IDM Mailing Archive

National tours are not that hard to do. Just get a $2000 van and book shows at indie/punk clubs in big cities and stay on people's floors. Now, if you want to market yourself to raver kids with thousands of 6 colors fold out flyers, that's a different story.

quoted 6 lines Most tours don't make a lot of money - ask the Ninjas. Similarly, how do

>Most tours don't make a lot of money - ask the Ninjas. Similarly, how do >you propose an artist get big enough to be able to do a national or >international tour? They have to have some musical releases out. But how >do they get very far if they don't profit off that? And what if it's >something that wouldn't work well live, or a person who can't DJ? >

bill wright wwright@clemson.edu <http://hubcap.clemson.edu/~wwright>

this might interest some people: Thursday April 15 1999 Banddb NEWS MP3 Gets Warped This week Banddb spoke exclusively to UK independent label Warp Records about their plans for MP3. http://www.banddb.com/

Ugh. I was hoping this guy from warp to be cool. He's really not. He attacks bootleg mp3s viciously. Cripes, it's like tape trading only easier. I've had several people tell me they've become tricky addicts like myself after downloading mp3s from my sight. I used that aphex twin mp3 site extensively to get shit that i wouldn't have otherwise...The two missing SAWII tracks, Pac-Man, Remixes, Odd singles. All stuff that i would have never bought because i usually can't justify spending that much money on small things. I still bought all his US releases. Now, if i see this stuff for sale somewhere, i'm more likely to buy it cos i know how good it is. I never passed on a purchase because i could just d/l the mp3. No one was hurt and i got so much closer to being an RDJ completist. That's my story and i'm sticking to it. A quote from Greg Eden (from warp): "It should be made clear that downloading pirated MP3s is theft. These people wouldn't walk into someone's house and steal a television, or walk into a record shop and steal a few CDs but they don't bat an eyelid when it comes to downloading illegal MP3s, which in the end amounts to the same thing."

quoted 4 lines MP3 Gets Warped

>MP3 Gets Warped >This week Banddb spoke exclusively to UK independent label Warp Records >about their plans for MP3. >http://www.banddb.com/

_________________________________ Adam Roesch / roesch@augsburg.edu Augsburg College / Minneapolis / MN / USA http://dogbert.augsburg.edu/~roesch/ The world's most complete Pork Recordings/Fila Brazillia site: http://dogbert.augsburg.edu/~roesch/pork/ "The only disease we need in our blood is love" TRICKY

quoted 2 lines This week Banddb spoke exclusively to UK independent label Warp Records

> This week Banddb spoke exclusively to UK independent label Warp Records > about their plans for MP3.

what plans? i didn't see anything in that article saying what warp are going to do /with/ mp3, just what they (think they're) going to /about/ it. that's to say, trying to make people feel guilty for listening to their music without going to a shop and buying it. which is the only strategy at their disposal that might have a chance of working. the comparison between illegal mp3 files and burglary, well, i dismiss this out of hand. this has been said ever since the first software pirates were in action. and plenty of people use legal purchased software even though they could have free copies from the internet. and the software companies still make a bit of money, you know. data-theft is very different to property theft. the timebomb was set ticking the day that consumer digital audio was invented, simple as that. there's no turning back, they fucked themselves by doing that, and then they try to blame us and prey on our consciences! if the situation worries them now, what will it be in 10 years time, when bandwidth increases another 20-fold, or another 100-fold, or probably more. if you want it, you'll be able to get it. there's no way the record companies can keep it in check, the way things are going now. the only way out of it is to restrict public access to the means of digital distribution (internet, DAT, CDR, MD). that may seem ridiculous, but once the other, bigger branches of the media industry start to see their property made freely available (thanks to increasing bandwidth), and more pressure is put on our governments to act, then this scenario will be much more plausible. all the current formats would have to go - CD, DVD etc because the means of manufacture are already too firmly rooted amongst the public, and then it would take years before all the existing equipment to make (and play) these formats breaks down of old age. and the idea of all media converging towards one source, the computer multi-media entertainment hub? didn't they realise they would be slitting their own throats with this? and while all this goes on, hey presto, we'll have to re-purchase our music collections again! if the digital age gives us nothing else, it has given us freedom of information. not that warp have much to worry about, they'll be long gone before it gets /really/ bad. they should think about selling up - i hear murdoch has a few spare quid lying around since he failed to swallow united.. rant over now.. <waves>

quoted 2 lines the comparison between illegal mp3 files and burglary, well, i dismiss this

>the comparison between illegal mp3 files and burglary, well, i dismiss this >out of hand. this has been said ever since the first software pirates were

indeed, the difference is that with burglary the person doesn't have a tv after it's stolen, where with mp3/"music theft" it's an economic deprivation. john lennon said "music is everybody's, it's only the publishers who think otherwise."

