IDM Mailing Archive

Two things: 1) Is there a video compilation of Aphex you guys have put together in the past? If so, how do I go about getting a copy? If not, I think this would be a great idea. I'm sure someone out there has really hi-quality video equipment. And I'm sure with our combined manpower we can muscle up all the Aphex Videos ever. Let me know what you think...and what you've got. 2) How about putting together a tape filled with all of Aphex's toughest to get recordings, like Powerpill, the Joyrex stuff, and many of the remixes that I don't want to buy the whole crappy CD just for his remix or two. I would be more than willing to design a nice cover for it and all...let me know what you think...and what you've got. Post advice to me about these projects to the list. Post specific listings of what you've got (videos, rare cd's, remix cd's, good video dubbing equipment) to me personally. I don't want to clutter up the list. :)

On Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:00:18 -0700, you wrote:

quoted 5 lines 2) How about putting together a tape filled with all of Aphex's toughest to

>2) How about putting together a tape filled with all of Aphex's toughest to >get recordings, like Powerpill, the Joyrex stuff, and many of the remixes >that I don't want to buy the whole crappy CD just for his remix or two. I >would be more than willing to design a nice cover for it and all...let me >know what you think...and what you've got.

wow you must have loads of money. i reckon it's cost about GBP£15,000 to license those tracks for a compilation. i wouldn't recommend mastering it to tape though, most people like CDs nowadays. g.

On Friday, 20-Jun-97, g. wrote [about Re: (idm) Aphex Stuff]:

quoted 3 lines wow you must have loads of money. i reckon it's cost about GBP£15,000

>wow you must have loads of money. i reckon it's cost about GBP£15,000 >to license those tracks for a compilation. i wouldn't recommend >mastering it to tape though, most people like CDs nowadays.

heh master it in 33.3kHz :) hm, speaking of money.. I wonder, how much did you guys pay to have WarpNet designed? If tDR charged you what most web-design companies charge I reckon it cost a bloody fortune, or a couple of them :) with all the pages you have, every warp ep/lp page, and then Java is expensive as a bitch too.. __ __\ \ / /_\ \ \_____/ , m7=

On Thursday, 19-Jun-97, Tim Gill wrote [about (idm) Aphex Stuff]:

quoted 5 lines 1) Is there a video compilation of Aphex you guys have put together in the

>1) Is there a video compilation of Aphex you guys have put together in the >past? If so, how do I go about getting a copy? If not, I think this would be >a great idea. I'm sure someone out there has really hi-quality video >equipment. And I'm sure with our combined manpower we can muscle up all the >Aphex Videos ever. Let me know what you think...and what you've got.

the only thing I can tell you is to muscle up all the videos for yourself, and find out if ppl who have them will make you a copy of them. if anyone does have any and would make me a copy of them if I send a tape, let me know ! (privately of coz..) __ __\ \ / /_\ \ \_____/ , m7=

quoted 3 lines 1) Is there a video compilation of Aphex you guys have put together in the

> 1) Is there a video compilation of Aphex you guys have put together in the > past? >

you want to put a compilation together for 3 videos?

quoted 6 lines 2) How about putting together a tape filled with all of Aphex's toughest to

> 2) How about putting together a tape filled with all of Aphex's toughest to > get recordings, like Powerpill, the Joyrex stuff, and many of the remixes > that I don't want to buy the whole crappy CD just for his remix or two. I > would be more than willing to design a nice cover for it and all...let me > know what you think...and what you've got. >

Bad spotter! Bad spotter! It's called tape trading, don't turn it into a business (i shared your misguided notions when i first got started as well). I get mail from people every week offering me money to tape them stuff and i turn em all down, it ain't even about all dat. Just look for the stuff and find it like all the rest of us did. in the end its much more rewarding. The second rule of trainspotting: everything turns up eventually. _____ / ,-,_) /,_) (/ RESH Live & Direct from the G-Spot, Orange County, California, USA http://www1.linkonline.net/fresh/fresh.htm

On Friday, 20-Jun-97, Gonzi \(Fresh\) wrote [about Re: (idm) Aphex Stuff]:

quoted 7 lines Bad spotter! Bad spotter! It's called tape trading, don't turn it into

