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(idm) it takes the physical....

27 messages · 20 participants · spans 5 days · search this subject
1998-07-07 14:59Aran M. Parillo (idm) it takes the physical....
└─ 1998-07-09 19:13marsel Re: (idm) it takes the physical....
1998-07-07 21:50rob joanisse re: (idm) it takes the physical....
└─ 1998-07-07 22:21Michael Upton re: (idm) it takes the physical....
1998-07-08 01:55rob joanisse re: (idm) it takes the physical....
1998-07-08 05:08Chris re: (idm) it takes the physical....
└─ 1998-07-08 18:32Nate Harrison \[Toshok Laboratories\] re: (idm) it takes the physical....
1998-07-08 09:12WARD Giles RE: (idm) it takes the physical....
1998-07-08 15:23Christopher Fahey (idm) it takes the physical....
├─ 1998-07-09 00:32Mark Kolmar Re: (idm) it takes the physical....
└─ 1998-07-09 02:13Solenoid Re: (idm) it takes the physical....
1998-07-08 16:27Sebastien Dalphond Re: (idm) it takes the physical....
1998-07-08 16:36Geoffrey Langham Re: (idm) it takes the physical....
1998-07-08 16:52Jon Drukman Re: (idm) it takes the physical....
1998-07-08 21:24mult santa Re: (idm) it takes the physical....
└─ 1998-07-08 23:13GamePrg. Re: (idm) it takes the physical....
└─ 1998-07-09 11:43Nate Harrison \[Toshok Laboratories\] Re: (idm) it takes the physical....
1998-07-08 21:36daniel Re: (idm) it takes the physical....
1998-07-09 03:52Re: (idm) it takes the physical....
1998-07-09 08:39WARD Giles RE: (idm) it takes the physical....
├─ 1998-07-09 12:08siliconvortex Re: (idm) it takes the physical....
└─ 1998-07-09 20:05GamePrg. RE: (idm) it takes the physical....
└─ 1998-07-09 23:54mallen RE: (idm) it takes the physical....
1998-07-09 15:54WARD Giles RE: (idm) it takes the physical....
1998-07-09 22:24rob joanisse Re: (idm) it takes the physical....
├─ 1998-07-09 18:36Nate Harrison \[Toshok Laboratories\] Re: (idm) it takes the physical....
└─ 1998-07-12 16:49Ben Coffer Re: (idm) it takes the physical....
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1998-07-07 14:59Aran M. Parillophotek news from awerks w3 http://www.astralwerks.com/ Photek will be coming over in mid-t
From:
Aran M. Parillo
To:
Date:
Tue, 7 Jul 1998 07:59:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:
(idm) it takes the physical....
permalink · <Pine.BSF.3.96.980707075717.5950D-100000@taz.hyperreal.org>
photek news from awerks w3 http://www.astralwerks.com/ Photek will be coming over in mid-to late July for a short set of DJ gigs, his first-ever in America. The gigs will coincide with the release of "Form and Function" which is now set for release on August 25. The album is a collection of the out-of-print early Photek singles on his own Photek label, along with remixes of all of those songs by: Grooverider, Doc Scott, Photek, J Majik, Digital, and Peshay; as well as two brand new Photek tracks. "Rings Around Saturn" plus a remix of this song by PESHAY "The Lightning" plus a remix of this song by DIGITAL "U.F.O" plus a remix of this song by J MAJIK "Water Margin" plus a remix of this song by DOC SCOTT "Seventh Samurai" plus a remix of this song by PHOTEK "Resolution" plus a remix of this song by GROOVERIDER plus two additional tracks to be announced
1998-07-09 19:13marselAt 07:59 7-7-98 -0700, you wrote: > "Seventh Samurai" > plus a remix of this song by PHOTE
From:
marsel
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Date:
Thu, 09 Jul 1998 21:13:02 +0200
Subject:
Re: (idm) it takes the physical....
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(idm) it takes the physical....
permalink · <3.0.5.32.19980709211302.008049c0@post.demon.nl>
At 07:59 7-7-98 -0700, you wrote:
quoted 2 lines "Seventh Samurai"> "Seventh Samurai" > plus a remix of this song by PHOTEK
this one is really the bomb. rupert is playing this one loud all the time!! (and does it sound like SD' Snake Style??? yes! :D ____________________________________ forcefield | mindless entertainment http://www.sonik.demon.nl/forcefield
1998-07-07 21:50rob joanisse>label, along with remixes of all of those songs by: Grooverider, Doc >Scott, Photek, J Ma
From:
rob joanisse
To:
Date:
Tue, 07 Jul 1998 17:50:34 -0400
Subject:
re: (idm) it takes the physical....
permalink · <35A2982A.290C@ns.sympatico.ca>
quoted 3 lines label, along with remixes of all of those songs by: Grooverider, Doc>label, along with remixes of all of those songs by: Grooverider, Doc >Scott, Photek, J Majik, Digital, and Peshay; as well as two brand new >Photek tracks.
hmmm... is this all going to fit on one cd? i hope that they are actual remixes and not just amens dropped over samples of the originals.
quoted 1 line plus two additional tracks to be announced>plus two additional tracks to be announced
does anyone in the know have the titles of these 2 tracks? (i hope one of them is that track "mingus" i've heard so much about) rj.
1998-07-07 22:21Michael UptonOn Tue, 7 Jul 1998, rob joanisse wrote: [photek remixes] | i hope that they are actual rem
From:
Michael Upton
To:
Date:
Wed, 8 Jul 1998 10:21:48 +1200 (NZST)
Subject:
re: (idm) it takes the physical....
