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Re: [idm] re: napster

33 messages · 21 participants · spans 2 days · search this subject
◇ merged from 4 subjects: napster · napster (multi-reply) · napster (reply) · napster / mozart & copyright
2001-02-12 23:40Martin [idm] napster
2001-02-13 00:46Matthew Allen RE: [idm] napster
2001-02-13 01:02Gause, Brian RE: [idm] napster
2001-02-13 01:04Ron Jeremy Re: [idm] napster
2001-02-13 01:22Static Beats Re: [idm] napster
2001-02-13 01:25Mike Cadoo Re: [idm] napster
2001-02-13 01:30alland[byallo] Re: [idm] napster
2001-02-13 01:525 -me0-DMT Re: [idm] napster
2001-02-13 02:10[idm] re: napster
2001-02-13 05:16...(Sunsp0t)... Re: RE: [idm] napster
2001-02-13 05:44...(Sunsp0t)... Re: Re: [idm] napster
2001-02-13 09:53Martin Re: [idm] napster
2001-02-13 10:09Martin Re: [idm] napster
2001-02-13 15:18Jesse McCoppin RE: [idm] re: napster
2001-02-13 15:27Bill Wright RE: [idm] re: napster
2001-02-13 15:35unlyrn Re: [idm] re: napster
└─ 2001-02-14 02:02interdit Re: [idm] re: napster / Mozart & copyright
2001-02-13 15:59Joseph MacKay Re: [idm] re: napster
└─ 2001-02-13 16:12Bill Wright Re: [idm] re: napster
2001-02-13 17:03Philip Sherburne RE: [idm] re: napster
└─ 2001-02-13 17:15mantra RE: [idm] re: napster
2001-02-13 17:24mantra RE: [idm] re: napster
└─ 2001-02-13 18:34alland.byallo RE: [idm] re: napster
2001-02-13 21:48...(Sunsp0t)... Re: RE: [idm] re: napster
└─ 2001-02-13 22:28Bill Wright Re: RE: [idm] re: napster
└─ 2001-02-14 05:36adam florin Re: [idm] re: napster (multi-reply)
└─ 2001-02-14 14:43Bill Wright Re: [idm] re: napster (reply)
2001-02-13 21:50...(Sunsp0t)... Re: Re: [idm] re: napster
└─ 2001-02-13 22:39Jeff/Ninja Tune Re: [idm] re: napster
2001-02-13 22:26César Laia Re: Re: [idm] re: napster
2001-02-13 22:59Jesse McCoppin RE: [idm] re: napster
2001-02-14 00:34Re: [idm] re: napster
2001-02-14 01:52...(Sunsp0t)... [idm] Fw: Re: [idm] re: napster
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2001-02-12 23:40MartinThank God Napster took another kicking...fuck off and die you thieves...if tossers like na
From:
Martin
To:
Date:
Tue, 13 Feb 2001 00:40:57 +0100
Subject:
[idm] napster
permalink · <E14STX5-0006NG-00@scrabble.freeuk.net>
Thank God Napster took another kicking...fuck off and die you thieves...if tossers like napster wasn't bootlegging artists work, maybe more people could concentrate on content rather than spending most of their time doing crap work to pay the rent, while the corporates just get richer from their sweat. Apollon --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-02-13 00:46Matthew AllenAre you on crack? > -----Original Message----- > From: Martin [mailto:apollon@freeuk.com]
From:
Matthew Allen
To:
Date:
Mon, 12 Feb 2001 16:46:40 -0800
Subject:
RE: [idm] napster
permalink · <AF020C5FC551DD43A4958A679EA16A154E1C57@mailcluster.lith.com>
Are you on crack?
quoted 23 lines -----Original Message-----> -----Original Message----- > From: Martin [mailto:apollon@freeuk.com] > Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 3:41 PM > To: idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: [idm] napster > > > Thank God Napster took another kicking...fuck off and die you > thieves...if > tossers like napster wasn't bootlegging artists work, maybe > more people > could concentrate on content rather than spending most of > their time doing > crap work to pay the rent, while the corporates just get > richer from their > sweat. > > Apollon > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >
2001-02-13 01:02Gause, BrianIs there a point to this or are you fishing for a fight? ---brian ------------------------
From:
Gause, Brian
To:
'Martin' ,
Date:
Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:02:39 -0800
Subject:
RE: [idm] napster
permalink · <8F4C99C66D04D4118F580090272A7A23556A50@sectorbase1.sectorbase.com>
Is there a point to this or are you fishing for a fight? ---brian ------------------------ Brian W. Gause Senior Technical Writer SECTORBASE.com 568 Howard Street First Floor San Francisco, CA 94105 Direct: (415) 365-8203 Fax: (415) 365-8263 -----Original Message----- From: Martin [mailto:apollon@freeuk.com] Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 3:41 PM To: idm@hyperreal.org Subject: [idm] napster Thank God Napster took another kicking...fuck off and die you thieves...if tossers like napster wasn't bootlegging artists work, maybe more people could concentrate on content rather than spending most of their time doing crap work to pay the rent, while the corporates just get richer from their sweat. Apollon --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-02-13 01:04Ron JeremyMost of the stuff I download are tracks that have been out of print for years. I don't see
From:
Ron Jeremy
To:
,
Date:
Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:04:06 -0800
Subject:
Re: [idm] napster
permalink · <F200xtniFKULPEhGD1X00006765@hotmail.com>
Most of the stuff I download are tracks that have been out of print for years. I don't see a crime in downloading tunes from labels that are no longer in existence. This would account for at least 80% of what i have downloaded. I have also bought CDs and 12"s from artists I might never of heard of because of Napster. By the way Martin, why do you care? Does it affect you in any way?
quoted 7 lines From: "Martin" <apollon@freeuk.com>>From: "Martin" <apollon@freeuk.com> > >Thank God Napster took another kicking...fuck off and die you thieves...if >tossers like napster wasn't bootlegging artists work, maybe more people >could concentrate on content rather than spending most of their time doing >crap work to pay the rent, while the corporates just get richer from their >sweat.
