IDM Mailing Archive

letting people listen to the music of their choice is good manners, listening to music for production values and or motor skills is simply poor taste, steve In a message dated Mon, 15 Nov 1999 1:13:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, cognition@ns.sympatico.ca (Andrew Duke) writes: > kent: i'm with you on this thread. personally, i make a point > of listening to practically everything i have access > to, regardless of style or whether i like it or not. > for example, i don't like country music, but at > work, (i'm a supervisor) if i give one of the employees > a break and she/he is listening to a country station, > for example, i'll leave it playing (even though i could > change the station). ditto for employees who are > listening to a rock station, an oldies station, a pop > station, etc. i've got a radio on in the kitchen 24/7 > (tuned to the college station) and i'll hear all kinds > of music from classical to indie rock to hip hop > to r n b to Indian music to Greek music to etc etc. > I won't change the channel if something comes on > i'm not into, i'll just leave it for the sake of variety. > i think it's important to hear music you're not into > occasionally cos it makes you appreciate what you *are* into. > what am i listening to right now? well, it happens > to be a live PA from unit for the syndicated show, > but if i was in the kitchen it could very well be > someone playing a poppy bjork song on the college > station (something that i wouldn't have listened > to otherwise) or if my girlfriend was home, she could > easily be playing a madonna cd or something of that > nature. i think we need to keep our ears > open, and it's good to see you do. i'll make a point > of listening to the weekly pop music top 30 on the > radio if i work a saturday shift (when it's airing) > just to keep up on the latest pop music. and i'll listen > to syndicated shows (again, at work, i don't listen > to em at home) when they air like MC Mario's > Top 10 dance show (Mixdown) and Chris Sheppard's > Pirate Radio. do i like the music they play? nope, > it's not what i'm into at all, but it's interesting to see > what is being played on canadian syndicated shows. > (checkin' out the competition ;)) and do i listen > to pop music radio at home? nope, at home i listen > to vinyl and DATs, at work i'll listen to CDs or > the radio. i'm so busy listening to incoming music > here that i don't even listen to the radio at home. so i'm > with ya, nothing wrong with checking out the backstreet > boys et al. heck, i'm sure wells appreciates stuff other > than IDM, this thread just sorta took a strange tone > with the Backstreet Boys on the IDM list, is likely all. > i find it fascinating that there's so much six degrees of > separation in pop music. i won't post that thread a' > mine again, though. take care. andrew duke :) > > wells wrote: > > > At 11:45 AM 11/15/99 -0600, Kent williams wrote: > > > > > >Well, I'm sorry for you too, wells. Some day you'll wake up > > >and realize that there's more to life than being an ironic hipster. > > > > > > > There's really nothing ironic or hip about feeling the deepest of pity for > > anyone who can appreciate the Backstreet Boys for any reason whatsoever. > > > > That sort of pity ought to be instinctive. > > > > - wells oliver / s0ewoliv@titan.vcu.edu > > " The ball is round. The game lasts ninety 90 minutes. > > This much is fact. Everything else is just theory." > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > -- > Cognition/Andrew Duke's In The Mix > mailto:cognition@techno.ca > http://techno.ca/cognition > 1096 Queen St #123 Halifax NS Canada B3H 2R9 > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Tue, 16 Nov 1999 Steve81778@aol.com wrote:

quoted 5 lines letting people listen to the music of their choice is good manners,

> > letting people listen to the music of their choice is good manners, > listening to music for production values and or motor skills is simply > poor taste, >

