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Re: (idm) Re: Napster (Music & Money)

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◇ merged from 3 subjects: (idm) napster (music & money) · (idm) napster (music & money) : flame 1 · (idm) re: napster (music & money)
2000-03-07 13:36Rishi Saez Re: (idm) Napster (Music & Money)
└─ 2000-03-07 14:02dan@madvision (idm) Napster (Music & Money) : flame 1
2000-03-07 14:14Adam J Weitzman (idm) Re: Napster (Music & Money)
2000-03-07 14:32Rishi Saez Re: (idm) Re: Napster (Music & Money)
2000-03-07 16:08Dave - Re: (idm) Re: Napster (Music & Money)
2000-03-07 21:16...domenick Re: (idm) Re: Napster (Music & Money)
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2000-03-07 13:36Rishi SaezOK let's see if I can start anymore flames. I personally don't think that musicians should
From:
Rishi Saez
To:
Date:
Tue, 07 Mar 2000 05:36:06 PST
Subject:
Re: (idm) Napster (Music & Money)
permalink · <20000307133606.6756.qmail@hotmail.com>
OK let's see if I can start anymore flames. I personally don't think that musicians should really make money off of music. I haven't made more than a few measely bucks off of it, and that's great. I make tracks because I love doing it, and it makes me feel good to have people write me and say "I like your stuff." That's my entire motivation, it makes me feel good. That's why most music is shit these days (on the radio I mean) because people aren't doing it for the music, they're doing it for the money. I could go on and on bitching about corporate radio for hours but that would bore everyone to death so I won't. Anyway (back on topic) Napster is awesome. I only had access to the (crappy) APX albums Richard James and Come To Daddy before Napster, AFX is a big influence on the music that I make! I had never heard AE whatsoever before Napster either. I'm sure that sucks for AFX's and AEs wallets, but hey - they make enough money with music that they don't have to work. What have they got to complain about? (Flame me! I know it's coming!). Making music requires a lot of dedication, skill, etc, but I would hardly call it working. If the entire music industry closed down over the whole MP3 debate and music became something that everyone did for gratification rather than money, I honestly think that music as a whole would be much higher quality, because only music lovers would be left to make music, rather than corporate whores. (Before the flames start, no I didn't just call AFX and AE whores, but face it - How many great musicians are never heard because they can't get signed? How may shit musicians are out there that are making millions? I rest my case). ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-03-07 14:02dan@madvisionpreviously.... >OK let's see if I can start anymore flames. I personally don't think that
From:
dan@madvision
To:
Date:
Tue, 7 Mar 2000 14:02:37 +0000
Subject:
(idm) Napster (Music & Money) : flame 1
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Re: (idm) Napster (Music & Money)
permalink · <DSpWBnA9vQx4Eww$@madvision.demon.co.uk>
previously....
quoted 5 lines OK let's see if I can start anymore flames. I personally don't think that>OK let's see if I can start anymore flames. I personally don't think that >musicians should really make money off of music. I haven't made more than a >few measely bucks off of it, and that's great. I make tracks because I love >doing it, and it makes me feel good to have people write me and say "I like >your stuff." That's my entire motivation, it makes me feel good.
All very well, until you have to make a mortgage repayment or repair the car... !
quoted 6 lines Anyway (back on topic) Napster is awesome. I only had>Anyway (back on topic) Napster is awesome. I only had >access to the (crappy) APX albums Richard James and Come To Daddy before >Napster, AFX is a big influence on the music that I make! I had never heard >AE whatsoever before Napster either. I'm sure that sucks for AFX's and AEs >wallets, but hey - they make enough money with music that they don't have to >work.
Errr... is this not because people have bought their records in the past?.. it we all started just downloading their stuff off the net then they would soon be out of a job as their record labels disappeared... And as for not hearing any Autechre before installing Napster is this just not laziness on your part? I mean Ae and Aphex are not the hardest of cds to come by, (I mean you could buy the last Aphex album in my local Texaco garage!)... and there are realaudio snippets of their work on the warp site... I could go on, but I don't think its worth it... -- dan@madvision.co.uk www.madvision.co.uk --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-03-07 14:14Adam J WeitzmanRishi Saez wrote: > OK let's see if I can start anymore flames. Well, this isn't a flame,
From:
Adam J Weitzman
To:
IDM Mailing List
Date:
Tue, 07 Mar 2000 09:14:48 -0500
Subject:
(idm) Re: Napster (Music & Money)
permalink · <38C50ED8.C99D33A2@newsedge.com>
Rishi Saez wrote:
quoted 1 line OK let's see if I can start anymore flames.> OK let's see if I can start anymore flames.
