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Re: [idm] Rap in IDM...?

13 messages · 10 participants · spans 4 days · search this subject
2000-05-23 10:05[idm] Rap in IDM...?
├─ 2000-05-23 11:10Konstantin Minko RE: [idm] Rap in IDM...?
└─ 2000-05-23 15:02Josh Davison Re: [idm] Rap in IDM...?
2000-05-23 13:06jre Re: [idm] Rap in IDM...?
2000-05-23 13:46Greg Malcolm Re: [idm] Rap in IDM...?
├─ 2000-05-23 15:06Josh Davison Re: [idm] Rap in IDM...?
└─ 2000-05-27 05:07matt Re: [idm] Rap in IDM...?
2000-05-23 15:05Jeff Shoemaker Re: [idm] Rap in IDM...?
2000-05-23 15:25Greg Malcolm Re: [idm] Rap in IDM...?
2000-05-23 16:06Re: [idm] Rap in IDM...?
2000-05-23 16:36jre Re: [idm] Rap in IDM...?
└─ 2000-05-24 15:31Neferiu Records RE: [idm] Rap in IDM...?
2000-05-23 17:35Steve Oliver Re: [idm] Rap in IDM...?
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2000-05-23 10:05Neujinn01@aol.comI just got finished listening to the new Funkstorung as well, and for me it begs the quest
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Tue, 23 May 2000 06:05:37 EDT
Subject:
[idm] Rap in IDM...?
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I just got finished listening to the new Funkstorung as well, and for me it begs the question that I must ask: Does the fusion of IDM an Rap really work all that well? I generally really like Funkstorung, and have consistently enjoyed their work pretty much up to this point. I have noted obviously their fascination with infusing hip-hop/rap elements in their music with such tracks like their remix on the East Flatbush project and Add'l Prod., both of which I think succeeded only moderately well. The fusion both times I felt to be tenuous at best. It always seems forced, or strained. Like an element that doesn't belong. (Of course, there are loads of other IDM artists who incorporate hip-hop elements in their music as well, Autechre being no exception, and each time, from what I can hear, to questionable results.) The problem is I think they are just two very different genres of music listened to for very different reasons. A good rap track can have steady beat (usually a typical 4/4 or otherwise), a funky baseline, hopefully an original sample, and an MC whose rhymes flow in tandem with the beat and rhythmn. (When it's done well, that is.) And that's fine. IDM can have a similiar mindset, but is ever moving forward as a genre, pushing the limits of sound and structure into bounds well beyond what any average listener would even call music. And that's fine, too. Great even! It is why I've always liked it and listened to it. Rap, however (primarily in it's current state of stagnancy) isn't concerned with any of these things (as neither is most anything mainstream), probably because simply it doesn't need to be. It will all make it onto MTV just the same. And it just never seems to work when these two conceptually opposed musical cousins are brought together. Having an MC rapping over Funkstorung's beautiful squeeches and squelches, disjointed rhythms and distorted melodies just doesn't work for me. Sorry. And while the singing vocals weren't as jarring, I found myself groaning every time an MC chimed in over the glitchy squelchy rhythmic mayhem of Funkstorung, which is solely what I was looking forward to when I bought the cd. I found all the MC'ing to be an unwelcome addition. I think it grounds the album's otherwise impressive sonics down in a way which I felt worked against it, rather than with it. You've probably surmised by now that I'm not the biggest fan of Rap. Well, it's really only modern day rap in particular. The reason being is that I think it has descended into nothing more than yet another commercial medium absorbed whole by the mainstream, and, in a striking bit of irony, has become the very thing that's initial inception was meant to defy against. Gone is the classic originality of the old school, where a clever sample, a catchy beat and a good rhyme got you everywhere, and not just what hit single from a decade ago you can get the rights to, add a new beat, rap over it, and make millions of dollars from. IDM is one of the few bastions of hope I have left in a largely uncreative, cruel mainstream MTV world. It could be that my alarm in hearing more and more rap/hip-hop elements creeping into my IDM is the sign of the Mainstream finally making it to the shores of IDM it getting it's money grubbing hands on my music (shudder to think), and it in turn suffering a similiar commericial fate and losing it's potency, much like rap did. (The day I hear Ae or Funkstorung in a Mountain Dew commercial, I'll KNOW it's the end and just commit Seppuku.) Of course, any artist should always be free to explore whatever creative avenues they wish in their music. But really, If I wanted to hear an MC, then I'd go to down Tower Records and pick up whoever newest commercial sensation is this week off the Top 10 chart. Bottom line, I'm just not interested in hearing it over my squeeches and squelches. Again, it could just be my own bias talking, brought on by my groaning frustration with all things mainstream. Or maybe, like I said, MC rapping and glitchy squelchy IDM just don't mix well. I don't know.... --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-05-23 11:10Konstantin MinkoI just don't understand why all of you whine about rap vocals on new F-ung. It doesn't fit
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Konstantin Minko
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Date:
Tue, 23 May 2000 14:10:41 +0300
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RE: [idm] Rap in IDM...?
