IDM Mailing Archive

quoted 2 lines Hmmm yeah, i sure like reading pure HTML code too :)

> Hmmm yeah, i sure like reading pure HTML code too :) >

What can I say? Get netscape or explorer. e-mail can't stay pure text forever.... _____ / ,-,_) /,_) (/ RESH Live & Direct from the G-Spot, Orange County, California, USA http://www1.linkonline.net/fresh/fresh.htm

quoted 4 lines Hmmm yeah, i sure like reading pure HTML code too :)

>> Hmmm yeah, i sure like reading pure HTML code too :) > > What can I say? Get Netscape or Explorer. e-mail can't stay pure text > forever ...

I'm not sure if this is arrogance or naivete. It might be naivete. e-mail hasn't been pure text for a long time, Gonzi. Ever hear of MIME? You're soaking in it. Or, it might be arrogance. "Even though I'm the ONLY person on IDM posting HTML messages and expecting people to read their mail via a Web browser (even though the Web browser has a sucky mail reading interface and should stick to what it knows best, namely Web browsing) or fire up a Web browser to read a two-line e-mail message (because their normal mail readers say that's what you can fire up to read this "text/html" type), that's OK!!! Because I am The Great Gonzorama, and I have seen the future, and will lead the way!!!" This reminds me of a story. Back a while ago, the Sun "mailtool" GUI program that comes with OpenWindows gained the ability to send things as attachments (this was pre-MIME), among them being sound file attachments. So a friend at Sun sent me a mail with an audio attachment. The mail message was 36 Kb, with attachment (uuencoded). Since I didn't use "mailtool", I had to unbundle the attachment from the body, copy it to /tmp, uudecode it into the underlying .au file, and play the thing. It turned out to be a verbalized version of a single sentence, and when I typed it in, it turned out to be something like 130 letters long. So I got a 36 Kb email instead of a single-sentence 130-character e-mail of plain text. Sheesh. Now, here we are years later, and Gonzi's telling me I have to fire up Netscape - a process that can take up to a minute on my wheezing old SPARCstation 1 here, depending on system load - to read his 2-liner message. Plain text works for 99 44/100ths percent of us. Get a grip. ObIDM: I finally listened to the Boards of Canada 12" I bought a month and a half ago at Modern Music. (*sheepish grin*) So why doesn't this thing thrill me all that much, given the huzzahs on this list about it? - Greg

In message <9706142120.AA10357@isolar.Tujunga.CA.US>, Greg Earle <earle@isolar.Tujunga.CA.US> writes

quoted 14 lines Hmmm yeah, i sure like reading pure HTML code too :)

>>> Hmmm yeah, i sure like reading pure HTML code too :) >> >> What can I say? Get Netscape or Explorer. e-mail can't stay pure text >> forever ... > >I'm not sure if this is arrogance or naivete. > >It might be naivete. e-mail hasn't been pure text for a long time, Gonzi. >Ever hear of MIME? You're soaking in it. > >Or, it might be arrogance. "Even though I'm the ONLY person on IDM posting >HTML messages and expecting people to read their mail via a Web browser >(even though the Web browser has a sucky mail reading interface and should >stick to what it knows best, namely Web browsing) or fire up a Web browser

Yes this is exactly it....I hardly touch my web browser, mostly use email...and email should stay short and sweet and only take up the minimum amount of space that it needs to. (i.e. the actual number of characters in the message), not be swamped in tonnes of underlying rubbish. -- Ben Coffer Hybrid Productions http://www.hybridgame.demon.co.uk/

quoted 2 lines Plain text works for 99 44/100ths percent of us. Get a grip.

> Plain text works for 99 44/100ths percent of us. Get a grip. >

ahhh hooey. just cause you can get to the store on a horse doesn't mean i still wouldn't rather go in a jaguar convertable. i was going to send a nice page with a graphic background and an embeded midi file to the list but i didn't want to get yelled at :) how big was it? 8k. whoopee. in the interest of the idm archives i guess i'll stay as just text. I reckon 95 percent of the listmembers are able to view HTML in e-mail properly though....

quoted 8 lines "Even though I'm the ONLY person on IDM posting HTML messages and expecting peop

> "Even though I'm the ONLY person on IDM posting HTML messages and expecting people to read their mail via a Web browser > (even though the Web browser has a sucky mail reading interface and should > stick to what it knows best, namely Web browsing) or fire up a Web browser > to read a two-line e-mail message (because their normal mail readers say > that's what you can fire up to read this "text/html" type), that's OK!!! > Because I am The Great Gonzorama, and I have seen the future, and will lead > the way!!!" >