Well, this isn't a flame, really. It is a thoughtful rebuttal, though.
quoted 2 lines I personally don't think that musicians should really> I personally don't think that musicians should really > make money off of music.
For the life of me, I don't understand this attitude. I personally think that if you can figure out a way to make money doing something you love, well, that's the best of both worlds. Or to put it another way, "I personally don't think advertising executives should really make money off of generating advertising." Who am I to decide which professions get to make money and which ones don't? It's ridiculous. If *you* don't want to make money making music, that's your prerogative. But I don't think you have the right to presume what other people should be able to do.
quoted 3 lines That's why most music is shit these days (on the radio I mean)> That's why most music is shit these days (on the radio I mean) > because people aren't doing it for the music, they're doing it for > the money.
Most music is shit these days because that's what the majority of consumers want. People on this list hate to hear it, but the fact is, most people on the planet are not passionate about music the way we are, and if they are, they are usually teenagers frothing after the latest cutie the record company has sent down the pike. I personally don't have a problem with that; people can listen to what they want, it doesn't affect my ability to find good music if I want to look for it.
quoted 4 lines I had never heard AE whatsoever before Napster either. I'm sure> I had never heard AE whatsoever before Napster either. I'm sure > that sucks for AFX's and AEs wallets, but hey - they make enough > money with music that they don't have to work. What have they > got to complain about?
If you haven't bought the CD/LP that the track you heard came from, then they have every right to complain, because they put time and effort into making an audio creation, and you were unwilling to pay them for their efforts, even though you get to hear it. They didn't release it into the public domain, so they expect to be paid for it. Again, I don't believe that you or I have the right to decide who has "enough" money and who doesn't. I guess we should all go to the parking lot and steal the next Mercedes we see. Clearly, those people have enough money.
quoted 2 lines If the entire music industry closed down... I honestly think that music> If the entire music industry closed down... I honestly think that music > as a whole would be much higher quality...
This is about the worst possible argument you could make in your favor, because it completely undermines your mission. If the music industry closed down, no one would be on the radio, not the great artists and not the crap artists either. Then, since there was absolutely no opportunity to make even a modest living doing music, many potentially great musicians wouldn't even bother to try. Then none of us would get to hear all this great music that was never made.
quoted 3 lines How many great musicians are never heard because they> How many great musicians are never heard because they > can't get signed? How may shit musicians are out there > that are making millions? I rest my case.
I'm fairly well convinced that there are plenty of major-label artists doing what they do because they love it, and there are plenty of indie artists making crapola. This just doesn't fly. I don't think you can really justify what you're doing, especially when it comes to fringe artists like AFX and Ae. These people, as you say, are inspiring you!! How can you not thank them for their inspiration and hard work by at least plunking down for the music they made? -- Adam J Weitzman, NewsEdge Corp. (soon RoweCom Inc.) http://www.newsedge.com - http://www.individual.com "Humor is the best way of dealing with complete and utter nonsense." - John Lydon --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-03-07 14:32Rishi SaezWho am I to decide >which professions get to make money and which ones don't? See that's k
From:
Rishi Saez
To:
Date:
Tue, 07 Mar 2000 06:32:47 PST
Subject:
Re: (idm) Re: Napster (Music & Money)
permalink · <20000307143247.78788.qmail@hotmail.com>
Who am I to decide
quoted 1 line which professions get to make money and which ones don't?>which professions get to make money and which ones don't?
See that's kind of my point. Making music shouldn't be treated as a job, it should be something you do because you like to do it.
quoted 2 lines Most music is shit these days because that's what the majority of consumers>Most music is shit these days because that's what the majority of consumers >want.
Also very true. They didn't release it into the public domain, so
quoted 3 lines they expect to be paid for it. Again, I don't believe that you or I have>they expect to be paid for it. Again, I don't believe that you or I have >the >right to decide who has "enough" money and who doesn't.