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re: (idm) it takes the physical....
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On Tue, 7 Jul 1998, rob joanisse wrote: [photek remixes] | i hope that they are actual remixes and not just amens dropped over | samples of the originals. Now days it would be more likely that they'd strip away all the breaks and just use that "two-step" rhythm boom paf boom paf ad infinitum. Something about that bugs me far more than a relatively unobtrusive "boom" on every beat in a techno / house /whatever tune. I mean, the above _can_ be cool, but it's soooo played out. It's more of a cliche than the old amen break, because at least people cut the rhythm of that one up sometimes. Michael "You know what? I'll call him Jet Jaguar..." http://www.vuw.ac.nz/~michael/jj.html Site last updated 15/4/98
1998-07-08 01:55rob joanisse>Now days it would be more likely that they'd strip away all the breaks >and just use that
From:
rob joanisse
To:
Date:
Tue, 07 Jul 1998 21:55:25 -0400
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re: (idm) it takes the physical....
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quoted 7 lines Now days it would be more likely that they'd strip away all the breaks >and just u>Now days it would be more likely that they'd strip away all the breaks >and just use that "two-step" rhythm > >boom paf boom paf > >ad infinitum. Something about that bugs me far more than a relatively >unobtrusive "boom" on every beat in a techno / house /whatever tune. I >mean, the above _can_ be cool, but it's soooo played out. It's more of >a cliche than >the old amen break, because at least people cut the >rhythm of that one up sometimes.
a friend and i were just talking about the old two-stepper. funny how alex reece was universally dismissed for overusing this break, but now it's the most popular break around... you've even got your simon reynoldses writing articles about how revolutionary it is. neurofunk anyone?.... imho it's sucking the innovation right out of the music. then again "funktion" by ed rush and optical _does_ uses it to splendid effect... r.
1998-07-08 05:08Chrishello all. fotive me if this seems an ignorant question, but i was just wondering what exa
From:
Chris
To:
Date:
Tue, 7 Jul 1998 23:08:36 -0600
Subject:
re: (idm) it takes the physical....
permalink · <199807080508.XAA00059@home1.trib.com>
hello all. fotive me if this seems an ignorant question, but i was just wondering what exactly an amen break is? i listen to primarily electronic music and loads of it, however i'm not too familiar with the actual terms dealing with things such as breaks. so, it'd be great if anybody could tell me at least what an amen break is, and maybe if someone is willing to take the time, a small glossary of sorts, or where i can find one on the web, of the various terms dealing with electronic music theory, rhythm, etc. thanks much.
quoted 7 lines ad infinitum. Something about that bugs me far more than a relatively>ad infinitum. Something about that bugs me far more than a relatively >unobtrusive "boom" on every beat in a techno / house /whatever tune. I >mean, the above _can_ be cool, but it's soooo played out. It's more of a >cliche than the old amen break, because at least people cut the rhythm of >that one up sometimes. > >
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Chris Perkins "It's nice to be important, cdperk@trib.com but it's more important to be nice." <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> http://members.wbs.net/homepages/t/e/k/teknodeth.html <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Man is no machine, Thorns they lurk on Man is no God, rose's stem. Mankind is, and always will be... Thorns they do intend a pest. no harm then. -Claus Larsen -:Wumpscut: <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
1998-07-08 18:32Nate Harrison \[Toshok Laboratories\]the amem break is arguably the most used drum loop sample, across genres, with the excepti
From:
Nate Harrison \[Toshok Laboratories\]
To:
Chris
Cc:
Date:
Wed, 8 Jul 1998 18:32:49 +0000 ()
Subject:
re: (idm) it takes the physical....
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re: (idm) it takes the physical....
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the amem break is arguably the most used drum loop sample, across genres, with the exception of perhaps Funky Drummer/James Brown stuff. Everyone, I mean everyone has taken a stab at it: Luke Vibert, Tom Jenkinson, Boymerang, the metalheadz crew, ATR, MuZiq (well I heard used live), Roni Size, Archon II, and even 80's hip hoppers 3rd base...the list is endless... it's taken from the song Amen Brother by the Winstons. There are several web pages about the infamous break if you do a search... If you have Plug's drumnbass for papa record, the title track uses the amen. hope that helps... Nate On Tue, 7 Jul 1998, Chris wrote:
quoted 32 lines hello all. fotive me if this seems an ignorant question, but i was just> hello all. fotive me if this seems an ignorant question, but i was just > wondering what exactly an amen break is? i listen to primarily electronic > music and loads of it, however i'm not too familiar with the actual terms > dealing with things such as breaks. so, it'd be great if anybody could tell > me at least what an amen break is, and maybe if someone is willing to take > the time, a small glossary of sorts, or where i can find one on the web, of > the various terms dealing with electronic music theory, rhythm, etc. thanks > much. > > >ad infinitum. Something about that bugs me far more than a relatively > >unobtrusive "boom" on every beat in a techno / house /whatever tune. I > >mean, the above _can_ be cool, but it's soooo played out. It's more of a > >cliche than the old amen break, because at least people cut the rhythm of > >that one up sometimes. > > > > > > > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > Chris Perkins "It's nice to be important, > cdperk@trib.com but it's more important to be nice." > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > http://members.wbs.net/homepages/t/e/k/teknodeth.html > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > Man is no machine, Thorns they lurk on > Man is no God, rose's stem. > Mankind is, and always will be... Thorns they do intend > a pest. no harm then. > -Claus Larsen -:Wumpscut: > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > >
1998-07-08 09:12WARD GilesSeems to me like a lot of the people making this 'two step' stuff don't even have a grasp
From:
WARD Giles
To:
'idm@hyperreal.org'
Date:
Wed, 8 Jul 1998 10:12:04 +0100
Subject:
RE: (idm) it takes the physical....
