IDM Mailing Archive

Despite the greatness of WarpNet, I must speak in favour of the millions of people who do not have access to java/javascript enabled browsers because they simply don't exist on their machine. This is not a flame, but I think it's quite silly to make a commercial shoppe and then only have it be able to be used by ppl who use Netscape. Not even Internet Explorer works. This means lots of ppl won't be able to shop at WarpMart unless they can get access to a PC somewhere with Netscape and javascript. I found out that I can't even see how much things cost, nor order them because I need JavaScript, furthermore, the permissions on the directories where the HTML files for the item-infos are is set so that you can't go in there, also the thumbnails directory is like this, so you can't see the thumbnails. This used to be (it still works? dunno) the way I downloaded the Quicktime anims of the videos and the images from the gallery, but it seems you can't do the same with WarpMart :I anyone else with an Amiga, or other computer that doesn't have Java for their platform? expecting high frequency response, flame-retartant gear is sorted. :) __ __\ \ / /_\ \ \_____/ www.freq-div.home.ml.org

On Mon, 25 Aug 1997, GamePrg. wrote: } Despite the greatness of WarpNet, I must speak in favour of the millions of } people who do not have access to java/javascript enabled browsers because } they simply don't exist on their machine. } } This is not a flame, but I think it's quite silly to make a commercial } shoppe and then only have it be able to be used by ppl who use Netscape. Not } even Internet Explorer works. This means lots of ppl won't be able to shop } at WarpMart unless they can get access to a PC somewhere with Netscape and } javascript. I agree completely. Even though I use a Mac, I had only Netscape 2, which gave me all sorts of interesting error messages while it flailed trying to interpret all the Java script. So for the love of Warp, I downloaded Netscape 3.02 in all its glory. Now I get no error messages and the computer speaks to me saying "Warpnet" in a whispery vocoder-esque voice upon visiting the site. Neat... but necessary? Also when the mouse travels over the menu buttons, I now get a "bleep" sound. Cool, I guess. It seems there must've been a way to incorporate these (and many other) features without giving non-Netscape 3.0 users zero content. For instance, I personally love frames but early versions of Netscape don't understand them, so a good site should use the <noframes> option to allow the challenged users a decent experience also. I'm sure a lot of people here don't want to mention these problems since it would be almost a sacrilege to anger Warp in the IDM world... even I was relunctant, but some changes to the site are really needed -- more content, less platform based elitism -- there I said it... phew. | E r i c | [mail] franse@engr.arizona.edu | | F r a n s | [web] http://engr.arizona.edu/~franse | "Be happy or die" - The Art of Noise

On 25-Aug-97, GamePrg. wrote:

quoted 2 lines anyone else with an Amiga, or other computer that doesn't have Java for

>anyone else with an Amiga, or other computer that doesn't have Java for >their platform?

I agree, WarpNet's site is a bit elitist. I'm currently using an Amiga 2000, and although the browser does java, it doesn't come up right. Hopefully Warp will learn a lesson in mass marketing ... markw@southwind.net

all you people need to do is ask if other people on the mailing list could take down your vitals and put in your order for you. then warp emails you a confirmation, and that's when you have to call or fax them your credit card. you don't need to give your card number to the person you ask to put in the order. that's what I did, and I will be the happy ower of some warp rarities! (p.s. Mira Calix = Gescom, just incase there's any doubt)

At 7:25 am +0100 26/8/97, PUCKERED1@aol.com wrote:

quoted 2 lines (p.s. Mira Calix = Gescom, just incase there's any doubt)

> >(p.s. Mira Calix = Gescom, just incase there's any doubt)

That's incorrect, but since the archives are down perhaps you can be excused. They were down the last time I checked, anyway. It has been discussed at least twice. With regard to the new Ae, as always with them you need to take some time in your assessment. When I first heard it I thought it was far too similar to their recent stuff and too cold. Now I like it more although I don't think it's among their best single releases. You have to admire thier singlemindedness though. adam

On Tuesday, 26-Aug-97, PUCKERED1@aol.com wrote [about Re: Re: (idm) WarpMart: We Are Not Reasonable People]:

quoted 6 lines all you people need to do is ask if other people on the mailing list could

>all you people need to do is ask if other people on the mailing list could >take down your vitals and put in your order for you. then warp emails you a >confirmation, and that's when you have to call or fax them your credit card. > you don't need to give your card number to the person you ask to put in the >order. that's what I did, and I will be the happy ower of some warp >rarities!

yeah, i'll do that next time.. But I didn't know you didn't enter your cc# on the webpage. -- .auddplte <-- __ __\ \ / /_\ \ \_____/ www.freq-div.home.ml.org

quoted 5 lines Despite the greatness of WarpNet, I must speak in favour of the millions of

>> Despite the greatness of WarpNet, I must speak in favour of the millions of >> people who do not have access to java/javascript enabled browsers because >> they simply don't exist on their machine. > > I disagree. The technology exists, so use it.

Using technology simply because you can is pretty much just public masturbation. Some folks like to watch the circle jerk, and that's fine for them, but sites like WarpNet shouldn't be surprised when it pisses other people off. (Maybe they don't care. If that's the case they should step up and say so.)

quoted 3 lines I personally like to see what gifted persons can do with any given medium

> I personally like to see what gifted persons can do with any given medium > and the web is definitely a new and great medium for these artists to work > with.

