IDM Mailing Archive

quoted 3 lines Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 12:38:02 -0400

>Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 12:38:02 -0400 >From: Jim Bernard <jim_bernard@korgusa.com> >Subject: (idm) Roni Size Reprazent...New Forms... a piece of shite!

quoted 1 line Just picked up this CD (after having it recommended by many people) and I am thoroughly un

>Just picked up this CD (after having it recommended by many people) and I am thoroughly un-impressed!

Like a lot of people then...

quoted 1 line This 2CD album sounds like a bunch of throwaway tracks...

> This 2CD album sounds like a bunch of throwaway tracks...

Not all of it is throwaway, but I agree, plenty of it is well below par, especially for someone with as good as track record (groan) as Mr Size.

quoted 1 line basically it sucks!

> basically it sucks!

I was dissapointed too, after owning nearly the entire V/Full Cycle/Dope Dragon back catalogue, but I wouldn't go this far. I think peseverance is rewarding with this album. I made an effort because I know Roni and the Reprazent lot are extremely talented, and there are a lot of excellent tracks on here (mainly Brown Paper Bag, Morse Code, Hi Potent, Jazz, Change My Life, Share The Fall, Down & Trust Me) but it is far too long for no good reason.

quoted 1 line The drum programming is passable in spots (though not many...Roni doesn't like to fre

> The drum programming is passable in spots (though not many...Roni doesn't like to freak the beats too much, > does he?)

I don't think that's what this album is about. This is aimed more at home listening than club rotation (this is no excuse, I know) and so is fairly chilled out. Check some of his Dope Dragon stuff as Mask if you want beat-freaking, particularly Square Off and Better World.

quoted 1 line but the MUSIC (if you want to call it that) is just plain hideous...and those vocals....

>but the MUSIC (if you want to call it that) is just plain hideous...and those vocals....

I think the vocals are fine on the whole. They're nothing new, but I think they work better than any vocals I've heard in drum and bass so far. Perhaps Heroes is a little too near cod-soul, but Share The Fall is just fine.

quoted 1 line Jesus, if this is best Drum n Bass CD of the year then I must be missing something...

>Jesus, if this is best Drum n Bass CD of the year then I must be missing something...

Sadly, it probably is, at least as far as artist albums are concerned (haven't heard Photek's yet)... What you're 'missing' is background to the mans work. He has done much much much better than this, in many varied and different styles of jungle and IMO has single handled kept music alive for me for quite a while now.

quoted 1 line "New Forms" is without a doubt THE WORST PIECE OF SHIT CD I HAVE HEARD.... EVER!

>"New Forms" is without a doubt THE WORST PIECE OF SHIT CD I HAVE HEARD.... EVER!

That's a bit harsh. I think it's a valliant attempt at crossing different stlyes of drum and bass and feeding it to a wider audience. It is a major label LP after all, and it should be treated as such... Gb.

lwtcdi writes:

quoted 2 lines Sadly, it probably is, at least as far as artist albums are concerned

> Sadly, it probably is, at least as far as artist albums are concerned > (haven't heard Photek's yet)...

d'n'b album of the year for me so far has to be "torque", the no-u-turn compilation. it's only 3 guys so it sorta qualifies as a single artist thing. and despite the fact that it's "just" a collection of 12" singles, it still keeps me interested for the entire running length. -- Jon Drukman jsd@gamespot.com SpotMedia Communications ...I was an infinitely hot and dense dot...

On Tue, 14 Oct 1997, Random Junk wrote:

quoted 9 lines lwtcdi writes:

> lwtcdi writes: > > Sadly, it probably is, at least as far as artist albums are concerned > > (haven't heard Photek's yet)... > > d'n'b album of the year for me so far has to be "torque", the > no-u-turn compilation. it's only 3 guys so it sorta qualifies as a > single artist thing. and despite the fact that it's "just" a > collection of 12" singles, it still keeps me interested for the entire > running length.

another great 1997 d&b release is the aphrodite compilation. it's actually not a compilation, just aphrodite in his various guises. every track is very funky jump-up style jungle. a great fun album. beats the lame noodling along of newforms and the like anytime. and why should lunatic harness not qualify as d&b? ("d" standing for drum.) cheers, --tom

At 14:20 14/10/97 -0700, Random Junk wrote:

quoted 9 lines lwtcdi writes:

>lwtcdi writes: >> Sadly, it probably is, at least as far as artist albums are concerned >> (haven't heard Photek's yet)... > >d'n'b album of the year for me so far has to be "torque", the >no-u-turn compilation. it's only 3 guys so it sorta qualifies as a >single artist thing. and despite the fact that it's "just" a >collection of 12" singles, it still keeps me interested for the entire >running length.