permalink · <199807080914.KAA05572@gateway1.sema.co.uk>
Seems to me like a lot of the people making this 'two step' stuff don't even have a grasp on where things originally started - funky breaks, chopped up into your own original rhythms. Drum and bass seems to be getting more and more formularised - especially as you can buy your own ready cut up breaks on sample CDs.
quoted 24 lines Now days it would be more likely that they'd strip away all the> >Now days it would be more likely that they'd strip away all the > breaks >and just use that "two-step" rhythm > > > >boom paf boom paf > > > >ad infinitum. Something about that bugs me far more than a relatively > >unobtrusive "boom" on every beat in a techno / house /whatever tune. > I > >mean, the above _can_ be cool, but it's soooo played out. It's more > of >a cliche than >the old amen break, because at least people cut the > >rhythm of that one up sometimes. > > a friend and i were just talking about the old two-stepper. funny how > alex reece was universally dismissed for overusing this break, but now > it's the most popular break around... you've even got your simon > reynoldses writing articles about how revolutionary it is. neurofunk > anyone?.... > > imho it's sucking the innovation right out of the music. then again > "funktion" by ed rush and optical _does_ uses it to splendid effect... > > > r. >
1998-07-08 15:23Christopher Fahey>From: Chris <cdperk@trib.com> >Subject: re: (idm) it takes the physical.... > >hello all.
From:
Christopher Fahey
To:
IDM ,
Date:
Wed, 8 Jul 1998 11:23:19 -0400
Subject:
(idm) it takes the physical....
permalink · <025201bdaa84$a3acfcb0$682c43d1@eniac.raremedium.com>
quoted 5 lines From: Chris <cdperk@trib.com>>From: Chris <cdperk@trib.com> >Subject: re: (idm) it takes the physical.... > >hello all. fotive me if this seems an ignorant question, but i was just >wondering what exactly an amen break is?
This web site will make you want to throw away half of your drum and bass collection instantly. Basically, 99% of jungle is formulaic crap and here's how you can make your own track it in a half an hour: http://www.tiac.net/users/sheket/breaks.html Very informative and probably very bubble-bursting for some. About a year ago I was introduced to the Amen break via this list and I began to notice that artists I had previously thought to be interesting programmers turned out to be lazy samplers. This site makes the extent of that very clear. Have fun! ' - . _ . - ' ^ ' - . _ . - ' ^ ' - . _ . - c h r i s t ø p h e r f ª h e y . _ . - ' ^ ' - . _ . - ' ^ ' - . _ . - ' ^ chris@raremedium.com 2 1 2 - 6 3 4 - 6 9 5 0 x 2 5 8 http://www.raremedium.com - ' ^ ' - . _ . - ' ^ ' - . _ . - ' ^ ' - .
1998-07-09 00:32Mark KolmarOn Wed, 8 Jul 1998, Christopher Fahey wrote: > here's how you can make your own track it i
From:
Mark Kolmar
To:
Christopher Fahey
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IDM
Date:
Wed, 8 Jul 1998 19:32:27 -0500 (CDT)
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Re: (idm) it takes the physical....
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(idm) it takes the physical....
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On Wed, 8 Jul 1998, Christopher Fahey wrote:
quoted 4 lines here's how you can make your own track it in a half an hour:> here's how you can make your own track it in a half an hour: > http://www.tiac.net/users/sheket/breaks.html [...] artists I had > previously thought to be interesting programmers turned out to be lazy > samplers. This site makes the extent of that very clear. Have fun!
On the other hand, resources like this have proved very useful to me, to provide source sounds for further manipulation. It still takes a skilled chef to make delicious soup from store-bought ingredients, even with shelves full of cup-o'-soup. --Mark __ <http://www.xnet.com/~mkolmar/BurningRome> < MPEG & RA audio clips > Forthcoming CD SENSELESS on Mindfield Records MINDCD03 Cathartium 14 "The electricity is no better off than on."
1998-07-09 02:13SolenoidOn Wed, 8 Jul 1998, Christopher Fahey wrote: > >From: Chris <cdperk@trib.com> > >Subject:
From:
Solenoid
To:
Christopher Fahey
Cc:
IDM ,
Date:
Wed, 8 Jul 1998 19:13:14 -0700 (PDT)
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Re: (idm) it takes the physical....
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(idm) it takes the physical....
permalink · <Pine.GSO.3.96.980708185844.20391G-100000@thetics.europa.com>
On Wed, 8 Jul 1998, Christopher Fahey wrote:
quoted 18 lines From: Chris <cdperk@trib.com>> >From: Chris <cdperk@trib.com> > >Subject: re: (idm) it takes the physical.... > > > >hello all. fotive me if this seems an ignorant question, but i was just > >wondering what exactly an amen break is? > > This web site will make you want to throw away half of your drum and > bass collection instantly. Basically, 99% of jungle is formulaic crap and > here's how you can make your own track it in a half an hour: > > http://www.tiac.net/users/sheket/breaks.html > > > Very informative and probably very bubble-bursting for some. About a > year ago I was introduced to the Amen break via this list and I began to > notice that artists I had previously thought to be interesting programmers > turned out to be lazy samplers. This site makes the extent of that very > clear. Have fun!
