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(idm) Tally Ho!

17 messages · 12 participants · spans 20 days · search this subject
◇ merged from 2 subjects: (idm) tally ho · (idm) tally ho!
1998-09-29 06:10Michael Upton (idm) Tally ho!
1998-10-01 01:38Daniel K. Taylor (idm) tally ho!
├─ 1998-10-01 02:15Michael Upton Re: (idm) tally ho!
├─ 1998-10-01 13:46Sebastian Herrfurth Re: (idm) tally ho!
└─ 1998-10-01 15:11Nate Harrison \[Toshok Laboratories\] Re: (idm) tally ho!
└─ 1998-10-01 15:59Guy Elden, Jr. Re: (idm) tally ho!
1998-10-14 14:53Sean McGonagle (idm) Tally Ho!
└─ 1998-10-14 15:23Nate Harrison \[Toshok Laboratories\] Re: (idm) Tally Ho!
└─ 1998-10-16 23:24Che Re: (idm) Tally Ho!
1998-10-17 18:28Dave Walker Re: (idm) Tally Ho!
├─ 1998-10-17 19:26Che Re: (idm) Tally Ho
│ ├─ 1998-10-17 19:24sfwd productions Re: (idm) Tally Ho
│ └─ 1998-10-18 20:37Michael Upton Re: (idm) Tally Ho
├─ 1998-10-18 16:29Irene McC Re: (idm) Tally Ho!
├─ 1998-10-18 20:57Michael Upton Re: (idm) Tally Ho!
└─ 1998-10-19 15:11Chaircrusher Re: (idm) Tally Ho!
1998-10-19 14:00Brad Shelton Re: (idm) Tally Ho!
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1998-09-29 06:10Michael UptonI've gotta say that I'm _really_ impressed by the latest Wagon Christ effort. I normally f
From:
Michael Upton
To:
Date:
Tue, 29 Sep 1998 18:10:48 +1200 (NZST)
Subject:
(idm) Tally ho!
permalink · <Pine.BSF.4.02A.9809291804370.13209-100000@tao.sans.vuw.ac.nz>
I've gotta say that I'm _really_ impressed by the latest Wagon Christ effort. I normally find him quite good, but not so good I've ever bought a whole album by him. I reckon 'Tally Ho!', howeve,r is consistently real solid. Nice beats and he hasn't compromised the silliness - just made wicked tracks to go with it. I'm guessing he got himself some new gear, simply because the sound is so big and warm compared to his other Wagon Christ efforts. I'd heartily recommend it to anyone who has some interest in the more funky and light-hearted side of things. I'd rate this pretty high on a list of good stuff come out this year, although I suspect others would give it marks off for not being ground-breaking. More balanced description on request. I just wanted to have a brief gush. :) Michael ____________________________________________ "Also, he has automatic evasion devices" http://www.vuw.ac.nz/~michael/jj.html
1998-10-01 01:38Daniel K. Tayloranyone know when the new Wagon Christ album is coming out? _______________________________
From:
Daniel K. Taylor
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Date:
Wed, 30 Sep 1998 18:38:55 PDT
Subject:
(idm) tally ho!
permalink · <19981001013855.7153.qmail@hotmail.com>
anyone know when the new Wagon Christ album is coming out? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
1998-10-01 02:15Michael UptonOn Wed, 30 Sep 1998, Daniel K. Taylor wrote: | anyone know when the new Wagon Christ album
From:
Michael Upton
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Thu, 1 Oct 1998 14:15:34 +1200 (NZST)
Subject:
Re: (idm) tally ho!
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(idm) tally ho!
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On Wed, 30 Sep 1998, Daniel K. Taylor wrote: | anyone know when the new Wagon Christ album is coming out? In came out in New Zealand a week or so ago, so it will have been out for quite some time, in Europe at least. Damn it's cool... Michael np. 'Past the gates' - Sluts'n'Strings & 909 ____________________________________________ "Also, he has automatic evasion devices" http://www.vuw.ac.nz/~michael/jj.html
1998-10-01 13:46Sebastian HerrfurthOn Wed, 30 Sep 1998, Daniel K. Taylor wrote: > anyone know when the new Wagon Christ album
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Sebastian Herrfurth
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IDM Mailinglist
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Thu, 1 Oct 1998 13:46:51 +0200 (MET DST)
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Re: (idm) tally ho!
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(idm) tally ho!
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On Wed, 30 Sep 1998, Daniel K. Taylor wrote:
quoted 1 line anyone know when the new Wagon Christ album is coming out?> anyone know when the new Wagon Christ album is coming out?