> Bad spotter! Bad spotter! It's called tape trading, don't turn it into >a business (i shared your misguided notions when i first got started as >well). I get mail from people every week offering me money to tape them >stuff and i turn em all down, it ain't even about all dat. Just look for >the stuff and find it like all the rest of us did. in the end its much >more rewarding. The second rule of trainspotting: everything turns up >eventually.

sheeit.. someone asked if I could copy them stuff, they'd do anything, I told them I'd copy them HAB1 and HAB2 for $5 each :DD if they want to pay.. __ __\ \ / /_\ \ \_____/ , m7=

At 01:13 AM 6/20/97 -0700, Gonzi \(Fresh\) wrote:

quoted 4 lines 1) Is there a video compilation of Aphex you guys have put together in the

>> 1) Is there a video compilation of Aphex you guys have put together in the >> past? >> >you want to put a compilation together for 3 videos?

Hmmm, according to your page (I think( it seemed like there were quite a bit more than 3)...Ah, well, we could just make it an IDM video collection...

quoted 13 lines 2) How about putting together a tape filled with all of Aphex's toughest to

>> 2) How about putting together a tape filled with all of Aphex's toughest to >> get recordings, like Powerpill, the Joyrex stuff, and many of the remixes >> that I don't want to buy the whole crappy CD just for his remix or two. I >> would be more than willing to design a nice cover for it and all...let me >> know what you think...and what you've got. >> > Bad spotter! Bad spotter! It's called tape trading, don't turn it into >a business (i shared your misguided notions when i first got started as >well). I get mail from people every week offering me money to tape them >stuff and i turn em all down, it ain't even about all dat. Just look for >the stuff and find it like all the rest of us did. in the end its much >more rewarding. The second rule of trainspotting: everything turns up >eventually.

Well, I'm sorry if you misunderstood me. I would not charge for this. I'd put it all together. Then people would just send me two tapes. One to tape on, and one to cover shipping and handling...I'm helping out the collective. I'm here for you... :)

In message <2.2.32.19970620094520.0068a87c@mail.fishnet.net>, Tim Gill <lovecrft@fishnet.net> writes

quoted 5 lines Well, I'm sorry if you misunderstood me. I would not charge for this. I'd

>Well, I'm sorry if you misunderstood me. I would not charge for this. I'd >put it all together. Then people would just send me two tapes. One to tape >on, and one to cover shipping and handling...I'm helping out the collective. >I'm here for you... :) >

And i'm not having my Joyrex's (that I spent an extortionate amount of money on finding) recorded onto tape...i'm sure other Joyrex owners feel the same way. Favourite RDJ track: 2nd track on J5!! Absolutely amazing... -- Ben Coffer Hybrid Productions http://www.hybridgame.demon.co.uk/

On 20 Jun 1997 11:24 +0100 (-0400), Ben Coffer wrote to me:

quoted 3 lines And i'm not having my Joyrex's (that I spent an extortionate amount of

> And i'm not having my Joyrex's (that I spent an extortionate amount of > money on finding) recorded onto tape...i'm sure other Joyrex owners > feel the same way.

quoted 1 line Favourite RDJ track: 2nd track on J5!! Absolutely amazing...

> Favourite RDJ track: 2nd track on J5!! Absolutely amazing...

What a snobby attitude! Frankly, my testicles don't double in size when I drop £40 on a rare record, and then boast about it on the internet.... onnow: repeats (a13) Lame Thread Prevention in Effect: Aaron Michelson --------------------------------------------------------------------- aw-teck'r (autechre) "Everything you Know is Wrong" For reviews, interviews, art & trash http://www.on-it.net/~aaron/ aaron@defiant.on-it.net

In message <minimail_33ab2398_b0a6b@amichel.io.org>, Aaron Michelson <aaron@defiant.on-it.net> writes

quoted 11 lines On 20 Jun 1997 11:24 +0100 (-0400), Ben Coffer wrote to me:

>On 20 Jun 1997 11:24 +0100 (-0400), Ben Coffer wrote to me: > >> And i'm not having my Joyrex's (that I spent an extortionate amount of >> money on finding) recorded onto tape...i'm sure other Joyrex owners >> feel the same way. > >> Favourite RDJ track: 2nd track on J5!! Absolutely amazing... > >What a snobby attitude! Frankly, my testicles don't double in size when >I drop 40 on a rare record, and then boast about it on the internet.... >

Really? Coz I find that mine do. -- Ben Coffer Hybrid Productions http://www.hybridgame.demon.co.uk/

On Fri, 20 Jun 1997, Ben Coffer wrote:

quoted 3 lines And i'm not having my Joyrex's (that I spent an extortionate amount of

> And i'm not having my Joyrex's (that I spent an extortionate amount of > money on finding) recorded onto tape...i'm sure other Joyrex owners > feel the same way.