Yes, this is a great page for just laying out these old break samples that have been used thru the 90's. It seems to me that the mid-90's algorhythms of samplers/software to timestretch is really a huge reason breakbeat was sort of reborn as d-n-b (look at 4-Hero then and now for instance). I like early Squarepusher, that 1st Carpet Bomb 12" and bits of early Chrome and Spymania vinyl. Maybe I'm not listenning to d-n-b..? What is that stuff? It seems different when it is programmed out on drum machines...more personality and variation...? Solenoid solenoid@europa.com <------+
1998-07-08 16:27Sebastien DalphondChristopher Fahey wrote: > > This web site will make you want to throw away half of your >
From:
Sebastien Dalphond
To:
Christopher Fahey
Cc:
IDM ,
Date:
Wed, 08 Jul 1998 12:27:00 -0400
Subject:
Re: (idm) it takes the physical....
permalink · <35A39DD4.626DA1E3@toonboom.com>
Christopher Fahey wrote:
quoted 13 lines This web site will make you want to throw away half of your> > This web site will make you want to throw away half of your > drum and bass collection instantly. Basically, 99% of jungle is > formulaic crap and here's how you can make your own track it in a > half an hour: > > http://www.tiac.net/users/sheket/breaks.html > > Very informative and probably very bubble-bursting for some. > About a year ago I was introduced to the Amen break via this list > and I began to notice that artists I had previously thought to be > interesting programmers turned out to be lazy samplers. This site > makes the extent of that very clear. Have fun!
I don't know how to take this; should it be an invitation to the drum and bass producers to put their samplers to the test and create inaudible sound collages, or as an upfront d&b hate disclaimer? Or maybe something else that I didn't get? I mean, I don't want to defend d&b artists, I'm not one of them and I don't particularily like the way drill'n'bass kind of took over, but isn't it the exact same thing going on with the basic techno tracks? Putting Derrick May, Jeff Mills, Christian Vogel, or even many (I'd better get ready for flaming here) Chain Reaction/Plug Research artists at the top for their creativity, while most of their releases are basic 4/4 beat oriented (granted some occasional extra-rhythm excursions) just seems to break your critic apart... Don't get me wrong. I love 4/4 techno, just as much as I love IDM in general and drum & bass. But I think that the whole electronica is based on samples, sequencers, hopefully giving it an organic feel to it by pitching in *real* instruments, vocals, warmth, rich layers, etc. At least, that was the way it was at first. I don't think that 99% of jungle is formulaic crap. Or IDM for the same matter. Just my op, probably not too well formulated. Sebastien
1998-07-08 16:36Geoffrey LanghamAll-- I don't know how many diehard drill and bass fans there are out there. It seems (as
From:
Geoffrey Langham
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Date:
Wed, 08 Jul 1998 12:36:50 -0400
Subject:
Re: (idm) it takes the physical....
permalink · <199807081636.MAA25881@adcam.pha.jhu.edu>
All-- I don't know how many diehard drill and bass fans there are out there. It seems (as far as I can judge by this list) that dl 'n' b isn't as popular, as say, ambient or trance or house or just about anything else (what would you call Ae?). I'm not really sure that drill and bass took over. The concept is intensely interesting but I don't think it can last much longer. There's only so much you can do with snare rushes before they get boring. I have a dumbass question, anyway--who are the drill and bass artists? I can think of u-ziq and TJ and just some of RDJ album--what else is out there that I haven't heard yet? --Geoff
1998-07-08 16:52Jon DrukmanSebastien Dalphond wrote: > I don't think that 99% of jungle is formulaic crap. Or IDM for
From:
Jon Drukman
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IDM
Date:
Wed, 08 Jul 1998 09:52:56 -0700
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Re: (idm) it takes the physical....
permalink · <35A3A3E8.5ED7E7DB@gamespot.com>
Sebastien Dalphond wrote:
quoted 2 lines I don't think that 99% of jungle is formulaic crap. Or IDM for the same> I don't think that 99% of jungle is formulaic crap. Or IDM for the same > matter.
i do. fortunately, that 1% keeps me coming back for more. good new thing i got: tranquility bass - "beep!" remixes by tb, tom chasteen (exist dance), ultramarine, fatboy (cough) slim. the ultramarine mix is pretty unbelievably cool. best thing i've heard from them in about 6 years. those in san francisco: tonight at the paradise lounge - the world premiere of bass kittens live... with me 'n' mark pistel going nuts with nord, moog, akai, roland, technics and a bullhorn. -- Jon Drukman jsd@gamespot.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Plan: Eat right, exercise regularly, die anyway.
