IDM Mailing Archive

Robert Merlak writes:

quoted 3 lines You sound like my friends, who keep telling me that I should go to see the

> You sound like my friends, who keep telling me that I should go to see the > Rolling Stones live in Zagreb (capitol of Croatia). They've told me almost > the same thing you said here ... amazing, great show, once in a lifetime,

The difference is that The Stones are irrelevant and haven't put out a decent record since Brian Jones learned he couldn't backstroke. (-: They trundle out horrific versions of what was even good stuff (I've seen plenty of video tapes of them through the years, including a show from the Voodoo Lounge tour that was on PBS just 2 months ago), and their new stuff is completely forgettable. This is not the case with Kraftwerk. Their "old stuff" is timeless and sounds completely up to date, as far as I'm concerned. While one of their "new songs" isn't necessarily on the same par as the other material, the extension to "Airwaves" was as great as anything I've heard lately. It's getting a bit tiresome to see (here and on other lists I'm on) all these "Classic Rock" putdowns and other such comparisons. This is Kraftwerk we're talking about, for fuck's sake.

quoted 1 line I wouldn't go to Kraftwerk if they are playing in my city...

> I wouldn't go to Kraftwerk if they are playing in my city...

Your loss, really. You'll listen to Dad's old records but you won't go see the people who helped spawn the ones you bought which came out yesterday ...

quoted 2 lines I don't want to give my money for stunning show and a stunning production,

> I don't want to give my money for stunning show and a stunning production, > because I don't care about it.

That's sad, because there's something to be said for seeing the results of the work of very talented people that have put something extremely creative together and which you don't see the likes of very often. After a while even I get tired of Yet Another Rave with a single lazer, a few Intellibeams and a couple of hand-painted day-glo posters, y'know?

quoted 3 lines My interest is Techno as

> My interest is Techno as > I said and I can listen to Techno in my nice quiet room, in a comfortable > chair, without looking at a bunch of idiots whistling and shouting...

So you've never been to a rave then either? This is getting really depressing. People denying themselves great experiences because of preconceived notions, rather than the reality. Let me put it another way: have you heard *anyone* who saw Kraftwerk in San Francisco or Los Angeles say it was shite? Or anything else other than amazing/wonderful? Are we *all* really that wrong, on Crack or out of touch? I think not ... (Then again, I remember seeing slaggings of their Tribal Gathering performance. But then I guess we're just stupid Americans, blinded by our rabid idolatry.) - Greg P.S. I'm not going to bother arguing with Stuart/Silicon about this. He seems to have that 20-something "Kill Yr. Idols" mentality and has a lot of problems with the notion of Kraftwerk As Myth that I simply do not share, so there's little point in a point-by-point refutation of his arguments. He can sit and kvetch about the media fuelling the myth while I deal with them as a *real entity* that I just saw in the flesh about 36 hours ago. (Though I must say that anyone who thinks Karl Bartos was "taking a crack at something new" by releasing Electrik Music's "Kraftwerk Lite" album - or that generic 4-on-the-floor track on T.E.Ex. 1 - has a mighty strange definition of "new".)

On Wed, 10 Jun 1998, Greg Earle wrote:

quoted 6 lines Robert Merlak writes:

> Robert Merlak writes: > > My interest is Techno as > > I said and I can listen to Techno in my nice quiet room, in a comfortable > > chair, without looking at a bunch of idiots whistling and shouting... > > So you've never been to a rave then either?

To not see techno, in the hands of a gifted DJ, with a crowd who is up for it, is to entirely miss the point. For me, seeing Traxx go off, or even my friend DJ Alert, who can infuse their sets with real personality and emotion, is and will be a peak experience. And Ferenc in full effect? Omigawd! It makes standing around, bored silly by the latest wack house DJ worth it. As for Kraftwerk, I've no doubt that anyone who sees one of their shows with a positive mindset is going to have the time of their lives. The Rolling Stones have been in it strictly for the money for 20 years. Their last good record was "Some Girls" and that came out late 70s. Kraftwerk may be doing the same thing 20 years on, but their music is by their own admission an industrial product, and they've gotten their manufacturing process down to sub-micron tolerances. That perhaps deserves a different sort of attention and appreciation than someone trying to push the state of the art, but it still deserves massive respect.

On Wed, Jun 10, 1998 at 09:32:30AM -0500, Chaircrusher wrote:

quoted 8 lines My interest is Techno as I said and I can listen to Techno in my nice

>>> My interest is Techno as I said and I can listen to Techno in my nice >>> quiet room, in a comfortable chair, without looking at a bunch of >>> idiots whistling and shouting... >> >> So you've never been to a rave then either? > > To not see techno, in the hands of a gifted DJ, with a crowd who is up > for it, is to entirely miss the point.

