IDM Mailing Archive

Wasn't My Bloody Valentine that shite Birthday Party rip off? ;) CTD

quoted 3 lines and, if you listen to mbv, thats what a guitar sounds like when its

>and, if you listen to mbv, thats what a guitar sounds like when its >swirling. >

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Someone has still to explain to me what links this band with anything remotely IDM. I am asking a serious question here. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Wed, 10 Nov 1999, Dominick Winters wrote:

quoted 3 lines Someone has still to explain to me what links this band with anything

> Someone has still to explain to me what links this band with anything > remotely IDM. > I am asking a serious question here.

What _links_ them with IDM? Well, directly, not much (bar a few remixes Kevin Shields has done over the years) Philosophically, I'd argue that the abstract and all-encompassing approach to sound that MBV took between say _Glider_ and _Loveless_ has a lot in common with the work of IDM producers. Shields & Co. approached sound design via guitars, outboard effects, tape manipulation, multitracking, etc., often achieving similar results to what producers now get from samplers, software, and, in some cases, mistreated guitar effects boxes. :) Is it IDM? Of course not. Is it endlessly fascinating sound manipulation that achieves the sort of depth and interesting textures people at least pay lip service to around here? I think so, and quite a few of your favorite IDM, techno, and ambient producers do, too. -d.w. np: Sam Prekop --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 3 lines Someone has still to explain to me what links this band with anything

> Someone has still to explain to me what links this band with anything > remotely IDM. > I am asking a serious question here.

I don't think anyone has claimed they are 'IDM' or have anything to do with it apart from a lot of people on this list seem to like them. I just can't believe that some people listen exclusively to IDM (if their desktop piles are representative of their entire collections). Some people should try listening to other music. They might just like it. Going through a load of MBV interviews a few weeks back I found this quote from Kevin Shields: - - - - - - - - - - - - You've mentioned working with computers. Based on what you've been saying right now, it sounds halfway between frustration at getting used to working with new equipment and, on the other hand, something liberating, trying something new from scratch. Is that the case? I don't know if I follow your question, but basically I don't like shying away from technology on principle, but after all this time I've come to a certain conclusion on technology and where it's not worth dealing with. Some of it is not worth dealing with because it seems to pull people in a certain area, and that area is slightly cold. Technology is capable of producing a human, warm music. Whatever you can imagine, technology can do it. But the methods in which you have to use the stuff, all the computers and stuff, it's so unmusical it's unreal. I see it as the same problem as why a lot of classical music is ultimately cold music: it doesn't touch people. Why is it always that essentially folk music, from jazz to whatever experimental, avant-garde rock music, is ultimately a kind of folk music, it feeds into one area and ultimately influences itself? Whereas avant-garde classical music, or straight orchestra-based music, it seems like very few people are able to come along and do something that touches people in a big way. I think it's because of the way they do it. When there's too much intellect involved, I think it's ultimately dead. It can impress people, in a Wagner way, complicated, but it's boring! Kind of like progressive rock! It keeps on going wrong; people get into a progressive rock state of mind and justify what they do by monumental sort of achievements. Ultimately all music, whether the people know it or not, is very culturally influenced and socially influenced. Otherwise music wouldn't sound so different all over the world. KUCI 1996 - - - - - - - - - - - - Ring any bells? --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On 10 Nov 99, Kent williams wrote re: Re: (idm) mbv - my bloody valentine:

quoted 2 lines Life is much richer if you're willing to be

> Life is much richer if you're willing to be > eclectic in your listening habits.

All hail the voice of reason. I think quite a bit of evidence supporting this has come out with the descriptions of peoples' desktop piles - some really unexpected and wond'rous stuff turned up here and there! For the record, "Loveless" always will be a milestone between somewhere and somewhere else. One of those sweepy swoopy surrounding and enveloping records. Quite unlike anything before it. *** IMO *** I * --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Wed, 10 Nov 1999, Kent williams wrote:

quoted 4 lines Some people on the list seem to not like any music but 'this-listy' stuff

> Some people on the list seem to not like any music but 'this-listy' stuff > like Autechre and Boards of Canada. I don't want to tell anyone what to like > or not like, but the fact is that there isn't a genre of music that doesn't > have really great music. Conversely, there's Sturgeon's Law -- 99% of

Gospel! no such thing as good gospel. really. - wells oliver / s0ewoliv@titan.vcu.edu " The ball is round. The game lasts ninety minutes. This much is fact. Everything else is just theory. " --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Wed, 10 Nov 1999, wells wrote:

quoted 13 lines On Wed, 10 Nov 1999, Kent williams wrote:

> On Wed, 10 Nov 1999, Kent williams wrote: > > > Some people on the list seem to not like any music but 'this-listy' stuff > > like Autechre and Boards of Canada. I don't want to tell anyone what to like > > or not like, but the fact is that there isn't a genre of music that doesn't > > have really great music. Conversely, there's Sturgeon's Law -- 99% of > > Gospel! > > no such thing as good gospel. > > really. >

