IDM Mailing Archive

quoted 5 lines As you (Erkki) may also know, people like Panasonic are keeping alive the

>As you (Erkki) may also know, people like Panasonic are keeping alive the >proud tradition of being "unconventional" or subversive with their music. >To me, Techno, IDM, Electronica or whatever you want to call it, isa all >about being subversive and when we stop being subversive, difficult or >challenging we may as well call it quits.

The underground subversive nature of techno is what really drew me to it in the first place. Seemed to me to be the perfect way to hack at the confines of a stagnant and conservatively perverse society. And if it (techno/rave etc. movement) were to loose this aspect of it, well, we may as well sell our rdj and autechre rekkids, start buying happy hardcore rave anthem compilations, and all start doing mass amounts of prozac... This, to me is most of what the commercial vs underground debate is all about (no thread intended...) Most of the underground events, and promoters I've been around seem to have a political agenda of some sort... not anything overt like "Dole in 96", but at least a consciousness about societal issues that need addressing, and it seems as though this comes through, as the kind of people that I meet at these events are generally like minded...whereas at any of the commercial event I've been to, all I've come across are mindlessly hepped up kids, still in they're highschool clique mode, who wouldn't know a social cause if they were one... case in point... on the subject of fashion and raves, one 17 yr old raver was quoted as saying... "I don't talk to anyone that's not dressed as well as I am cause if they're not, they're poor, and if they're poor they're scum..." hmmmm, lovely, rave consciousness as dictated by Channel... Sorry, but I'd much rather see the techno community stick to examples provided by the likes of UR and the KLF and assault the mainstream with enough blips and bass to make them see the errors of their ways... (hey, we can all dream can't we? :)

quoted 4 lines I like Muzlimgause's music, but I hope I don't have to subscribe to his

>I like Muzlimgause's music, but I hope I don't have to subscribe to his >polatics in order to buy it. However his polatics is obviously a big part >of his life, and if he draws on that for his inspiration that's fair >enough.

if you can't let your passions show through in your art, the most fundamental expression of your inner self, then what can you do??? ok, rant mode off, though I'm sure I've forgotten something, hmmmmm peace q on a related (?) note, I'm assuming others have read the burning man article in Wired... nicely done, especially the last paragraph, and the part about the guy reading on the 45mph toilet...ok, I'm there next year no matter what... By pressing down the special key it plays a little melody... --- some stuff I'm working on for Syntext Communications www.amproductions.com/ www.amproductions.com/Syntext2.html www.amproductions.com/N-Rage.html ---

quoted 4 lines Sorry, but I'd much rather see the techno community stick to

> Sorry, but I'd much rather see the techno community stick to > examples provided by the likes of UR and the KLF and assault the mainstream > with enough blips and bass to make them see the errors of their ways... > (hey, we can all dream can't we? :)

If techno really does create seams, gaps, etc. in the fabric of authority (something it rarely even begins to do, i think) that it is our (meaning consumers and producers) responsibility to think about what begins to fill those gaps...hating a race of people is not cool, it is not subversive, it is not radical, it is not good, beyond that supporting genocide is fucking moronic. If that is in fact an accurate description of Musilimgauze's politics (again, somthing I've never felt completely comfortable doing) than they should be watched not as just another techno artist but as the hatemongers that they are...don't buy his music, don't give him an audience and it'll never get anywhere. (if only i believed that)

quoted 4 lines if you can't let your passions show through in your art, the most

> if you can't let your passions show through in your art, the most > fundamental expression of your inner self, then what can you do??? > > ok, rant mode off, though I'm sure I've forgotten something, hmmmmm

peace? come on...peace to who? if idi amin had made idm i'd have been hard pressed to think of it simply as an expression of his inner self in good conscience. paul.