It's out in Germany for about two weeks Bye Sebastian -- Sebastian Herrfurth (seher@cs.tu-berlin.de) the Drome/NUF/SMC page - http://user.cs.tu-berlin.de/~seher/BerndFriedmann/ the Neotropic/SFWS page - http://user.cs.tu-berlin.de/~seher/RizMaslen/ the inofficial DJ Krush page - http://user.cs.tu-berlin.de/~seher/DJKrush/ a D&D/Myer/S'Apex page - http://user.cs.tu-berlin.de/~seher/DanielMeier/
1998-10-01 15:11Nate Harrison \[Toshok Laboratories\]Well I got mine at Other Music in NYC a few days ago...once again, another LV masterpiece.
From:
Nate Harrison \[Toshok Laboratories\]
To:
Daniel K. Taylor
Cc:
Date:
Thu, 1 Oct 1998 11:11:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) tally ho!
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(idm) tally ho!
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Well I got mine at Other Music in NYC a few days ago...once again, another LV masterpiece... an another note, I also picked up the new MBM reocord, Actual SOunds and Voices. Oh man, what a let down...Jack is really in a rut I think...I've supported his efforts since '89 when I saw him live for the first time, and after cleaning mu heavily soiled trousers I snatched up the whole MBM collection; it's too bad that (IMHO) the father of big beat sounds more like he is trying to keep up with the current drop of blasse big beat, and not doing anything mindblowing, the way he used too:( later Nate On Wed, 30 Sep 1998, Daniel K. Taylor wrote:
quoted 5 lines anyone know when the new Wagon Christ album is coming out?> anyone know when the new Wagon Christ album is coming out? > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >
1998-10-01 15:59Guy Elden, Jr.> an another note, I also picked up the new MBM reocord, Actual SOunds and > Voices. Oh ma
From:
Guy Elden, Jr.
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Date:
Thu, 1 Oct 1998 11:59:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) tally ho!
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Re: (idm) tally ho!
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quoted 2 lines an another note, I also picked up the new MBM reocord, Actual SOunds and> an another note, I also picked up the new MBM reocord, Actual SOunds and > Voices. Oh man, what a let down...Jack is really in a rut I think...I've
Ack... I was afraid of this. The new EP didn't blow me away last month. Neither did his remix of NIN Perfect Drug. I guess going back to a single CD album wasn't such a great idea. Come on Jack, let's go back to the hybrid approach! :) -- jr
1998-10-14 14:53Sean McGonagleHi all, Wondering what people are thinking about the new Wagon Christ full-length. I just
From:
Sean McGonagle
To:
'idm@hyperreal.org'
Date:
Wed, 14 Oct 1998 10:53:29 -0400
Subject:
(idm) Tally Ho!
permalink · <9FE0A6712718D211BCE200A0C9D8E47F609A8A@USB_EXCHANGE>
Hi all, Wondering what people are thinking about the new Wagon Christ full-length. I just picked up a copy yesterday -- which i think was the domestic release date anyway. I know that there has been some talk about it, but just curious what others think. In light of Throbbing Pouch, it seems as though he collected a lot of fun wacky material and lots of fun new toys and gadgets just before Throbbing Pouch was recorded . . . But now this new release seems like he's learned more about his new toys ... same style, same general feel, but fuller and more mature (dare i say??). Curious if others think the same, sean.
1998-10-14 15:23Nate Harrison \[Toshok Laboratories\]Tally Ho! is one killer record. With every Luke Vibert release I am reminded how much fun
From:
Nate Harrison \[Toshok Laboratories\]
To:
Sean McGonagle
Cc:
'idm@hyperreal.org'
Date:
Wed, 14 Oct 1998 11:23:15 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) Tally Ho!
Reply to:
(idm) Tally Ho!
permalink · <Pine.BSI.3.95.981014110829.12577A-100000@we1.web-elite.com>
Tally Ho! is one killer record. With every Luke Vibert release I am reminded how much fun can be had with a bunch of vinyl records and a sampler (well throw some synths in too for good measure). I love Ae type stuff, but when it becomes too much abstraction, I always return to the collage work of Vibert and Amon (and others). You know what I mean, it's not about treating the samples, it's about how they interact with each in certain contexts. I believe that often that takes more skill than delving into abstraction... My favorite art is the kind filled with contrasts, and Luke Vibert's work is no excpetion. Never have I heard such meticulous attention to detail sound so care-free. His records consistently create a good vibe, reminding the listener not to take the artist too seriously, because after all he's just dorking around with his sampler and a collection of records. DJ shadow eat your heart out. peace Nate On Wed, 14 Oct 1998, Sean McGonagle wrote:
quoted 18 lines Hi all,> Hi all, > > Wondering what people are thinking about the new Wagon Christ full-length. > I just picked up a copy yesterday -- which i think was the domestic release > date anyway. > > I know that there has been some talk about it, but just curious what others > think. > > In light of Throbbing Pouch, it seems as though he collected a lot of fun > wacky material and lots of fun new toys and gadgets just before Throbbing > Pouch was recorded . . . But now this new release seems like he's learned > more about his new toys ... same style, same general feel, but fuller and > more mature (dare i say??). > > Curious if others think the same, > sean. >
1998-10-16 23:24CheOn Wed, 14 Oct 1998, Nate Harrison [Toshok Laboratories] wrote: > My favorite art is the k
From:
Che
Cc:
'idm@hyperreal.org'
Date:
Fri, 16 Oct 1998 16:24:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) Tally Ho!