So WarpNet is primarily a virtual art gallery as opposed to a commercial web site? With careful design it's possible to do both things at once, but if you're really serious about doing business on the web you shouldn't be putting unnecessary obstacles in the way of your customers. ("No! You MUST LISTEN to the BLOOPY SOUND before you give us your money! If you don't want to spend your TIME and MONEY upgrading your system so you can hear the BLOOPY SOUND, you should GO AWAY!") -- ::: Lazlo (lazlo@swcp.com; http://www.swcp.com/lazlo) ::: Internet Music Wantlists: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo/Wantlists

The real issue places like Warp are trying to address is control. While HTML is a nice, egalitarian language that most people agree on, it doesn't allow for a fineness of control that many web sites want to exert on the experience. The fancy-schmancy tools that everyone uses to make things "bloop" or whatever are the manifestation of that desire to control the experience. Some web sites decide that it is more important to reach the widest possible audience, and agree to give up some of the control. Other sites want to know exactly what it looks like from beginning to end, and they end up using the tools that are available in order to make it happen that way, "graceful degradation" be damned. The fact is, if you have the technology to see it, WarpNet is a damn fine site. They may not wish to present themselves in a lesser-quality environment, and that's apparently the decision they've made. Lazlo Nibble wrote:

quoted 3 lines sites like WarpNet shouldn't be surprised when it pisses other

> sites like WarpNet shouldn't be surprised when it pisses other > people off. (Maybe they don't care. If that's the case they should step up > and say so.)

There's a big sign at the top of the front page that tells you in no uncertain language whether they care or not. They don't. Not right now, anyways. That said, I have all the right tools and I *still* can't use WarpMart because I'm behind a firewall and their software doesn't behave properly when confronted with my packets. I have to use my wife's computer at home to make it work right. I got my Autechre 12" and Squarepusher CD5s in 8 days. Not too shabby. NP: Mark Stewart - Control Data -- Adam J Weitzman -- Individual, Inc. -- http://www.individual.com -- "I'm writing an unathorized autobiography." - Steven Wright

quoted 3 lines There's a big sign at the top of the front page that tells you in no

>There's a big sign at the top of the front page that tells you in no >uncertain >language whether they care or not. They don't. Not right now, anyways.

that's because everyone already knows that Netscape blows away MIE! from my experinece 69% of the people use Netscape and 28% with MIE

At 04:11 PM 8/26/97 -0400, Jeff Birgbauer wrote:

quoted 5 lines There's a big sign at the top of the front page that tells you in no

>>There's a big sign at the top of the front page that tells you in no >>uncertain >>language whether they care or not. They don't. Not right now, anyways. >that's because everyone already knows that Netscape blows away MIE! from >my experinece 69% of the people use Netscape and 28% with MIE

Off topic..but...I'd disagree with this. Maybe before IE4 Beta I would agree navigator is superior, but IE4 Beta (even as a beta) pretty much blows Navigator 4 out of the water. (I'm sure Navigator will probably catch up with the next release though). MIE4 is faster (on my machine anyway) and the full screen feature is very nice. I've been using Navigator for years but use IE4 90% of the time now...except to access the Warpmart site that is. =) T.

On Tue, 26 Aug 1997, Jeff Birgbauer wrote:

quoted 5 lines There's a big sign at the top of the front page that tells you in no

> >There's a big sign at the top of the front page that tells you in no > >uncertain > >language whether they care or not. They don't. Not right now, anyways. > that's because everyone already knows that Netscape blows away MIE! from > my experinece 69% of the people use Netscape and 28% with MIE

And I don't have the ability to run either of them.. well.. at least not now.. Soon I think I'm getting a 64bit gfx card for my Amiga and I'll start using Mac stuff (on an emulator) including Netscape. Other ppl aren't as fortunate to have this though. It's easily possible since the Amiga and Mac run on the same microprocessor. -- __ __\ \ Game Program ( R G / /_\ \ .gampggrmx.1x26s..1<,www.freq-div.home.ml.org<,, \_____/ >> buh@clark.net >> < > .. >> .<>> >> >

Warp-mart's site is really well done and fast, both of which are impossible without the java coding. I can only speak for myself, but I would rather have a really well done and working site than having to wade through badly deisgned crap like most places. Shane -- If you have ICQ, you can reach me by using this number: 2220289 Leave me a world wide page at http://wwp.mirabilis.com/2220289 GO GET ICQ NOW!!! http://www.mirabilis.com

Shane Beers writes:

quoted 2 lines Warp-mart's site is really well done and fast, both of which are

> Warp-mart's site is really well done and fast, both of which are > impossible without the java coding.

excuse me but that is complete and utter shash. java is slow and horribly unstable for most people. let's not even get into javascript... ----------- JavaScript Error: http://www.warp-net.com/warp/control/javascript.html, line 111: document.warpnews has no properties. ----------- shopping cart applications (like warpmart) have been around for a long time (in computer terms, practically eons), and they've done fine without java or javascript.

quoted 3 lines I can only speak for myself, but I

> I can only speak for myself, but I > would rather have a really well done and working site than having to > wade through badly deisgned crap like most places.

warpnet looks pretty, no doubt about that, but in terms of reaching its audience, i have to say it has failed completely. i mean, look at the volume of complaints on this list! and WE are supposedly the people they are trying to reach... that just makes NO sense at all. -- Jon Drukman jsd@gamespot.com SpotMedia Communications ...I was an infinitely hot and dense dot...