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2001-02-13 01:22Static BeatsBegging... Pleading... PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE Let's not start another argument about Napster
From:
Static Beats
To:
Date:
Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:22:35 -0800
Subject:
Re: [idm] napster
permalink · <00c001c0955b$7553e990$e5464440@digitalpipe.com>
Begging... Pleading... PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE Let's not start another argument about Napster here. It'll go on forever and the only outcome will be a 50/50 split in opinion. shimone/justes http://www.staticbeats.com Electronic Music For The Mind --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-02-13 01:25Mike Cadooyes I agree!!! lets all discuss some easy topic like the death penalty or religion 8^) >Fr
From:
Mike Cadoo
To:
Date:
Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:25:42 -0800
Subject:
Re: [idm] napster
permalink · <F105exxvfRABPr33UAN00012e52@hotmail.com>
yes I agree!!! lets all discuss some easy topic like the death penalty or religion 8^)
quoted 19 lines From: "Static Beats" <static@staticbeats.com>>From: "Static Beats" <static@staticbeats.com> >To: <idm@hyperreal.org> >Subject: Re: [idm] napster >Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:22:35 -0800 > >Begging... Pleading... PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE >Let's not start another argument about Napster here. >It'll go on forever and the only outcome will be a 50/50 split in opinion. > > >shimone/justes >http://www.staticbeats.com >Electronic Music For The Mind > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >
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2001-02-13 01:30alland[byallo]> Begging... Pleading... PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE > Let's not start another argument about Nap
From:
alland[byallo]
To:
idm.list
Date:
Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:30:26 -0800
Subject:
Re: [idm] napster
permalink · <003501c0955c$8b7b0900$3e509440@internetconnect.net>
quoted 3 lines Begging... Pleading... PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE> Begging... Pleading... PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE > Let's not start another argument about Napster here. > It'll go on forever and the only outcome will be a 50/50 split in opinion.
aww... but it's so much fun! seriously. this argument resurfaces on every damn list i've ever been on every couple of months. and it's tired. we all know the issues at hand. we're all big kids. let's, instead, talk about vinyl vs. cd for live mixing. :) so any of the l.a. people on this list ever see the group Illogical play live? hiphop laced downtempo with live flute and guitar, and opera singer? now that's idm to me. a. : and now its time for the samurai math attack : mathematics strikes back : --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-02-13 01:525 -me0-DMThow about we discuss the bible in regards to the catholic church and its correlation to th
From:
5 -me0-DMT
To:
,
Date:
Tue, 13 Feb 2001 01:52:23 -0000
Subject:
Re: [idm] napster
permalink · <F137XRPmcarcR4ZDgC80000a32d@hotmail.com>
how about we discuss the bible in regards to the catholic church and its correlation to the death of napster in its present form. sounds interesting enough. what the fuck ever happened to bogdan? froggyfarm seems to be dead as well. np: bogdan raczysnki - thinking of you - track07 _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-02-13 02:10TekDz9ER@aol.comThem sounds like fightin' words ta me. But I won't start a fight. I just want to say that
From:
To:
Date:
Mon, 12 Feb 2001 21:10:07 EST
Subject:
[idm] re: napster
permalink · <33.109920af.27b9f17f@aol.com>
Them sounds like fightin' words ta me. But I won't start a fight. I just want to say that without Napster, I would never have been able to experience some of the great music in our scene. There are so many artists nowadays, some good some bad, lots of conflicting opinions on this list. I'm grateful that I've been able to find out for myself without having shelled out hundreds of dollars on crap. Although I sympathize with artists and labels who truly believe that they've lost substantial amounts of profit due to Napster, my truth is that if I discover something that I believe to be a winner, I'll go out and buy the real thing. So no money lost there. And it's a great way to stock up on classic and deleted records that one would never be able to purchase at any retail music store again. Life sucks now. And to all up and coming idm/electronic artists: I'm awfully sorry, but I just can't afford to buy all of your music. TekDz9er <Thank God Napster took another kicking...fuck off and die you thieves...if tossers like napster wasn't bootlegging artists work, maybe more people could concentrate on content rather than spending most of their time doing crap work to pay the rent, while the corporates just get richer from their sweat. Apollon> --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-02-13 05:16...(Sunsp0t)...>> tossers like napster wasn't bootlegging artists work, maybe "tossers" how tempting it i
From:
...(Sunsp0t)...
To:
idm@hyperreal.org
Date:
Tue, 13 Feb 2001 0:16:10 -0500
Subject:
Re: RE: [idm] napster
permalink · <200102130516.VAA07837@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
quoted 1 line tossers like napster wasn't bootlegging artists work, maybe>> tossers like napster wasn't bootlegging artists work, maybe
"tossers" how tempting it is to rip on the brit. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-02-13 05:44...(Sunsp0t)...At 2/12/01 5:25:00 PM you wrote: >yes I agree!!! > >lets all discuss some easy topic like
From:
...(Sunsp0t)...