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[idm] Rap in IDM...?
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I just don't understand why all of you whine about rap vocals on new F-ung. It doesn't fit, it doesn't fall into same frequency range... etc. I just think it is a mind blowing record full of surprises and unpredictable fusions. If it does not sound as anything you've heard before it does not mean it's bad. It is new. But hey - who said that the beat and voice and background music shall be mixed in certain way with certain volume limitations and not the other? I mean no offence but after reading your posts I am sure I would better avoid this album than buy it for "extraexaggarated price of $15". 8-) But this album is fantastic and I strongly advise anyone into F-ung sound to ignore negative reaction from the list and give it a try at least. THIS POST IS STRICTLY MHO. Alien np. U-ziq "Lunatic Harness" btw. I am not a rap fan - I'd rather say I hate it in most of its interpretations. Only such bands as Cypress Hill, Tribe Called Quest and couple of others justify for me the very presence of rap culture.
quoted 108 lines -----Original Message-----> -----Original Message----- > From: Neujinn01@aol.com [mailto:Neujinn01@aol.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 1:06 PM > To: idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: [idm] Rap in IDM...? > > > I just got finished listening to the new Funkstorung as well, > and for me > it begs the question that I must ask: Does the fusion of IDM an > Rap really > work all that well? > I generally really like Funkstorung, and have consistently > enjoyed their > work pretty much up to this point. I have noted obviously their > fascination > with infusing hip-hop/rap elements in their music with such > tracks like their > remix on the East Flatbush project and Add'l Prod., both of which I think > succeeded only moderately well. The fusion both times I felt to > be tenuous > at best. It always seems forced, or strained. Like an element > that doesn't > belong. (Of course, there are loads of other IDM artists who incorporate > hip-hop elements in their music as well, Autechre being no exception, and > each time, from what I can hear, to questionable results.) > The problem is I think they are just two very different > genres of music > listened to for very different reasons. A good rap track can have steady > beat (usually a typical 4/4 or otherwise), a funky baseline, hopefully an > original sample, and an MC whose rhymes flow in tandem with the beat and > rhythmn. (When it's done well, that is.) And that's fine. > IDM can have a similiar mindset, but is ever moving forward > as a genre, > pushing the limits of sound and structure into bounds well beyond > what any > average listener would even call music. And that's fine, too. > Great even! > It is why I've always liked it and listened to it. > Rap, however (primarily in it's current state of stagnancy) isn't > concerned with any of these things (as neither is most anything > mainstream), > probably because simply it doesn't need to be. It will all make > it onto MTV > just the same. And it just never seems to work when these two > conceptually > opposed musical cousins are brought together. > Having an MC rapping over Funkstorung's beautiful squeeches and > squelches, disjointed rhythms and distorted melodies just doesn't > work for > me. Sorry. > And while the singing vocals weren't as jarring, I found > myself groaning > every time an MC chimed in over the glitchy squelchy rhythmic mayhem of > Funkstorung, which is solely what I was looking forward to when I > bought the > cd. I found all the MC'ing to be an unwelcome addition. I think > it grounds > the album's otherwise impressive sonics down in a way which I felt worked > against it, rather than with it. > You've probably surmised by now that I'm not the biggest fan of Rap. > Well, it's really only modern day rap in particular. The reason being is > that I think it has descended into nothing more than yet another > commercial > medium absorbed whole by the mainstream, and, in a striking bit > of irony, has > become the very thing that's initial inception was meant to defy > against. > Gone is the classic originality of the old school, where a clever > sample, a > catchy beat and a good rhyme got you everywhere, and not just > what hit single > from a decade ago you can get the rights to, add a new beat, rap > over it, and > make millions of dollars from. > IDM is one of the few bastions of hope I have left in a largely > uncreative, cruel mainstream MTV world. It could be that my > alarm in hearing > more and more rap/hip-hop elements creeping into my IDM is the > sign of the > Mainstream finally making it to the shores of IDM it getting it's money > grubbing hands on my music (shudder to think), and it in turn suffering a > similiar commericial fate and losing it's potency, much like rap > did. (The > day I hear Ae or Funkstorung in a Mountain Dew commercial, I'll > KNOW it's the > end and just commit Seppuku.) > Of course, any artist should always be free to explore > whatever creative > avenues they wish in their music. But really, If I wanted to hear an MC, > then I'd go to down Tower Records and pick up whoever newest commercial > sensation is this week off the Top 10 chart. > Bottom line, I'm just not interested in hearing it over my > squeeches and > squelches. > Again, it could just be my own bias talking, brought on by my > groaning > frustration with all things mainstream. > Or maybe, like I said, MC rapping and glitchy squelchy IDM > just don't mix > well. > I don't know.... > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >
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2000-05-23 15:02Josh DavisonOn Tue, 23 May 2000 Neujinn01@aol.com wrote: > I just got finished listening to the new Fu
From:
Josh Davison
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Cc:
Date:
Tue, 23 May 2000 10:02:21 -0500 (CDT)
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Re: [idm] Rap in IDM...?
