IDM Mailing Archive

On Sat, 15 Mar 1997, Ben Coffer wrote: ]Well, hey we get your Ricki Lake show over here in the UK and everyone ]on that appears to be influenced by hiphop... Oh God. I can't believe this is what America is showing its neighbors. I'm ashamed to live in the same country as Ricki Lake. Seriously...hip hop here sells for some reason...right now there's a car commercial showing a bunch of yuppies riding around in the mud with Montell Jordan's "This is how we do it" in the background... .-------------------------------------------------------------------------. | nm: nickworthington | ml: nworth1@umbc.edu | .25grandizer1wrecktangle | |-------------------------------------------------------------------------| | http://www.gl.umbc.edu/~nworth1 | "Walk softly and carry a big spliff." | `-------------------------------------------------------------------------'

In message <Pine.SGI.3.95.970317234023.16810B-100000@umbc9.umbc.edu>, wrecktangle <nworth1@gl.umbc.edu> writes

quoted 8 lines On Sat, 15 Mar 1997, Ben Coffer wrote:

>On Sat, 15 Mar 1997, Ben Coffer wrote: > >]Well, hey we get your Ricki Lake show over here in the UK and everyone >]on that appears to be influenced by hiphop... > >Oh God. I can't believe this is what America is showing its neighbors. >I'm ashamed to live in the same country as Ricki Lake. >

Believe it....we've got four channels in the UK, and the fourth (supposedly most innovative) channel beams out Ricki Lake everyday at 5:00......presumably *this* is what we're supposed to think the average american people are like.......well, until "Friends" got shown of course. :) -- Ben Coffer Hybrid Productions http://www.hybridgame.demon.co.uk/

On 18-Mar-97, Ben Coffer scribbled something about Re: (idm) Re: idm V1 #1020:

quoted 5 lines Believe it....we've got four channels in the UK, and the fourth

>Believe it....we've got four channels in the UK, and the fourth >(supposedly most innovative) channel beams out Ricki Lake everyday at >5:00......presumably *this* is what we're supposed to think the average >american people are like.......well, until "Friends" got shown of >course. :)

heh.. NOT! american people always ask "where the **** do they find these ppl?" when they see it, in fact it's the slogan to one of the talk shows here in the US. :) hm.. Ask Alan, maybe he'll tell us what he thinks of American people, from a British perspective. ;) -- __ __\ \ Aurafix aka Hillie / PHD ^ DAMONES / /_\ \ http://www.clark.net/pub/buh/index.html \_____/ >> buh@clark.net >> < > .. >> .<>> >> > , m7= Do re mi fa so la ti .. Oh let's see if we can make it easier..

This stuff:

quoted 10 lines On 18-Mar-97, Ben Coffer scribbled something about Re: (idm) Re: idm V1 #1020:

> On 18-Mar-97, Ben Coffer scribbled something about Re: (idm) Re: idm V1 #1020: > >Believe it....we've got four channels in the UK, and the fourth > >(supposedly most innovative) channel beams out Ricki Lake everyday at > >5:00......presumably *this* is what we're supposed to think the average > >american people are like.......well, until "Friends" got shown of > >course. :) > > heh.. NOT! american people always ask "where the **** do they find these > ppl?" when they see it, in fact it's the slogan to one of the talk shows > here in the US. :)

...But it sells. There's not so much of a difference between being the one who habitually gawks at Lashonda screaming down Phoenicia for having taken her man away and being either Lashonda or Phoenicia. The customers of the product find themselves reflected in it. "Ricki Lake" represents *exactly* both what Americans like and what they *are* like. Crass, doltish, and given to toothless scandal. And as for 'Friends', well, that inane show, if the people I know who watch it are any indication, it represents exactly what most young Americans *want* to be like. Or what they are already, given a minor adjustment of sociological demographics from the case of 'Ricki Lake' - and in which case the high ratings can be accounted for by the most base gen-x narcissism. 'Friends', 'Ricki Lake', 'We the People' - not so much difference in the end. It's all about 'what is mine?', not 'what is mind?'. Hating America, where it's all Sub-Culture, sr -- sd

On 20-Mar-97, objet petit a scribbled something about (idm) "you gotta represent":

quoted 4 lines ...But it sells. There's not so much of a difference between being the

>...But it sells. There's not so much of a difference between being the >one who habitually gawks at Lashonda screaming down Phoenicia for having >taken her man away and being either Lashonda or Phoenicia. The customers >of the product find themselves reflected in it.

yep. Well I don't think they find themselves reflected in it, at least not most people I know. They just think it's damn funny. especially ppl from other countries, they can't believe that there are such types of people :) there's a lot of british ppl who are in the audience of those shows too if you notice. and they are all seemingly laughing at the ppl or asking them questions which for most people are basic knowledge, and it makes the people look like morons. :D

quoted 2 lines "Ricki Lake" represents *exactly* both what Americans like and what they

>"Ricki Lake" represents *exactly* both what Americans like and what they >*are* like. Crass, doltish, and given to toothless scandal.