To:
Mike Cadoo
Cc:
idm@hyperreal.org
Date:
Tue, 13 Feb 2001 0:44:25 -0500
Subject:
Re: Re: [idm] napster
permalink · <200102130544.VAA08735@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
At 2/12/01 5:25:00 PM you wrote:
quoted 4 lines yes I agree!!!>yes I agree!!! > >lets all discuss some easy topic like the death penalty or religion >
Okay. The death penalty is flat out wrong....isntituing an action as punishment to rectify the same action is the classic conservative's head-in-the-ass manaeuver. You asked for it! --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-02-13 09:53Martin---------- >From: "alland[byallo]" <alland@humbledesign.com> >To: "idm.list" <idm@hyperrea
From:
Martin
To:
Date:
Tue, 13 Feb 2001 10:53:24 +0100
Subject:
Re: [idm] napster
permalink · <E14SdLq-0005Mx-00@scrabble.freeuk.net>
----------
quoted 5 lines From: "alland[byallo]" <alland@humbledesign.com>>From: "alland[byallo]" <alland@humbledesign.com> >To: "idm.list" <idm@hyperreal.org> >Subject: Re: [idm] napster >Date: Tue, Feb 13, 2001, 2:30 am >
quoted 3 lines Begging... Pleading... PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE>> Begging... Pleading... PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE >> Let's not start another argument about Napster here. >> It'll go on forever and the only outcome will be a 50/50 split in opinion.
o.k., lets all just put our heads up our ass and pretend they don't exist...then we can carry on talking about who does/doesn't sound like aphex twin... --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-02-13 10:09Martin> On Tue, Feb 13, 2001 at 12:40:57AM +0100, Martin wrote: >> Thank God Napster took anothe
From:
Martin
To:
Date:
Tue, 13 Feb 2001 11:09:35 +0100
Subject:
Re: [idm] napster
permalink · <E14SdLs-0005Mx-00@scrabble.freeuk.net>
quoted 11 lines On Tue, Feb 13, 2001 at 12:40:57AM +0100, Martin wrote:> On Tue, Feb 13, 2001 at 12:40:57AM +0100, Martin wrote: >> Thank God Napster took another kicking...fuck off and die you thieves...if >> tossers like napster wasn't bootlegging artists work, maybe more people >> could concentrate on content rather than spending most of their time doing >> crap work to pay the rent, while the corporates just get richer from their >> sweat. >> > > Shut up. > > / wells // wells@submute.net
No...it seems often this list is dominated by people just wanting to slate the last posting rather than have any opinion of there own...by your own message I can see you must be very articulate, sensitive and intelligent and I'm so glad to have people like you, wells, on the list to debate with....thank you for guiding me into the error of my ways... --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-02-13 15:18Jesse McCoppinHere here! I would have never even gotten into electronica AT ALL if it werent for MP3. Th
From:
Jesse McCoppin
To:
'TekDz9ER@aol.com'
Cc:
'IDM list'
Date:
Tue, 13 Feb 2001 08:18:22 -0700
Subject:
RE: [idm] re: napster
permalink · <A8603901092FD31197FB00C00D00C60B0151723C@admin.bvsd.k12.co.us>
Here here! I would have never even gotten into electronica AT ALL if it werent for MP3. The first MP3 I downloaded was and Aphex Twin track, and after that I went and bought every release available. I do download tracks that are out of print, which I think is just as fair as some asshole at a record label saying, "Hey, wouldn't it be funny if we only made 500 copies of this album? That way no one will be able to listen to it!". To that I say, more power to you. Ya could have made more money if you'd made 50,000 instead of 500. Instead, they give me no choice but to get it for free, when I probably would have been happy to purchase it. To bring up a recent topic, we were talking about how lots of people here only like one or 2 aphex twin songs. If this is the case, who would be dumb enough to spend $13-20 on a CD when it only has 6 tracks to begin with, and only one or two MIGHT be good? No wonder people use napster, they just want the good song, not the other crappy 5. In all realism, it is up to the label, RIAA, artist, etc to make the first gesture of peace. Maybe at first you will lose some money if you sell music at a reasonable price, because people will still be getting MP3's instead of buying, but soon that trend will die, and people will buy the real copy again. It's also up to the artist to make the CD WORTH it. Put 10-15 tracks on, make them all worth listening to, and quit thinking your time is sooooo valuable that you have to make millions instead of hundreds of thousands. Any person who has a head on their shoulders should be able to live just as well with half a million dollars a year as they could with 10 mil a year. How greedy do you have to be? What happened to making music for the sake of making music? It's all about the $$ now. Did Mozart charge $40 for people to hear his music? I think not. I believe that an artist should be fairly compensated for his work, but not overcompensated to the point that one minute he's living in a 400 sq. ft. apartment and the next he's giving spare change to Bill Gates. MP3 can help the industry if the industry would allow it to.