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[idm] Rap in IDM...?
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On Tue, 23 May 2000 Neujinn01@aol.com wrote:
quoted 3 lines I just got finished listening to the new Funkstorung as well, and for me> I just got finished listening to the new Funkstorung as well, and for me > it begs the question that I must ask: Does the fusion of IDM an Rap really > work all that well?
i think it can work. it relies, i think, on finding middle ground between the skittery jumble that most IDM is these days and the more solid ostinato of hiphop. if you just bring some MC into the studio after creating Your Very Own Chiastic Slide track #342,224 and expect him/her to drop science over your skitchies, you gots another thing coming :) but it doesn't have to be that way... the key thing to recognize is that in hip hop the "interesting" part of the music isn't the music (well of course it is sometimes), but they words. a good mc keeps the flow shifting around and doesn't accent the same beats over and over again. rhythmically the words can become as interesting as any sounds you'd hear from the bedroom buffoons that usually are the subject of this list .. the important thing for the IDMsters backing up an MC on a hiphophybrid track is not to clutter up the rhymes with all kinds of extraneous syncopation/noise. i think the first track off the new bola 12" works great ... it's still skittery but it has a backbeat that lets the rhythm of the lyrics take the foreground. i think the background might actually be a little dense but the processing on the vocals blends them nicely into the mix. i think idm and hip hop are neighboring bands in the continuous spectrum of electronic music ... there is plenty of middle ground shared between them, and personally i'd like to see more collaboration between artists usually pigeonholed into these slots. sjoh -- String Theory : Digital Music for Humans http://www.enteract.com/~yoshi/index.cgi --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-05-23 13:06jreHello, I disagree with some points you made. I'll try to explain why in a respectful manne
From:
jre
To:
Date:
Tue, 23 May 2000 15:06:10 +0200
Subject:
Re: [idm] Rap in IDM...?
permalink · <009f01bfc4b7$b47fd900$f5ba95c2@oemcomputer>
Hello, I disagree with some points you made. I'll try to explain why in a respectful manner. Sorry about the length of this post. I couldn't answer seriously otherwise.
quoted 3 lines I just got finished listening to the new Funkstorung as well, and for me> I just got finished listening to the new Funkstorung as well, and for me > it begs the question that I must ask: Does the fusion of IDM an Rap really > work all that well?
Here, I agree. I don't think that Appetite... is a good record. According to me it's their weakest yet (and I've heard everything, from Acid Planet to MAS). The "fusion" here is very reminiscent of trip-hop in its heyday. Nothing more than an ill-digested set of influences, with a neo-colonialist edge. As you say, a "fascination". You can't simply "take" a rapper (and a wack mu'fucka like Triple H), have him deliver some rhymes over a disjointed rhythmic soundscape and expect it to be any good. It demands more than that.
quoted 5 lines I generally really like Funkstorung, and have consistently enjoyed their> I generally really like Funkstorung, and have consistently enjoyed their > work pretty much up to this point. I have noted obviously their fascination > with infusing hip-hop/rap elements in their music with such tracks like their > remix on the East Flatbush project and Add'l Prod., both of which I think > succeeded only moderately well.
