IDM Mailing Archive

Has anybody else just about reached the end of their rope in tolerating _BAD_ IDM releases? It seems that an absolute flood of them are out now, and while in past times people seemed a bit more candid on the list about them, now it seems when a release gets publicized and people buy it and don't like it, they don't say anything, and so everyone else makes the same mistake of picking it up and not liking it. I'm not suggesting flames, unnecessary slagging, or anything of that sort, I'm just pointing out that if we take time to praise a release for being exceptional (see recent deservedly favorable reviews of Boulderdash) we should also just post quick notes about releases we didn't like so people don't have to just trust five paragraph ramblings on mail order lists (or, as the woman in the video store in Clerks so rightly put it (paraphrase): "They say so much, but they never tell you if it's any good.") After all, we all know how it is to get a huge pile of stuff to find out 50% of it is forgettable (seems to happen to me every month). So, in order to do my part, here's some stuff that's gotten publicity lately that I found either average (or worse). most of the Schematic label releases most of the 20' to 2000 series Num Num: Unknown Sources 10" (Toytronic) Aspen: Are You That Retail Snob? CD (Involve) Gimmik: Random Access 12" (Worm Interface) Quench: A Journey Into Electronix CD (U-Cover) Schlammpeitziger: (long title I forget off-hand) LP (Entenpfuhl) Gamers In Exile: Whippin' Time 7" (Unbearable) - and to think I publicized this one! Iyunx Productions: The Duckie Dirty Bird EP 12" (Isophlux) Alder and Elius: Bionic Vagina 12" (Skam) Don't Dolby: Don't Dolby 05 CD (Gefriem) A. Krause: Schwellwert CD (BMB Labs) Broadcast: Echo's Answer 7" (Warp) Kit Clayton: Repetition and Nonsense CD (Drop Beat) Indio CD (Transmat) And I could go on and on like this (and intend to later). I just would like to encourage more _INTELLIGENT_, yet critical music discussion on this list. I don't want to name names, but I think a lot of the people on here (especially radio show types) are afraid to say anything negative about a record because they know the producers and are either their friend (and don't want to hurt a friend) or don't want to stop getting free promos from the label. This sort of partisan musical criticism is only detrimental, dishonest and damaging. I, for one, am tired of being posed the choice of either missing out on a release and never getting to hear it or having to spend $20 on a gamble. Come on, people. And also, to any producers listed above, many of you (Schlammpeitziger, Aspen, Mike Ink) have very, very good releases out as well, and I would just like to encourage quality control. Take a look at Detroit Escalator Company or Nuron: quality control pays off both in building an authentic fanbase, garnering critical respect, and being remembered in five years. Remember, Markant gets a lot of flack on this list (which I think to some extent is warranted as he is a polarized example of some of the issues in IDM today) but there are a lot of records that get praised on here that are FAR worse than Markant. Matt np Black Dog: Parallel CD (GPR) No Virginia, they don't make much music like this anymore. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Excerpts from mail: 8-Feb-100 (idm) Warnings by AeOtaku@aol.com

quoted 2 lines Aspen: Are You That Retail Snob? CD (Involve)

> Aspen: Are You That Retail Snob? CD (Involve) > Kit Clayton: Repetition and Nonsense CD (Drop Beat)

Whoah there cowboy.... I haven't heard much IDM that I've liked over the last year or so, but man, I have to give Aspen's latest disc top billing! It's so wonderful. The opening track is a bit grating, but after that the rest is the album is.... gah! Just awesome! Soothing, textured, melodious rhythms and harmony.... also, I just got the Kit Clayton record today, and found myself listening to it seven times straight... nice stuff.

quoted 4 lines to encourage more _INTELLIGENT_, yet critical music

> to encourage more _INTELLIGENT_, yet critical music > discussion on this list. I don't want to name names, but > I think a lot of the people on here (especially radio show > types) are afraid to say anything negative about a record...

Eh? Look, it's public knowledge that Pietro is our resident blabbermouth (a friend of mine and I were kidding that IDM press releases these days are so eLiTe, especially those private Suction emails) but you have to take everything on this list with a grain of salt. In my five years of subscribing to this list, people's recommendations have led me to both great records and absolute duds (all those damn Markant twelve inches come to mind). Keep in mind that it takes little more than a CD-R and $500 to start a label..... and there are more than a few enterprising young fellas out there who have suckered my greasy cash for 50 minutes of freeware bleeps. And since Microsoft Word has such a great built-in thesaurus, I'm positive as more press releases flood in, I'll find myself buying more. Aaron np: Amon Tobin sampler (Ninja Tune) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 13 lines I haven't heard much IDM that I've liked over the last