Where do I go to buy the Techno/Rave Bible so I can quote it chapter and verse like you do? God forbid anyone find a way to enjoy the music that differs from how you enjoy it, hm? -- ::: Lazlo (lazlo@swcp.com; http://www.swcp.com/lazlo) ::: Internet Music Wantlists: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo/Wantlists

quoted 2 lines My interest is Techno as

> > > My interest is Techno as > > > I said and I can listen to Techno in my nice quiet room

quoted 2 lines To not see techno, in the hands of a gifted DJ, with a crowd who is up for

> To not see techno, in the hands of a gifted DJ, with a crowd who is up for > it, is to entirely miss the point.

come on kent, you know this is ultra narrow-minded. i enjoy going out to music and staying in with music and there will always be a valid reason for both. and the music doesn't have to be different for either situation. let's face it, most club pa systems are shit, most djs are up their own arse, and most of the people around you are annoying. usually, when i'm at home, i'm itching to get out and go somewhere, and when i'm out, i can't wait to get back home to have a simple cup of tea and something i /really/ like playing.

quoted 3 lines Kraftwerk may be doing the same thing 20 years on, but their music is by

> Kraftwerk may be doing the same thing 20 years on, but their music is by > their own admission an industrial product, and they've gotten their > manufacturing process down to sub-micron tolerances.

and this is where their ideology clashes with (most of) the fans! who on this list is going to be brave enough to admit preferring the 'perfected' versions of their tracks to the original releases? when they eliminated every piece of grit, every millisecond-imperfect edit and every last trace of hiss, something was lost, it suddenly lost all its romance and inspirational quality. though this is mostly down to the choice of equipment they have these days. i mean, a raveolution? things are looking bad! get back to the tinfoil drum pads!

quoted 1 line That perhaps deserves a different sort of attention and appreciation than

> That perhaps deserves a different sort of attention and appreciation than

someone

quoted 1 line trying to push the state of the art, but it still deserves massive

> trying to push the state of the art, but it still deserves massive

respect. well, this is a difficult one. problem is, their industrial products are beginning to look a little dated. the things they say are becoming irrelevant.

quoted 4 lines (Though I must say that anyone who thinks Karl Bartos was "taking a crack

>(Though I must say that anyone who thinks Karl Bartos was "taking a crack >at something new" by releasing Electrik Music's "Kraftwerk Lite" album - >or that generic 4-on-the-floor track on T.E.Ex. 1 - has a mighty strange >definition of "new".)

well i just meant 'new material', not new ideas. though it's hardly fair to compare new live K material with elektric music's album, when/if the next K album is out, who's to say that it will be any better than bartos' effort? there's every reason to say it will be even worse!!! and just to add - kraftwerk have never been my idols.. Ken Downie, Andy Turner and Ed Handley are! <waves>

On Wed, 10 Jun 1998, siliconvortex wrote:

quoted 7 lines My interest is Techno as

> > > > My interest is Techno as > > > > I said and I can listen to Techno in my nice quiet room > > > To not see techno, in the hands of a gifted DJ, with a crowd who is up for > > it, is to entirely miss the point. > > come on kent, you know this is ultra narrow-minded.

Moi? Narrow minded? Nah. Strong opinions? Sure!

quoted 2 lines let's face it, most club pa systems are shit, most djs are up their own

> let's face it, most club pa systems are shit, most djs are up their own > arse, and most of the people around you are annoying.

I guess I'm lucky enough to go to better clubs than you do. I thought Iowa City was a backwater, but apparently not. Or perhaps BECAUSE it's a backwater, the people DJ'ing and clubbing are up for it and appreciate it. It is different than Chicago -- not enough going on here to get jaded about it.

quoted 8 lines That perhaps deserves a different sort of attention and appreciation

> > That perhaps deserves a different sort of attention and appreciation > > than someone trying to push the state of the art, but it still deserves > > massive respect. > > well, this is a difficult one. problem is, their industrial products are > beginning to look a little dated. the things they say are becoming > irrelevant. >

Whatever. Is Bach irrelevant? He hasn't done anything new for over 200 years! I think he's lost his touch. Feel free to have your own opinions but don't get on my jock for disagreeing.

Greg Earle wrote:

quoted 3 lines The difference is that The Stones are irrelevant and haven't put out a decent

> > The difference is that The Stones are irrelevant and haven't put out a decent > record since Brian Jones learned he couldn't backstroke.

uhm -- Let It Bleed? Sticky Fingers? Exile On Main Street? Hello? jeff