Their remix of East Flatbush is "pretty" but it lacked a real understanding of hip hop. (Unlike Autechre's, awesome.) The Wu Tang one was far better, payful and irreverent (a rare and much needed attitude when dealing with the Wu). Reunited is a "posse cut", ie an attempt to channel individual lyrical energies into a united but powerful flow. Funkstorung, through production shift, managed to show us the stylistic antagonisms behind the united front. I found it very clever. It was a real point of view. The fusion both times I felt to be tenuous
quoted 2 lines at best. It always seems forced, or strained. Like an element that doesn't> at best. It always seems forced, or strained. Like an element that doesn't > belong.
Well, I thought the very interest of attempting a "fusion" was to organise the confrontation of generic elements that don't belong. Maybe I'm wrong but I suspect a puritan ideology expressing itself here. (Of course, there are loads of other IDM artists who incorporate
quoted 2 lines hip-hop elements in their music as well, Autechre being no exception, and> hip-hop elements in their music as well, Autechre being no exception, and > each time, from what I can hear, to questionable results.)
Loads of IDM artists come from Hip Hop, Autechre being no exception.
quoted 2 lines The problem is I think they are just two very different genres of music> The problem is I think they are just two very different genres of music > listened to for very different reasons.
In fact, I agree. IDM is the realm of pure beings, made from undiluted thought, relentlessly communicating with the essence of beauty and honesty through the complex and gorgeous channel provided by god-like sonic architects. Rap is some kind of muddy pond where dirty fuckers gather to yell at booty-shaking thong-wearing hoes, isn't it ? You're so right (and righteous). The implicit meaning of your point is pathetic. Besides, the reasons why you listen to music can't define it. A genre is more than that. A good rap track can have steady
quoted 3 lines beat (usually a typical 4/4 or otherwise), a funky baseline, hopefully an> beat (usually a typical 4/4 or otherwise), a funky baseline, hopefully an > original sample, and an MC whose rhymes flow in tandem with the beat and > rhythmn. (When it's done well, that is.) And that's fine.
Oh, my... You know nothing about the developments of that music. Moreover, you know nothing about the potential developments of that music. If you despise it, why don't you say it straight up ? No one can blame you for not liking it. But please don't try to justify it pseudo-rationaly. You're oversimplifying things for rhetorical purposes.(I know, that's what I did in my post about Jazz.)
quoted 4 lines Rap, however (primarily in it's current state of stagnancy) isn't> Rap, however (primarily in it's current state of stagnancy) isn't > concerned with any of these things (as neither is most anything mainstream), > probably because simply it doesn't need to be. It will all make it onto MTV > just the same.
You're talking about "Rap" as a genre or what ? Do you think you can assimilate the genre and some of its historical avatars ? If your only access to Hip Hop is MTV, it's fine by me. But don't talk about it as a whole, then. It just looks silly. And it just never seems to work when these two conceptually
quoted 1 line opposed musical cousins are brought together.> opposed musical cousins are brought together.
"Conceptually opposed" ? Because one is on MTV and the other in your bedroom only ? You see a concept here ? You can't success at showing the opposition from musical or conceptual points of view because you're not dealing with any of them. You're dealing with values, self-image and self-importance.
quoted 3 lines Having an MC rapping over Funkstorung's beautiful squeeches and> Having an MC rapping over Funkstorung's beautiful squeeches and > squelches, disjointed rhythms and distorted melodies just doesn't work for > me. Sorry.
Attack Funkstorung, not Hip Hop. It doesn't work because they found it sufficient to just produce a background. They did nothing to the voice itself. Its integration, properly designed, could have been interesting. Here, it's really "rap in IDM". It could have been rap with IDM.
quoted 4 lines And while the singing vocals weren't as jarring, I found myself groaning> And while the singing vocals weren't as jarring, I found myself groaning > every time an MC chimed in over the glitchy squelchy rhythmic mayhem of > Funkstorung, which is solely what I was looking forward to when I bought the > cd. I found all the MC'ing to be an unwelcome addition.
I've seen them live and they played mostly tracks from Appetite... The MC was there, looking just like an unwelcome addition. As wack as one can be. I think it grounds
quoted 2 lines the album's otherwise impressive sonics down in a way which I felt worked> the album's otherwise impressive sonics down in a way which I felt worked > against it, rather than with it.
If you remove the voices, it's not that compelling.
quoted 2 lines You've probably surmised by now that I'm not the biggest fan of Rap.> You've probably surmised by now that I'm not the biggest fan of Rap. > Well, it's really only modern day rap in particular.