Ha! I will lead the way. As for sucky web browser mail reading interfaces, check out netscape 4.0 and then we'll talk.

quoted 4 lines and Gonzi's telling me I have to fire up

> and Gonzi's telling me I have to fire up > Netscape - a process that can take up to a minute on my wheezing old > SPARCstation 1 here, depending on system load >

or maybe not... _____ / ,-,_) /,_) (/ RESH Live & Direct from the G-Spot, Orange County, California, USA http://www1.linkonline.net/fresh/fresh.htm

Gonzi wrote:

quoted 7 lines ahhh hooey. just cause you can get to the store on a horse doesn't mean

>ahhh hooey. just cause you can get to the store on a horse doesn't mean >i still wouldn't rather go in a jaguar convertable. i was going to send >a nice page with a graphic background and an embeded midi file to the >list but i didn't want to get yelled at :) how big was it? 8k. whoopee. >in the interest of the idm archives i guess i'll stay as just text. I >reckon 95 percent of the listmembers are able to view HTML in e-mail >properly though....

We're able. Just not inclined.

quoted 2 lines Ha! I will lead the way. As for sucky web browser mail reading

>Ha! I will lead the way. As for sucky web browser mail reading >interfaces, check out netscape 4.0 and then we'll talk.

I'll bet that you're as much a software trainspotter as a squarepusher trainspotter. Why would I want to fire up a bloated web browser to read my email. Netscape 4.0 is ridiculously huge. But then again, Squarepusher is ridiculously over-rated. (IMHO) I. Floe >> Maddog Mgmt. (Toronto'Ontario'')

quoted 3 lines That's how Netiquette came about -

> That's how Netiquette came about - > try to think of the other person and don't do any shit to fuck them up. >

My good friend Steve Taylor has a saying: "advance or die." If the internet catered to the lowest common demonenator in terms of computing power it would be quite a boring place indeed. Actually this is a carefully laid out plan to soften the list up so we can begin trading naked pics... i have a wicked one of Claire Daines if anyone is interested (i'm serious)... PS i still love you greg. _____ / ,-,_) /,_) (/ RESH Live & Direct from the G-Spot, Orange County, California, USA http://www1.linkonline.net/fresh/fresh.htm

quoted 4 lines That's how Netiquette came about -

>> That's how Netiquette came about - >> try to think of the other person and don't do any shit to fuck them up. > > My good friend Steve Taylor has a saying: "advance or die."

I actually agree with this; but in this case it's not relevant. HTML has its place. On the Web. Not in e-mail. You want multi-media extensions for your e-mail? That's what MIME is for. Drop that little IDM MIDI file in as a MIME attachment. (On 2nd thought, don't. I don't have a MIDI file player helper app. Most UNIX systems don't.) (And speaking of Netiquette, you're posting a public response to a private e-mail btw ... *smile*)

quoted 2 lines If the Internet catered to the lowest common demonenator [sic] in terms of

> If the Internet catered to the lowest common demonenator [sic] in terms of > computing power it would be quite a boring place indeed.

"demonenator"? Is that like a TCP/IP Satanizer ... hehehehe Um, the problem is that the Internet is catering to something far worse - it assumes "All the world's a PC". This is a lot worse than catering to an LCD of computing power. (Got that Real Audio 4.0 player for UNIX yet? Thought not. I could go on and on ... but this is IDM, not Greg's Rants About How Everyone's Ignoring The Platforms That Allowed Them To Make All This Money On The Internet While Completely Ignoring That These Platforms Exist.)

quoted 2 lines Actually this is a carefully laid out plan to soften the list up so we can

> Actually this is a carefully laid out plan to soften the list up so we can > begin trading naked pics ...