Reply to:
Re: (idm) Tally Ho!
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On Wed, 14 Oct 1998, Nate Harrison [Toshok Laboratories] wrote:
quoted 3 lines My favorite art is the kind filled with contrasts, and Luke Vibert's work> My favorite art is the kind filled with contrasts, and Luke Vibert's work > is no excpetion. Never have I heard such meticulous attention to detail > sound so care-free.
Does this mean Vibert is finally taking the time to make sure his samples are in tune and in key? Che
1998-10-17 18:28Dave WalkerChe wrote: > Does this mean Vibert is finally taking the time to make sure his samples > a
From:
Dave Walker
To:
'idm@hyperreal.org'
Date:
Sat, 17 Oct 1998 14:28:30 -0400
Subject:
Re: (idm) Tally Ho!
permalink · <3628E1BF.DF72F995@mich.com>
Che wrote:
quoted 2 lines Does this mean Vibert is finally taking the time to make sure his samples> Does this mean Vibert is finally taking the time to make sure his samples > are in tune and in key?
The day I ever start to even remotely care about anything like that someone please kindly take me out back and kindly put a big-assed slug in the back of my head. pretty damned glad to have never taken courses in music theory, -d.w.
1998-10-17 19:26CheIt doesn't have anything to do w/ music theory. Some people are physically sensitive to it
From:
Che
To:
Intelligent Dumb Music
Date:
Sat, 17 Oct 1998 12:26:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) Tally Ho
Reply to:
Re: (idm) Tally Ho!
permalink · <Pine.BSF.3.96.981017121600.11771C-100000@beacon.synthcom.com>
It doesn't have anything to do w/ music theory. Some people are physically sensitive to it. Sometimes I find something out of key to be painful. No shit. I heard a blind guy interviewed on NPR once who had to listen to just-tempered instruments, because well-tempered ones were too out of tune for him. Even then, he found some classical composers to be discordant. Personally, I find it to be a curse, especially since there are so many tone-deaf people making techno. There are 3 tracks on Big Soup that I can't listen to, so I think the question is valid. Che On Sat, 17 Oct 1998, Dave Walker wrote:
quoted 15 lines Che wrote:> Che wrote: > > > Does this mean Vibert is finally taking the time to make sure his samples > > are in tune and in key? > > The day I ever start to even remotely care about anything like that > someone please kindly take me out back and kindly > put a big-assed slug in the back of my head. > > pretty damned glad to have never > taken courses in music theory, > -d.w. > > >
1998-10-17 19:24sfwd productions> Personally, I find it to be a curse, especially since there are so many > tone-deaf peop
From:
sfwd productions
To:
Intelligent Dumb Music , Che
Date:
Sat, 17 Oct 1998 12:24:55 -0700
Subject:
Re: (idm) Tally Ho
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Re: (idm) Tally Ho
permalink · <199810171921.MAA02363@sub.sonic.net>
quoted 3 lines Personally, I find it to be a curse, especially since there are so many> Personally, I find it to be a curse, especially since there are so many > tone-deaf people making techno. There are 3 tracks on Big Soup that I > can't listen to, so I think the question is valid.