You're entitled to your opinion BUT: No one is making much money doing 'this-listy' music. I bet that among all the "international idm stars" there are maybe a couple that make more money than I do writing my little boring computer programs. Part of the reason for the small audience is that you have to learn to like this stuff -- a casual listener will find the music repetitive, harsh and obtuse. Another part MAY be -- and this is my thesis -- that because the music is largely home made, it fails to have the production values and sonic quality that the vast majority of people have come to expect from their audio entertainment. So when I listen to any music, on the radio or CD player or Vinyl, I'm doing two things -- considering the music for it's intrinsic musical qualities divorced from the medium, AND analysing how it's recorded, edited, and manipulated to make it inviting ear candy. And if you want production values for their own sake, you have to look at the high-volume, commercial stuff. It doesn't mean you have to love the music -- you can hate it, and still analyze what they do to suck in the punters. My point is this -- what happens if you are somehow able to combine the idiosyncratic artistry that you find in IDM with the techniques of big-bucks audio production? You might come up with something of quality that's also accessible to a wider audience. There are people who have done this -- Orbital comes to mind. But a curious thing happens when musicians get a clue about how to appeal to more than a tiny community of likeminded nutters. Said nutters desert their idols for being too successful, and find another scruffy kid with a sampler to lionize. Too bad if the musicians in question have something to say, and want as many people as possible to hear it. They transgress against their core constituency by refusing to sneer along with them at the wider audience they attract. I think that's stupid. It rewards musicians for being amateurish, inept, and obtuse. It punishes people for learning the craft of recording. It punishes people for daring to try and actually make a living with their music. And it perpetuates an elitist subculture that's little more than an elaborate circle jerk. Fuck that. I'm not going to apologize for listening to music just because it happens to be popular. It's popular for whole host of reasons, and looking consciously at those reasons is for me just as interesting as listening the latest click-thud-and-screech classics. And Wells can kiss my ass. Some people never learn good manners. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Here's a reply to the message "(idm) The Arbiters of Good Taste" written on Tue, 16 Nov 1999 10:16:20 -0600 (CST):

quoted 5 lines I think that's stupid. It rewards musicians for being

>I think that's stupid. It rewards musicians for being >amateurish, inept, and obtuse. It punishes people for learning >the craft of recording. It punishes people for daring to try >and actually make a living with their music. And it perpetuates an >elitist subculture that's little more than an elaborate circle jerk.

It's interesting you should mention Orbital, because there does seem to be a pretty wide gulf between their fans and their detractors on this list. Those that hate Orbital with a passion tend to be relatively younger listeners of so-called IDM, whose first contact with the group was probably on MTV (the bizarre rationale being that if an artist appears on MTV, they've somehow "sold out" and thus aren't worthy of further attention). I find this all quite amusing. Over here in the UK, during the late-80s, I found myself being attracted to what was generically known as "dance" music. Around 1987-88, as a 15-16 year-old kid, if you were into "dance" music, you were considered "a bit odd". If you were into pure pop, people left you alone. If you wanted to be "cool", you had to listen to "heavy metal" music such as Def Leppard and Bon Jovi. It seems laughable now, but that was the way it was. At the same time, UK clubs and discos didn't play speed garage, drum & bass or club music, because it didn't exist. These clubs and discos played either classic 70s disco or these new-fangled 12-inch remixes of pop music. House/acid/techno began to emerge in 1986, but no-one took it seriously -- and if you did, you were seen as a weirdo. Now look at how things have changed. The house scene has since evolved into today's current club scene, which everyone and their dog is involved in. Now you're seen as a weirdo if you're *not* into that sort of stuff. Where was I going with this? Ah yes, so back in the late 80s, I started hearing this incredible new music from the likes of Bomb the Bass, S'Express, 808 State, Orbital, Humanoid, Shades of Rhythm and LFO. I'd previously been listening to a bit of Jarre and founds the sort of sonic experimentation on early New Order, Pet Shop Boys, Art of Noise, Frankie Goes to Hollywood and Propaganda albums to be good fun. Now it all seemed to be going a step further and I liked what I was hearing. Pretty much all these artists are still around today. Some have split up, but the various members are still actively recording decent music. But it makes me laugh when the younger IDM listeners wonder what all the fuss about Orbital and 808 State is about. If it weren't for them, the current IDM scene would be *very* different, perhaps hardly recognisable, so jumping on them for not daring to be as "progressive" as the current bunch of click-hiss-whirr artists is nonsense.

quoted 5 lines Fuck that. I'm not going to apologize for listening to music just

>Fuck that. I'm not going to apologize for listening to music just >because it happens to be popular. It's popular for whole host of >reasons, and looking consciously at those reasons is for me >just as interesting as listening the latest click-thud-and-screech >classics.