Counterexamples: Gospel Recordings by Aretha Franklin. Early Carter Family records. Recordings by the itinerant black gospel quartets that toured the southern US during the first half of this century. White gospel is, I will say, universally dreadful. It's worth buying a few at thrift stores just so you can fully know how bad music can be and still get people to buy it. There is a 2 record set of Aretha Franklin performing at her father's church in Detroit that is phenomenal, and includes as a bonus a Jesse Jackson Sermon that I've heard sampled on house tracks. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Wed, 10 Nov 1999, Kent williams wrote:

quoted 11 lines Counterexamples: Gospel Recordings by Aretha Franklin. Early Carter Family

> Counterexamples: Gospel Recordings by Aretha Franklin. Early Carter Family > records. Recordings by the itinerant black gospel quartets that toured the > southern US during the first half of this century. White gospel is, I > will say, universally dreadful. It's worth buying a few at thrift stores > just so you can fully know how bad music can be and still get people to buy > it. > > There is a 2 record set of Aretha Franklin performing at her father's > church in Detroit that is phenomenal, and includes as a bonus a Jesse > Jackson Sermon that I've heard sampled on house tracks. >

Well god, let me run right out and buy it. Not. Gospel is awful. All of it. Every last rare basement-recorded out-of-print Aretha Franklin LP. White gospel's bad, black gospel's bad, evey race in between whoever sought to create gospel- well, it's bad too. But I digress. - wells oliver / s0ewoliv@titan.vcu.edu " The ball is round. The game lasts ninety minutes. This much is fact. Everything else is just theory. " --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

On Wed, 10 Nov 1999, wells wrote:

quoted 7 lines Not. Gospel is awful. All of it. Every last rare basement-recorded

> > Not. Gospel is awful. All of it. Every last rare basement-recorded > out-of-print Aretha Franklin LP. White gospel's bad, black gospel's bad, > evey race in between whoever sought to create gospel- well, it's bad too. > > But I digress. >

If you'd said "I really hate gospel. All of it." then I'd say "whatever. to each his own." But you state "Gospel is awful" as though you are an omniscient arbiter of all things good and bad. All I can say is that I doubt you've heard any really good Gospel, and have closed off your mind from ever even accepting it. Nearly all black singers of any quality got their start singing in church; to reject Gospel out of hand is to reject something at the roots of a lot of modern music. If it's religion that gets your knickers in a twist, well you're going to have your knickers twisted a lot of the time, since religion isn't going to go away. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 4 lines From: "Irene McC" <substar@iafrica.com>

>From: "Irene McC" <substar@iafrica.com> >To: idm@hyperreal.org, kent@avalon.net >Subject: Re: (idm) mbv - my bloody valentine- >Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 20:51:25 +0200

quoted 4 lines For the record, "Loveless" always will be a milestone between

>For the record, "Loveless" always will be a milestone between >somewhere and somewhere else. One of those sweepy swoopy >surrounding and enveloping records. Quite unlike anything before >it

--or after...I'm sure you would agree Irene... --the professor is a mad mbv fan...and it's good to know that more idm'ers are as well... --there are things that mbv have done that could very well come under the "ambient" tag...and some dancy things which could also come under "idm"... --a good "mbv idm" track is Instrumental B - a rare track whick was a special insert that was included with some limited copies of isn't anything...and we're talking 1988 here... --for the mp3, check out...http://www.expectdelay.com/mbv/mediaclips.html --it's at the bottom of the page... --also check out "2", which i think is the "ambient noise" thing of beauty... --hope i turn some idm'ers on to mbv... --enjoy...Prof. V Professor Vast Expansion Research-Liquid Lab Scientific Outpost-Vulcan Solar System Resident Analog Architects: Prof. Vast-Expansion Specialist and Spacerock demolitionist Dr. Fluff-Rotation Specialist ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 5 lines From: Kent williams <kent@avalon.net>

>From: Kent williams <kent@avalon.net> >To: Giles Ward <gilesw@globalnet.co.uk> >CC: idm@hyperreal.org >Subject: Re: (idm) mbv - my bloody valentine- >Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 11:34:53 -0600 (CST)

quoted 3 lines Even if MBV uses guitars and real drums, their sonic approach is

>Even if MBV uses guitars and real drums, their sonic approach is >hugely>influential in IDM style music. Hell, Brian Eno is a MBV fan! >

--here's the quote from a guitar mag interview with MBV...this is what the interviewer says just before the interview starts... "Meanwhile, both David Byrne and Brian Eno have declared My Bloody Valentine the most intriguing new pop band on the scene." --and he goes on to say... "Each record boasts iconoclastic playing and production details that violate almost all conventional wisdom about how pop records ought to sound. Barely audible vocals drown in dense washes of pulsating guitar. Weird phase relationships tease your ear while churning, low-register beating processes knot your belly. Thanks to Shields' startling whammy bar manipulation, guitar tracks seem to flutter and wind down without losing the beat. The deep-focus, dream-time music seems to invite farfetched, atmospheric metaphors: a short-wave transmission from a distant galaxy, a faded palimpsest barely visible beneath an old painting." --to me this could very well be a description of an ambient or idm track... --so yes, kent, i completely agree with your statements about mbv and it's connection to ambient/idm... Prof. V Professor Vast Expansion Research-Liquid Lab Scientific Outpost-Vulcan Solar System Resident Analog Architects: Prof. Vast-Expansion Specialist and Spacerock demolitionist Dr. Fluff-Rotation Specialist ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org