Well, you're already into movies and Cranenberg, not much more of a stretch :-) ObIDM: I dunno if anyone's mentioned this compilation before, but R&S put out this 2-CD "Generations" thing which has a nice mix of IDM, Detroit and other Techno artists on it. "Monolog Generations". 1996 compilation, compiled by DJ Trish. Catalog # GEN 005 CD. All tracks taken from 1994-1996. Tracklisting: CD 1 CD 2 ---- ---- 1. Ian Pooley - "My Anthem" 1. Ian Pooley - "Twin Gods No.4" 2. Kosmic Messenger - "Eye 2 Eye" 2. Silver & Kash - "Spin-Offs" 3. 69 - "Jam The Box" (Heavyweight) 3. Kelli Hand - "Everybody" 4. The Viridian - "Blammo" 4. Ken Ishii - "Extra" (Dave Angel mix) 5. P. A. S.* - "Starway Ritual" 5. 69 - "Rushed" 6. Joey Beltram - "Game Form" 6. The Advent - "Bad Boy" 7. Spira - "Nervejack" 7. Kenny Larkin - "Loop 2" (Luke Slater) 8. Herwig Maurer [who?] - "Ra" 8. Kennith Eight - "Methadon" 9. Silent Phase - "Fantasy" (*P.A.S. == Planetary Assault Systems) Very nice, IMHO. (Even nicer than a nekkid Claire Daines. Whoever *she* is.) - Greg

On Sunday, 15-Jun-97, Greg Earle wrote [about (idm) Re: Good/Bad Song]:

quoted 2 lines HTML has its place. On the Web. Not in e-mail. You want multi-media

>HTML has its place. On the Web. Not in e-mail. You want multi-media >extensions for your e-mail? That's what MIME is for. Drop that little IDM

I think that HTML would make it nice to be able to put images where you want and stuff, but not like Gonzi does it, and certainly not if it's gonna ignore platforms like RealAudio and Netscape (both refused sale of the sourcecode to some amiga programmers). *Greg says*:

quoted 2 lines MIDI file in as a MIME attachment. (On 2nd thought, don't. I don't

>MIDI file in as a MIME attachment. (On 2nd thought, don't. I don't >have a MIDI file player helper app. Most UNIX systems don't.)

You're not missing much. GM sucks the big one. :) *Greg says*:

quoted 2 lines Um, the problem is that the Internet is catering to something far worse -

>Um, the problem is that the Internet is catering to something far worse - >it assumes "All the world's a PC". This is a lot worse than catering to

Amen to that !!! that really pisses me off.. Once a girl sent me her photo encoded in MacBinary (on her PC no less, not a Mac, heh).. First of all.. I had to fire up the Mac emulator, which crashed while the HD was writing, which caused a check-sum error in my main HD, and I had to 'repair' a 1GB HD with a software-based prog... Let's just say she sent me the mail at 4 in the morning, and I wasn't able to see the photo until 6:30AM.. All for a stupid photo of the girl 13 years ago or what not and it was 320x200 in 16 colours (GIF)..

quoted 2 lines an LCD of computing power. (Got that Real Audio 4.0 player for UNIX yet?

>an LCD of computing power. (Got that Real Audio 4.0 player for UNIX yet? >Thought not. I could go on and on ... but this is IDM, not Greg's Rants

heh so it's not on Unix either, how lame. *Gonzi says*:

quoted 2 lines Actually this is a carefully laid out plan to soften the list up so we can

>> Actually this is a carefully laid out plan to soften the list up so we can >> begin trading naked pics ...

go ahead, we can view any type of pics in e-mail without the slowness of netscape mail. so that's what's been slowin' it down, converting all that e-mail into HTML. __ __\ \ / /_\ \ \_____/ , m7=

I haven't been following this thread much, but I feel obligated to correct this gross misconception -- if the internet assumes anything (which it doesn't), it assumes unix, not PC. On Sun, 15 June 1997, at 23:20:57, The Rare Guy wrote:

quoted 3 lines *Greg says*:

> *Greg says*: > >Um, the problem is that the Internet is catering to something far worse - > >it assumes "All the world's a PC". This is a lot worse than catering to

quoted 2 lines In message <9706142120.AA10357@isolar.Tujunga.CA.US>, Greg Earle

>In message <9706142120.AA10357@isolar.Tujunga.CA.US>, Greg Earle > <earle@isolar.Tujunga.CA.US> writes

quoted 4 lines Hmmm yeah, i sure like reading pure HTML code too :)

>>> Hmmm yeah, i sure like reading pure HTML code too :) >> >> What can I say? Get Netscape or Explorer. e-mail can't stay pure text >> forever ...