quoted 49 lines ----------> ---------- > From: TekDz9ER@aol.com > Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 7:10 PM > To: idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: [idm] re: napster > > Them sounds like fightin' words ta me. But I won't start a fight. I just > > want to say that without Napster, I would never have been able to > experience > some of the great music in our scene. There are so many artists nowadays, > > some good some bad, lots of conflicting opinions on this list. I'm > grateful > that I've been able to find out for myself without having shelled out > hundreds of dollars on crap. Although I sympathize with artists and > labels > who truly believe that they've lost substantial amounts of profit due to > Napster, my truth is that if I discover something that I believe to be a > winner, I'll go out and buy the real thing. So no money lost there. And > it's a great way to stock up on classic and deleted records that one would > > never be able to purchase at any retail music store again. Life sucks > now. > And to all up and coming idm/electronic artists: I'm awfully sorry, but I > > just can't afford to buy all of your music. > > TekDz9er > > <Thank God Napster took another kicking...fuck off and die you > thieves...if > > tossers like napster wasn't bootlegging artists work, maybe more people > > could concentrate on content rather than spending most of their time doing > > crap work to pay the rent, while the corporates just get richer from their > > sweat. > > > Apollon> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >
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2001-02-13 15:27Bill WrightCould you kindly repeat all this (bullshit) to the 99.5% of "idm"/indie artists who work d
From:
Bill Wright
To:
Date:
Tue, 13 Feb 2001 10:27:18 -0500
Subject:
RE: [idm] re: napster
permalink · <4.2.2.20010213102439.03435008@mail.clemson.edu>
Could you kindly repeat all this (bullshit) to the 99.5% of "idm"/indie artists who work dayjobs to support themselves so that they can continue to make (good) music for your enjoyment? At 08:18 AM 2/13/2001 -0700, you wrote:
quoted 3 lines Here here! I would have never even gotten into electronica AT ALL if it>Here here! I would have never even gotten into electronica AT ALL if it >werent for MP3. The first MP3 I downloaded was and Aphex Twin track, and >after that I went and bought every release available. I do download tracks
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-02-13 15:35unlyrn> have to be? What happened to making music for the sake of making music? > It's all about
From:
unlyrn
To:
Date:
Wed, 14 Feb 2001 04:35:48 +1300
Subject:
Re: [idm] re: napster
permalink · <000501c095d2$a4b3ee20$a758b4ca@oemcomputer>
quoted 3 lines have to be? What happened to making music for the sake of making music?> have to be? What happened to making music for the sake of making music? > It's all about the $$ now. Did Mozart charge $40 for people to hear his > music? I think not. I believe that an artist should be fairly
compensated Sorry, I really really wanted to avoid jumping in on another one of the (frequent) stupid threads that pop up here (not that you are stupid <flame protection>, but Napster?). Mozart wrote most of his life's music (including many of the 'great works') under contract from princes, dukes, and the like who wanted music for special occasions, or just something nice to listen to whilst sitting around in their chambers. $40? More like $400000. Of course, he's dead now (and for more than 50 years at that) so all the copyright stuff is invalid... and I bet you were wondering why he wasn't filing lawsuits against all those bad-ass pirate orchestras out there... --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-02-14 02:02interdit--- unlyrn <xen@i4free.co.nz> wrote: > Mozart wrote most of his life's music (including >
From:
interdit
To:
Date:
Tue, 13 Feb 2001 18:02:13 -0800 (PST)
Subject:
Re: [idm] re: napster / Mozart & copyright
Reply to:
Re: [idm] re: napster
permalink · <20010214020213.42983.qmail@web10004.mail.yahoo.com>
--- unlyrn <xen@i4free.co.nz> wrote:
quoted 7 lines Mozart wrote most of his life's music (including> Mozart wrote most of his life's music (including > many of the 'great works') under contract from princes, dukes, and the like > who wanted music for special occasions, or just something nice to listen to > whilst sitting around in their chambers. $40? More like $400000. Of course, > he's dead now (and for more than 50 years at that) so all the copyright > stuff is invalid... and I bet you were wondering why he wasn't filing > lawsuits against all those bad-ass pirate orchestras out there...
And *allegedly* he blew all that cash on whores n booze, just like all the quality idm musicians do today ;) *and* *allegedly* he made the most money off 'the magic flute' which the "snobs" didn't like cos it was too low brow, what with faeiries and magical birds and shit... though in Germany the Opera was/is oft considered the music of the working/agrarian class and they were frequently the biggest audiences, Opera became snobbier when royalty ceased gravy-training those "worthless sod musicians and orchestras.... apparently ;) -i __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-02-13 15:59Joseph MacKay----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Wright" <bill@subtr.ac> To: <idm@hyperreal.org> S
From:
Joseph MacKay
To:
Date:
Tue, 13 Feb 2001 11:59:27 -0400
Subject:
Re: [idm] re: napster
permalink · <006401c095d5$f1bad5a0$12944718@accesscable.net>
----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Wright" <bill@subtr.ac> To: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 11:27 AM Subject: RE: [idm] re: napster
quoted 2 lines Could you kindly repeat all this (bullshit) to the 99.5% of "idm"/indie> Could you kindly repeat all this (bullshit) to the 99.5% of "idm"/indie > artists who work dayjobs to support themselves so that they can continue
to
quoted 1 line make (good) music for your enjoyment?> make (good) music for your enjoyment?