Agreed. So what if it's all in much the same style, it's a fucking awesome style, brilliantly executed. I can see how the old two step beats/big bastard bass sound could get tiresome, but I've not got sick of it yet. The way Mr Sutton treated the sample on the Technology remix.... wicked. Jon

At 14:20 14/10/97 -0700, Random Junk wrote:

quoted 9 lines lwtcdi writes:

>lwtcdi writes: >> Sadly, it probably is, at least as far as artist albums are concerned >> (haven't heard Photek's yet)... > >d'n'b album of the year for me so far has to be "torque", the >no-u-turn compilation. it's only 3 guys so it sorta qualifies as a >single artist thing. and despite the fact that it's "just" a >collection of 12" singles, it still keeps me interested for the entire >running length.

Agreed. So what if it's all in much the same style, it's a fucking awesome style, brilliantly executed. I can see how the old two step beats/big bastard bass sound could get tiresome, but I've not got sick of it yet. The way Mr Sutton treated the sample on the Technology remix.... wicked. Jon - Jon Green zcapn33@ucl.ac.uk They're back: "F**k the Millenium" see http://www.2k.org.uk

On Tue, 14 Oct 1997, Random Junk wrote:

quoted 9 lines lwtcdi writes:

> lwtcdi writes: > > Sadly, it probably is, at least as far as artist albums are concerned > > (haven't heard Photek's yet)... > > d'n'b album of the year for me so far has to be "torque", the > no-u-turn compilation. it's only 3 guys so it sorta qualifies as a > single artist thing. and despite the fact that it's "just" a > collection of 12" singles, it still keeps me interested for the entire > running length.

Yes, and also despite the fact that the 2nd "megamix" CD sounds like one very long track. The material's more than a bit homogenous, and it still remains interesting. The basic building blocks are few and pretty simple: quick, shuffling beats, and big 3-note basslines. While I don't personally find it very harsh or over-the-top, others certainly will. For something more varied and complex, you might want to scan through the Photek full-length at your nearest shop with a listening station. Once Source Direct have a compilation out, do check into them too. For those not in the UK/Europe, their singles aren't exactly easy to get (even the ones on Science/Virgin, I end up with unit 1 of 1 at the local shop, and don't see restocks.) I've liked all the tracks I've heard, at various points between jungle and techstep (whatever those terms are supposed to mean, anyway). I'd dare say a comp of their best tracks would top Photek's album as well as _Torque_ (NoUTurn). --Mark __ <http://www.xnet.com/~mkolmar/BurningRome> < MPEG & RA audio clips > Forthcoming CD SENSELESS on Mindfield Records MINDCD03 Cathartium 14 m u s i c : w e b : s o u n d d e s i g n : h t m l : c g i : e t c

quoted 3 lines From: Random Junk <jsd@gamespot.com>

> From: Random Junk <jsd@gamespot.com> > To: idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: Re: (idm) New Forms

quoted 6 lines d'n'b album of the year for me so far has to be "torque", the

> d'n'b album of the year for me so far has to be "torque", the > no-u-turn compilation. it's only 3 guys so it sorta qualifies as a > single artist thing. and despite the fact that it's "just" a > collection of 12" singles, it still keeps me interested for the entire > running length. >

Well, i'm not sure if its this year(i think it is), but the best drum 'n bass i've heard almost EVER is the cd i picked up today...blew me away from the first track on...Amon Tobin's "Bricolage". Better than squarepusher(who was d'nb king in my mind until now!). Ali "It means we'll manage I'll master your language And in the meantime I'll create my own" (Tricky)

Random Junk wrote:

quoted 5 lines d'n'b album of the year for me so far has to be "torque", the

> d'n'b album of the year for me so far has to be "torque", the > no-u-turn compilation. it's only 3 guys so it sorta qualifies as a > single artist thing. and despite the fact that it's "just" a > collection of 12" singles, it still keeps me interested for the entire > running length.