>I haven't heard much IDM that I've liked over the last >year or so, but man, I have to give Aspen's latest disc >top billing! It's so wonderful. The opening track is >a bit grating, but after that the rest is the album >is.... gah! Just awesome! Soothing, textured, melodious >rhythms and harmony.... also, I just got the Kit >Clayton record today, and found myself listening to it >seven times straight... nice stuff. > >> to encourage more _INTELLIGENT_, yet critical music >> discussion on this list. I don't want to name names, but >> I think a lot of the people on here (especially radio show >> types) are afraid to say anything negative about a record...

a perfect example of what "aeotaku" is speaking of in the second paragraph up there is the utterly generic language people use to describe music to other people. it's been hashed over almost as much as "cd vs. vinyl" that reviews and such carry an implied, "this is my opinion," so are we to conclude that your opinion is about as textured and soothing as tapioca pudding? apologies to aaron for sliding into the crosshairs at the wrong moment, because he is far from the most annoying exemplar of the "it's worth it!" school of surrogate purchase-power. "nice stuff?" thanks for the heartfelt (and critical) insight! the fact that you're this >< close to catatonia sure is a convincing argument for value and affection. obidm, i suppose: i listened to isan's "salamander" while home sick yesterday for the first time in a long while, and it's still the worst thing they've ever done. its flat snippets of undeveloped ideas pay so much homage to krautrock's static models of pop, that this album's existence practically casts aspersions on the rest of their catalog (of which i have all, i think, except the warp remix and 'beautronics'). if this is "really what's going on with them," then i suppose i don't have to pay attention to them anymore. <hrvatski>Unfinished.</hrvatski> -- http://www.synthesizer.org/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Just a few minor corrections to make:

quoted 2 lines Keep in mind that it takes little more than a CD-R and

> Keep in mind that it takes little more than a CD-R and > $500 to start a label..... and there are more than a few

And your sanity and free time...

quoted 2 lines enterprising young fellas out there who have suckered my

> enterprising young fellas out there who have suckered my > greasy cash for 50 minutes of freeware bleeps. And since

25 minutes

quoted 3 lines Microsoft Word has such a great built-in thesaurus, I'm

> Microsoft Word has such a great built-in thesaurus, I'm > positive as more press releases flood in, I'll find myself > buying more.

burying more. Speaking of which, I'll have an exciting announcement to share soon. Just as soon as I share it. Maybe after I get something to eat. Well, it's exciting for me, anyway. NP: Akira Soundtrack, Dolls Polyphony --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

hi.im a radio show type. i like all music except country and rap. chris music for lunchpails . wednesdays 6-9pm . kuci 88.9fm . www.kuci.org it.s ok to like noise it.s okay to like house it.s okay to like pop _we are all lost --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

At 05:16 PM 2/8/2000 -0500, you wrote: > >Has anybody else just about reached the end of >their rope in tolerating _BAD_ IDM releases? >t seems that an absolute flood of them are out >ow, and while in past times people seemed a bit >ore candid on the list about them, now it seems >hen a release gets publicized and people buy it >nd don't like it, they don't say anything, and so >veryone else makes the same mistake of picking >up and not liking it. > Matt, settle down... What is bad to some is good to others. At any given time, yes even back in the 'good old days' of idm, you will have just as many people saying "there's nothing but crap out now" as "there are tons of great records out now." I buy a lot of music each month and, yes, i do get a lot of releases I dont like. But instead of spouting off about how "bad" they are, i just dont talk about them because just because I dont like it doesnt mean that it's bad. And the same goes for you too matt. I dont consider it my job to rate releases. Instead what I try to do is mention the handful of releases that I particularly enjoy each month.

quoted 19 lines So, in order to do my part, here's some stuff that's gotten

>So, in order to do my part, here's some stuff that's gotten >publicity lately that I found either average (or worse). > >most of the Schematic label releases >most of the 20' to 2000 series >Num Num: Unknown Sources 10" (Toytronic) >Aspen: Are You That Retail Snob? CD (Involve) >Gimmik: Random Access 12" (Worm Interface) >Quench: A Journey Into Electronix CD (U-Cover) >Schlammpeitziger: (long title I forget off-hand) LP (Entenpfuhl) >Gamers In Exile: Whippin' Time 7" (Unbearable) - and to think I publicized >this one! >Iyunx Productions: The Duckie Dirty Bird EP 12" (Isophlux) >Alder and Elius: Bionic Vagina 12" (Skam) >Don't Dolby: Don't Dolby 05 CD (Gefriem) >A. Krause: Schwellwert CD (BMB Labs) >Broadcast: Echo's Answer 7" (Warp) >Kit Clayton: Repetition and Nonsense CD (Drop Beat) >Indio CD (Transmat)

Well I see our tastes differ because I very much enjoyed the 20 to 2000 series, the aspen, quench, gimmik, schlammpeitziger (which is actually a reissue of a 1993 release), Dont Dolby, A. Krause, and Kit Clayton.

quoted 3 lines And I could go on and on like this (and intend to later). I just would like

>And I could go on and on like this (and intend to later). I just would like >to encourage more _INTELLIGENT_, yet critical music >discussion on this list.