On Sun, 27 Oct 1996, quentin wrote:

quoted 11 lines As you (Erkki) may also know, people like Panasonic are keeping alive the

> > >As you (Erkki) may also know, people like Panasonic are keeping alive the > >proud tradition of being "unconventional" or subversive with their music. > >To me, Techno, IDM, Electronica or whatever you want to call it, isa all > >about being subversive and when we stop being subversive, difficult or > >challenging we may as well call it quits. > > The underground subversive nature of techno is what really drew me > to it in the first place. Seemed to me to be the perfect way to hack at > the confines of a stagnant and conservatively perverse society. And if it > (techno/rave etc. movement) were to loose this aspect of it, well, we may

i'm going to go off on a bit of a tangent in reference to this conversation: i agree mostly with what is said about Electronic music in the context of subculture, but i would like to add that things always change, and when you've got something as good as this, (it's a product of its time, it's here to stay, it's a revolution in music much the same way rock'n'roll was..) it's not going to be able to stay exclusively underground. "Rave" doesn't mean what it did--it is no longer subculture--the venues have changed and will keep on changing. I love this culture of music, but i accept that one cannot be too nostalgic , i'm watching, listening in eager anticipation how the subculture will manifest itself all over again after mtv, vh-1, and such wrench it out. What i'm trying to say is, the music is becoming less specific to it's parent culture, because it is so far-reaching and perceptive in its use of technology, its notions of decentralization of exclusive authorship (this goes into current philosophical thought) etc etc it's understanding of what makes us audially HAPPY , it will only become bigger and bigger (and maybe change us all for the better?) and the politics surrounding it will become complex and harder to grasp.. uh, just some thoughts i've held on the topic for a long time, ever since i started reading comments criticizing how the scene is not what it used to be. The scene (esp. in the east coast) has hit the bottom of the curve and perhaps it needs to be built back up in a new form Ultimately, it's great, wonderful, penetrating, evolving, intelligent MUSIC!! +e

In a message dated 96-10-27 13:49:53 EST, you write: << whereas at any of the commercial event I've been to, all I've come across are mindlessly hepped up kids, still in they're highschool clique mode, who wouldn't know a social cause if they were one... >> Yeah I thought the whole scene was a bit more about having a good time than what I have experienced on more than one occasion at shows or different events. I initially begun to listen to IDM a few years ago because of friends of mine in college. I discovered this delightfully ecclectic genre of music that I had only a slight knowledge of previously. I haven't looked back since. When I first heard about the whole rave scene, I was under the impression that it was all about the music, dancing your ass off and having a good time. I have found quite the opposite is true over the past few years, increasingly I come in contact with a lot of real assholes at shows and clubs. It really takes me by surprise 'cause it's not like a physical confrontation (like the kind you encounter at a manistream place with Steroid-Headz) it's a wierd attitude. Somewhat of a passive aggressive thing I suppose, but then again maybe it's just a New York City thang. Eric

Thanks for your comments everyone. I started a little list of some artists, who have expressed some kind of political or social comments in their work and/or opinions. These are all not directly related to our mailing list, but have been at least a big influence in the world of dance music in one way or another. I wonder if anyone would have some more names to add here? Beatnigs/Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy Gary Clail & On-U Sound Consolidated Alec Empire/Atari Teenage Riot Fun-Da-Mental Meat Beat Manifesto Muslimgauze Orbital Public Enemy Scanner Mark Stewart/Pop Group/Maffia Underground Resistance ekku the maintainer of pHinnWeb - everything u ever wanted to know about Finnish techno scene but were too afraid of the reindeer trerra@uta.fi | http://www.uta.fi/~trerra | http://www.sci.fi/~phinnweb you make your own heaven and hell right here on earth

On Mon, 28 Oct 1996, Erkki Rautio wrote:

quoted 11 lines Thanks for your comments everyone. I

> > Thanks for your comments everyone. I > started a little list of some artists, who > have expressed some kind of political or > social comments in their work and/or opinions. > These are all not directly related to our > mailing list, but have been at least > a big influence in the world of dance music > in one way or another. I wonder if anyone > would have some more names to add here? >

the shamen (some track on axis...) the prodigy (their law) autechre (anti ep) moby (everything is wrong and all beyond) franz.

quoted 4 lines the shamen (some track on axis...)

>the shamen (some track on axis...) >the prodigy (their law) >autechre (anti ep) >moby (everything is wrong and all beyond)

Don't forget the nuclear thing... Kraftwerk "Radio-activity" Various Artists "Mururoa" Johan. ,,, /'~'\ ( 0 0 ) +----------------------------oOOO--(_)--OOOo----------------------------+ Johan Jaatinen Electronic music maker Anika@Info.LiU.SE Oooo. Radio DJ MU WILL RISE AGAIN .oooO ( ) Vegetarian +-----------------------------( )----) /------------------------------+ \ ( (_/ \_)