IDM Mailing Archive

2000-08-29 00:19Chris Fahey(yes, there is a mention of SLAYER in this email!) There are 467 beats in every minute in

From:: Chris Fahey <Chris.Fahey@raremedium.com>
To:: 'Anthony Saunders' <anthonysaunders@yahoo.com>, <IDM@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 20:19:07 -0400
Subject:: RE: [idm] 467 bpm and yes fucking SLAYER !!

(yes, there is a mention of SLAYER in this email!) There are 467 beats in every minute in your track, thats for sure. But all of those beats are the same boomboomboomboomboomboom drum smash, so you can hardly use that as a meaningful measure of the bpm. The occasional heavy metal/thrash samples seem to loop at a rate of about two measures per second, with each measure acting like a beat. So it sounds to me like a simple 120 BPM or so with big loud beats on every quarter note. One can interpret it either way, and of course you know best since you composed it. And for the most part, the song does move along at 467 BPM with no other sounds besides the boomboomboomboomboom. I still argue that unless you are composing your track for a hummingbird on speed - or unless the human physical capacity for feeling out a rhythm is not a major concern in your work (a perfectly acceptible and common idea in contemporary music, exemplified by conceptual, ambient, and noise music) - then you ought to keep the 80-140 range in mind as you compose. I think you did so unconsciously when you made sure that the song had some slower patterns on top of the fast pattern. Effectively, your track chugs along at 467, then when the thrash and vocal samples come in my focus immediately ignores the breakneck 'headbanging' part and moves over to the slower 'mosh' part (this is the genius of the headbang/mosh/headbang/mosh song structure of, say, Slayer's "Angel of Death", which was recorded when many of you were in kindergarden). I think a lot of d&b artists think that jacking up the BPM makes them more hardcore, when in fact all it does is make their tracks utterly groove-less. Groovelessness is cool, except for the fact that almost nobody ever likes it. This is all my personal opinion - I'm not a big fan of noisy music unless there's some perceptible thought-provoking conceptual foundation for it. Every IDM person who is into fast BPM should really become intimate with mid 80's thrash metal. (But for chrissakes don't sample the stuff, it's concentrated evil!) -Cf

quoted 50 lines -----Original Message-----

> -----Original Message----- > From: Anthony Saunders [mailto:anthonysaunders@yahoo.com] > Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2000 2:12 PM > To: IDM@hyperreal.org > Subject: [idm] 467 bpm and glitchy tracks > > > I got a couple requests for this, so here is a link to > an mp3 of a speedcore track I did in 97 or 98 at 467 > bpm. It's a little kitchy cuz of the guitar samples, > but it does have a nice breakbeat/idm breakdown in the > middle. This was sequenced in Rebirth 1.5. > > http://www.overwhelmed.org/ataru/audio/alreadydead.mp3 > > Also, i'm pretty late in the game to just have started > listening to glitchy ambient music, but thanks to > recent Oval purchases and a Otomo Yoshihide & Sachiko > M cd I've had for years but never before really > understood, I've turned my noise making habits in this > direction. > > Here are two tracks I've done entirely in a simple > aiff editor: > > http://www.overwhelmed.org/ataru/audio/glitchnoise.mp3 > > http://www.overwhelmed.org/ataru/audio/drone.mp3 > > I am posting these links not cuz I think my tracks are > particularly brilliant (though I do like them enough > to share), rather it is because I'd like to know what > artists are doing similar material, so that I can hear > more of this type of sound! (these two tracks are very > different in feel) > > Anyhow, thanks for any feedback / response, it'll be > much apreciated. > > Anthony > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! > http://mail.yahoo.com/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

2000-08-29 17:24Ian Pojmanahahahaha good one chris. ----------------------------------------------------------------

From:: Ian Pojman <ian@webice.net>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 12:24:05 -0500
Subject:: [idm] slayer
Reply to:: RE: [idm] 467 bpm and yes fucking SLAYER !!

ahahahaha good one chris. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

2000-08-29 01:20cutup> There are 467 beats in every minute in your track, thats for sure. But all > of those be

From:: cutup <cutup@andythepooh.com>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 21:20:14 -0400
Subject:: Re: [idm] 467 bpm and yes fucking SLAYER !!

quoted 1 line There are 467 beats in every minute in your track, thats for sure. But