Hmmm... Ya know dude, those guys were all stuck working day jobs before Napster came along. Which is not to say that that's a good thing, but it isn't Napster's fault. If we're all really *really* lucky, Napster et al will do enough damage to the majors that a few new oportunities might open up for those of us stuck in day jobs. The industry as it is certainly isn't going to provide any. If a whole buch of perfectly good musicians are getting screwed as it is, what exactly does one have to lose? ------------------------------------ joemackay@accesswave.ca www.accesswave.ca/~joemackay www.mp3.com/cogito --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-02-13 16:12Bill WrightI was replying to the part about him saying people are making millions, and what differenc
From:
Bill Wright
To:
Date:
Tue, 13 Feb 2001 11:12:19 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] re: napster
Reply to:
Re: [idm] re: napster
permalink · <4.2.2.20010213111139.033f6640@mail.clemson.edu>
I was replying to the part about him saying people are making millions, and what difference does making half a million really make. This does not apply, even remotely, to the vast majority of the artists discussed this list and is an irrelevant argument to this list. Every penny counts for the people in the genre we listen to. Believe it or not, there are releases on Warp selling less than 1000 copies. Imagine how tough it is for other much smaller labels.
quoted 7 lines Hmmm... Ya know dude, those guys were all stuck working day jobs before> Hmmm... Ya know dude, those guys were all stuck working day jobs before >Napster came along. Which is not to say that that's a good thing, but it >isn't Napster's fault. If we're all really *really* lucky, Napster et al >will do enough damage to the majors that a few new oportunities might open >up for those of us stuck in day jobs. The industry as it is certainly isn't >going to provide any. If a whole buch of perfectly good musicians are >getting screwed as it is, what exactly does one have to lose?
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2001-02-13 17:03Philip Sherburne>I do download tracks >that are out of print, which I think is just as fair as some asshol
From:
Philip Sherburne
To:
'idm@hyperreal.org'
Date:
Tue, 13 Feb 2001 09:03:55 -0800
Subject:
RE: [idm] re: napster
permalink · <8EF2E9ED35FFD411BACA00508BCF57C21CBCCD@sagan.ask.com>
quoted 6 lines I do download tracks>I do download tracks >that are out of print, which I think is just as fair as some asshole at a >record label saying, "Hey, wouldn't it be funny if we only made 500 copies >of this album? That way no one will be able to listen to it!". To that I >say, more power to you. Ya could have made more money if you'd made 50,000 >instead of 500. Instead, they give me no choice but to get it for free
Take an economics class, you self-important nimrod, and lose the sense of entitlement. That's not the way that the independent record-label business works - at least, not if the label's going to stay in business. Which, it would seem, you'd prefer that they didn't. At this point I don't even care about the Napster ruling, and I certainly don't want to hash it out any further on this list, but every once in a while you have to speak up in defense of logic. phil --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-02-13 17:15mantrado you know how much money it is to put out 500 cd's? I very well doubt that a record labe
From:
mantra
To:
Philip Sherburne ,
Date:
Tue, 13 Feb 2001 10:15:43 -0700
Subject:
RE: [idm] re: napster
Reply to:
RE: [idm] re: napster
permalink · <NEBBIJOLKLKBOJMPHHNHAEPNCEAA.mantra@neferiu.com>
do you know how much money it is to put out 500 cd's? I very well doubt that a record label's ulterior motive would be to have people NOT listen to the music. idmlist made me very mad today. ________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ n a t e . s c h m o l d n e f e r i u . r e c o r d s w w w . n e f e r i u . c o m 4 0 3 . 2 6 5 . 2 6 2 3 -----Original Message----- From: Philip Sherburne [mailto:philip@askjeeves.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 10:04 AM To: 'idm@hyperreal.org' Subject: RE: [idm] re: napster
quoted 6 lines I do download tracks>I do download tracks >that are out of print, which I think is just as fair as some asshole at a >record label saying, "Hey, wouldn't it be funny if we only made 500 copies >of this album? That way no one will be able to listen to it!". To that I >say, more power to you. Ya could have made more money if you'd made 50,000 >instead of 500. Instead, they give me no choice but to get it for free
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2001-02-13 17:24mantrayeah sorry about that mate.. i never saw the original post, just your reply... that's all
From:
mantra
To:
Philip Sherburne ,
Date:
Tue, 13 Feb 2001 10:24:14 -0700
Subject:
RE: [idm] re: napster
permalink · <NEBBIJOLKLKBOJMPHHNHMEPNCEAA.mantra@neferiu.com>
yeah sorry about that mate.. i never saw the original post, just your reply... that's all i had to go on. I just grabbed your quotes... Sorry Philip. ________________________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ n a t e . s c h m o l d n e f e r i u . r e c o r d s w w w . n e f e r i u . c o m 4 0 3 . 2 6 5 . 2 6 2 3 -----Original Message----- From: Philip Sherburne [mailto:philip@askjeeves.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 10:12 AM To: 'mantra' Subject: RE: [idm] re: napster uh, i didn't say that... was quoting someone else --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-02-13 18:34alland.byalloyou know, you all are wrong. there is one right answer to this whole napster debate. but i
From:
alland.byallo
To:
i dont mind
Date:
Tue, 13 Feb 2001 10:34:06 -0800
Subject:
RE: [idm] re: napster
Reply to:
RE: [idm] re: napster
permalink · <MABBKFGKIBLADBGNBKNJOELCCEAA.alland@humbledesign.com>
you know, you all are wrong. there is one right answer to this whole napster debate. but it's a secret, and i'm not telling. but remember, there is only one right answer. ok fine... i'll tell. but don't say you heard it from me. the secret answer is: blah blah blah. there. now don't we all feel much better having that out in the open? stay tuned, as next i'll let everybody know who's right: the jews or the palestinians. aren't you glad you know me? a. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-02-13 21:48...(Sunsp0t)...At 2/13/01 10:27:00 AM you wrote: >Could you kindly repeat all this (bullshit) to the 99.5
From:
...(Sunsp0t)...