1998-07-08 21:24mult santalangham@eta.pha.jhu.edu (Geoffrey Langham) writes: > I don't know how many diehard drill a
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mult santa
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,
Date:
Wed, 8 Jul 1998 17:24:20 -0400
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Re: (idm) it takes the physical....
permalink · <19980708.220133.2670.1.multsanta@juno.com>
langham@eta.pha.jhu.edu (Geoffrey Langham) writes:
quoted 2 lines I don't know how many diehard drill and bass fans there are> I don't know how many diehard drill and bass fans there are >out there.
i don't think i'll be the first to say that planet mu's mealtime compilation killed drill n' bass (see below), not to mention the apparant death of spymania. It was real big around here before that came out and spoiled it for everyone. IMHO, the only good sorta-drill n' bass record to come out after mealtime actually came from this side of the pond- the "attention cats" 12" on reckanklangswergue or whatever... and it's very good, as it goes back to the original wackiness that they were going for in the begining of the whole thing, rather than attempting to fill the stupid 'faster than anything breaks with no substance or purpose' mold. and Carpet Bomb deserves props for doing something innovative with drum n' bass, even if it's not of the drill type, per se.
quoted 2 lines I'm not really sure that>I'm not really sure that >drill and bass took over.
oh it did.. for a short while every big name artist was trying their hand at it and it spun off wack imitation labels like bovinyl.
quoted 3 lines I have a dumbass question, anyway--who are the drill and bass> I have a dumbass question, anyway--who are the drill and bass >artists? I can think of u-ziq and TJ and just some of RDJ album--what >else is out there that I haven't heard yet?
everyone says that the first drill n' bass record was afx's hangable auto bulb, but i think that it was actually richard's remix of wagonchrist's "spotlight"... regardless don't start that thread again. for me the first true 'drill n' bass' release from one of the non-big guys (rdj,tomj,mikep,lukev) was wafta's "college street zoo" on spymania. and also the spymania allstars comp. (both of which are long oop) Sadly, it's been over a year since the last spy release (not including the squarepusher compilation on warp), which was the d.i.a.l. ep, and wasn't even drill n' bass at all (though it was very good). Paddington Breaks (former Spymania) also did an ep for ill, which was pretty good. then there is that whole Animals On Wheels/Bovinyl type people. Which is pretty bad. Bovinyl has, i think, six records to date and Animals on Wheels has done two EPs and an album on Ninja Tune, also. plus there is the horde of sub-par jenkinson type imitators like Woodenspoon, Rubber Johnny , Max Tundra and such. and there are four compilations come to mind (in order of preference): -Noodles Pt. 1: The Death Of Cool (Noodles) On Si Begg's Label, completely wacked out and insane, while some of it doesn't count as drill n' bass it's got a lot of the drill n bass type people on it. Hardy Spymania, etc. Brilliant, one of my favorite records last year (unfortunetly it's 2x12" only.. .no cd) -Trash: Industrialsamplegrouchcore (Mille Plateux) A bunch of industrial hard as nails break beats from all Brigton producers. Someone was asking for harsh idm- here's your answer. Hardy Spymania, DJ Decay (aka Cristian Vogel), MilkyBoy (Bovinyl), etc. -Spunk Jazz (ill) Rather formulatic and fitting perfectly into the drill n' bass mold, yet before the point where it's just completely boring. Features just about everyone from the scene, Animals On Wheels, both the Wafta guys working on seperate tracks, our own lovable Horse Opera, Paddington Breaks, etc. -Mealtime (Planet Mu) Yuk, the worst drill n bass release yet. Aside from an interesting new direction for AFX, a second appearance of a classic wafta track, and a few more solid tracks from Horse Opera and Plug, it's mostly boring and derivite, despite all the big names (u-ziq, jega, animals on wheels).And yet it still managed to pull off great reviews... i think i'm gonna sit down and write a book on the (brief) history of drill n bass ;-) +/-mlt http://members.xoom.com/multsanta/ [uziq/musik aus strom/karaokekalk/++]
1998-07-08 23:13GamePrg.On Wednesday, 08-Jul-98, mult santa wrote [about Re: (idm) it takes the physical....]: >i
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GamePrg.
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mult santa
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IDM
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Wed, 08 Jul 1998 23:13:48 EST4EDT
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Re: (idm) it takes the physical....
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Re: (idm) it takes the physical....
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On Wednesday, 08-Jul-98, mult santa wrote [about Re: (idm) it takes the physical....]:
quoted 4 lines i don't think i'll be the first to say that planet mu's mealtime>i don't think i'll be the first to say that planet mu's mealtime >compilation killed drill n' bass (see below), not to mention the apparant >death of spymania. It was real big around here before that came out and >spoiled it for everyone.
Yep. I think that was the point of no return.
quoted 2 lines oh it did.. for a short while every big name artist was trying their hand>oh it did.. for a short while every big name artist was trying their hand >at it and it spun off wack imitation labels like bovinyl.
I believe the fact that it was dubbed a genre is the root of why it died.. (if it's dead yet??) I mean, it should have just been thought of as just something new that some people are doing, namely Tom J. and seemingly Aphex was inspired by Tom J a bit, and also Luke Vibert.. but then seemingly everyone was making these records that the beats were all very much a like, with overused snarerushes and pretty much most of the beats sounded the same, which the exception of AFX who clearly changed everything with Come to Daddy (the ep, not the track, well not the Pappy Mix at least). Bouncing Ball is something which I would hardly call drum/drill'n'bass but it's in the same vein as Richard D. James LP and the Hangable Auto Bulb's.. (in my opinion at least) but it seems when everyone started doing it, and I for one (as well as others) got sick of hearing the same sound, even though I still treasure FMWT, Lunatic Harness.. although I admit I don't play them as often as I used to. I think it's the same idea that in, if you listen to a certain album non-stop, over and over and over.. it's value is going to be diminished.
quoted 3 lines I have a dumbass question, anyway--who are the drill and bass>>I have a dumbass question, anyway--who are the drill and bass >>artists? I can think of u-ziq and TJ and just some of RDJ album--what >>else is out there that I haven't heard yet?
quoted 3 lines everyone says that the first drill n' bass record was afx's hangable auto>everyone says that the first drill n' bass record was afx's hangable auto >bulb, but i think that it was actually richard's remix of wagonchrist's >"spotlight"... regardless don't start that thread again.