Appetite for confusion. (See supra.) The reason being is
quoted 3 lines that I think it has descended into nothing more than yet another commercial> that I think it has descended into nothing more than yet another commercial > medium absorbed whole by the mainstream, and, in a striking bit of irony, has > become the very thing that's initial inception was meant to defy against.
Oh, boy, how striking. Yesterday, I was taking a shower, and I was suddenly struck by this idea : when, oh when, will somebody come and tell the truth, the conceptual truth, about what people call "Rap" ? Thank you, savior.
quoted 4 lines Gone is the classic originality of the old school, where a clever sample, a> Gone is the classic originality of the old school, where a clever sample, a > catchy beat and a good rhyme got you everywhere, and not just what hit single > from a decade ago you can get the rights to, add a new beat, rap over it, and > make millions of dollars from.
Block parties, fly girls, zulu posturing and Flash spinning. Spontaneity. Don't give me that childish chitchat about the old school, old timer. It's sad, OK, but 1- it's not new, 2- it's not true. 2 : do you want a non-exhaustive list of interesting RECENT Rap music ? Just ask for it and I'll post it. I want you to ask for it to be sure of your goodwill. Right now I'm not so sure. IDM is generally something you have to look for, it's not immediately available. You must have developed a way of searching - and finding. Try for once to apply it to Hip Hop.
quoted 8 lines IDM is one of the few bastions of hope I have left in a largely> IDM is one of the few bastions of hope I have left in a largely > uncreative, cruel mainstream MTV world. It could be that my alarm in hearing > more and more rap/hip-hop elements creeping into my IDM is the sign of the > Mainstream finally making it to the shores of IDM it getting it's money > grubbing hands on my music (shudder to think), and it in turn suffering a > similiar commericial fate and losing it's potency, much like rap did. (The > day I hear Ae or Funkstorung in a Mountain Dew commercial, I'll KNOW it's the > end and just commit Seppuku.)
Come on baby, calm down, stop weeping and listen to you for a second. "The shores of IDM" ? You really believe it's outside this world, don't you ? Funkstorung have just remixed JEAN-MICHEL JARRE, for god's sake !
quoted 2 lines Of course, any artist should always be free to explore whatever creative> Of course, any artist should always be free to explore whatever creative > avenues they wish in their music. But really, If I wanted to hear an MC,
Hip Hop is not about "hearing an MC".
quoted 2 lines then I'd go to down Tower Records and pick up whoever newest commercial> then I'd go to down Tower Records and pick up whoever newest commercial > sensation is this week off the Top 10 chart.
Yeah, and when you want to hear electronic music, ie some machines coughing, you go down to the Virgin and pick up some Euro-dance ? Jr
2000-05-23 13:46Greg Malcolmi don't know if i agree with everthing the writer says, but i do agree that it's an uncomf
From:
Greg Malcolm
To:
,
Date:
Tue, 23 May 2000 09:46:43 EDT
Subject:
Re: [idm] Rap in IDM...?
permalink · <20000523134643.20804.qmail@hotmail.com>
i don't know if i agree with everthing the writer says, but i do agree that it's an uncomfortable synthesis at best...years ago before the whole "intelligent" drum and bass thing creatively dried up, people started to rap over the stuccatto beats...logical progression II...(i know this wasn't the first DNB album with a rapped element) with the same results, although drum and bass lends itself very much more to the talk-over Mcing, i found myself then as now just listening harder to the music and wishing the MC wasn't there...in fact i hardly ever listened to CD 2 of the album, the one with MC conrad... just a thought. greg ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Greg Malcolm Twine/Twinesound Audio Productions ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? http://www.inneractions.com/twine http://www.adastra-records.com http://www.zero1media.com http://www.mp3.com/twine http://pulserecords.com/twine 330.677.8332 gemalcolm@hotmail.com http://stations.mp3s.com/stations/56/3rdwave.html ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
quoted 94 lines From: Neujinn01@aol.com>From: Neujinn01@aol.com >To: idm@hyperreal.org >Subject: [idm] Rap in IDM...? >Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 06:05:37 EDT > > I just got finished listening to the new Funkstorung as well, and for >me >it begs the question that I must ask: Does the fusion of IDM an Rap really >work all that well? > I generally really like Funkstorung, and have consistently enjoyed >their >work pretty much up to this point. I have noted obviously their >fascination >with infusing hip-hop/rap elements in their music with such tracks like >their >remix on the East Flatbush project and Add'l Prod., both of which I think >succeeded only moderately well. The fusion both times I felt to be tenuous >at best. It always seems forced, or strained. Like an element that >doesn't >belong. (Of course, there are loads of other IDM artists who incorporate >hip-hop elements in their music as well, Autechre