To:
Bill Wright
Cc:
idm@hyperreal.org
Date:
Tue, 13 Feb 2001 16:48:8 -0500
Subject:
Re: RE: [idm] re: napster
permalink · <200102132148.NAA06452@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
At 2/13/01 10:27:00 AM you wrote:
quoted 3 lines Could you kindly repeat all this (bullshit) to the 99.5% of "idm"/indie>Could you kindly repeat all this (bullshit) to the 99.5% of "idm"/indie >artists who work dayjobs to support themselves so that they can continue to >make (good) music for your enjoyment?
I see, so when the the automobile came out, we should have suppressed it for the sake of the horse-carraige drivers, eh? I think you just don't realize, that making music is not a way to make money anymore. At least it won't be. ..And if you step back and look, it really never was. I'm sure I offended many of your with that statement, but.... The INEVITABLE change in music (and most if not all other forms of intellectual property) will be both good and bad. Good, because all the half-assed rockstars will be quickly weeded out, leaving people who truly make music for music's sake. Bad because the equipment and expenses needed to make a record will hinder talented people from creating. Perhaps the "revolution" greratest asset has been to shed light on the true bastards of the industry - the record label moguls themselves. Artificially inflated prices, and obvious trust policies are only now being exposed to the public. As we have seen with the drug war legislation is simply not effective when even just 10% (picked the number out of the air, but the point is clear) of the population disobeys it. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-02-13 22:28Bill WrightRight, well.... I just hope that once it's impossible to make money with music, Aphex and
From:
Bill Wright
To:
Date:
Tue, 13 Feb 2001 17:28:52 -0500
Subject:
Re: RE: [idm] re: napster
Reply to:
Re: RE: [idm] re: napster
permalink · <4.2.2.20010213172219.01346958@mail.clemson.edu>
Right, well.... I just hope that once it's impossible to make money with music, Aphex and Autechre and BoC and u-ziq only send their new tunes to a very small close circle friends they can trust not to spread the work, rather than making any attempts to distribute them. This, way, the jerks who feels they have a inborn right to someone else's work won't have the chance to listen to them, paid or not paid for...
quoted 5 lines The INEVITABLE change in music (and most if not all other forms of>The INEVITABLE change in music (and most if not all other forms of >intellectual property) will be both good and bad. Good, because all the >half-assed rockstars will be quickly weeded out, leaving people who truly >make music for music's sake. Bad because the equipment and expenses needed >to make a record will hinder talented people from creating.
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2001-02-14 05:36adam florinbill wright wrote : >Right, well.... I just hope that once it's impossible to make money >
From:
adam florin
To:
Date:
Wed, 14 Feb 2001 00:36:58 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] re: napster (multi-reply)
Reply to:
Re: RE: [idm] re: napster
permalink · <p04320400b6afc265fbeb@[128.148.222.12]>
bill wright wrote :
quoted 7 lines Right, well.... I just hope that once it's impossible to make money>Right, well.... I just hope that once it's impossible to make money >with music, Aphex and Autechre and BoC and u-ziq only send their new >tunes to a very small close circle friends they can trust not to >spread the work, rather than making any attempts to distribute them. >This, way, the jerks who feels they have a inborn right to someone >else's work won't have the chance to listen to them, paid or not >paid for...
if you, mr. wright, consider listening to music to be stealing it, then you've got to think a bit more about the philosophy of intellectual property and the propagation of culture. the current industry has no concept for the mp3 format, so people think of it as a way to pirate compact discs--what if we think of it as a more diverse, customizable radio station ? of course it's neither, it's a new medium that must be handled in a new way. and this discussion just can't go on until we see some real repercussions from it all--it just hasn't been around long enough. everybody's saying 'napster ruins lives, napster screws over artist and execs', but nobody can prove a thing. funny how the only musicians who are being 'ruined' by it are lars fucking ulrich and mr. dre (no phd!). cheers to jeff from ninja tune for his forward-thinking outlook. hats off to the kronstadt sailors. and as for mr. mccoppin, who feels that musicians trying to earn a living making music is a recent phenomenon (and is somehow a degradation of an idealized world where all composers wrote music only for its own sake), or for sunspot, who feels that music is simply not profitable at all, well... that's all crazy talk, and i think you both know it. in a capitalist society no art exists independantly of the economy. that vague sentence should answer every question on the matter. and i hope that counts as opinion enough for our hot-headed friend martin who rekindled this age-old argument. cheers. .af. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-02-14 14:43Bill WrightWhen did I say listening to music is stealing it? You can't build an argument on a false p
From:
Bill Wright
To:
Date:
Wed, 14 Feb 2001 09:43:48 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] re: napster (reply)
Reply to:
Re: [idm] re: napster (multi-reply)
permalink · <4.2.2.20010214093149.012fe4a8@mail.clemson.edu>
When did I say listening to music is stealing it? You can't build an argument on a false premise, My dear Mr. Florin. I can't really find where I made this argument in the post I made concerning the proposed Utopia where artists are never paid for their work. If you, Mr. Florin, consider giving someone a rose killing them, then you've got to think a bit more about what is and is not "killing". you valentine, Mr. Wright. xoxo At 12:36 AM 2/14/2001 -0500, you wrote:
quoted 13 lines bill wright wrote :>bill wright wrote : > >>Right, well.... I just hope that once it's impossible to make money with >>music, Aphex and Autechre and BoC and u-ziq only send their new tunes to >>a very small close circle friends they can trust not to spread the work, >>rather than making any attempts to distribute them. This, way, the jerks >>who feels they have a inborn right to someone else's work won't have the >>chance to listen to them, paid or not paid for... > > >if you, mr. wright, consider listening to music to be stealing it, then >you've got to think a bit more about the philosophy of intellectual >property and the propagation of
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2001-02-13 21:50...(Sunsp0t)...> >Believe it or not, there are releases on Warp selling less than 1000 >copies. ..and the
From:
...(Sunsp0t)...
