IDM Mailing Archive

I finished "Generation Ecstacy" by Simon Reynolds this week. What promised to be the *definitive* history of techno and electronics boiled down to a little good history and a heavy dose of subjectivity. His amazingly obnoxious attitude about substance abuse (at times its like he is saying "If you ain't high, you don't know nothin' about techno") and his haughty dismissal of non club-oriented electronics is really hard to stomach. Worse of all, he parades the usual list of post-modernists (Baudrillard, Virilo, blah) as his theoretical backing. A much better music book with similar aims is "Ocean of Sound" by David Toop. It has a much broader perspective, and gives a good overview of the modern techno/electronic scene (in addition to jazz, ambient, weird rock and other forms).

quoted 9 lines Would list members be willing to reveal what book(s) they're reading at the

>Would list members be willing to reveal what book(s) they're reading at the >moment? It >might be interesting. For example, I just finished skimming through a book >on physics >by Prigogine. > >thanks, mikail > >

In response: I haven't read "Generation Ecstacy", but I have read a fair bit of Reynolds' other work (articles, mostly). While I agree that his attitudes towards substance use are grating at times (especially for somebody who doesn't really use illicit substances), I find myself agreeing with him on other subjects sometimes. His dismissal of cookie-cutter fungle/drill-n-bass/whatever especially hits home - check http://members.aol.com/blissout/over97.htm for the full article. As annoying as I find his overdependence on his own coined terms ("heroin house" to describe Chain Reaction material, especially), I find his willingness to aim at the sacred cows refreshing.

quoted 8 lines I finished "Generation Ecstacy" by Simon Reynolds this week. What promised

> I finished "Generation Ecstacy" by Simon Reynolds this week. What promised > to be the *definitive* history of techno and electronics boiled down to a > little good history and a heavy dose of subjectivity. His amazingly > obnoxious attitude about substance abuse (at times its like he is saying "If > you ain't high, you don't know nothin' about techno") and his haughty > dismissal of non club-oriented electronics is really hard to stomach. Worse > of all, he parades the usual list of post-modernists (Baudrillard, Virilo, > blah) as his theoretical backing.

I found Toop's book interesting, but a little too filled with seemingly purposeless name-dropping at times. I also found myself wondering at the tenuous nature of some of the connections he drew (especially between things like gamelan music and today's ambient via the minimalists composers such as Steve Reich). I'm not nearly as knowledgable about some of the history as he is, so maybe it's there & I'm just not seeing it or don't know about it. If you're looking for pure history about music that influences IDM/electronics, check "Reggae: A Rough Guide", especially the chapters on dub's development. It's excellent.

quoted 4 lines A much better music book with similar aims is "Ocean of Sound" by David

> A much better music book with similar aims is "Ocean of Sound" by David > Toop. It has a much broader perspective, and gives a good overview of the > modern techno/electronic scene (in addition to jazz, ambient, weird rock and > other forms).

Also, no idm-related book review session would be complete without mentioning the disquiet site: http://www.disquiet.com/ An excellent resource for those interested in reading while they listen. Bill / dj marathon

quoted 10 lines Would list members be willing to reveal what book(s) they're reading at the

> >Would list members be willing to reveal what book(s) they're reading at the > >moment? It > >might be interesting. For example, I just finished skimming through a book > >on physics > >by Prigogine. > > > >thanks, mikail > > > > >

-- work: www.sigma6.com connect: 313.sigma6.com

quoted 7 lines I haven't read "Generation Ecstacy", but I have read a fair bit of

> I haven't read "Generation Ecstacy", but I have read a fair bit of > Reynolds' other work (articles, mostly). While I agree that his attitudes > towards substance use are grating at times (especially for somebody who > doesn't really use illicit substances), I find myself agreeing with him on > other subjects sometimes. His dismissal of cookie-cutter > fungle/drill-n-bass/whatever especially hits home - check > http://members.aol.com/blissout/over97.htm for the full article. As

refer to Wire issues #136 and #137 for the heated class/racial controversy surrounding Simon Reynolds' article on Jungle. it provides some interesting reading, if you missed it the first time around. Reynolds' defense being that he was addressing a tension in the Jungle community between two impulses: gentrification versus ghettocentricity. whateva' man. you can try guessing the accussations. i'm a little too busy to type all this stuff out, sorry. doesn't Reynolds have his own homepage or something? when ranking Simon Reynolds against Princetonian Babbitry, i'm gonna have to go with the ghettocenctricity of Other Music... eric.

My broadest complaint about Reynolds is that he seems to be promoting a very conservative view of techno which dictates that progress can't come unless you are fooling around within a strict formula. I will be the first to admit that a lot of the mergers don't work (jazz fusion-jungle for example) but at least people are trying to expand. The comments about coined terms is right own. My favorite is "Mentasm stab." On the positive side, I did like his stuff on Gabba, "'ardcore" and jungle.

quoted 13 lines In response:

>In response: > >I haven't read "Generation Ecstacy", but I have read a fair bit of >Reynolds' other work (articles, mostly). While I agree that his attitudes >towards substance use are grating at times (especially for somebody who >doesn't really use illicit substances), I find myself agreeing with him on >other subjects sometimes. His dismissal of cookie-cutter >fungle/drill-n-bass/whatever especially hits home - check >http://members.aol.com/blissout/over97.htm for the full article. As >annoying as I find his overdependence on his own coined terms ("heroin >house" to describe Chain Reaction material, especially), I find his >willingness to aim at the sacred cows refreshing. >

The minimalist/gamelan connection is pretty strong. I believe the liner notes to Reich's revised "Music for 18 Musicians" go into some detail about this. Previous discussions on the list have brought into question the ambient and minimalist link but I think there is a legitimate comparison.

quoted 13 lines I found Toop's book interesting, but a little too filled with seemingly

> >I found Toop's book interesting, but a little too filled with seemingly >purposeless name-dropping at times. I also found myself wondering at the >tenuous nature of some of the connections he drew (especially between >things like gamelan music and today's ambient via the minimalists >composers such as Steve Reich). I'm not nearly as knowledgable about some >of the history as he is, so maybe it's there & I'm just not seeing it or >don't know about it. > >If you're looking for pure history about music that influences >IDM/electronics, check "Reggae: A Rough Guide", especially the chapters on >dub's development. It's excellent. >

quoted 6 lines Also, no idm-related book review session would be complete without

>Also, no idm-related book review session would be complete without >mentioning the disquiet site: > > http://www.disquiet.com/ > >An excellent resource for those interested in reading while they listen.

quoted 1 line The comments about coined terms is right own. My favorite is "Mentasm

> The comments about coined terms is right own. My favorite is "Mentasm

stab."

quoted 1 line On the positive side, I did like his stuff on Gabba, "'ardcore" and

> On the positive side, I did like his stuff on Gabba, "'ardcore" and

jungle. I think with "Mentasm stab", he's referring to the hoover sound used by Joey Beltram's 'Mentasm'. As nicked by Liam Howlet for 'Charly'.