I had the good fortune to see Orbital (with Plaid in support) earlier this year. I've also seen Autechre live. Now, as much as I find Autechre's albums, eps and remixes to be incredible, cutting edge stuff, their live performance is about as interesting as watching paint dry -- and the audience usually consists of a dozen bearded students, stroking their chins as they analyse the fractal structures between sips of diet coke. On the other hand, whilst Orbital perhaps aren't as "progressive" or "experimental", their live shows are awesome. Seeing thousands of people jumping around, high on the music as it pulsates throughout the venue in tidal sine waves, projected images and icons flying everywhere, is a sight to see (and hear). -- Mark Stevens http://www.headspin.clara.net/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Wed, 17 Nov 1999, Mark Stevens wrote:

quoted 12 lines I had the good fortune to see Orbital (with Plaid in support) earlier

> I had the good fortune to see Orbital (with Plaid in support) earlier > this year. I've also seen Autechre live. Now, as much as I find > Autechre's albums, eps and remixes to be incredible, cutting edge > stuff, their live performance is about as interesting as watching > paint dry -- and the audience usually consists of a dozen bearded > students, stroking their chins as they analyse the fractal structures > between sips of diet coke. On the other hand, whilst Orbital perhaps > aren't as "progressive" or "experimental", their live shows are > awesome. Seeing thousands of people jumping around, high on the music > as it pulsates throughout the venue in tidal sine waves, projected > images and icons flying everywhere, is a sight to see (and hear). >

I saw them on that same tour, and have seen them probably half a dozen times since 1993. To be honest I was very bored by them this year, though as you say the vast majority of the crowd held a quite different opinion. If it's ~IDM live performances you want, then I suggest you can't do much better than Mouse on Mars, whom I saw on Monday night, supported by Vert and F.X. Randomiz. Usually when you hear "live drummer" you groan at the lame attempt to spruce up the head-nodding spectacle. Their drummer was spot-on though and with a fearsome barnet. One of MoM spent most of the set playing bass or guitar synth (at one stage we were exposed to a "live bass-fixing performance"). Sounds like a dodgy idea but it was amongst the best sets from an "electronic" act I've ever seen. The majority of the songs were from the recent album, but others included Frosch from Vulvaland, Schlektron from Iaora Tahiti and Twift and X-Flies from Autoditacker. They had a refreshing encore policy too. Orbital look devoid of ideas in comparison. I remember people praising their light show/video thing, which consisted of crude sloganeering mostly. Adam --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 6 lines Part of the reason for the small audience is that you have to learn

> Part of the reason for the small audience is that you have to learn > to like this stuff -- a casual listener will find the music repetitive, > harsh and obtuse. Another part MAY be -- and this is my thesis -- > that because the music is largely home made, it fails to have the > production values and sonic quality that the vast majority of people > have come to expect from their audio entertainment.

(warning: most of the following is heavily debatable) i don't think we can really talk of 'production values' or 'sonic quality' when we're talking of something as crappy as the backstreet boys or celine dion. i'd rather compare it to a big mac: purely synthetized taste to appeal millions. does it make it better? a 'clean' production is just the icing on a cake: it's a marketable point. it's audio coating: good if you have something to coat. but for most pop hits, the coating is more or less all there is. it's like eating a cheesecake without the cake part. so hurray for acid & home studios. hurray for tascam 4-track recorders. hurray for tape hiss. you can be just as creative, & just as much a good producer, on many an 'amateur' setup. most production techniques are nothing but borderline illusionistic principles of how to be loved without really ever giving anything to deserve it. as for production values being the reason for mass-appeal... that's only part of the answer, & that's proving my point: that production is a form of marketing. & there's way too much money put into marketing for what the artists are getting back. that all said, i have nothing against producers per se, but i think it's up to the musician to judge whether production is 'needed', & if we leave it to something as vague as 'the public buys it because it's well produced', then maybe we're missing something here. ~ david --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Tue, 16 Nov 1999, david turgeon wrote:

quoted 3 lines (warning: most of the following is heavily debatable)

> > (warning: most of the following is heavily debatable) >

We always debate, don't we david?

quoted 5 lines i don't think we can really talk of 'production values' or 'sonic

> i don't think we can really talk of 'production values' or 'sonic > quality' when we're talking of something as crappy as the backstreet > boys or celine dion. i'd rather compare it to a big mac: purely > synthetized taste to appeal millions. does it make it better? >

