Clarification is necessary here.
You are kind of right, but mostly incorrect. 12 tone composition does not
simply connote repetition of the same 12 notes over and over again in the
same order (which, I'm assuming you knew that the ORDER of the notes was
important). It is/was created by taking the "row" of 12 tones in a
particular order, and creating what is called a matrix from these 12 tones.
the tones are written from left to right, and its inversion is written top
to bottom, both starting with the same note, and similar inversions are
built downward off of each note to make a grid of notes (it's actually a bit
more in depth, but let's go to bed at a decent hour, eh?). Now, If you've
ever heard Schoenberg's music, you would see that he very rarely repeats the
row in its pure form. He will almost always use one of the 11 inversions,
12 retrograde, or 12 retrograde inversions of the row. So, as you can see,
it isn't really a loop because it still almost never reappears in it's
original form, unless it is a melodic recapitulation of the theme. Also
crucial to Schoenberg's compositional process is the concept of developing
variation (which he did INNOVATE, you whining innovation player-haters out
there), which involves introducing an idea (maybe a loop, in the music we
love today) and then repeating an altered version of the same thing. So,
basically, Schoenberg NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER really repeats full on. Oh,
maybe only once or twice in his whole career (don't hold me to that number).
If you want to check out his most rigid 12 tone work, it would be his first,
opus 25 (i think that's the number) for piano. It is still pretty loose
with the formula, though, and as he got older, he just fucked with serialism
until nobody could keep up with him! His music is amazing!
Here's something for you all to fight like children about: FACT: Music
historians and professors the world over (myself included) believe Bach and
Schoenberg to be the two most important composers of music in the history of
humankind, as the father of tonal music and the father of pantonal music (or
atonal, if you like).
FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!!!!!!
Actually, please do not fight! learn from one another!
petey
quoted 30 lines From: Ian Pojman <ipojman@jmlafferty.com>
>From: Ian Pojman <ipojman@jmlafferty.com>
>To: <idm@hyperreal.org>
>Subject: [idm] Re: schoenberg ?= random and CHAOS#$@
>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 12:46:39 -0600
>
>on 12/15/00 9:17 PM, idm-digest-help@hyperreal.org at
>idm-digest-help@hyperreal.org wrote:
>
> > Are there loops in chaos?
> >
> > g.
>
>yes, chaos has order. thats the whole beauty of it.
>
>
> >> Although I'm not so familiar with his work, perhaps Arnold Shoenberg's
>12
> >> tone compositions fit into the "non loop based" category. Perhaps
>Zappa?
>
> >No, actually, Schoenberg's serial works are heavily "loop" based, if you
> >accept a loose definition of loop, which seems to be what the "fuck-a-dog
> >challenge" person had in mind.
>
>Schoenberg would shit if you guys really thought his music was just random
>notes. And yes, thats what the "fuck-a-dog" person had in mind (-- No, I
>like tight definitions of the word loop - only in meter. Come on. :P)
>
>Anyway, FYI... 12 tones ARE loops. Usin the same recurring 12 tones. THINK
>about it man.quoted 3 lines ------------------
>------------------
>Ian / / / / delphi
>
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
http://www.hotmail.com.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org
For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org