Never ever ever listen to any of my tracks then :) brap@sonic.net icq_12645306 http://www.sonic.net/~brap/ coming sooner than later: sfwd0004 - pre-mil·len·ni·um soundscapes 12" our future has never been so frightening: http://williamshatner.com/
1998-10-18 20:37Michael UptonOn Sat, 17 Oct 1998, Che wrote: | Personally, I find it to be a curse, especially since th
From:
Michael Upton
To:
Date:
Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:37:51 +1300 (NZDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) Tally Ho
Reply to:
Re: (idm) Tally Ho
permalink · <Pine.BSF.4.02A.9810190925350.4363-100000@tao.sans.vuw.ac.nz>
On Sat, 17 Oct 1998, Che wrote: | Personally, I find it to be a curse, especially since there are so many | tone-deaf people making techno. There are 3 tracks on Big Soup that I | can't listen to, so I think the question is valid. Umm, do you mean tone-deaf, or not having perfect pitch? Tally Ho! sounds to me as tuned as any "pop" record I've heard. He also doesn't blatantly play things in different keys, like he has, if that's what you mean from a non-music theory perspective. Michael ____________________________________________ "Also, he has automatic evasion devices" http://www.vuw.ac.nz/~michael/jj.html
1998-10-18 16:29Irene McCOn 17 Oct 98, Dave Walker wrote re: Re: (idm) Tally Ho!: > The day I ever start to even re
From:
Irene McC
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Date:
Sun, 18 Oct 1998 18:29:36 +0200
Subject:
Re: (idm) Tally Ho!
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Re: (idm) Tally Ho!
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On 17 Oct 98, Dave Walker wrote re: Re: (idm) Tally Ho!:
quoted 6 lines The day I ever start to even remotely care about anything like that> The day I ever start to even remotely care about anything like that > someone please kindly take me out back and kindly > put a big-assed slug in the back of my head. > > pretty damned glad to have never > taken courses in music theory,
Jeez, I'm trying to force my two bits of jaw together. I * no : Fila Brazillia - Powerclown (yip, it's in tune :-))
1998-10-18 20:57Michael UptonOn Sat, 17 Oct 1998, Dave Walker wrote: | The day I ever start to even remotely care about
From:
Michael Upton
To:
Date:
Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:57:43 +1300 (NZDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) Tally Ho!
Reply to:
Re: (idm) Tally Ho!
permalink · <Pine.BSF.4.02A.9810190940570.4363-100000@tao.sans.vuw.ac.nz>
On Sat, 17 Oct 1998, Dave Walker wrote: | The day I ever start to even remotely care about anything like that | someone please kindly take me out back and kindly put a big-assed slug | in the back of my head. | pretty damned glad to have never | taken courses in music theory, Music theory doesn't do that to you, just as being able to play a guitar quickly doesn't mean you will play noodly solos. Maybe there is an overlap in who wants to learn that kind of stuff, but one doesn't automatically mean the other. As with all kinds of information, you can collect it cos you want to find out more about what you already like, or you can collect it cos you have been told it's important to do so. Hmm false dichotomy, but never mind. Michael np. 'Stuck inside of Mobile with the Memphis Blues Again' - Bob Dylan (it rocks ;) ____________________________________________ "Also, he has automatic evasion devices" http://www.vuw.ac.nz/~michael/jj.html
1998-10-19 15:11ChaircrusherOn Sat, 17 Oct 1998, Dave Walker wrote: > Che wrote: > > > Does this mean Vibert is finall
From:
Chaircrusher
To:
Dave Walker
Cc:
'idm@hyperreal.org'
Date:
Mon, 19 Oct 1998 10:11:57 -0500 (CDT)
Subject:
Re: (idm) Tally Ho!
Reply to:
Re: (idm) Tally Ho!
permalink · <Pine.HPP.3.96.981019094926.27758D-100000@arthur.avalon.net>
On Sat, 17 Oct 1998, Dave Walker wrote:
quoted 11 lines Che wrote:> Che wrote: > > > Does this mean Vibert is finally taking the time to make sure his samples > > are in tune and in key? > > The day I ever start to even remotely care about anything like that > someone please kindly take me out back and kindly > put a big-assed slug in the back of my head. > > pretty damned glad to have never > taken courses in music theory,
I HAVE taken courses in Music Theory, and I never hear 'out of tune' samples in Luke Vibert's stuff, so maybe I have a wider concept of in tune and in key than Che. What Charlie Parker brought to jazz back in the 40's was extending the concept of what was in key. Hip Hoppers and adventerous samplers make things that 'sound right' even though they're juxtaposing things that are nominally in different keys. To some extent they're plowing the same row as Charlie Parker was. It all comes from the harmonic series. A C major chord is C-E-G, C Minor is C-Eb-G. If you add the flat seven (C-E-G-Bb) then you have a C7, the basic blues chord. If you add the sharp seven (C-E-G-B) then you have the basic jazz chord. What if you keep going up the chordal scale? You can have a 9th chord (C-E-G-D) or flat 9th (C-E-G-C#) or 11th (C-E-G-F) or 13th (C-E-G-A). Now, think on this: If C is your root key, and you start adding notes to the chord at the 7th, you have the C triad (C-E-G) and add in the seventh, nineth and eleventh (B D F) then you have a C chord up against a B diminished chord. B to F is a Tritone, or 'diminished' 5th, which is a dischord. But it can work harmonically to the ear if it's done right. Furthermore if you add the 9th, 11th, and 13th to a C major chord, you're playing (C-E-G) against (D F A) which is a D minor chord. But it can work to your ear, even though you're playing chords in two different keys together! So maybe that's too analytical for you, but the fact remains that the concept of 'in key' and 'out of key' are fuzzy concepts. And if you want to talk about 'in tune' and 'out of tune' I can throw up a similar argument about the concept of intonation. Did you know that 95% of western music is out of tune, and that it's done that way on purpose?