It has achieved its goal, which is to sell millions of copies, and presumably it communicates something that millions of people want to hear. I can't believe that someone who goes to the trouble of making music doesn't also want the maximum number of people to hear it and enjoy it. I'm not so eager to dismiss things as crappy. If something is successful, there is a reason it's successful. I want to know why. Things that succeed in the marketplace have attributes lacking in things that don't succeed in the marketplace. What are those attributes? Can music that isn't purpose built to shift units be imbued with those attributes, and still be artistically valid? These are valid questions to ask. You'll only answer these questions by taking the time to understand and analyze music that you may not necessarily like. And the whole issue of 'artistic merit' is slippery and complicated. Today you can go back and look at music that at the time seemed as disposable as BS Boys. In the context of current sensibilities it may have merit that eluded its listeners back in the day. The fact that some music seems worthless right now doesn't mandate that it won't have value some time in the future when tastes change. And to get back to my original point (and I did have one), I listen to stuff like BS Boys to try and deconstruct it, and learn from it. I don't listen to it, run out and buy the record and the poster, and lurk in AOL chat rooms to find out what my favorite BS Boy's favorite dessert is. If you don't want to do this, that's absolutely fine with me.

quoted 2 lines a 'clean' production is just the icing on a cake: it's a marketable

> a 'clean' production is just the icing on a cake: it's a marketable > point. it's audio coating: good if you have something to coat.

Production is a craft. That craft is equally applicable to commersh fluff and deathless masterpieces. In the case of electronic music, production is inextricably fused with composition. The production IS to a large extent the composition.

quoted 3 lines so hurray for acid & home studios.

> > so hurray for acid & home studios. >

Yeppers. And hurray for people who learn how to use them successfully to become insurgents at the gates of commerce.

quoted 2 lines you can be just as creative, & just as much a good producer, on many

> you can be just as creative, & just as much a good producer, on many > an 'amateur' setup.

And you can be amateurish with thousands of dollars worth of gear.

quoted 4 lines most production techniques are nothing but borderline illusionistic

> most production techniques are nothing but borderline illusionistic > principles of how to be loved without really ever giving anything > to deserve it. >

It's all artifice, mate. It's organizing sound waves to manipulate listeners. I agree that music whose only goal is to shift units is annoying and to be avoided. But the picture is rarely that simple. Most people who set out just to strip mine the marketplace for cash fail. What succeeds is a combination of marketing skills, a product with which people form an emotional bond, and the dumb luck to be in the right place at the right time.

quoted 6 lines that all said, i have nothing against producers per se, but i think it's

> > that all said, i have nothing against producers per se, but i think it's > up to the musician to judge whether production is 'needed', & if we > leave it to something as vague as 'the public buys it because it's well > produced', then maybe we're missing something here. >

Straight up, people won't buy stuff that sounds crappy. If you're a musician and you don't figure out how to do high quality production, you're going to fail. And there's no better way to learn how to do production than to analyze successful productions. It doesn't mean your music will become homogenous and radio friendly. It just means that if you break a rule (e.g. distorting drums, an IDM favorite) you're doing it intentionally as part of the package you create for listeners. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

blah blah blah --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Here's a reply to the message "Re: (idm) The Arbiters of Good Taste" written on Wed, 17 Nov 1999 11:01:44 -0000:

quoted 1 line blah blah blah

>blah blah blah

az u got the laterst ortikk3r ablum? its gr8, m8!!! -- Mark Stevens http://www.headspin.clara.net/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 2 lines az u got the laterst ortikk3r ablum? its gr8, m8!!!

> >az u got the laterst ortikk3r ablum? its gr8, m8!!!

hehe , that reminds me of the different ways Ive heard Autechre pronounced by various record shop staffers, mostly in Texas: 1. Ottiker 2. Eutekker 3. Aay-Eee 4. Aay-tekker 5. Autickra so I just say, forget, gimme all yer Funk-Strong. ernie Ernesto Ikerd, (817) 763-4795 Company Graphics, Dept 17, MZ-1156 Lockheed Martin Tactical Aircraft Systems Fort Worth, Texas --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

--- Mark Stevens <mark@headspin.clara.net> wrote:

quoted 3 lines Here's a reply to the message "(idm) The Arbiters of Good Taste"

> Here's a reply to the message "(idm) The Arbiters of Good Taste" > written on Tue, 16 Nov 1999 10:16:20 -0600 (CST): >

I agree with most of what you say apart from this bit

quoted 8 lines At the same time, UK clubs and discos didn't play speed garage, drum

