IDM Mailing Archive

I'm finding it interesting lately how people divide themselves into 'tribes' with music, interesting and difficult to understand. Case in point: I was reading some posts in a Skinny Puppy mailing list yesterday and how most people are pissed off with the 'apparent' new direction of Download with the 'III' album.How they were very dissappointed that cEvin Key 'apparently' didn't have much to do with the album and that it sounded like repetetive techno(which some of it does sure).Or that maybe cEvin had run out of ideas!Now I love this album it's not really techno(in the classic sense) but it does has some 'techno' sensiblities.But anyway the general consensus seemed to be that someone who changes there 'tribe' has run out of ideas or is 'selling-out'..now the fact of the matter is cEvin and co. have changed tribes several times. From straight-up noise to dub to pop to 'industrial' and now some techno.I find this refreshing and to the contrary of running out of ideas.Just like Richard H. Kirk has gone through many many many styles and guises...has he run out of ideas?I don't think so(although he does like to ride certain waves for a long time like the almost interchangable Sandoz/electronic eye/sweet excorcist). Maybe it's because these certain people are young and trying to find/cling to something that they identify with.... it's confusing to think that people won't allow others to change or grow..hell I wonder what the consesus was on the latest Tear Garden album which had (god forbid) slide guitar and country elements to it and hardly any 'electronic' elements (which to me seems a reaction to D.r. Goettles(sp?) death).... I guess I find myself at odds with the 'hard-core' fan of any one certain genre of music..I love it when boundaries are crossed and blurred and mixed up....granted that sometimes I don't like a certain change in a band but I don't go saying 'they've run out of ideas' they've mearly changed focus something for some reason doesn't jive with me any more.... am I completely off base with this? What if Autechre put out a 'happy hard-core' album or introduced guitars(I know it's hypothetical and they'd do it in their own unique way but still) would alot of people be upset? It just makes me mad to think of the restrictions people put on themselves and others and how unwilling they are to expand thier horizons.. I'm tired of these divisions being made for no reason ie.industrial vs. techno 'funky vs. 4/4 (hello Skinny Puppy has been 'funky' from the beginning!) food for thought, hope it made sense sorry if it was too long or way off topic(but this is a music list and I'm interested in other people ideas on the subject) spaul

quoted 3 lines I'm finding it interesting lately how people divide themselves into

> I'm finding it interesting lately how people divide themselves into > 'tribes' with music, interesting and difficult to understand. > Case in point: I was reading some posts in a Skinny Puppy mailing list

Ah, a veritable hotbed of open-minded people ...

quoted 4 lines yesterday and how most people are pissed off with the 'apparent' new

> yesterday and how most people are pissed off with the 'apparent' new > direction of Download with the 'III' album. How they were very > dissappointed that cEvin Key 'apparently' didn't have much to do with > the album and that it sounded like repetative Techno (which some of it

Kenny and Dwayne should have ditched Ogre and gone Techno 6 years ago, IMHO, after finishing "Last Rites" ... if Kenny had had Dwayne's mindset, it would have happened ... instead it was Battle of The Titans and Kenny resisted for far too long. (Heaven knows I tried ... heck, Franz Teichler of Young Gods was playing "On" in the Malibu studio where they recorded their last album and it still didn't help)

quoted 5 lines does sure). Or that maybe cEvin had run out of ideas! Now I love this

> does sure). Or that maybe cEvin had run out of ideas! Now I love this > album it's not really Techno (in the classic sense) but it does has some > 'Techno' sensiblities. But anyway the general consensus seemed to be that > someone who changes their 'tribe' has run out of ideas or is > 'selling-out' ...

Well, the trouble is that certain people/groups get identified with something strongly, and if they make a reasonably big stylistic change well after the genre they're moving towards is well-established, it looks like they're just Johnny-come-lately bandwagon jumpers ... let's face it, "Skinny Puppy" is as strongly associated with "Industrial" music as any brand name going. It was a creative straightjacket and Dwayne felt that more than anyone. That's why his own urges were forced to be done under his own name (Duck) with his and Phil's own funds (i.e., starting the Sub-Conscious label) back in '93 ... As for RHK I agree, I've found the best thing to do is simply unmap the artist when they're in an area you're not interested in (recent Tear Garden, Cabs post-"Code" for me for example) and re-map when they are (Cabs circa "Plasticity" and "International Language"/Kirk "Virtual State"). Works fer me. - Greg

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: (idm) music tribes:some thoughts (kind of off topic) Author: Simon Paul <spaul@radical.ca> at AWT_INTERNET_PO Date: 10/29/97 11:41 AM I'm finding it interesting lately how people divide themselves into 'tribes' with music, i know exactly what you mean. here is my take on the whole thing. we, those who cross the music appreciation boundaries, are the music elite. we can fully appreciate every aspect of music, whether we're listening to jazz, blues, industrial, idm, ambient, noise etc.... there is an essence which we can tap into. we may not like everything, but can appreciate aspects of various musical genres. we're interested in the evolution of music, the creation of music, how music interacts with our souls and society. i've mentioned this before, i believe but here it goes again. i studied jazz guitar, and was taught by a berklee grad pursuing his masters in jazz composition. the guy could play. he could break a song down, and transpose it from his ears to his fingers w/out a problem. only thing is, he was limited by his music appreciation. he only liked swing/bebop era jazz. nothing else would even be considered decent music, no matter what it was. how much can he grow as a musician? he certainly has set boundaries for himself. he absorbed his knowledge from 1 style of music, now if he had an open mind towards other styles of music (electronic, fusion, avant-garde?) who knows what he would be able to do, or how much he could learn. fucking shame since he has so much talent. that is why i feel those that pigeon-hole themselves into a 'tribe' are limited in some way. intellectual? emotional? spiritual? who knows.