IDM Mailing Archive

I'm probably the nerdiest music theory guy on here so let me say this: Any time signature can sound like just about any other because there is nothing that says you've got to put the kick drum sound on the first downbeat or any of the downbeats for that matter. If you superimpose nothing but quarter note triplets into a 4/4 pattern, its gonna sound like 3/4. Then again, you don't even have to incorporate a traditional time pattern. Exhibit A: Autechre's "Rpeg" or many things from Lp5 or the Anti-Ep. Don't make me explain coupled duplets or triplets...

quoted 4 lines to be a total music nerd...

>to be a total music nerd... > >4/4 CAN sound like 6/8 if you play it "swingy" enough >--

________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

dude it does have vocals :P but yeah you get what you ask for posting to a buch of geeks like me. -----Original Message----- From: Matthew Guest [mailto:mguest@alphagraphics.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 4:07 PM To: Intelligent Dance Music Subject: RE: [idm] time signatures Thank goodness this is the IDM list. If the music had vocals, we'd all be sucked into like threads about aural theory... eeek.... ;) -matT --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

That would be fun :)

quoted 16 lines From: "Matthew Guest" <mguest@alphagraphics.com>

>From: "Matthew Guest" <mguest@alphagraphics.com> >To: "Intelligent Dance Music" <idm@hyperreal.org> >Subject: RE: [idm] time signatures >Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 16:06:41 -0500 > >Thank goodness this is the IDM list. If the music had vocals, we'd all be >sucked into like threads about aural theory... eeek.... > >;) >-matT > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 8 lines Any time signature can sound like just about any other because there is

> > Any time signature can sound like just about any other because there is > nothing that says you've got to put the kick drum sound on the first > downbeat or any of the downbeats for that matter. > > If you superimpose nothing but quarter note triplets into a 4/4 pattern, its > gonna sound like 3/4. >

Yes - that is a better point to make. The thing is I think time signatures needn't really apply to idm (nearly all is 4/4 really), but composers would use it to lay down the basic rhythm of a bar - so 6/8 would have two clear beats, split into triplets - once that is laid down as a basis, when duplets are used (ie 2 across 3) it doesn't sound like 4/4 necessarily, but more interesting than that and variety is added. In a different way, 2/4 would be used to write marches, with a clear 'one-two-one-two' feel - not 'one-two-three-four'. If anyone own's Plaid's 'Undoneson' - have a listen out because I think it is one of the few (idm) tracks I've heard that sound more 2/4 than 4/4. To take the discussion (perhaps) to a different area - I find it interesting how difficult it is when making music to escape from the four bar (or multiples of) segments that western music seems to be so ingrained into.I mean loops in particular - chord sequences, beats whatever, sound most natural when looped in multiples of 4, and new sections being brought in and out of the mix, and the music becomes predictable - you begin to expect something to happen every 4 bars and if nothing changes then the groove just gets repetitive. Hmmm. Cue comedy comments a-plenty... --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Because I don't make music in realtime, I love making each bar similar, but slightly different in length and/or time signature. I think it sounds cool to do one bar with 18 notes, then 16, the 20, then 16 for instance. But if you keep the beat 4/4 it just starts to sound a little odd and/or delayed. also, I like to phase (is this the right term for this process?) different parts, making the beat 7/4, but the overlying melody is in 4/4. over time the two parts meet up again, but before they do, the song seems to go on and on without being repetitious. Lastly, I think 3/4, 5/4, 7/4, and 9/4 are far more fun to work with than boring old 4 on the floor. btw, these are my opinions, and wrong terms may have been aplied to certain things, but I have developed processes that work for me, so flame away... -Matt- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Something else of interest: Originally 3/4 was considered 'perfect' time by the greeks, our musical forefathers in many ways ... they gave it a circle as a time signature, and gave 4/4 a slightly broken circle, which we now still use and call "common time"... (the slightly broken circle happens to look like a C...) -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Lowes [mailto:thomas.lowes@worcester.oxford.ac.uk] Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 4:31 PM To: idm@hyperreal.org Subject: [idm] time signatures

quoted 6 lines Any time signature can sound like just about any other because there is

> > Any time signature can sound like just about any other because there is > nothing that says you've got to put the kick drum sound on the first > downbeat or any of the downbeats for that matter. > > If you superimpose nothing but quarter note triplets into a 4/4 pattern,

its

quoted 2 lines gonna sound like 3/4.