being no exception, and >each time, from what I can hear, to questionable results.) > The problem is I think they are just two very different genres of >music >listened to for very different reasons. A good rap track can have steady >beat (usually a typical 4/4 or otherwise), a funky baseline, hopefully an >original sample, and an MC whose rhymes flow in tandem with the beat and >rhythmn. (When it's done well, that is.) And that's fine. > IDM can have a similiar mindset, but is ever moving forward as a >genre, >pushing the limits of sound and structure into bounds well beyond what any >average listener would even call music. And that's fine, too. Great even! >It is why I've always liked it and listened to it. > Rap, however (primarily in it's current state of stagnancy) isn't >concerned with any of these things (as neither is most anything >mainstream), >probably because simply it doesn't need to be. It will all make it onto >MTV >just the same. And it just never seems to work when these two conceptually >opposed musical cousins are brought together. > Having an MC rapping over Funkstorung's beautiful squeeches and >squelches, disjointed rhythms and distorted melodies just doesn't work for >me. Sorry. > And while the singing vocals weren't as jarring, I found myself >groaning >every time an MC chimed in over the glitchy squelchy rhythmic mayhem of >Funkstorung, which is solely what I was looking forward to when I bought >the >cd. I found all the MC'ing to be an unwelcome addition. I think it >grounds >the album's otherwise impressive sonics down in a way which I felt worked >against it, rather than with it. > You've probably surmised by now that I'm not the biggest fan of Rap. >Well, it's really only modern day rap in particular. The reason being is >that I think it has descended into nothing more than yet another commercial >medium absorbed whole by the mainstream, and, in a striking bit of irony, >has >become the very thing that's initial inception was meant to defy against. >Gone is the classic originality of the old school, where a clever sample, a >catchy beat and a good rhyme got you everywhere, and not just what hit >single >from a decade ago you can get the rights to, add a new beat, rap over it, >and >make millions of dollars from. > IDM is one of the few bastions of hope I have left in a largely >uncreative, cruel mainstream MTV world. It could be that my alarm in >hearing >more and more rap/hip-hop elements creeping into my IDM is the sign of the >Mainstream finally making it to the shores of IDM it getting it's money >grubbing hands on my music (shudder to think), and it in turn suffering a >similiar commericial fate and losing it's potency, much like rap did. (The >day I hear Ae or Funkstorung in a Mountain Dew commercial, I'll KNOW it's >the >end and just commit Seppuku.) > Of course, any artist should always be free to explore whatever >creative >avenues they wish in their music. But really, If I wanted to hear an MC, >then I'd go to down Tower Records and pick up whoever newest commercial >sensation is this week off the Top 10 chart. > Bottom line, I'm just not interested in hearing it over my squeeches >and >squelches. > Again, it could just be my own bias talking, brought on by my groaning >frustration with all things mainstream. > Or maybe, like I said, MC rapping and glitchy squelchy IDM just don't >mix >well. > I don't know.... > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >
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2000-05-23 15:06Josh Davisonyeah i thought the track with MC Conrad sucked royally, but as a counter to this i would l
From:
Josh Davison
To:
Greg Malcolm
Cc:
,
Date:
Tue, 23 May 2000 10:06:55 -0500 (CDT)
Subject:
Re: [idm] Rap in IDM...?
Reply to:
Re: [idm] Rap in IDM...?
permalink · <Pine.NEB.3.96.1000523100511.55549F-100000@shell-1.enteract.com>
yeah i thought the track with MC Conrad sucked royally, but as a counter to this i would like to point out Roni Size/Reprazent's New Forms, which had some very well executed drum-n-bass/rap fusions. IMHO ov course josh -- String Theory : Digital Music for Humans http://www.enteract.com/~yoshi/index.cgi On Tue, 23 May 2000, Greg Malcolm wrote:
quoted 14 lines i don't know if i agree with everthing the writer says, but i do agree that> i don't know if i agree with everthing the writer says, but i do agree that > it's an uncomfortable synthesis at best...years ago before the whole > "intelligent" drum and bass thing creatively dried up, people started to > rap over the stuccatto beats...logical progression II...(i know this wasn't > the first DNB album with a rapped element) with the same results, although > drum and bass lends itself very much more to the talk-over Mcing, i found > myself then as now just listening harder to the music and wishing the MC > wasn't there...in fact i hardly ever listened to CD 2 of the album, the one > with MC conrad... > > just a thought. > > greg > ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
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2000-05-27 05:07mattam i the only one that ADORED progression sessions 3 [ltj bukem, conrad, drs] ? some beaut
From:
matt
To:
Greg Malcolm
Cc:
,
Date:
Sat, 27 May 2000 01:07:49 -0400
Subject:
Re: [idm] Rap in IDM...?