To:
Bill Wright
Cc:
idm@hyperreal.org
Date:
Tue, 13 Feb 2001 16:50:6 -0500
Subject:
Re: Re: [idm] re: napster
permalink · <200102132150.NAA15152@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
quoted 3 lines Believe it or not, there are releases on Warp selling less than 1000> >Believe it or not, there are releases on Warp selling less than 1000 >copies.
..and they should be THANKING Napster for providing the ultimate exposure campaign they've ever had. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-02-13 22:39Jeff/Ninja TuneReading to much into the whole thing. It's just another form of distribution that probably
From:
Jeff/Ninja Tune
Cc:
idm@hyperreal.org
Date:
Tue, 13 Feb 2001 17:39:26 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] re: napster
Reply to:
Re: Re: [idm] re: napster
permalink · <B6AF21C3.41F4%jeff@ninjatune.net>
Reading to much into the whole thing. It's just another form of distribution that probably won't rock the boat much more then it has already has (which has been significant but hasn't exactly killed record/cd sales).VHS didn't kill off the movie theatre. You know when you see a trailer for a mediocre movie and say "that's a rental", well mediocre records will be "that's a download". As a record label owner I sat on the fence with Napster. I could appreciate it on a lot of levels, but thought that the glorification of what it supposedly "stood for" was pretty lame. How was it again that all record labels became "bad people" yet Napster was "cool". I don't have a CEO. I didn't sell my company to BMG (Although in fairness a lot of people seemed to be able to figure out there was a difference between labels like Ninja and labels like Universal). That's bit harsh and I'm sure the Napster people are okay people, but I was a bit miffed at public reaction to a lot of things.. I think they could have gone about the whole thing a lot better and managed to survive. Oh well we'll see what happens. Sorry to drag it out again. Think I'll go home and crank out some Slim Gailard 78's on the 'ol Victorolo Jeff on 2/13/01 4:00 PM, ...(Sunsp0t)... at sunspot@subdimension.com wrote:
quoted 39 lines At 2/13/01 10:27:00 AM you wrote:> At 2/13/01 10:27:00 AM you wrote: >> Could you kindly repeat all this (bullshit) to the 99.5% of "idm"/indie >> artists who work dayjobs to support themselves so that they can continue to >> make (good) music for your enjoyment? > > > > I see, so when the the automobile came out, we should have suppressed it for > the sake of the horse-carraige drivers, eh? > > > I think you just don't realize, that making music is not a way to make money > anymore. At least it won't be. ..And if you step back and look, it really > never was. I'm sure I offended many of your with that statement, but.... > > > > The INEVITABLE change in music (and most if not all other forms of > intellectual property) will be both good and bad. Good, because all the > half-assed rockstars will be quickly weeded out, leaving people who truly make > music for music's sake. Bad because the equipment and expenses needed to make > a record will hinder talented people from creating. > > Perhaps the "revolution" greratest asset has been to shed light on the true > bastards of the industry - the record label moguls themselves. Artificially > inflated prices, and obvious trust policies are only now being exposed to the > public. > > As we have seen with the drug war legislation is simply not effective when > even just 10% (picked the number out of the air, but the point is clear) of > the population disobeys it. > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >
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2001-02-13 22:26César Laia> Believe it or not, there are releases on Warp selling less than 1000 > copies. > In Port
From:
César Laia
To:
Date:
Tue, 13 Feb 2001 22:26:57 -0000
Subject:
Re: Re: [idm] re: napster
permalink · <001b01c0960c$13bcfb20$a590e4d5@netvisao.pt>
quoted 3 lines Believe it or not, there are releases on Warp selling less than 1000> Believe it or not, there are releases on Warp selling less than 1000 > copies. >
In Portugal even a classic like "music has the right to children" is not easily found in stores. And I'm talking about large cities, not small towns :) If I want to ear some EP from Arovane, Funkstörung, whatever, and I don't trust the Net as a medium to buy anything, I would have two options: forget the record or going to napster. Another example, yesterday I tried to find Bola in stores and... I didn't found. I could give you more examples. I believe if you have cash ($$$$) or if you live in large cities in England, Napster is stealing money from artists. But when cash is low and/or you don't live in cities with good stores, Napster (or Audiogalaxy ;) ) is realy an option... And access to culture should be universal, I think... Regards César --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2001-02-13 22:59Jesse McCoppinwell said! thanks again for the Universal Indicator Green! > ---------- > From: Jeff/Ninja
From:
Jesse McCoppin
To:
'Jeff/Ninja Tune'
Cc:
'IDM list'
Date:
Tue, 13 Feb 2001 15:59:45 -0700
Subject:
RE: [idm] re: napster
permalink · <A8603901092FD31197FB00C00D00C60B01517248@admin.bvsd.k12.co.us>
well said! thanks again for the Universal Indicator Green!