> There are 467 beats in every minute in your track, thats for sure. But

all

quoted 1 line of those beats are the same boomboomboomboomboomboom drum smash, so you

> of those beats are the same boomboomboomboomboomboom drum smash, so you

can

quoted 5 lines hardly use that as a meaningful measure of the bpm. The occasional heavy

> hardly use that as a meaningful measure of the bpm. The occasional heavy > metal/thrash samples seem to loop at a rate of about two measures per > second, with each measure acting like a beat. So it sounds to me like a > simple 120 BPM or so with big loud beats on every quarter note. One can > interpret it either way, and of course you know best since you composed

it.

quoted 2 lines And for the most part, the song does move along at 467 BPM with no other

> And for the most part, the song does move along at 467 BPM with no other > sounds besides the boomboomboomboomboom.

Isn't that the point of "bpm"? To count the audible beats. Its a funny thing because it really could be interpreted differently depending on where the emphasis is. 40 bpm is 80 bpm is 160 bpm is 320 bpm. So say there's 320 seperate 'ticks' per minute, if the boom is on every 8th tick you're running 40 bpm, every 4th you're 80 bpm, every other 160, and every 320. Makes sense. The hazey area might be where you have say kicks on every one of 320 ticks, but there's a significantly louder more pronounced beat on every 8th tick. There's loads of hardcore tracks that do this with an underlying hiphop beats.

quoted 2 lines I still argue that unless you are composing your track for a hummingbird

> I still argue that unless you are composing your track for a hummingbird > on speed - or unless the human physical capacity for feeling out a rhythm

quoted 1 line not a major concern in your work (a perfectly acceptible and common idea

> not a major concern in your work (a perfectly acceptible and common idea

quoted 2 lines contemporary music, exemplified by conceptual, ambient, and noise music) -

> contemporary music, exemplified by conceptual, ambient, and noise music) - > then you ought to keep the 80-140 range in mind as you compose. I think

you

quoted 2 lines did so unconsciously when you made sure that the song had some slower

> did so unconsciously when you made sure that the song had some slower > patterns on top of the fast pattern. Effectively, your track chugs along

at Its definitely more interesting if you can switch the feeling of the tempo in the track even if you're following the convention of keeping the actual bpm or count the same throughout the track. With electronics alot of people are trying to push people to appriciate a different aesthetic, like you mention. I'm no musical scholar, but i don't know anything about human nature that says we only appricaite 80-140. Although i totally see where you come from with it. When i hear slower tracks i usually "feel" them in double time, and faster tracks i usually feel them in half time.

quoted 2 lines 467, then when the thrash and vocal samples come in my focus immediately

> 467, then when the thrash and vocal samples come in my focus immediately > ignores the breakneck 'headbanging' part and moves over to the slower

'mosh'

quoted 2 lines part (this is the genius of the headbang/mosh/headbang/mosh song structure

> part (this is the genius of the headbang/mosh/headbang/mosh song structure > of, say, Slayer's "Angel of Death", which was recorded when many of you

were

quoted 1 line in kindergarden).

> in kindergarden).

Or consider the whole black metal style with long slow orchestral parts then blast beats. You're probably rocking at quadruple time during the fast parts in some tracks...

quoted 1 line I think a lot of d&b artists think that jacking up the BPM makes them

> I think a lot of d&b artists think that jacking up the BPM makes them

quoted 1 line hardcore, when in fact all it does is make their tracks utterly

> hardcore, when in fact all it does is make their tracks utterly

groove-less.

quoted 3 lines Groovelessness is cool, except for the fact that almost nobody ever likes

> Groovelessness is cool, except for the fact that almost nobody ever likes > it. This is all my personal opinion - I'm not a big fan of noisy music > unless there's some perceptible thought-provoking conceptual foundation

for

quoted 1 line it.

> it.

Does it? I don't know. Does it make that much difference between 160 bpm and 175 bpm? DJs years ago when i guess things were supposedly 'groovier' djs would still push it up +8 which makes a 160 track almost 175 anyway...Its pretty hard to deny the groovyness of some of the new d+b coming out that definitely runs over a 170 clip. And at one time i remember when people thought 140bpm+ was undancible... - cutups --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

RE: [idm] 467 bpm and yes fucking SLAYER !!