1998-10-19 14:00Brad Shelton>Pop music tends not to suffer from this because pop musicians have >producers, and one of
From:
Brad Shelton
To:
Date:
Mon, 19 Oct 1998 09:00:03 -0500
Subject:
Re: (idm) Tally Ho!
permalink · <4.1.19981019082807.0094fbe0@mail.cte.net>
quoted 5 lines Pop music tends not to suffer from this because pop musicians have>Pop music tends not to suffer from this because pop musicians have >producers, and one of the producer's main tasks is to make sure everything >is in tune and in key. When someone says something is "well produced", they >should make sure the music's not out of tune or dissonant (unless >dissnonance is desired).
My experience is the opposite. Recent pop music, which in the US is largely r&b and rap, has many many examples of samples and loops thrown together without regard to key signature. (not a criticism, just an observation). On the other hand, I've rarely perceived that in this-listy music.
quoted 5 lines I think most non-tone-deaf people can tell when something is badly out of>I think most non-tone-deaf people can tell when something is badly out of >tune or key, as long as it's not the bass (most musicians I know have >trouble tuning a bass - I've heard out of tune bass on 4Hero, Amon Tobin, >Seefeel, and lots of others). It factors into whether or not something >sounds good or bad, even if there's no formal knowledge of the rules.
Ah! Now we're getting somewhere. This I have experienced, and pondered. I think there's an explanation for this. The bass you're referring to in most of those cases, if not all, is not your standard bass guitar-- it's more of a techno-style dub bass, a good octave (or two) lower than the bass you'd hear on a Nile Rodgers-produced Duran Duran record (for example). =) My explanation- Sounds that low (bass or otherwise) tend to 'lose' their pitch. If you've got a synth or sampler, try it- alter a sound to play a couple of octaves lower than usual, and play a well known melody on the left-end of the keyboard. It will sound like mush, even though you're pressing the correct keys, playing it 'in key'. The sub-bass you're referring to above (Seefeel, Amon Tobin, much drum-n-bass) is an example of this in action. I think the notes are correct (in key), and also in tune-- you just have to get past the effect noted above. In my experience the sub-base resolves better (sounds better in tune) if you listen to it loud, with headphones on, more carefully, or a combination thereof.
quoted 7 lines Luckily most digital synths are always in tune, and most techno boffins>Luckily most digital synths are always in tune, and most techno boffins >quickly learn how to work the "tune" knob on their analogue kit, so it's >usually not a problem. However, samples aren't always in tune, especially >when transposed to fit a tempo. That's where I tend to have problems. I >think the worst case I've ever heard was an Ultramarine track that sampled >the Beagle's "One Of These Nights" (Saratoga, I think. Left a bad taste in >my mouth, but my friend Cam insists that I give them another shot.).
This sounds like a different issue, one of personal preference. The sample on that tune never struck me as offensive, though if I recall correctly (through the years) it was in a different key from the rest of the track. That kind of key-juxtaposition is a part of sampling culture, I think-- it's as much a side-effect/tool of sampling/dj culture as beat-juxtaposition [1] is. Or surface noise, or timestretching, or any other variation of musical building blocks. Sometimes it sounds bad to me (some of the lightweight pop tunes referred to at the start of this e-mail). But sometimes it works for me. Especially with reference to Vibert- as someone recently said, (paraphrase) his work has a sense of humor that constantly reminds the listener to not take his records so seriously. (/paraphrase) The use of wigged-out samples (including those out-of-key) is part of that humor to me. Though I have to admit, on the Vibert releases I have (Throbbing Pouch, At Atmos, Plug 2CD) there aren't any places that leap out as having incorrectly pitched samples. - Brad [1] Not just beat matching. Like laying a 4-4 groove over a 3-4 shuffle. For example, try BoC track 2 and that laid-back shuffling Mannequin Lung track (6 I think, or 7). Niiiice. Any others out there have a polyrythmic secret weapon they would like to share? ;)