I don't see why the hell Hangable Auto Bulb is considered drill'n'bass, even drum'n'bassish (before the hot term drill'n'bass was cued by details).. I mean, it sounds like just chopped up .. BEATS .. to me, like a lot of Autechre.. just that it's a bit fast.. (somewhat like cichlisuite, which was also dubbed as drill'n'bass-ish) I think because it's fast and not 4 on the floor that ppl think it's drum'n'bass.. another example of this is Flim.. the pretty piano melody with a drum'n'bassish drumtrack. what's so drum'n'bassish about it, really? doesn't sound like any drum'n'bass I've ever heard or jungle for that matter. although it think it's a lot better when ppl thought it was "rdj's" take on drum'n'bass.. or that Tom J. was just an eccentric jungle producer. Once on here someone said that an open-minded jungle dance crowd might get into somenoe dropping FMWT on the decks. by eccentric I mean that his music is a bit, different, from the rest of the jungle stuff out there. now Squarepusher yes.. but that's just sounds like really fast jungle.. I mean basically those are chopped up jungle breaks, maybe there's snare rushes in it, but no need to create a whole new genre out of it.. FMWT is great, Lunatic Harness is ABSOLUTE bliss, but I just am getting tired of it. I think it was something nice, but it should have never been "overused" the way that it has been. something new must replace it, and I think BoC did it nicely with Music Has The Right To Children, and also UZ-IZ, ctd (little lord faulteroy mix), and flim on come to daddy did it as well quite nicely.. I'm not saying that I don't like the drill'n'bass that's been released already, but I've noticed I've been staying away from a lot of the post-mealtime drill'n'bass stuff.
quoted 2 lines plus there is the horde of sub-par jenkinson type imitators like>plus there is the horde of sub-par jenkinson type imitators like >Woodenspoon, Rubber Johnny , Max Tundra and such.
EXACTLY my point.. I can almost say (almost) that the definition of drill'n'bass is "music that sounds extremely squarepusher-like." When I posted my review of Lunatic Harness I was bombarded by people saying that Mike P. is a total ripoff (it could have been another time?) of Squarepusher in there.. (but they also went to say he is a total ripoff on everything he did blabla..) and I didn't believe that at all, until the drill'n'bass stuff kept coming, and kept sounding the same. about woodenspoon, I think it's heaps better than rubber johnny at least. I haven't heard Max Tundra. but also to me sounds like if it's imitating anything it would be the HAB ep's.. it's got that abstract chopped up beats sound, with eerie simple waveform melodies, as opposed to more traditional drumsounds and (heh) breaks used by Tom J, Mike P. etc (also the thicker sounds)
quoted 2 lines -Mealtime (Planet Mu)>-Mealtime (Planet Mu) >Yuk, the worst drill n bass release yet. Aside from an interesting new
For damn sure.. I listened to the Jega track and wondered "what the hell is all the hype about".. maybe some of you could point me in a better direction as to hearing what jega (and the other artists on there) are about.
quoted 2 lines i think i'm gonna sit down and write a book on the (brief) history of>i think i'm gonna sit down and write a book on the (brief) history of >drill n bass ;-)
I'll help.. It seems so strange though... one article in details magazine about the different styles of "electronica" had spun off this huge thing. and ironically all of us adapted to the new term, when usually we laugh and take a piss at the articles about "electronica" written in the mainstream press. (I should say far-more-than-mainstream press.. as details is a highly "hipster" mag with the latest shoes, clothes, clubs, sex and music :) (and I admit I used to subscribe it when I was 15) but I will say it did have some nice articles, and Anka (for all of you who know) will always rule :DD __ __\ \ / /_\ \ 1cQ<->uIN \_____/ 1.3777993 "..in whatever you do, if you can't break new ground, what's the point?" - James Cameron
1998-07-09 11:43Nate Harrison \[Toshok Laboratories\]I don't understand this 'drill n bass' is played out attitude. I think I understand what y
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Nate Harrison \[Toshok Laboratories\]
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GamePrg.
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mult santa , IDM
Date:
Thu, 9 Jul 1998 11:43:47 +0000 ()
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Re: (idm) it takes the physical....
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Re: (idm) it takes the physical....
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I don't understand this 'drill n bass' is played out attitude. I think I understand what you all mean by that, ie it seems everyone wants to jump on the bandwagon and make over complex drums programming for the sake of it, but does that mean it's played out? It can't still be good (I mean if you are into that type of sound)? I don't mean to sound like I'm a big drillnbasser, sure I like tweaked breaks as much as the next guy, but hey I also love ambient grooves, I LOVE Detroit (hey I'm from Michigan), etc. I'm just saying is there anything wrong with new 'genres' being created? I mean one could say (4ttf) 'techno' was a genre created many years ago, but I still don't consider it played out. There's a lot of boring crap, and some amazing stuff always coming out. So drillnbass as a genre (and let's not get into the 'labeling things' thread again) was created. So what. Maybe you could even say Tom J is the father of said genre much the same way peoeple proclaim Juan Atkins the father of Detroit. So what. That's how styles evolve. Someone creates a new sound and some poeple latch onto it, some better than others. Theres is always going to be 'the first people' that creat a particular sound, and the people that follow their lead. Actually this is true of all types of art. I've been thinking a lot about this since I bought the new Jega full length. I like it cuz it's fun, but I could very easily say it's just a big Mike Paradinas rip off. Which is interesting, because some people on this list say Mike P. is jusy a big Tom J. rip off (newer material) or AFX ripoff (older material). I think you could carry this on ad nauseum, saying Tom J is a jazz fusion wannabe, and AFX is a Phillip Glass rip off. *But to me none of this matters*. I like the music. This is not some race to find the ultimate song people. It's just a bunch of geeky kids who like to fuck around with synths and samplers. I think it's easy to claim something as tired or played out (I find myself doing it), because IDM/electronic music is very much about music *that is now*. Sometimes gems come long that stand the test of time, somehow they appeal to some more universal sensilbilty. However I'm hesitant to call drillnbass played out. It's just another step in the infinite trek. So you like it. Cool. Maybe you're not into it anymore, cool too. Maybe you like Samba music. Hey cool. back to work, Nate
1998-07-08 21:36danielAll this talk that music must be complicated to have some artistic merit smacks of intelle
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daniel
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Wed, 8 Jul 1998 16:36:18 -0500 (CDT)
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Re: (idm) it takes the physical....