Reply to:
Re: [idm] Rap in IDM...?
permalink · <4.3.0.20000527010536.00b537c0@pop.softhome.net>
am i the only one that ADORED progression sessions 3 [ltj bukem, conrad, drs] ? some beautiful mixing, in my opinion with some well thought-out lyrics. -matt At 2000/05/23-09:46 AM-[ Tuesday ], Greg Malcolm wrote:
quoted 13 lines i don't know if i agree with everthing the writer says, but i do agree>i don't know if i agree with everthing the writer says, but i do agree >that it's an uncomfortable synthesis at best...years ago before the whole >"intelligent" drum and bass thing creatively dried up, people started to >rap over the stuccatto beats...logical progression II...(i know this >wasn't the first DNB album with a rapped element) with the same results, >although drum and bass lends itself very much more to the talk-over Mcing, >i found myself then as now just listening harder to the music and wishing >the MC wasn't there...in fact i hardly ever listened to CD 2 of the album, >the one with MC conrad... > >just a thought. > >greg
aol/aim:plexitox mailto:mjastrem@softhome.net http://matt.westphila.net --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-05-23 15:05Jeff Shoemaker>i think idm and hip hop are neighboring bands in the continuous spectrum >of electronic m
From:
Jeff Shoemaker
To:
Date:
Tue, 23 May 2000 10:05:10 -0500
Subject:
Re: [idm] Rap in IDM...?
permalink · <3.0.6.32.20000523100510.0081e8d0@texas.net>
quoted 4 lines i think idm and hip hop are neighboring bands in the continuous spectrum>i think idm and hip hop are neighboring bands in the continuous spectrum >of electronic music ... there is plenty of middle ground shared between >them, and personally i'd like to see more collaboration between artists >usually pigeonholed into these slots.
(kinda) on this tip: is there any word on when/if Ko-Wreck's full-length is coming out? -jeff ------------ 1642 try 621 ------------ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-05-23 15:25Greg Malcolmi agree, the roni size album worked very well, though i saw them live and it didn't transl
From:
Greg Malcolm
To:
,
Cc:
,
Date:
Tue, 23 May 2000 11:25:11 EDT
Subject:
Re: [idm] Rap in IDM...?
permalink · <20000523152511.38508.qmail@hotmail.com>
i agree, the roni size album worked very well, though i saw them live and it didn't translate as well live...i think though MC dynamite is just a btter MC than conrad. greg
quoted 44 lines From: Josh Davison <yoshi@enteract.com>>From: Josh Davison <yoshi@enteract.com> >To: Greg Malcolm <gemalcolm@hotmail.com> >CC: Neujinn01@aol.com, idm@hyperreal.org >Subject: Re: [idm] Rap in IDM...? >Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 10:06:55 -0500 (CDT) > >yeah i thought the track with MC Conrad sucked royally, but as a counter >to this i would like to point out Roni Size/Reprazent's New Forms, which >had some very well executed drum-n-bass/rap fusions. IMHO ov course > >josh >-- >String Theory : Digital Music for Humans >http://www.enteract.com/~yoshi/index.cgi > > >On Tue, 23 May 2000, Greg Malcolm wrote: > > > i don't know if i agree with everthing the writer says, but i do agree >that > > it's an uncomfortable synthesis at best...years ago before the whole > > "intelligent" drum and bass thing creatively dried up, people started >to > > rap over the stuccatto beats...logical progression II...(i know this >wasn't > > the first DNB album with a rapped element) with the same results, >although > > drum and bass lends itself very much more to the talk-over Mcing, i >found > > myself then as now just listening harder to the music and wishing the MC > > wasn't there...in fact i hardly ever listened to CD 2 of the album, the >one > > with MC conrad... > > > > just a thought. > > > > greg > > ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org >For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >
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2000-05-23 16:06Cichli@aol.comrap in IDM is possible. i think its a great idea actually, been exploring the musical aspe
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To:
Date:
Tue, 23 May 2000 12:06:16 EDT
Subject:
Re: [idm] Rap in IDM...?