> > At the same time, UK clubs and discos didn't play speed garage, drum > & > bass or club music, because it didn't exist. These clubs and discos > played either classic 70s disco or these new-fangled 12-inch remixes > of pop music. House/acid/techno began to emerge in 1986, but no-one > took it seriously -- and if you did, you were seen as a weirdo. >

There seems to be a commonly held notion that before 1988 there was no club scene of any relevance in the UK. This is just not true. There were still clubs or club nights that were prepared to take risks, such as: Paradise Garage - from 1975-1979 at what is now Heaven - played rougher US Disco/Funk from what I am led to beleive; The Dug-Out in Bristol 1979-1987 - where the Wild Bunch honed their chops (whatever it is that a chop is) - played reggae, punk, funk, Hip-Hop, New York Disco etc. The Dirt Box - 1981-84 wherever an empty warehouse could be found in London - played similar to Dug Out Soul II Soul/Family Funktion - 1984-1988 - Rare Groove/Reggae/whatever plus loads of others that I don't have space to mention. Acid House did not emerge into a vacuum and people who went to those clubs were thought of as no weirder than the people that write to this list (o.k. so that's not a good comparison;-) ===== ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

I second every single word. I would never slag off Oribital and I dont care how they sound today. Memories of watching the sun come up with the "Belfast" in the background ... ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Stevens <mark@headspin.clara.net> To: <idm@hyperreal.org> Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 3:48 PM Subject: Re: (idm) The Arbiters of Good Taste

quoted 82 lines Here's a reply to the message "(idm) The Arbiters of Good Taste"

> Here's a reply to the message "(idm) The Arbiters of Good Taste" > written on Tue, 16 Nov 1999 10:16:20 -0600 (CST): > > >I think that's stupid. It rewards musicians for being > >amateurish, inept, and obtuse. It punishes people for learning > >the craft of recording. It punishes people for daring to try > >and actually make a living with their music. And it perpetuates an > >elitist subculture that's little more than an elaborate circle jerk. > > It's interesting you should mention Orbital, because there does seem > to be a pretty wide gulf between their fans and their detractors on > this list. Those that hate Orbital with a passion tend to be > relatively younger listeners of so-called IDM, whose first contact > with the group was probably on MTV (the bizarre rationale being that > if an artist appears on MTV, they've somehow "sold out" and thus > aren't worthy of further attention). > > I find this all quite amusing. Over here in the UK, during the > late-80s, I found myself being attracted to what was generically known > as "dance" music. Around 1987-88, as a 15-16 year-old kid, if you were > into "dance" music, you were considered "a bit odd". If you were into > pure pop, people left you alone. If you wanted to be "cool", you had > to listen to "heavy metal" music such as Def Leppard and Bon Jovi. It > seems laughable now, but that was the way it was. > > At the same time, UK clubs and discos didn't play speed garage, drum & > bass or club music, because it didn't exist. These clubs and discos > played either classic 70s disco or these new-fangled 12-inch remixes > of pop music. House/acid/techno began to emerge in 1986, but no-one > took it seriously -- and if you did, you were seen as a weirdo. > > Now look at how things have changed. The house scene has since evolved > into today's current club scene, which everyone and their dog is > involved in. Now you're seen as a weirdo if you're *not* into that > sort of stuff. > > Where was I going with this? Ah yes, so back in the late 80s, I > started hearing this incredible new music from the likes of Bomb the > Bass, S'Express, 808 State, Orbital, Humanoid, Shades of Rhythm and > LFO. I'd previously been listening to a bit of Jarre and founds the > sort of sonic experimentation on early New Order, Pet Shop Boys, Art > of Noise, Frankie Goes to Hollywood and Propaganda albums to be good > fun. Now it all seemed to be going a step further and I liked what I > was hearing. > > Pretty much all these artists are still around today. Some have split > up, but the various members are still actively recording decent music. > But it makes me laugh when the younger IDM listeners wonder what all > the fuss about Orbital and 808 State is about. If it weren't for them, > the current IDM scene would be *very* different, perhaps hardly > recognisable, so jumping on them for not daring to be as "progressive" > as the current bunch of click-hiss-whirr artists is nonsense. > > >Fuck that. I'm not going to apologize for listening to music just > >because it happens to be popular. It's popular for whole host of > >reasons, and looking consciously at those reasons is for me > >just as interesting as listening the latest click-thud-and-screech > >classics. > > I had the good fortune to see Orbital (with Plaid in support) earlier > this year. I've also seen Autechre live. Now, as much as I find > Autechre's albums, eps and remixes to be incredible, cutting edge > stuff, their live performance is about as interesting as watching > paint dry -- and the audience usually consists of a dozen bearded > students, stroking their chins as they analyse the fractal structures > between sips of diet coke. On the other hand, whilst Orbital perhaps > aren't as "progressive" or "experimental", their live shows are > awesome. Seeing thousands of people jumping around, high on the music > as it pulsates throughout the venue in tidal sine waves, projected > images and icons flying everywhere, is a sight to see (and hear). > > > -- > Mark Stevens > > http://www.headspin.clara.net/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Well said Mark, well said indeed.