So what else is new? every drama on TV has some kind of scandal.

quoted 6 lines And as for 'Friends', well, that inane show, if the people I know who

>And as for 'Friends', well, that inane show, if the people I know who >watch it are any indication, it represents exactly what most young >Americans *want* to be like. Or what they are already, given a minor >adjustment of sociological demographics from the case of 'Ricki Lake' - >and in which case the high ratings can be accounted for by the most base >gen-x narcissism.

Friends is well trippy.. ;)

quoted 1 line Hating America, where it's all Sub-Culture,

>Hating America, where it's all Sub-Culture,

heh well I don't like it too much, but I don't care about the part you're talking about much, it's moreso the crime, the ban-everything syndrome, and some other political stuff. Just my 1 FIM :) -- __ __\ \ Aurafix aka Hillie / PHD ^ DAMONES / /_\ \ http://www.clark.net/pub/buh/index.html \_____/ >> buh@clark.net >> < > .. >> .<>> >> > , m7= Do re mi fa so la ti .. Oh let's see if we can make it easier..

I said it before and I'll say it again: Although these are American shows, this whole conversation begain with how these are now on British TV. There ARE stupid people in Britain! THERE ARE STUPID PEOPLE EVERYWHERE! All those folks at the soccer games and at the raves and at the Oasis concerts are the same basic "types" as the folks here who watch football and listen to Bush. I'm so sick of hearing how Americans are stupid. Compared to whom?!? Germans? Japanese? Russians? Indonesians? Please! The *French*? Come on! And the Brits? The only difference is that while in the US 95% of the people are stupid, maybe in england it's more like 94%. -Chris Fahey

quoted 9 lines -----Original Message-----

> -----Original Message----- > From: objet petit a [lacanian@sover.net] > > > 'Friends', 'Ricki Lake', 'We the People' - not so much difference in > the end. It's all about 'what is mine?', not 'what is mind?'. > > Hating America, where it's all Sub-Culture, >

quoted 4 lines The customers of the product find themselves reflected in it.

> The customers of the product find themselves reflected in it. > > "Ricki Lake" represents *exactly* both what Americans like and what they > *are* like. Crass, doltish, and given to toothless scandal.

you make a good point with the first statement, but then put forth a gross over-generalization with the second...it is not what ALL americans like, nor is it what they are ALL like...i would hope that you [and others] would agree...

quoted 3 lines And as for 'Friends', well, that inane show, if the people I know who

> And as for 'Friends', well, that inane show, if the people I know who > watch it are any indication, it represents exactly what most young > Americans *want* to be like.

that's more like it: MOST, not ALL, young americans...but, imho still a little top-heavy... this ofcourse works with idm [and, for that matter, all other types of music], as well...there is a fundamental connection/reflection that occurs...that's why we enjoy listening to it...now, to tie this in with the commercialism vs. underground issue, what does that say about those who are interested in one or the other? or both? wondering, jamesbt -- Lead Encoding Specialist N2K Entertainment/Music Boulevard http://www.musicblvd.com http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Alley/4055 "mod is a system of codes marshaled toward self-alienation" - matthew waid parker [modslister]

you wrote:

quoted 3 lines to tie this in with

> to tie this in with > the commercialism vs. underground issue, what does that say about those > who are interested in one or the other? or both?

personally operant definitions - commercial culture can be defined as exactly that which does not require attentive interest to be participated in, but even as that which depends upon a certain lack of interest and attention in the consumer. 'underground', well, interest in that requires at the very least an attention span, and certainly an attention to *detail* (cheers, trainspotters), something that can't be exercised if one is gripped by a lack of interest. To participate in commercial culture takes as much effort as taking out the trash. Participation in underground culture, well, that a bit more like hunting for truffles. as for crossover - well, you go out into public during the day, and come home at night. same difference, interest in both. One should never expect a shopping mall to be as accommodating as one's living room. And of course, commercialization of the underground - the mall wants your business, so they try to make you feel at home through simulation of the familiar. This, however, will never ultimately succeed. The retailers depend on the fact that it'll succeed for a little while, but as soon as everyone's got Squarepusher on their decks, the ones who discovered it first will have found it cheapened & alienating, not very personal anymore. Mass-marketed individualism: bane of modern existence. sorry if all of this annoys anyone for its apparent irrelevance to idm. it all does, however, fit within the question asked by Toop in the AI2 sleeve: "Do we still find mechanization and commerce ugly? Is spirituality crushed beneath them? Electronic music is one bulletin board on which such questions can be posted." PS - where the hell is the RDJ 'my teapot'? UK ed. only, I suppose? off for a hunting-gathering expedition at the local FoodMart, sr -- sd