Just as I suspected...with trainspotters, it has nothing to do with the music, it has _everything_ to do with the exclusivity. Fucking lamers Che

On Saturday, 21-Jun-97, Che wrote [about Re: (idm) Aphex Stuff]:

quoted 3 lines And i'm not having my Joyrex's (that I spent an extortionate amount of

>> And i'm not having my Joyrex's (that I spent an extortionate amount of >> money on finding) recorded onto tape...i'm sure other Joyrex owners >> feel the same way.

quoted 2 lines Just as I suspected...with trainspotters, it has nothing to do with the

>Just as I suspected...with trainspotters, it has nothing to do with the >music, it has _everything_ to do with the exclusivity.

Perhaps it's just that we lamers have lives and can't be bothered to sit down and tape all the rare afx stuff for anyone who wants to send in a tape. i would tape them, but a tape trade, not a freebee :) Imagine if we starting giving freebees of everything to everyone.. People would be sending us 14 tapes and expecting us to have them coppied over the weekend. __ __\ \ / /_\ \ \_____/ , m7=

In message <yam7111.1580.126320936@clark.net>, The Rare Guy <buh@clark.net> writes

quoted 5 lines Perhaps it's just that we lamers have lives and can't be bothered to sit

>Perhaps it's just that we lamers have lives and can't be bothered to sit >down and tape all the rare afx stuff for anyone who wants to send in a tape. > >i would tape them, but a tape trade, not a freebee :) Imagine if we starting >giving freebees of everything to everyone..

Precisely. Absolutely right. -- Ben Coffer Hybrid Productions http://www.hybridgame.demon.co.uk/

At 09:21 AM 6/20/97 GMT, g. wrote:

quoted 13 lines On Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:00:18 -0700, you wrote:

>On Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:00:18 -0700, you wrote: > >>2) How about putting together a tape filled with all of Aphex's toughest to >>get recordings, like Powerpill, the Joyrex stuff, and many of the remixes >>that I don't want to buy the whole crappy CD just for his remix or two. I >>would be more than willing to design a nice cover for it and all...let me >>know what you think...and what you've got. > >wow you must have loads of money. i reckon it's cost about GBP£15,000 >to license those tracks for a compilation. i wouldn't recommend >mastering it to tape though, most people like CDs nowadays. > >g.

Errrr...I think I was giving the wrong impression here...it would just be a thing we could throw together to get the harder to get Aphex stuff to people without millions of dollars to get the German only release of powerpill and stuff like that. As I said in a mail I just sent...I was not planning on charging or anything. There's no mastering involved...it would just be dub...I did it on the Radiohead Mailing List and saved my self a hell of alot of time and money..... Am I still a good spotter? Hehe.

At 01:13 1997-06-20 -0700, you wrote:

quoted 4 lines 1) Is there a video compilation of Aphex you guys have put together in the

>> 1) Is there a video compilation of Aphex you guys have put together in the >> past? >> >you want to put a compilation together for 3 videos?

On Ventolin Donkey Rhubarb Ziggy Change Stakker Ageispolis Shotkeya (7th path) That Stakker movie ...and I'm sure that I'm missing out. Maybe you should buy yerself an abacus or something... Mathematically yours, Fe. - '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' = ) - =-= = '''''''''' - - http://gargamel.com/plod -->-->--> -/ - - - ] '''''''' - - mailto:frankie@gargamel.com '''''' = -.. =-= = '''''''''' -

On Friday, 20-Jun-97, Tacograph Overload wrote [about Re: (idm) Aphex Stuff]:

quoted 1 line Shotkeya (7th path)

>Shotkeya (7th path)

Schottkey 7th Path

quoted 1 line Mathematically yours,

>Mathematically yours,

literarily yours, __ __\ \ / /_\ \ \_____/ , m7=

quoted 4 lines On Friday, 20-Jun-97, Tacograph Overload wrote [about Re: (idm) Aphex Stuff]:

>On Friday, 20-Jun-97, Tacograph Overload wrote [about Re: (idm) Aphex Stuff]: >>Shotkeya (7th path) > >Schottkey 7th Path

Shotkeya is the video's title. C. -- C.Hilker (cspot@hyperreal.com) "We don't relax, we Rolex"

quoted 7 lines Bad spotter! Bad spotter! It's called tape trading, don't turn it into

> Bad spotter! Bad spotter! It's called tape trading, don't turn it into >a business (i shared your misguided notions when i first got started as >well). I get mail from people every week offering me money to tape them >stuff and i turn em all down, it ain't even about all dat. Just look for >the stuff and find it like all the rest of us did. in the end its much >more rewarding. The second rule of trainspotting: everything turns up >eventually.

Gonzi, that's pretty easy for those of you who live in...erm, the first world. :) I feel like a spotter coz I managed to get me a _Feed Me Wierd Things_ CD. I can look and look and look, and it still takes *ages* to get anything locally, if at all - And don't even talk about vinyl! [Whine mode == OFF] I know I know, mail order. Speaking of which, any news on WarpMart yet, g? And any recommendations of other places? And 1 other things - Is Sam and Valley as interesting as it sounds? Iain

On Fri, 20 Jun 97 12:47:00 +0200, you wrote:

quoted 3 lines I know I know, mail order. Speaking of which, any news on WarpMart yet,

> >I know I know, mail order. Speaking of which, any news on WarpMart yet, >g?

next week.

quoted 1 line And 1 other things - Is Sam and Valley as interesting as it sounds?

>And 1 other things - Is Sam and Valley as interesting as it sounds?

you play it and you go urm, that's nice and bizarre. and then you never play it again(*) :) g. (*) except at parties to piss people off.

In message <8DA22FF.001E042E28.uuout@onwe.co.za>, IAIN FORFAR <iain@onwe.co.za> writes

quoted 14 lines Bad spotter! Bad spotter! It's called tape trading, don't turn it into

> >> Bad spotter! Bad spotter! It's called tape trading, don't turn it into >>a business (i shared your misguided notions when i first got started as >>well). I get mail from people every week offering me money to tape them >>stuff and i turn em all down, it ain't even about all dat. Just look for >>the stuff and find it like all the rest of us did. in the end its much >>more rewarding. The second rule of trainspotting: everything turns up >>eventually. > >Gonzi, that's pretty easy for those of you who live in...erm, the first >world. :) I feel like a spotter coz I managed to get me a _Feed Me >Wierd Things_ CD. I can look and look and look, and it still takes >*ages* to get anything locally, if at all - And don't even talk about >vinyl!

Well, I get virtually none of my hard to find stuff locally....nearly all from the internet. -- Ben Coffer Hybrid Productions http://www.hybridgame.demon.co.uk/

On Friday, 20-Jun-97, Ben Coffer wrote [about Re: (idm) Aphex Stuff]:

quoted 2 lines Well, I get virtually none of my hard to find stuff locally....nearly

>Well, I get virtually none of my hard to find stuff locally....nearly >all from the internet.

list of afx/ui vinyls I've gotten and where: selected ambient works 85-92: modern music (locally) saw2 vinyl: internet trade universal indicator green: modern music (locally) universal indicatro red: modern music (locally) quoth (test pressing): modern music (locally) xylem tube: modern.. classics: modern.. seefeel: time to find me (w/ afx remixes): modern.. donkey rhubarb, ventolin and ventolin remixes: modern.. powerpill pacman black vinyl: modern.. I guess I'm just lucky, nearly all the rare stuff I have I bought within a 2 mile radius of my home ;) I found a copy of I care because you do there also, but I missed out on it. __ __\ \ / /_\ \ \_____/ , m7=

In message <yam7110.95.126320936@clark.net>, The Rare Guy <buh@clark.net> writes

quoted 19 lines On Friday, 20-Jun-97, Ben Coffer wrote [about Re: (idm) Aphex Stuff]:

>On Friday, 20-Jun-97, Ben Coffer wrote [about Re: (idm) Aphex Stuff]: >>Well, I get virtually none of my hard to find stuff locally....nearly >>all from the internet. > >list of afx/ui vinyls I've gotten and where: > >selected ambient works 85-92: modern music (locally) >saw2 vinyl: internet trade >universal indicator green: modern music (locally) >universal indicatro red: modern music (locally) >quoth (test pressing): modern music (locally) >xylem tube: modern.. >classics: modern.. >seefeel: time to find me (w/ afx remixes): modern.. >donkey rhubarb, ventolin and ventolin remixes: modern.. >powerpill pacman black vinyl: modern.. > >I guess I'm just lucky, nearly all the rare stuff I have I bought within >a 2 mile radius of my home ;)