> gonna sound like 3/4. >

Yes - that is a better point to make. The thing is I think time signatures needn't really apply to idm (nearly all is 4/4 really), but composers would use it to lay down the basic rhythm of a bar - so 6/8 would have two clear beats, split into triplets - once that is laid down as a basis, when duplets are used (ie 2 across 3) it doesn't sound like 4/4 necessarily, but more interesting than that and variety is added. In a different way, 2/4 would be used to write marches, with a clear 'one-two-one-two' feel - not 'one-two-three-four'. If anyone own's Plaid's 'Undoneson' - have a listen out because I think it is one of the few (idm) tracks I've heard that sound more 2/4 than 4/4. To take the discussion (perhaps) to a different area - I find it interesting how difficult it is when making music to escape from the four bar (or multiples of) segments that western music seems to be so ingrained into.I mean loops in particular - chord sequences, beats whatever, sound most natural when looped in multiples of 4, and new sections being brought in and out of the mix, and the music becomes predictable - you begin to expect something to happen every 4 bars and if nothing changes then the groove just gets repetitive. Hmmm. Cue comedy comments a-plenty... --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

One thing along these lines which I think is genius is a track like "Ire" from Imminent Starvation's Nord cd. It doesn't stray from 4/4 time and the rhythm part cycles in standard 32 bar phrases, but the melody cylces in something wierd like 10 bar or 15 bar phrases, so when you land on the "one" of the melody, you're midway through some rhytmic figure, and when your kick drum finds "one," the melody isn't finished and the whole thing has to continue until both of the things land on "one" at the same time either naturally or by adding or subtracting some part of that melody or rhythm part. Oliver Moreau is genius.

quoted 13 lines To take the discussion (perhaps) to a different area - I find it

>To take the discussion (perhaps) to a different area - I find it >interesting how >difficult it is when making music to escape from the four bar (or multiples >of) >segments that western music seems to be so ingrained into.I mean loops in >particular - chord sequences, beats whatever, sound most natural when >looped in >multiples of 4, and new sections being brought in and out of the mix, and >the >music becomes predictable - you begin to expect something to happen every 4 >bars >and if nothing changes then the groove just gets repetitive. >

________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Well the problem with making songs in just 3/4, 5/4, and 7/4 is that its just as repetitious as a 4/4 repeating. Thus you get the maximum effect of "off-beats" when combining evens and odds for example, like 7 4/4s and a 3/4 (which you could interpret as 31/32).... you could look at this is chopping off the last beat in a long pattern. This s the most common way of giving the off-beat feel, I believe, but I hate it, its to orthodox and has been done many times before. What I love about autchre, especially the newest LP and EP, is time sigs are totally fluid and dynamic. THIS is the off-beat I dig. Lots more intelligent tan doing 63/64 or some shit, these guys take it everywhere.. I think those two albums are EXCELLENT especially in this area (time sigs).. I recommend everyone hear that shit that hasnt that wants to see some good examples of unorthodox time signatures. IAn ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Matt Anderson" <655321@telus.net> Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 12:12:43 -0700

quoted 24 lines Because I don't make music in realtime, I love making each bar similar, but

>Because I don't make music in realtime, I love making each bar similar, but >slightly different in length and/or time signature. I think it sounds cool >to do one bar with 18 notes, then 16, the 20, then 16 for instance. But if >you keep the beat 4/4 it just starts to sound a little odd and/or delayed. > >also, I like to phase (is this the right term for this process?) different >parts, making the beat 7/4, but the overlying melody is in 4/4. over time >the two parts meet up again, but before they do, the song seems to go on and >on without being repetitious. > >Lastly, I think 3/4, 5/4, 7/4, and 9/4 are far more fun to work with than >boring old 4 on the floor. > >btw, these are my opinions, and wrong terms may have been aplied to certain >things, but I have developed processes that work for me, so flame away... > >-Matt- > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > ></font>

--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org