quoted 1 line From: Mark Stevens <mark@headspin.clara.net>

>From: Mark Stevens <mark@headspin.clara.net>

quoted 62 lines Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 15:48:34 +0000

>Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 15:48:34 +0000 > > >It's interesting you should mention Orbital, because there does seem >to be a pretty wide gulf between their fans and their detractors on >this list. Those that hate Orbital with a passion tend to be >relatively younger listeners of so-called IDM, whose first contact >with the group was probably on MTV (the bizarre rationale being that >if an artist appears on MTV, they've somehow "sold out" and thus >aren't worthy of further attention). > >I find this all quite amusing. Over here in the UK, during the >late-80s, I found myself being attracted to what was generically known >as "dance" music. Around 1987-88, as a 15-16 year-old kid, if you were >into "dance" music, you were considered "a bit odd". If you were into >pure pop, people left you alone. If you wanted to be "cool", you had >to listen to "heavy metal" music such as Def Leppard and Bon Jovi. It >seems laughable now, but that was the way it was. > >At the same time, UK clubs and discos didn't play speed garage, drum & >bass or club music, because it didn't exist. These clubs and discos >played either classic 70s disco or these new-fangled 12-inch remixes >of pop music. House/acid/techno began to emerge in 1986, but no-one >took it seriously -- and if you did, you were seen as a weirdo. > >Now look at how things have changed. The house scene has since evolved >into today's current club scene, which everyone and their dog is >involved in. Now you're seen as a weirdo if you're *not* into that >sort of stuff. > >Where was I going with this? Ah yes, so back in the late 80s, I >started hearing this incredible new music from the likes of Bomb the >Bass, S'Express, 808 State, Orbital, Humanoid, Shades of Rhythm and >LFO. I'd previously been listening to a bit of Jarre and founds the >sort of sonic experimentation on early New Order, Pet Shop Boys, Art >of Noise, Frankie Goes to Hollywood and Propaganda albums to be good >fun. Now it all seemed to be going a step further and I liked what I >was hearing. > >Pretty much all these artists are still around today. Some have split >up, but the various members are still actively recording decent music. >But it makes me laugh when the younger IDM listeners wonder what all >the fuss about Orbital and 808 State is about. If it weren't for them, >the current IDM scene would be *very* different, perhaps hardly >recognisable, so jumping on them for not daring to be as "progressive" >as the current bunch of click-hiss-whirr artists is nonsense. > >I had the good fortune to see Orbital (with Plaid in support) earlier >this year. I've also seen Autechre live. Now, as much as I find >Autechre's albums, eps and remixes to be incredible, cutting edge >stuff, their live performance is about as interesting as watching >paint dry -- and the audience usually consists of a dozen bearded >students, stroking their chins as they analyse the fractal structures >between sips of diet coke. On the other hand, whilst Orbital perhaps >aren't as "progressive" or "experimental", their live shows are >awesome. Seeing thousands of people jumping around, high on the music >as it pulsates throughout the venue in tidal sine waves, projected >images and icons flying everywhere, is a sight to see (and hear). > > >-- >Mark Stevens

.MatthewFord. [U.S. Operations / Writer] LOOPZ:The Orbital Zine [ http://www.loopz.co.uk ] Intelligent Electronic Music Paper Zine [Creator / Content Producer] GENREZERO.com [ http://www.genrezero.com ] Online Electronic Music Netcast / Community...Back Online Soon ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org