post Digital Music
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The statement in question:
quoted 3 lines " DADA is art with neither slippers nor parallels; it is against and for> > " DADA is art with neither slippers nor parallels; it is against and for > > unity and is decidedly against the future." > > Tristan Tzara
quoted 1 line couldn't the statement be inferrred to mean that dada wasn't a dainty,> couldn't the statement be inferrred to mean that dada wasn't a dainty,
cautious movement
quoted 1 line (wearing slippers), had no contemporary or historical "parallel," favored> (wearing slippers), had no contemporary or historical "parallel," favored
anarchy, and was
quoted 3 lines opposed to future=progress propaganda?> opposed to future=progress propaganda? > does everything illogical really mean nothing? > -jr
I'll quote myself: "That doesn't mean it doesn't mean anything." What I meant by that is exactly what you're implying. I'm not going so far as to actually break the dada statement down into meaningful things, after all, it is a totally metaphorical sentence. As far as sentences go, it is an illogical proposition. Which is fine. No problem there, we can read it as poetry instead. And your reading is certainly one way of looking at it. My take is more or less that "DADA" compares to nothing else and only means what it means for the moment. The criteria for this would be, as I interpret it, to deny meaning (you can't define what compares to nothing else, and if it's strictly for the moment, then once the moment is past, well..). I think the difficulty is that Western thought is so used to defining and categorizing in a dialectic manner, recognizing one and "the other". I think what is so tricky and interesting about Dada is that you have a group of artists playing off of their own work, saying yes and no at the same time (to use a metaphor :). They're great tricksters in an age of atomism. Rather than running away from the dialectic, they use it, play up both sides, say everything/nothing at once. It's better than punk, better than Marxism. Punk needed authority to rail against it, Marxism needed Capitalism to define it. And just to kill another thread, ideas certainly *do* inform music. To quote the website, http://www.fastpromotion.com/techno/html/history.html: "As standard means of their rebellion, the Dada create music based on newly-formed industrial noises. Compositions by Kurt Schwitters, such as `An- na Blume` (1919) & `Ursonate` (1923) seem to have formed a basis for the de- velopment of abstract music in the 20th century. Dada`s main inspiration, though, seems to have been Luigi Russolo, an Italian Futurist artist & composer who has designed a series of noise-producing machines i.e. The Noise Intoners (`Intonarumori`) in 1912, instruments which have been hi- ghly used even by some famous composers like Stravinski, and which used to depict sounds from nature on various frequencies." The Dadaists created some music based on their ideas, to be sure. And I consider Russolo's machine to be both Futurist and very Dada, as some of the machines tended to fall apart and self-destruct as they created some incredible sounds. The first industrial "music". You'd also have to be on an island to not be influenced by ideas like Deleuze. It doesn't matter whether you've read a word or not, it's being read and absorbed at different levels in our culture; it becomes part of our cultural subconscious, just as Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle or Einstein's Theory of Relativity have. And I doubt that many of us have actually read the primary sources of either. I think I've blathered on enough. __________________________________________ Christopher Sorg Multimedia Artist and Instructor The School of the Art Institute of Chicago http://csorg.cjb.net csorg@artic.edu --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.314 / Virus Database: 175 - Release Date: 1/11/02 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-04-11 03:58AndreiOn Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Christopher Sorg wrote: > The Noise Intoners (`Intonarumori`) in 1912
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Andrei
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Date:
Wed, 10 Apr 2002 23:58:09 -0400
Subject:
RE: [idm] Dada / Intonarumori
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RE: [idm] appropriation in art *and* Deleuze Influence on Post Digital Music
permalink · <Pine.SGI.4.40.0204102347280.5153522-100000@shell01.TheWorld.com>
On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Christopher Sorg wrote:
quoted 4 lines The Noise Intoners (`Intonarumori`) in 1912,> The Noise Intoners (`Intonarumori`) in 1912, > instruments which have been hi- ghly used even by some famous composers like > Stravinski, and which used to depict sounds from nature on various > frequencies."
Stravinski never actually used the Intonarumori though.
quoted 1 line The Dadaists created some music based on their ideas, to be sure.> The Dadaists created some music based on their ideas, to be sure.