Yep, One of my favs too. Not to correct you, but it's really 4 guys (nico, trace, ed rush & fierce) + a boymerang remix (if you count the mix cd). But it really is a single artist thing, because nico produced and engineered all tracks (except for the remix). It does hold up. Other jungle 12" comps I've been liking a lot lately are: Suspect Package - Hard Leaders Way Out Chapter - Hard Leaders Prototype Years - Metalheads Breakage vol 1 - Penny Black Formation box set - Formation Still smoking - Ganga and I'm still waiting for the 'colors' comp on formation (should be at home by the time I get there!) All these were released on both CD and 12" format, so I can rock out at work too! peace out, brock ps: One to watch for is Optical...his latest stuff is the shit! np: Mad Professor - 'dub maniacs on the rampage'

quoted 10 lines d'n'b album of the year for me so far has to be "torque", the

> > d'n'b album of the year for me so far has to be "torque", the > > no-u-turn compilation. it's only 3 guys so it sorta qualifies as a > > single artist thing. and despite the fact that it's "just" a > > collection of 12" singles, it still keeps me interested for the entire > > running length. > > > Well, i'm not sure if its this year(i think it is), but the best drum > 'n bass i've heard almost EVER is the cd i picked up today...blew me > away from the first track on...Amon Tobin's "Bricolage". Better than > squarepusher(who was d'nb king in my mind until now!).

Amon Tobin "Bricolage" is very good, I've sold away my copy, because I don't like CDs that are very good, I like exellent ones. And I must say that you cannot even compare Amon and Square, Amon is DnB and Square is techno. And we all know that DnB is form of techno, and Square is king of TECHNO.... In my opinion Amon sounds to rock'n'roll for me , like some kinda bend, and I am tired of that kind of production and soundcare. Square manipulates with sound like not many musicians on the current techno scene............ I've been recently (27.9.1997.) in Graz to see RePHLeX crew playing live (global goon, d'arcangelo, dmx krew, cylob) and djing (squarepusher, kosmik kommando, maf, k rock) Square didn't play a single track that you may say it's DnB. He played a lot of older hardcore stuff (Ongaku, Lenny Dee) and many of hard and banging acidicid stuff), he played some old school breakbeat (SL2, ....) on the end. So you see, he played party music. He is not influenced by jazz and I cannot even sy this : ROCK. His main influences are early breakbeat and banging stuff, and of course things like TroubleFunk, PE,...,fists in the air / happpy party atmosphere ! respect Rob

On 15 Oct 97, robert.merlak@ri.tel.hr wrote: Re: (idm) New Forms:

quoted 1 line And I must say that you cannot even compare Amon and Square,

> And I must say that you cannot even compare Amon and Square,

Agreed. Why compare?

quoted 1 line Amon is DnB and Square is techno.

> Amon is DnB and Square is techno.

Huh? To my ears, Amon Tobin's "Bricolage" is far more influenced by *jazz* than d'nb. But I haven't heard anything else by Amon Tobin to make any further judgement. Anybody?? I *

quoted 5 lines Huh? To my ears, Amon Tobin's "Bricolage" is far more influenced by

>Huh? To my ears, Amon Tobin's "Bricolage" is far more influenced by >*jazz* than d'nb. But I haven't heard anything else by Amon Tobin to >make any further judgement. > >Anybody??

Whatever.......Amon Tobin and some N Stealth *Bombers* just played here in New Zealand. It's hoped more interesting international sonic purveyors keep coming this way...I'm sure they enjoyed themselves fully...although the natives were a bit disappointed that the Ninja's didn't indulge in any 4-deck action during any NZ disseminations...some other fine day perhaps Space Cadet ___ ŠŠ(ŠŠŠ)ŠŠ { ™ ™ ™ } _/¨¨¨¨¨¨¨\_

quoted 4 lines From: "Irene McC" <tullym@iafrica.com>

> From: "Irene McC" <tullym@iafrica.com> > Organization: internet africa > To: robert.merlak@ri.tel.hr, idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: Re: (idm) New Forms

quoted 4 lines And I must say that you cannot even compare Amon and Square,

> > And I must say that you cannot even compare Amon and Square, > > Agreed. Why compare? >

Why compare? Well, i was only comparing out of opinion, as Squarepusher and the Amon CD i have have elements of jazz, dnb, crazy weird beats, etc...TO MY EARS they compare. :) Ali "It means we'll manage I'll master your language And in the meantime I'll create my own" (Tricky)

In reply to:

quoted 1 line

>>>>>>

Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 10:36:12 +0100 From: robert.merlak@ri.tel.hr Subject: Re: (idm) New Forms

quoted 10 lines d'n'b album of the year for me so far has to be "torque", the

> > d'n'b album of the year for me so far has to be "torque", the > > no-u-turn compilation. it's only 3 guys so it sorta qualifies as a > > single artist thing. and despite the fact that it's "just" a > > collection of 12" singles, it still keeps me interested for the entire > > running length. > > > Well, i'm not sure if its this year(i think it is), but the best drum > 'n bass i've heard almost EVER is the cd i picked up today...blew me > away from the first track on...Amon Tobin's "Bricolage". Better than > squarepusher(who was d'nb king in my mind until now!).