Yeah but I'm talking about rare stuff! :) Almost everything you've written there i also found in record stores. Tower Records, HMV etc... -- Ben Coffer Hybrid Productions http://www.hybridgame.demon.co.uk/

In a message dated 97-06-20 06:54:50 EDT, fresh@linkonline.net (Gonzi (Fresh)) writes: << The second rule of trainspotting: everything turns up eventually. >> first rule??

Aimee Merritt wrote:

quoted 6 lines Not really. I record mine for anyone who asks. Maybe that's because I

> > Not really. I record mine for anyone who asks. Maybe that's because I > bought them when they were released so I only paid $7.99 or so a > piece- nothing extortionate about that. Come on people!!! Didn't you learn > your lessons on public television? Sharing is good! ;) > -Aimee

Well I have the JOYREX's and I'd share too as long as what I am getting in return is worth my time making tapes!!!!! I mean heck all four/five JOYREX's (spotter i'm not) is at least an hour of music. See you........ 0

quoted 10 lines selected ambient works 85-92: modern music (locally)

>selected ambient works 85-92: modern music (locally) >saw2 vinyl: internet trade >universal indicator green: modern music (locally) >universal indicatro red: modern music (locally) >quoth (test pressing): modern music (locally) >xylem tube: modern.. >classics: modern.. >seefeel: time to find me (w/ afx remixes): modern.. >donkey rhubarb, ventolin and ventolin remixes: modern.. >powerpill pacman black vinyl: modern..

Looking at this list, I see you've got a lot of stuff on my wantlist...please consider helping out the compilation.

Ben, At 11:24 1997-06-20 +0100, Ben Coffer wrote:

quoted 3 lines And i'm not having my Joyrex's (that I spent an extortionate amount of

>And i'm not having my Joyrex's (that I spent an extortionate amount of >money on finding) recorded onto tape...i'm sure other Joyrex owners >feel the same way.

Fuck it. What kinda dumb-ass attitude is this? If you payed such a huge amount on em it's just fucking best to share it with people. Sharing, y' know. Ring a bell? £250 is totally silly. Just because you have the money to pay these idiotic amounts for some 12"s (10" too I guess) doesn't mean everybody else has. I realize this is how things work, but we could at least try to prevent it as far as possible. Just for the record, I'll gladly dub the four J's I own for free. Send me a tape or something and I'll just record it. No postage, nothing.

quoted 1 line Favourite RDJ track: 2nd track on J5!! Absolutely amazing...

>Favourite RDJ track: 2nd track on J5!! Absolutely amazing...

Nah, I like Q-Chastic best. Completely wicked and just my style. (we call it sarcasm) Socialistically yours, Fe. - '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' = ) - =-= = '''''''''' - - http://gargamel.com/plod -->-->--> -/ - - - ] '''''''' - - mailto:frankie@gargamel.com '''''' = -.. =-= = '''''''''' -

Ok, Seems like no-one will leave me alone after my comments about the Joyrex's.....so I'd like to go on record as apologising, sort of...but i will say this....Yes, I probably would tape them for someone but only if that someone was gonna give me something in return.... (i'm also sorry i mentioned the amount i spent on them, but it was *my* HARD-EARNED cash that i used which i can spend however i please, it just happens to be that i'm a big aphex fan). -- Ben Coffer Hybrid Productions http://www.hybridgame.demon.co.uk/

In message <3.0.32.19970621185800.00741b80@gargamel.com>, Tacograph Overload <frankie@gargamel.com> writes

quoted 6 lines Ben,

>Ben, > >>Favourite RDJ track: 2nd track on J5!! Absolutely amazing... > >Nah, I like Q-Chastic best. Completely wicked and just my style. (we call >it sarcasm)

Ok, so I misplaced my favourite RDJ comment which should've gone in a different post entirely unconnected with the other post i sent, it wasn't meant to be sarcastic, it really *is* my favourite track of the moment... -- Ben Coffer Hybrid Productions http://www.hybridgame.demon.co.uk/

quoted 2 lines Just for the record, I'll gladly dub the four J's I own for free. Send me a

>Just for the record, I'll gladly dub the four J's I own for free. Send me a >tape or something and I'll just record it. No postage, nothing.