quoted 2 lines if you want it, you'll be able to get it. there's no way the record

>if you want it, you'll be able to get it. there's no way the record >companies can keep it in check, the way things are going now.

the way things are going now is that the record industry is trying to come up with a way to proprietize digital/streaming media, so that the only way to listen to bitwise music will be to use a program that controls whether you are able to save a copy on your hard drive or pay for each listen. this will most likely be presented as an improvement over mp3 (expect to hear the scare-word "lossy" a lot) where many people will accept the trade-off of industry-sourced sound files over making/downloading/filing their own. this is inevitable as the industry strives to make streaming media a revenue source (same results with fewer people than a radio station means higher margins). of course, while people can keep using mp3 to whatever ends they put it, expect there to be extreme pressure/advertising/technical articles to "upgrade." eric onnow: jim o'rourke : eureka (touch and go)

quoted 2 lines the way things are going now is that the record industry is

> the way things are going now is that the record industry is > trying to come up with a way to proprietize digital/streaming media, so

that

quoted 1 line the only way to listen to bitwise music will be to use a program that

> the only way to listen to bitwise music will be to use a program that

controls whether

quoted 1 line you are able to save a copy on your hard drive or pay for each listen.

> you are able to save a copy on your hard drive or pay for each listen.

this has already failed. there are many soundcards (such as the soundblaster live) that allow you to digitally re-route the output of your wave player back into the card (without loss of quality) so you can record /anything/ as a wave file. plus programs like virtual audio cable, etc etc.. pay per listen will never happen. <waves>

Of Course, often in America, the albums that really make the money are the ones that pre-teens would buy anyway. In my opinion, MP3 really won't catch on in the mainstream until it becomes user freindly. People who are around computers realize how to copy/use the encoded format, but your average Joe would rather just play a disc. The record companies shouldn't worry. C E S _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

At 01:46 PM 4/15/99 -0700, you wrote:

quoted 7 lines Of Course, often in America, the albums that really make the money are

> >Of Course, often in America, the albums that really make the money are >the ones that pre-teens would buy anyway. In my opinion, MP3 really >won't catch on in the mainstream until it becomes user freindly. >People who are around computers realize how to copy/use the encoded >format, but your average Joe would rather just play a disc. >

Actually, the mp3 format is about to become a lot more user friendly. In the next few months the ability to play mp3s and streaming mp3s is being incorporated into the Real Media Player. Currently there is a 3rd party Real Media plugin that allows the player to do this but according to a recent article in Internet World magazine, that feature will be a standard Real Player feature later this year. So instead of entering long file locations and/or finding mp3 files on your machine, you can just click on a quick link. -->-Lance--- mclance@nacs.net lance@inaudible.com p.o. box 450715 westlake, ohio 44145 united states

quoted 12 lines Actually, the mp3 format is about to become

> Actually, the mp3 format is about to become > a lot more user friendly. In the next few > months the ability to play mp3s and > streaming mp3s is being incorporated into > the Real Media Player. Currently there is > a 3rd party Real Media plugin that allows > the player to do this but according to a recent > article in Internet World magazine, that feature > will be a standard Real Player feature later this > year. So instead of entering long file locations > and/or finding mp3 files on your machine, you > can just click on a quick link.

Windows Media Player sort of currently does this. Very poorly. I can't say I'm surprised by Greg Warp's quotes, given their vehemence in shutting down sites in the past. Really, though, must they be so rabid? I mean, are they making huge amounts of money and they don't want to lose it that badly? This is not to say I'm not bothered by what I call the "MP3 people", who are basically warez kiddies and the like who think the world owes them everything on a silver platter, for free. "Why should I have to pay for anything?" Because someone did work to give you that music. It's a nice thing to be able to live off of what you enjoy, I'd like to think I help a few people do that. Well, Aphex anyway.

On Thu, 15 Apr 1999, Andrew Hime wrote:

quoted 6 lines This is not to say I'm not bothered by what I call the "MP3 people", who

> This is not to say I'm not bothered by what I call the "MP3 people", who > are basically warez kiddies and the like who think the world owes them > everything on a silver platter, for free. "Why should I have to pay for > anything?" Because someone did work to give you that music. It's a nice > thing to be able to live off of what you enjoy, I'd like to think I help a > few people do that. Well, Aphex anyway.