Amon Tobin "Bricolage" is very good, I've sold away my copy, because I don't like CDs that are very good, I like exellent ones. And I must say that you cannot even compare Amon and Square, Amon is DnB and Square is techno. And we all know that DnB is form of techno, and Square is king of TECHNO.... In my opinion Amon sounds to rock'n'roll for me , like some kinda bend, and I am tired of that kind of production and soundcare. Square manipulates with sound like not many musicians on the current techno scene............ I've been recently (27.9.1997.) in Graz to see RePHLeX crew playing live (global goon, d'arcangelo, dmx krew, cylob) and djing (squarepusher, kosmik kommando, maf, k rock) Square didn't play a single track that you may say it's DnB. He played a lot of older hardcore stuff (Ongaku, Lenny Dee) and many of hard and banging acidicid stuff), he played some old school breakbeat (SL2, ....) on the end. So you see, he played party music. He is not influenced by jazz and I cannot even sy this : ROCK. His main influences are early breakbeat and banging stuff, and of course things like TroubleFunk, PE,...,fists in the air / happpy party atmosphere ! respect Rob <<<<<< Lets's see if I've got this straight. amon tobin is rock'n'roll influenced d'n'b. squarepusher is neither d'n'b nor in anyway influenced by jazz, but rather a techno artist influenced by TroubleFunk and Public Enemy. I don't know about the happy party atmosphere, but i think there must have been more than fists in the air where you've been hanging out. martin

Mark Kolmar wrote:

quoted 7 lines Once Source Direct have a compilation out, do check into them too. For

> Once Source Direct have a compilation out, do check into them too. For > those not in the UK/Europe, their singles aren't exactly easy to get (even > the ones on Science/Virgin, I end up with unit 1 of 1 at the local shop, > and don't see restocks.) I've liked all the tracks I've heard, at various > points between jungle and techstep (whatever those terms are supposed to > mean, anyway). I'd dare say a comp of their best tracks would top > Photek's album as well as _Torque_ (NoUTurn).

Yeah, SD rock. Just got 'Capital D' and 'Cold Devine'; can't wait to hear them. I'd say that the Hokusai 'Black Rose'/'12 till 4' release has to be the best D&B 12" I've ever heard. That comp will be wicked when it comes out. GD

On Wed, 15 Oct 1997, GD wrote:

quoted 4 lines Mark Kolmar wrote:

> Mark Kolmar wrote: > > > Once Source Direct have a compilation out, do check into them too. For > > those not in the UK/Europe, their singles aren't exactly easy to get (even

[snip]

quoted 6 lines mean, anyway). I'd dare say a comp of their best tracks would top

> > mean, anyway). I'd dare say a comp of their best tracks would top > > Photek's album as well as _Torque_ (NoUTurn). > > Yeah, SD rock. Just got 'Capital D' and 'Cold Devine'; can't wait to hear them. I'd > say that the Hokusai 'Black Rose'/'12 till 4' release has to be the best D&B 12" I've > ever heard. That comp will be wicked when it comes out.

Unfortunately from what I hear, the comp on Astralwerks is supposed to contain only the 3 singles (6 tracks) from the non-US Science/Virgin EPs. Here's hoping they can add some additional vinyl-only sides. However, given the length of the tracks there's room for 3, maybe 4 more on a single CD. A 2nd comp might be in order. --Mark __ <http://www.xnet.com/~mkolmar/BurningRome> < MPEG & RA audio clips > Forthcoming CD SENSELESS on Mindfield Records MINDCD03 Cathartium 14 m u s i c : w e b : s o u n d d e s i g n : h t m l : c g i : e t c "Computers are bringing about a situation that's like the invention of harmony. Subroutines are like chords: No one would think of keeping a chord to himself. You'd give it to anybody who wanted it, you'd welcome alterations of it. Subroutines are altered by a single punch. We're getting music made by man himself, not just one man." -- John Cage