IDM Mailing Archive

2000-02-17 19:52kurt>i think moby is a total idiot. agreed, and "Play" is an embarrassment. >i think it is apa

From:: kurt <supine@bway.net>
To:: Andrew Duke <cognition@ns.sympatico.ca>
Cc:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 14:52:37 -0500
Subject:: Re: (idm) article by moby in Time

quoted 1 line i think moby is a total idiot.

>i think moby is a total idiot.

agreed, and "Play" is an embarrassment.

quoted 4 lines i think it is apalling that white men like

>i think it is apalling that white men like >moby and fatboy slim and others bastardize black >standards/spirituals/classics to make their >"electronica" shite.

quoted 3 lines moby, et al

> moby, et al >seem content to toss all sense of morals et al >out the window

is there really a moral priciple that could be followed about who can be sampled by who, and could it really be defined by race? I don't think so; you'd wind up with some sort of musical Jim Crow law (or a "protected species act"), albeit spurred by an empathy for a class/economic underdog. perhaps the problem is aesthetic, not moral. Moby managed to make a sow's ear out of a silk purse. His collages were too heavily reliant on the strength of somebody else's material, his creative contribution was to "personalize" something better heard on its own terms. had the result been truly creative and interesting, I don't think "moral" questions would arise about Moby. another issue lies in the old dialog about what constitutes a legitimate use of someone else's music vis a vis sampling. using little snippets or riffs to give color to a truly original piece of music is not problematic. using someone's entire song (as Moby does) without their consent becomes problematic, and that has nothing to do with class or race. as far as the black/white thing in music goes, there's just been such an enormous amount of borrowing/stealing of ideas, and more recently, direct samples, across "color lines" that I think it's really off base to get upset about some white guy using samples of music by a black person. think of all the hip hop acts that sampled white acts (rock bands, Kraftwerk, etc), think of the profound influence the white Tin Pan Alley songwriters had on jazz, etc. etc. It is pointless --and utterly untenable -- to expect musicians to rely only on musical resources by their racial/economic/whatever peers. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

2000-02-17 21:27wooblack/white - its all made on japanese instruments > as far as the black/white thing in mu

From:: woo <woostern@uclink4.berkeley.edu>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 13:27:55 -0800
Subject:: Re: (idm) article by moby in Time

black/white - its all made on japanese instruments

quoted 1 line as far as the black/white thing in music goes, there's just been such an

> as far as the black/white thing in music goes, there's just been such an

enormous amount of borrowing/stealing of ideas, and more recently, direct samples, across "color lines" that I think it's really off base to get upset about some white guy using samples of music by a black person. think of all the hip hop acts that sampled white acts (rock bands, Kraftwerk, etc), think of the profound influence the white Tin Pan Alley songwriters had on jazz, etc. etc. It is pointless --and utterly untenable -- to expect musicians to rely only on musical resources by their racial/economic/whatever peers. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

2000-02-17 21:45TechnoticaIn regards to the Moby issue...when one wonders how he became the 'spokesperson' for UG el

From:: Technotica <lol3@voicenet.com>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.org>
Date:: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 16:45:50 -0500
Subject:: (idm) Re:article by moby in Time
Reply to:: Re: (idm) article by moby in Time

In regards to the Moby issue...when one wonders how he became the 'spokesperson' for UG electronic music. I think a large part of it is the fact that he simply made himself available to any media needing information...I have a large archive of magazines, and in a very large number of them he is on the cover and interviewed....at a time when most electronic artists shunned attention and publicity (it was considered quite gouache for awhile to even ask a certain Dj or producer for their autograph), Mobys willingness to share his news and views made him popular with the media circus who had been desperate for any info on this culture whose ideals and music eluded thier grasp and understanding of. Since they also saw that he had some tunes which did well, combined with his 'interesting' personal politics and family background, this made the publicity machine happy, for it took him from just being a person involved with the scene, to the cult of personality. The second concern that was raised regarding the appropriation of black music by some artists....well...what goes around, comes around I say....Mixmaster Morris said something like, "we spent the last so-many-hundred years making music, now it time to sample it. I have no real opinion if it's good or bad...I do know that I was kinda gettin a tad miffed by Puff Daddys re-inventions....and what about last years big rap hit sampling the hell out of 'It's a Hard Knock Life', well, I just heard another rap tune taking the chorus and melody riff from another white boys Broadway hit....so, who's calling the kettle black here (said with a wry sense of humor...I'm just throwing this out there...peruse at your own risk ;) Ok then Linda np-> ons engineering/monkey+1 on outward - futuristic exeriments that have a funky feel in a mash up mixed up kinda way ---------------------- Linda Leigh/L3 www.technotica.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

(idm) Re:article by moby in Time