Sorry to continue beating dead horses, but I'd also like to point out (for the millionth time to this list) that I put that stuff as a dodgy facsimile of the real thing (since not everyone is lucky enough to have the real thing) so that people could at least hear some of those songs, which are nothing short of incredible. I have no problem paying for stuff. I spend more money on records than I spend on rent, and I'm not the kind of person who is satisfied with an mp3, I want the REAL THING. Andrew is totally right though. There are people who will download ANY mp3, just because they can. I made those tracks available to this list (and this list only), I didn't spam search engines trying to drive traffic to the site, I didn't have any ad banners on it, and I didn't profit in any way from doing it. (well I did get an email from V/VM which made me feel kind of cool, but I don't think that counts.) Not only that, I didn't deny Booth/Brown or the Warp Records Corporation any income, as they had already stopped making the records I had up, that's the way I see it at least. I have a clear conscience. :) Hi. I'm going to shut up about this now. .Bil. IAMaCOPIER

quoted 2 lines Actually, the mp3 format is about to become

>Actually, the mp3 format is about to become >a lot more user friendly. In the next few

really, mp3 is no more difficult than using an email reader, so if you have trouble with that...ask someone! these days you can't swing a speaker cable without hitting someone who listens to mp3's. mind you, i don't have to worry about my promo supply getting cut off by offended labels. ;) if people want to have an all-in-one pretty program that does everything for them, then they pretty much deserve whatever comes from that. the writing is on the wall. eric onnow: masters of psychedelic ambience : mu (rather interesting)

At 05:17 PM 4/15/99 -0400, Nicholas Clarke wrote:

quoted 1 line But, a way to make profit will be found, not to worry.

>But, a way to make profit will be found, not to worry.

Yes: Performing, DJing, Commercials, Licensing, Merchandise (If only Aphex twin would've sold t-shirts like the Come to Daddy Tee i won! And could you imagine the Opportunity for "windowlicker" tees/posters? And better yet, can you imagine the confusion caused to the parents and friends of students who would wear "windowlicker" tees? I would have jumped at that chance in high school. Whoops: I digress. Look at how well the "windowlicker" calendar sold. I doubt there was ever before a market for "import calendars."). Eventually, free digital music could be a way of advertising for an artist's services (production), songs (like for soundtracks & commercials), live performances, CDs and records (i still like holding physical objects with actual artwork), and most of all, T-Shirts and Posters. And of course, that all works the other way too (merch, performances, etc advertise the actual music), all this does is eliminate the money made on one side of the equation. _________________________________ Adam Roesch / roesch@augsburg.edu Augsburg College / Minneapolis / MN / USA http://dogbert.augsburg.edu/~roesch/ The world's most complete Pork Recordings/Fila Brazillia site: http://dogbert.augsburg.edu/~roesch/pork/ "The only disease we need in our blood is love" TRICKY

quoted 11 lines At 05:17 PM 4/15/99 -0400, Nicholas Clarke wrote:

> At 05:17 PM 4/15/99 -0400, Nicholas Clarke wrote: > >But, a way to make profit will be found, not to worry. > > Yes: Performing, DJing, Commercials, Licensing, Merchandise (If only Aphex > twin would've sold t-shirts like the Come to Daddy Tee i won! And could > you imagine the Opportunity for "windowlicker" tees/posters? And better > yet, can you imagine the confusion caused to the parents and friends of > students who would wear "windowlicker" tees? I would have jumped at that > chance in high school. Whoops: I digress. Look at how well the > "windowlicker" calendar sold. I doubt there was ever before a market for > "import calendars.").

Most tours don't make a lot of money - ask the Ninjas. Similarly, how do you propose an artist get big enough to be able to do a national or international tour? They have to have some musical releases out. But how do they get very far if they don't profit off that? And what if it's something that wouldn't work well live, or a person who can't DJ? Reducing an artist's profit when they're starting out is not a good idea, IMHO. I suppose this contradicts what I just said about MP3s...

quoted 4 lines Eventually, free digital music could be a way of advertising for an

> Eventually, free digital music could be a way of advertising for an > artist's services (production), songs (like for soundtracks & commercials), > live performances, CDs and records (i still like holding physical objects > with actual artwork), and most of all, T-Shirts and Posters.

MP3s can be tools - hell, we have em up on Sonic Therapy (http://www.sonictherapy.com - plug plug) and we're about to announce a fun little thing involving them that should keep people coming back for more. They are good for an artist starting out as a way to get their music heard. But you don't wanna shoot yourself in the foot - an entire album on MP3 probably isn't going to keep you eating. But then, some people are okay with the concept of giving music away, so hey, who am I to argue with them?

quoted 5 lines Actually, the mp3 format is about to become

> Actually, the mp3 format is about to become > a lot more user friendly. In the next few > months the ability to play mp3s and > streaming mp3s is being incorporated into > the Real Media Player.

WinAmp has been able to do this for quite some time, but previously it was only available to those with huge pipes. Their ShoutCast technology has made it much more accessable, and is worth checking out (www.shoutcast.com, www.mp3spy.com). Xaos 80 97 116 114 105 99 107 32 77 99 71 105 110 110