quoted 96 lines ----------> ---------- > From: Jeff/Ninja Tune > Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 3:39 PM > Cc: idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: Re: [idm] re: napster > > Reading to much into the whole thing. It's just another form of > distribution > that probably won't rock the boat much more then it has already has (which > has been significant but hasn't exactly killed record/cd sales).VHS didn't > kill off the movie theatre. You know when you see a trailer for a mediocre > movie and say "that's a rental", well mediocre records will be "that's a > download". > > As a record label owner I sat on the fence with Napster. I could > appreciate > it on a lot of levels, but thought that the glorification of what it > supposedly "stood for" was pretty lame. How was it again that all record > labels became "bad people" yet Napster was "cool". I don't have a CEO. I > didn't sell my company to BMG (Although in fairness a lot of people seemed > to be able to figure out there was a difference between labels like Ninja > and labels like Universal). That's bit harsh and I'm sure the Napster > people > are okay people, but I was a bit miffed at public reaction to a lot of > things.. I think they could have gone about the whole thing a lot better > and > managed to survive. Oh well we'll see what happens. > > Sorry to drag it out again. Think I'll go home and crank out some Slim > Gailard 78's on the 'ol Victorolo > > > Jeff > > > > on 2/13/01 4:00 PM, ...(Sunsp0t)... at sunspot@subdimension.com wrote: > > > At 2/13/01 10:27:00 AM you wrote: > >> Could you kindly repeat all this (bullshit) to the 99.5% of "idm"/indie > >> artists who work dayjobs to support themselves so that they can > continue to > >> make (good) music for your enjoyment? > > > > > > > > I see, so when the the automobile came out, we should have suppressed it > for > > the sake of the horse-carraige drivers, eh? > > > > > > I think you just don't realize, that making music is not a way to make > money > > anymore. At least it won't be. ..And if you step back and look, it > really > > never was. I'm sure I offended many of your with that statement, but.... > > > > > > > > The INEVITABLE change in music (and most if not all other forms of > > intellectual property) will be both good and bad. Good, because all the > > half-assed rockstars will be quickly weeded out, leaving people who > truly make > > music for music's sake. Bad because the equipment and expenses needed to > make > > a record will hinder talented people from creating. > > > > Perhaps the "revolution" greratest asset has been to shed light on the > true > > bastards of the industry - the record label moguls themselves. > Artificially > > inflated prices, and obvious trust policies are only now being exposed > to the > > public. > > > > As we have seen with the drug war legislation is simply not effective > when > > even just 10% (picked the number out of the air, but the point is clear) > of > > the population disobeys it. > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >
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2001-02-14 00:34LOWONICE13@aol.comI completely agree, freedom of information, spreading knowledge and culture. In a message
From:
To:
Date:
Tue, 13 Feb 2001 19:34:44 EST
Subject:
Re: [idm] re: napster
permalink · <68.c0410cf.27bb2ca4@aol.com>
I completely agree, freedom of information, spreading knowledge and culture. In a message dated 2/13/01 6:10:11 PM Central Standard Time, cesar.laia@netvisao.pt writes:
quoted 7 lines Believe it or not, there are releases on Warp selling less than 1000> > Believe it or not, there are releases on Warp selling less than 1000 > > copies. > > > > > In Portugal even a classic like "music has the right to children" is not > easily found in stores. And I'm talking about large cities, not small
towns
quoted 14 lines :) If I want to ear some EP from Arovane, Funkstörung, whatever, and I> :) If I want to ear some EP from Arovane, Funkstörung, whatever, and I > don't trust the Net as a medium to buy anything, I would have two options: > forget the record or going to napster. Another example, yesterday I tried > to find Bola in stores and... I didn't found. I could give you more > examples. I believe if you have cash ($$$$) or if you live in large cities > in England, Napster is stealing money from artists. But when cash is low > and/or you don't live in cities with good stores, Napster (or Audiogalaxy > ;) ) is realy an option... And access to culture should be universal, I > think... > > Regards > > César >
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2001-02-14 01:52...(Sunsp0t)...And he was talking about the simplicity of capital punishment for breaking the "rules of t
From:
...(Sunsp0t)...
To:
idm@hyperreal.org
Date:
Tue, 13 Feb 2001 20:52:25 -0500
Subject:
[idm] Fw: Re: [idm] re: napster
permalink · <200102140152.RAA01888@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
And he was talking about the simplicity of capital punishment for breaking the "rules of the game" :) *******This is a forward message***** I completely agree, freedom of information, spreading knowledge and culture. In a message dated 2/13/01 6:10:11 PM Central Standard Time, cesar.laia@netvisao.pt writes:
quoted 7 lines Believe it or not, there are releases on Warp selling less than 1000> > Believe it or not, there are releases on Warp selling less than 1000 > > copies. > > > > > In Portugal even a classic like "music has the right to children" is not > easily found in stores. And I'm talking about large cities, not small
towns
quoted 14 lines :) If I want to ear some EP from Arovane, Funkst?rung, whatever, and I> :) If I want to ear some EP from Arovane, Funkst?rung, whatever, and I > don't trust the Net as a medium to buy anything, I would have two options: > forget the record or going to napster. Another example, yesterday I tried > to find Bola in stores and... I didn't found. I could give you more > examples. I believe if you have cash ($$$$) or if you live in large cities > in England, Napster is stealing money from artists. But when cash is low > and/or you don't live in cities with good stores, Napster (or Audiogalaxy > ;) ) is realy an option... And access to culture should be universal, I > think... > > Regards > > C?sar >
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org *****End Forward***** ______________________ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Sunsp0t sunspot@subdimension.comR --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org