Cool deal, just send me your address please, and I'll send you the tape.

In a message dated 97-06-22 11:30:07 EDT, you write: << >i would tape them, but a tape trade, not a freebee :) Imagine if we starting >giving freebees of everything to everyone.. Precisely. Absolutely right. >> Well I think you could dub some tapes for people, just put a limit on it. Do so many tapes, but first talk to the people and only do however many tapes you want to. I would be glad to make tapes for people if I had rare aphex like that, It's the least I could do considering alot of them won't ever get the chance to hear it. You could just make tapes at your own pace, you don't have to open a factory of tape dubbing. but I think Sharing is a virtue, don't be stingy with your rare aphex, yes you DID spend your "hard earned money" but remember, when you send dub tapes it's not the real thing, it's just a dub. It seems to me that you feel a little special about having your Joyrex album and you don't want to give up that status, listen, it's not a big deal, share the music with everyone. Just because you have that rare album doesn't make you a bigger fan.

quoted 9 lines From: Ben Coffer <ben@hybridgame.demon.co.uk>

> From: Ben Coffer <ben@hybridgame.demon.co.uk> > Ok, > Seems like no-one will leave me alone after my comments about the > Joyrex's.....so I'd like to go on record as apologising, sort of...but > i will say this....Yes, I probably would tape them for someone but > only if that someone was gonna give me something in return.... > (i'm also sorry i mentioned the amount i spent on them, but it was > *my* HARD-EARNED cash that i used which i can spend however i please, > it just happens to be that i'm a big aphex fan).

I can't see what the problem is here. Being the schizophrenic person I am, I subscribe to both theories (i.e. "I must own the original, at whatever price" & "It's the music that matters - I don't care if it's a dub on tape") - and the deciding factor for me is usually how highly I rate the artist/music involved. Surely it's all up to the individual - some people like to collect records (and hence pay high prices), whereas others just like the music - whatever format it's on. I can't really argue with either stance. I remember something Edwyn Collins once said when asked if he was shocked that his early Orange Juice 7" singles ("Blueboy", in particular) were changing hands for upwards of 50 (UK Pounds) each. He said something like "...and why shouldn't it ? - it's a work of art, after all !!...". I can see his point. You shouldn't expect to get an original Picasso for just a few dollars, but by all means buy a cheap print of the same painting if you prefer, or can't afford the real thing. Let's all be friends :) Aca now spinning: Bedouin Ascent - "Music For Particles"

Mult wrote:

quoted 14 lines I think it's safe to say that most of the people on this list have donated

>I think it's safe to say that most of the people on this list have donated >more than enough to both warp and richard and by passing one bootleg tape >around to twenty or so people would cause either richard or warp to go broke. > Although I do agree that the tape, *in theory*, should only contain out of >print stuff, but I doubt most of the people who are getting this tape are >doing it for On, Donkey Rhubarb, or Quoth, but rather the out of print stuff >that is no longer making Warp, Rephlex, or Richard any money at the moment. > Instead this money is going to record store owners and greedy trainspotters >(keyword here: GREEDY) who want to make a profit (none of which results in >the company or the artist in getting additional money) off of something that >only cost them 7 bucks to get new, and turning it around and selling it for >75 used. > >just my 2 cents.

Yesssssss, how true this is! Especially if it's out of print. It would be nice to see that the intelligence in IDM also implies not participating in the rat race fuelled by (artfificially created?) scarcity of goods, of whatever nature they are. Just think of all the records one can buy at "normal" price (mmm, is it ever normal?) with the amount of money spent on rarities. I agree, the object in itself is fascinating, but when the fascination comes from its social scarcity it's a drag. There must be at least one place where people don't try to get advantage out of each other (and I'm not talking about labels here, it's store owners and other anal personalities...). Why not IDM? ND ============================================ ^ < abardell@tinet.ch > ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ PLUS visit our NEW NEW NEW homepage ^ ^ ^ ^ http://www.tinet.ch/table ^ ^ ^ ^ and join theTable in their mission ^ ^ to make the world look and sound better! ^ ============================================