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All this talk that music must be complicated to have some artistic merit smacks of intellectual snobbery. It isn't the complicated programming <or playing for that matter> which makes a song good. It is the artistic vision and the imagination. There are many people who can play an instrument flawlessly but cannot write a song to save their life. They lack the vision; their hands can do the work but it does not matter. Then there are composers who visualize great works and use orchestras <or even samplers!> to make the sound reality. Does that make them any less an artist? Is there work now worthless? Is someone who can play an instrument <but not compose> better than this artist? If your in awe of programming ability instead of listening to the music then you should trainspot software instead. FYI: want to see the amen break twisted and distorted into something new? check out lesser: welcome to the american experience. -daniel
1998-07-09 03:52Upaka@aol.comIn a message dated 7/8/98 11:02:19 PM, you wrote: >For damn sure.. I listened to the Jega
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,
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Re: (idm) it takes the physical....
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In a message dated 7/8/98 11:02:19 PM, you wrote:
quoted 3 lines For damn sure.. I listened to the Jega track and wondered "what the hell is>For damn sure.. I listened to the Jega track and wondered "what the hell is >all the hype about".. maybe some of you could point me in a better direction >as to hearing what jega (and the other artists on there) are about.
Try the Jega ep on Skam (Skam 009). It's much better than his earlier tracks on Skampler and Mealtime. Dark melodic electro and some drum and bass influenced material. Of course, I'm rather biased towards any release with an electro remix of the theme from Miyazaki's film 'Nausicaa'. His full length album looks rather promising too. It's out soon (if not already) on Planet Mu. -David
1998-07-09 08:39WARD Giles> I think it was something nice, but it should have never been > "overused" > > the way th
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WARD Giles
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'idm@hyperreal.org'
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Thu, 9 Jul 1998 09:39:42 +0100
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RE: (idm) it takes the physical....
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quoted 11 lines I think it was something nice, but it should have never been> I think it was something nice, but it should have never been > "overused" > > the way that it has been. something new must replace it, and I think > BoC did > it nicely with Music Has The Right To Children, and also UZ-IZ, ctd > (little > lord faulteroy mix), and flim on come to daddy did it as well quite > nicely.. > >
Hmm.. IMO BoC are very accomplished but nothing amazingly new or different. AFX on the other hand nearly always pulls off a new technique in every track. BoC are like a marginally updated version of 1994. I like them, but I reckon if they start a BoC type genre we'll be going backwards. One is enough! Don't do it kids!
1998-07-09 12:08siliconvortexOn Thu, 9 Jul 1998 09:39:42 +0100 , you wrote: >BoC are like a marginally updated version
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Thu, 09 Jul 1998 12:08:31 GMT
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Re: (idm) it takes the physical....
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RE: (idm) it takes the physical....
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On Thu, 9 Jul 1998 09:39:42 +0100 , you wrote:
quoted 3 lines BoC are like a marginally updated version of>BoC are like a marginally updated version of >1994. I like them, but I reckon if they start a BoC type genre we'll be >going backwards. One is enough! Don't do it kids!
backwards is good, forwards is good.. anything but sideways! if someone can't get with a piece of music just because it's 'old' sounding, i think that's pretty sad. 'techno' has its bad points as well as good. i'd rather hear a message than the latest sequencing technique. <waves> everyone, buy the new gescom ep...
1998-07-09 20:05GamePrg.On Thursday, 09-Jul-98, WARD Giles wrote [about RE: (idm) it takes the physical....]: >Hmm
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GamePrg.
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IDM
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Thu, 09 Jul 1998 20:05:44 EST4EDT
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RE: (idm) it takes the physical....
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RE: (idm) it takes the physical....
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On Thursday, 09-Jul-98, WARD Giles wrote [about RE: (idm) it takes the physical....]:
quoted 5 lines Hmm.. IMO BoC are very accomplished but nothing amazingly new or>Hmm.. IMO BoC are very accomplished but nothing amazingly new or >different. AFX on the other hand nearly always pulls off a new >technique in every track. BoC are like a marginally updated version of >1994. I like them, but I reckon if they start a BoC type genre we'll be >going backwards. One is enough! Don't do it kids!
well of course.. One is enough is what I mean. BoC seem to be doing some fabulous triphop that is also melodic and just plain gorgeous.. I *LOVE* Aquarius. It's like what Panasonic makes.. You don't see everybody and his brother making Panasonic style music.. I love Panasonic, but I think if other people started making a Panasonic type genre it would get old/lame real fast. I mean, people should make the music they feel like making, but I mean, you can't deny that a lot these drill'n'bass ppl are jumping on a bandwagon, even if sub-conciously. __ __\ \ / /_\ \ 1cQ<->uIN \_____/ 1.3777993 "..in whatever you do, if you can't break new ground, what's the point?" - James Cameron
1998-07-09 23:54mallenOn Thu, 9 Jul 1998, GamePrg. wrote: > I mean, people should make the music they feel like
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mallen
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GamePrg.