Not everyone in the universe has POP3 compliant mail; some of us are forced to use such archaic tools as pine and vi. If you want your message viewed in HTML, I suggest posting your web site URL. Otherwise pure text will convey your message just fine. | Bob Weisend | | MIME type: human/bw-groovechild | | rweisend@galaxy.csc.calpoly.edu | | http://www.csc.calpoly.edu/~rweisend |

On Monday, 16-Jun-97, Bob Weisend wrote [about (idm) Re: Good/Bad Song]:

quoted 4 lines Not everyone in the universe has POP3 compliant mail; some of us are

>Not everyone in the universe has POP3 compliant mail; some of us are >forced to use such archaic tools as pine and vi. If you want your >message viewed in HTML, I suggest posting your web site URL. Otherwise pure >text will convey your message just fine.

I used Pine when I only had a shell account, and found it to be an excellent mail-reader.. After I got a PPP account I found that most mail programs paled in comparison, so I kept using Pine, and after a while I got a program for Amiga called Voodoo, which was just like Pine, really.. Now I use something called YAM which lets me have a seperate folder just for IDM mail! (ie. better than Pine), and it keeps my PPP line up 24 hours a day by fooling the auto-idle checking script. HAH! oh btw.. Vi isn't a mail program, it's an editor.. heh I used to be on a system that had _ElVis_, the Vi clone :D .. if you sent some msg that bounced back, you'd get some text signed by The King (really says that) :) __ __\ \ / /_\ \ \_____/ , m7=

On Mon, 16 Jun 1997, The Rare Guy wrote:

quoted 3 lines Now I use

> Now I use > something called YAM which lets me have a seperate folder just for IDM mail! > (ie. better than Pine),

It shouldn't be the MUA's (mail user agent, like YAM or Pine) job to decide what folder *incoming* mail goes into. That should be handled by the MTA (mail transfer agent, like sendmail) which receives the mail in the first place. If your mail is stored on a Unix server, you use a program called procmail (fleely available, and installed on many Unix systems) to process the mail and put it into the correct folder as it arrives. Then it'll be in the right folder no matter what MUA you use. And don't use pop3. Use IMAP4 instead. It's a far, far more powerful mail access protocol. It's a shame that so litte software supports it (but Pine *does*). Just felt like venting some e-mail frustration :-). Like with operating systems, most people choose the inferior mail software and protocols. Being an Amiga user, I'm sure you know how frustrating that feels. Emanuel.

On Monday, 16-Jun-97, Emanuel Borsboom wrote [about Re: (idm) Re: Good/Bad Song]:

quoted 3 lines Just felt like venting some e-mail frustration :-). Like with operating

>Just felt like venting some e-mail frustration :-). Like with operating >systems, most people choose the inferior mail software and protocols. >Being an Amiga user, I'm sure you know how frustrating that feels.

I don't believe I'm using the inferior mail software.. and you cannot put filters on your mail to make certain mails go to one folder while others go to another in UNIX (as far as I know), which is what I'm doing with YAM. The only thing about being an Amiga user I'm frustrated with is the frequent crashes of certain software and the lack of up-to-date features in software. *sigh* __ __\ \ / /_\ \ \_____/ , m7=

On 17 Jun 1997 2:57 EST4EDT, The Rare Guy wrote to me:

quoted 2 lines The only thing about being an Amiga user I'm frustrated with is the frequent

> The only thing about being an Amiga user I'm frustrated with is the frequent > crashes of certain software and the lack of up-to-date features in software.

One word: MiniMail It's teeny, it's simple.... it works. Lame Thread Prevention in Effect: Aaron Michelson --------------------------------------------------------------------- aw-teck'r (autechre) "Everything you Know is Wrong" For reviews, interviews, art & trash http://www.on-it.net/~aaron/ aaron@defiant.on-it.net

quoted 2 lines Not everyone in the universe has POP3 compliant mail; some of us are

> Not everyone in the universe has POP3 compliant mail; some of us are > forced to use such archaic tools as pine and vi.

I've used 5 or 6 different email programs in my time, but have scrapped them all and am sticking with pine. Coupled with procmail, it's better setup and much faster than any of the others I've tried.

In message <Pine.SOL.3.91.970615215429.28823C-100000@phoenix.csc.calpoly .edu>, Bob Weisend <rweisend@phoenix.csc.calpoly.edu> writes

quoted 13 lines In message <9706142120.AA10357@isolar.Tujunga.CA.US>, Greg Earle

> >>In message <9706142120.AA10357@isolar.Tujunga.CA.US>, Greg Earle >> <earle@isolar.Tujunga.CA.US> writes > >>>> Hmmm yeah, i sure like reading pure HTML code too :) >>> >>> What can I say? Get Netscape or Explorer. e-mail can't stay pure text >>> forever ... > >Not everyone in the universe has POP3 compliant mail; some of us are >forced to use such archaic tools as pine and vi. If you want your >message viewed in HTML, I suggest posting your web site URL. Otherwise pure >text will convey your message just fine.