permalink · <ca.5071d2f.265c0678@aol.com>
rap in IDM is possible. i think its a great idea actually, been exploring the musical aspect of it myself. its not easy, which is prolly why it hasnt been succeded at many times. i think the key is to make the music fit the vocals, where if you had an aggressive rap going on, you dont wanna have "girl/boy song" playing behind it. here's an idea i just thought about: make a simple 4/4 beat, put some decent melody or sample on it or whatever. then let yr rapper do his thing, and get down a few verses. then take the vocal track out of the rest of it and compose music which fits with the vocals, instead of the other way around. in essence its kinda like remixing a track. also, the comment someone made about actually changing the vocals is probably a really good idea. anyways, the definitive rap/IDM song in my opinion is autechre's "ccec" off of ep7. groovy drums, booming bass, and seriously fucked up vocals all with the autechre touch. and you can bob yr head to it. :jason (ecux www.zenaploae.com) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-05-23 16:36jreHi, > Recently, I was introduced by a friend of a friend to the world of French > hip hop.
From:
jre
To:
, Steve Oliver
Date:
Tue, 23 May 2000 18:36:00 +0200
Subject:
Re: [idm] Rap in IDM...?
permalink · <003b01bfc4d4$ff66c7e0$1bba95c2@oemcomputer>
Hi,
quoted 3 lines Recently, I was introduced by a friend of a friend to the world of French> Recently, I was introduced by a friend of a friend to the world of French > hip hop. The vowel sounds are much richer, and the music a lot more > orchestral and 'musical' than the British or US hiphop that I've heard.
Also
quoted 1 line much more lyrically interesting (he translated some for me <g>). Perhaps> much more lyrically interesting (he translated some for me <g>). Perhaps
an
quoted 1 line IDM / French hip hop collaboration project would be interesting.> IDM / French hip hop collaboration project would be interesting.
Can you please tell the names of these French groups/rappers ? Thanks, Jr --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-05-24 15:31Neferiu Records> Can you please tell the names of these French groups/rappers ? > Thanks, Willbe. www.fla
From:
Neferiu Records
To:
Date:
Wed, 24 May 2000 09:31:55 -0600
Subject:
RE: [idm] Rap in IDM...?
Reply to:
Re: [idm] Rap in IDM...?
permalink · <NDBBLHNKILGOIGLFEKEIAEBKCBAA.neferiu@home.com>
quoted 2 lines Can you please tell the names of these French groups/rappers ?> Can you please tell the names of these French groups/rappers ? > Thanks,
Willbe. www.flavasource.com www.neferiu.com -> no rapping, but releasing a track on the neferiu sampler. mantra --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-05-23 17:35Steve Oliver> the key thing to recognize is that in hip hop the "interesting" part > of the music isn'
From:
Steve Oliver
To:
[IDM]
Date:
Tue, 23 May 2000 18:35:27 +0100
Subject:
Re: [idm] Rap in IDM...?
permalink · <BNEKIDAPNHONECMHGKKGIEENCBAA.stevie@ignition.org.uk>
quoted 6 lines the key thing to recognize is that in hip hop the "interesting" part> the key thing to recognize is that in hip hop the "interesting" part > of the music isn't the music (well of course it is sometimes), but > they words. a good mc keeps the flow shifting around and doesn't > accent the same beats over and over again. rhythmically the words > can become as interesting as any sounds you'd hear from the bedroom > buffoons that usually are the subject of this list ..
Recently, I was introduced by a friend of a friend to the world of French hip hop. The vowel sounds are much richer, and the music a lot more orchestral and 'musical' than the British or US hiphop that I've heard. Also much more lyrically interesting (he translated some for me <g>). Perhaps an IDM / French hip hop collaboration project would be interesting.
quoted 4 lines yeah i thought the track with MC Conrad sucked royally, but as a> yeah i thought the track with MC Conrad sucked royally, but as a > counter to this i would like to point out Roni Size/Reprazent's > New Forms, which had some very well executed drum-n-bass/rap > fusions. IMHO ov course
Tho I haven't heard everything that MC Conrad has ever done...I heard a live hour-long set on the radio once before all the Bukem stuff, and he used exactly the same choice phrases as he did on the Bukem thang, and also on an Adam F track the name of which escapes me. Apologies if this is inaccurate...haven't listened to any Conrad material for about 3 years. Stevie. www.gram.org.uk www.ignition.org.uk www.rewind1000.co.uk np: Assassin / PRT - 'Wake Up!' --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org