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IDM
Date:
Thu, 9 Jul 1998 16:54:21 -0700 (PDT)
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RE: (idm) it takes the physical....
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RE: (idm) it takes the physical....
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On Thu, 9 Jul 1998, GamePrg. wrote:
quoted 3 lines I mean, people should make the music they feel like making, but I mean, you> I mean, people should make the music they feel like making, but I mean, you > can't deny that a lot these drill'n'bass ppl are jumping on a bandwagon, even > if sub-conciously.
This is an eternally inherent problem in any type of art form. When you create something you basically are a filter for the experiences that you have seen/felt/tasted/heard/whatever. You cannot make art in a vacuum ... everything you do has some relevance to what you have been subjected to. When i sit down and work on a piece (whether art or music) i have specific ideas of where i want that piece to go ... and somewhere down inside those ideas are based on a track that i really like or a drawing that struck the right chord with me ... Yes alot of what gets done come from experimenting within the medium .. but even an experiment has to evolve from something ... now its how you mix and match these various experiences that create something that many people would consider 'new' ... remember originality is how well you mask your influences ... m.
1998-07-09 15:54WARD Giles> >BoC are like a marginally updated version of > >1994. I like them, but I reckon if they
From:
WARD Giles
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Date:
Thu, 9 Jul 1998 16:54:41 +0100
Subject:
RE: (idm) it takes the physical....
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quoted 10 lines BoC are like a marginally updated version of> >BoC are like a marginally updated version of > >1994. I like them, but I reckon if they start a BoC type genre we'll > be > >going backwards. One is enough! Don't do it kids! > > backwards is good, forwards is good.. anything but sideways! > > if someone can't get with a piece of music just because it's 'old' > sounding, i think that's pretty sad. >
Hmmm.. Lenny Kravitz, Oasis, Kula Shaker etc. are 'old' sounding. I just think it's a bit early for a full-on 94 revival. Likewise some of the dodgy 80's stuff could be left well alone. Giles
1998-07-09 22:24rob joanisse> > just a few things about this thread.... there have been a few records lately-ish that
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rob joanisse
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Date:
Thu, 09 Jul 1998 18:24:41 -0400
Subject:
Re: (idm) it takes the physical....
permalink · <35A54329.2FDD@ns.sympatico.ca>
quoted 2 lines> >
just a few things about this thread.... there have been a few records lately-ish that use the amen in innovative wayz: acid track by dilinja and that cut "jade" by hokusai come to mind and are quite excellent. there are a few older cuts by boymerang, jmajik & leon mar that take it farther than anything i've heard. shit, goldie even used it on saturn one of the reasons the amen is so popular is that, played out or not, it really does blow away just about every other break in terms of power and all-around funkiness. it's also one of the few breaks that requires no timestretching - you just pitch it up a third and you are rolling. (if you want to fuck about it, it's also very easy to edit compared to other classic breaks) remember that amen and apache and the bells go back to old school hip hop (straight out of compton, wheels of steel...), and i don't think drum and bass could really play them out completely. there will always be room for innovation (i'm listening to acid trak right now and it's pretty wicked in 1998) which reminds me, could the previous poster who mentioned 3rd bass post which song uses it? words of wisdom? damn, when was that '88? feeling somewhat oldish, r.j
1998-07-09 18:36Nate Harrison \[Toshok Laboratories\]you wrote: which reminds me, could the previous poster who mentioned 3rd bass post which s
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Nate Harrison \[Toshok Laboratories\]
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rob joanisse
Cc:
Date:
Thu, 9 Jul 1998 18:36:33 +0000 ()
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Re: (idm) it takes the physical....
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you wrote: which reminds me, could the previous poster who mentioned 3rd bass post which song uses it? words of wisdom? damn, when was that '88? I write: yes sir. I think it was 88-89 or even 90. I have the 12" around somewhere... It's funny I have a friend who knows nothing about dnb, nothing about samplers, dislikes uptmep techno/jungle (still has sounds of chipmunks in his head), but who listened to 3rd Bass in high school with me. So I play him the amen, dnb tempo, I ask him'do you recognize this' he says no, I play a note further down the keyboard, then he's like 'damn dude, that's wordz of wizdom!' pace Nate
1998-07-12 16:49Ben CofferIn message <35A54329.2FDD@ns.sympatico.ca>, rob joanisse <albatross@ns.sympatico.ca> write
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Ben Coffer
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Sun, 12 Jul 1998 17:49:17 +0100
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Re: (idm) it takes the physical....
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Re: (idm) it takes the physical....
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In message <35A54329.2FDD@ns.sympatico.ca>, rob joanisse <albatross@ns.sympatico.ca> writes
quoted 2 lines which reminds me, could the previous poster who mentioned 3rd bass post>which reminds me, could the previous poster who mentioned 3rd bass post >which song uses it? words of wisdom? damn, when was that '88?
Hmm...even Public Enemy used the amen break, in It Takes a Nation of Millions... -- Ben Coffer http://www.hybridgame.demon.co.uk/