Hate to get all techy but POP3 is a protocol for *collecting* your mail from a mail server. I think you meant not everyone has HTML compliant mail. -- Ben Coffer Hybrid Productions http://www.hybridgame.demon.co.uk/

In message <2.2.32.19970617075143.00681e84@mail.fishnet.net>, Tim Gill <lovecrft@fishnet.net> writes

quoted 7 lines The only thing about being an Amiga user I'm frustrated with is the frequent

>>The only thing about being an Amiga user I'm frustrated with is the frequent >>crashes of certain software and the lack of up-to-date features in software. >> >>*sigh* >> >Look, you've got an Amiga...what do you expect? >

A lot less crashes than a windows PC... -- Ben Coffer Hybrid Productions http://www.hybridgame.demon.co.uk/

Hey cool, LOOK AT THE FUCKING SUBJECT LINE (if your email viewer supports it). Aaron (sp?), why don't you jump in with some lame thread prevention?

quoted 3 lines In message <2.2.32.19970617075143.00681e84@mail.fishnet.net>, Tim Gill

>In message <2.2.32.19970617075143.00681e84@mail.fishnet.net>, Tim Gill ><lovecrft@fishnet.net> writes >>>The only thing about being an Amiga user I'm frustrated with is the

frequent

quoted 1 line crashes of certain software and the lack of up-to-date features in

>>>crashes of certain software and the lack of up-to-date features in

software.

quoted 12 lines *sigh*

>>> >>>*sigh* >>> >>Look, you've got an Amiga...what do you expect? >> >A lot less crashes than a windows PC... > >-- >Ben Coffer >Hybrid Productions >http://www.hybridgame.demon.co.uk/ >

quoted 8 lines Like with operating systems, most people choose the inferior mail

>> Like with operating systems, most people choose the inferior mail >> software and protocols. Being an Amiga user, I'm sure you know how >> frustrating that feels. > > I don't believe I'm using the inferior mail software.. and you cannot > put filters on your mail to make certain mails go to one folder while > others go to another in UNIX (as far as I know), which is what I'm doing > with YAM.

Uhrrr, there were probably email filtering tools for UNIX long before there were any for personal computers of *any* flavor. (I use procmail, which can do just about anything you like with your incoming mail short of shredding it and putting it in your cat's litter box.) -- ::: Lazlo (lazlo@swcp.com; http://www.swcp.com/lazlo) ::: Internet Music Wantlists: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo/Wantlists

At 11:10 AM 6/17/97 +0100, Ben Coffer wrote:

quoted 10 lines In message <2.2.32.19970617075143.00681e84@mail.fishnet.net>, Tim Gill

>In message <2.2.32.19970617075143.00681e84@mail.fishnet.net>, Tim Gill ><lovecrft@fishnet.net> writes >>>The only thing about being an Amiga user I'm frustrated with is the frequent >>>crashes of certain software and the lack of up-to-date features in software. >>> >>>*sigh* >>> >>Look, you've got an Amiga...what do you expect? >> >A lot less crashes than a windows PC...

I have no idea how reliable that info is...my Win95 works just fine and I run it pretty hard...lots of graphic design proggies like Photoshop, Freehand, Pagemaker...all at the same time... But I guess if there's that big of a difference, you have to decide whether it's worth not having up-to-date software support. I figure you knew what you were getting into when you bought the thing.

On Tuesday, 17-Jun-97, Tim Gill wrote [about Re: (idm) Re: Good/Bad Song]:

quoted 3 lines I have no idea how reliable that info is...my Win95 works just fine and I

>I have no idea how reliable that info is...my Win95 works just fine and I >run it pretty hard...lots of graphic design proggies like Photoshop, >Freehand, Pagemaker...all at the same time...

quoted 3 lines But I guess if there's that big of a difference, you have to decide whether

>But I guess if there's that big of a difference, you have to decide whether >it's worth not having up-to-date software support. I figure you knew what >you were getting into when you bought the thing.

yeah.. When I got my Amiga in '93, it was better than any PC on the market. __ __\ \ / /_\ \ \_____/ , m7=