Back to my first point, it shouldn't be considered a job. I'm not trying to say that AE and AXF have 'enough' money. Good points again though. If the music industry closed down, no
quoted 5 lines one would be on the radio, not the great artists and not the crap artists>one would be on the radio, not the great artists and not the crap artists >either. Then, since there was absolutely no opportunity to make even a >modest >living doing music, many potentially great musicians wouldn't even bother >to.
I would. I don't get radio play (at least very rarely) and I don't get money. I still do it. Radio would still make it's money in other ways if MP3s became dominant, how I don't know (I'm not a businessman). Maybe advertising or something. But again, good point.
quoted 5 lines I'm fairly well convinced that there are plenty of major-label artists>I'm fairly well convinced that there are plenty of major-label artists >doing >what they do because they love it, and there are plenty of indie artists >making >crapola.
True but I don't think that's really how it is for a lot of bands. There are a ton of them that make music for money and that's it (Metallica is the perfect example).
quoted 5 lines I don't think you can really justify what you're doing, especially when it>I don't think you can really justify what you're doing, especially when it >comes >to fringe artists like AFX and Ae. These people, as you say, are inspiring >you!! How can you not thank them for their inspiration and hard work by at >least plunking down for the music they made?
I did thank them; on my album, and on my web page. I thank them by enjoying their music daily. Thanks for continuing the thread, you have good points. =) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-03-07 16:08Dave ->See that's kind of my point. Making music shouldn't be treated as a >job, >it should be s
From:
Dave -
To:
Date:
Tue, 07 Mar 2000 16:08:04 GMT
Subject:
Re: (idm) Re: Napster (Music & Money)
permalink · <20000307160804.47263.qmail@hotmail.com>
quoted 2 lines See that's kind of my point. Making music shouldn't be treated as a >job,>See that's kind of my point. Making music shouldn't be treated as a >job, >it should be something you do because you like to do it.
What is your point? That if you like something it shouldn't be a job and you shouldn't be paid??? All jobs should only be things we don't like to do? What kind of logic is that? Isn't that the goal of everyone? To get a job in something they like to do? And you are saying it shouldn't be that way? For what reason?
quoted 2 lines I would. I don't get radio play (at least very rarely) and I don't >get>I would. I don't get radio play (at least very rarely) and I don't >get >money. I still do it.
So just because you don't get paid for your music nobody should? I'm sure most of the people making music now would continue because they enjoy it...doesn't mean they shouldn't get paid.
quoted 3 lines Radio would still make it's money in other ways if MP3s became >dominant,>Radio would still make it's money in other ways if MP3s became >dominant, >how I don't know (I'm not a businessman). Maybe >advertising or something. >But again, good point.
ummm just how would they get money? Doesn't sound like you've thought this through at all.
quoted 3 lines True but I don't think that's really how it is for a lot of bands. >There>True but I don't think that's really how it is for a lot of bands. >There >are a ton of them that make music for money and that's it >(Metallica is >the perfect example).
huh? just how is Metallica an example of this?
quoted 2 lines I did thank them; on my album, and on my web page. I thank them by>I did thank them; on my album, and on my web page. I thank them by > >enjoying their music daily.
So you thank them by stealing from them? wow remind me never to have you thank me. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org
2000-03-07 21:16...domenick----- Original Message ----- From: Rishi Saez <fleshpile@hotmail.com> > Who am I to decide
From:
...domenick
To:
,
Date:
Tue, 7 Mar 2000 16:16:54 -0500
Subject:
Re: (idm) Re: Napster (Music & Money)
permalink · <00a901bf887a$78108740$ced60718@adubn1.nj.home.com>
----- Original Message ----- From: Rishi Saez <fleshpile@hotmail.com>
quoted 4 lines Who am I to decide> Who am I to decide > >which professions get to make money and which ones don't? > > See that's kind of my point. Making music shouldn't be treated as a job,
it
quoted 1 line should be something you do because you like to do it.> should be something you do because you like to do it.
except what happens when you don't have the time to write and perfect your skills because you spend too much time at a normal job? ... what better situation than be paid to write music so that's all you have to do?.... the more opportunity you have to work at something, the better it will be....maybe you can consider it a job when the end goal is just to make money...but if the point is to have every available opportunity to create and better yourself, it isn't a job even if you can support yourself with it...... :) ...domenick fractal@systorm.com psychedelic sutra: http://www.systorm.com/fractal --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org