Well, if you know of any besides the sound poetry of Hausmann and Schwitters please let me know, because this is something I've been searching for. Andrei --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2002-04-11 21:42AndreiFor those who care about this Dada music thread: I have a friend who specializes in Dada a
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Andrei
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Date:
Thu, 11 Apr 2002 17:42:44 -0400
Subject:
RE: [idm] Dada / Intonarumori
permalink · <Pine.SGI.4.40.0204111729120.5283270-100000@shell01.TheWorld.com>
For those who care about this Dada music thread: I have a friend who specializes in Dada and Surrealist literature and here are some things he had to say about Dada music. Enjoy. Andrei --------- What I can recall are things not so much in the name of music as in the name of provocation, but as far as Picabia goes, his first wife (who had a strong influence on his ideas), Gabrielle Buffet, was a trained pianist, as was her sister, Mauguerite, who actually performed at a couple Dada performances in Paris. One piece she performed was Picabia's piece, an example of "Sodomist" music (I think that's what he called it, even though "sadist" would have made more sense), called something like "The Nanny" (or something with nanny in the title), which was essentially minimalism before its time: three notes played over and over and over. It was also her that played Georges Ribemont-Dessaignes' piece "No Curly Chicory!" at another performance, and I actually have a description of that, culled from the Dada Almanac: the piece "had been composed by choosing notes entirely at random and was played with stony-faced expertise by Marguerite Buffet, a professional concert performer. the composer was seated beside her turning the pages of his masterpiece and later recalled being swamped in an indescribable uproar in which music, the shouts, cries and whistles of the audience united into a discordant harmony like the smashing of glass: 'curiously effective,' he thought." That was March 1920. I can't find a reference to the Picabia piece right now. Satie's "furniture music" could be conceivably fall under the Dada rubric, although it preceded his actual involvement with Picabia, and that would already be after Picabia had broken with the movement. But it is somewhat in the spirit, although its intentions were opposite. Also Varese, but you know more about him than I do: he lived with Picabia in NY for a summer, when Dada was just getting going, and Picabia referenced a piece he never actually wrote more than once: a piece written for the water faucet. There is also that Duchamp cd you probably know about, but in that case, I think it is a whole piece constructed around an idea to be found among his notes, so to describe him as contributing to a Dadaist music would be stretching things. If you include Schwitters' sound poetry as music, then there is lots of that sort of thing, but I'm not sure I would label it all as music: Tzara experimented a lot with African songs, nonsense words, etc. And Scwitters' sound poetry was inspired by the output of Raoul Hausmann, who actually precedes him. There is another Ribemont-Dessaignes thing that had everybody on stage go "krii krii krii krii" (or something like that) over and (again) over and over again, which annoyed Breton so much that he had to leave the theater for a while. (He hated music, which is why there is no surrealist music). And there was also an actual Dada-foxtrot, which was written by a Dadaist, and was actually something of a foxtrot, but they were amused by it and welcomed the publicity. Music and dancing played a part in the early Zurich stuff/Cabaret Voltaire, but it was mostly standard music-hall stuff (although the costumes got wild): that was the background of Hugo Ball and Emmy Hennings (her singing drew a lot of the audience). Varese and Satie seem to come closest to a serious idea of Dada music, and Varese seems to have his foot equally in Futurism, and Satie was never really a Dadaist. There might also be something to look at with the Laban dancing troupe, who joined in with the Cabaret Voltaire sometimes. I don't know what they were doing in terms of accompanying music, or if they were even using any, but the fact that they probably made it subordinate to their movement would be relevant, but I haven't read up on them. The Zurich Dadaists were always trying to get the Laban dancers to go out with them. But on the whole, the Zurich stuff isn't even what people generally associate with Dada (in terms of negativity, confrontation, scandal, etc.). There could have been more of a development at one point, but things went a different way: Marinetti came to Paris to give a lecture on new sounds and futurist music, etc., which by all accounts should have interested the Dadaists, except that he preceded his arrival with the statement that Dada was a development of Futurism, so all they had on their mind was sabotaging his lecture rather than paying any attention to what he was actually saying. --------- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org