I would be happy with simply more music discussion.

quoted 7 lines I don't want to name names, but

>I don't want to name names, but >I think a lot of the people on here (especially radio show >types) are afraid to say anything negative about a record >because they know the producers and are either their >friend (and don't want to hurt a friend) or don't want to stop >getting free promos from the label. This sort of partisan >musical criticism is only detrimental, dishonest and damaging.

I totally disagree with you on this one. Just because "radio show types" are more connected and/or in tune with the artists/labels doesnt mean that what is being said is tainted and accusations of such activity is far more detrimental, dishonest and damaging to this list.

quoted 3 lines I, for one, am tired of being posed the choice of either missing

>I, for one, am tired of being posed the choice of either missing >out on a release and never getting to hear it or having to spend >$20 on a gamble.

Hey I certainly know about money concerns. I've blown thousands of dollars on "unsuccessful" music gambles but with such a dizzying amount of new electronic artists, labels, and releases coming out each week, it's just just something you have to learn to live with. Since you seem to have a problem with it, I suggest you wait a few weeks before buying new releases to see other aside from us impartial radio types comment on those releases. -->-Lance--- lance@inaudible.com p.o. box 450715 westlake, ohio 44145 united states --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 13 lines I don't want to name names, but

>>I don't want to name names, but >>I think a lot of the people on here (especially radio show >>types) are afraid to say anything negative about a record >>because they know the producers and are either their >>friend (and don't want to hurt a friend) or don't want to stop >>getting free promos from the label. This sort of partisan >>musical criticism is only detrimental, dishonest and damaging. > >I totally disagree with you on this one. Just because "radio >show types" are more connected and/or in tune with the >artists/labels doesnt mean that what is being said is tainted >and accusations of such activity is far more detrimental, >dishonest and damaging to this list.

To add to this... I'm not a "radio show type," but I'm fortunate enough to live in New York. I have forced a handful of producers to begrudgingly become acquaintances of mine and to not totally ignore me if we happen to make eye contact. Even though not everything that all of these people makes is "my thing," I often don't say anything bad about it because I don't think any of it is worth being called bad. The people I know who make music make it according to their own terms--and knowing them may make me more willing to accept this. If I can't approach and appreciate their music on it's own terms, then I cannot call it bad. A soundbite that's stuck with me from college is "Say yes until you absolutely have to say no" (attribute that to Gayatri Spivak, if you need a name-dropping footnote here). So far, I have not absolutely had to say no to anything I've heard. Lumping the 20' to 2000 series, Schlammpeitziger, and Alder and Elius together stretches genre boundaries--terms of appreciation--too much for me to take too seriously any sweeping judgement of all of them. I'm afraid that saying that they are all bad says much more about the person saying that than anything about which it could be said. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

AeOtaku:

quoted 4 lines I'm just pointing out that if we take time to praise

>I'm just pointing out that if we take time to praise >a release for being exceptional (see recent deservedly >favorable reviews of Boulderdash) we should also >just post quick notes about releases we didn't like

back when i used to read CMJ, someone wrote a letter to the editor to the effect of "why do you like all the discs that you review? is there anything you don't like?" and the editor replied that there are plenty of discs that the writers don't like, but that they simply don't review them. there is really no point in devoting time to writing about bad discs, and that the real idea behind a review is to offer a recommendation. i personally avoid opinion in my reviews, for the most part. what is most useful to me when reading a review is *what the music sounds like*, not what some jerk i've never met thinks about the artist's new hairstyle. a review should illustrate the music by noting similar releases/styles, using descriptive words and commenting on the originality/context of the release. needless to say, most reviews i read are pretty worthless, even ones in professional publications. .af. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

although i have to agree that positive reviews far outweigh negative reviews, it may be hard to identify truly bad releases, in that most, if not all members, would agree. we cant agree on what is idm, or what is good idm, so i cant think that bad idm would be easier to define. an example would be that i really like those mike ink releases that most list members find simple and boring. i recall getting burned quite a bit (see markant) and decided to become much less experimental. i generally avoid new/unknown labels/artists until there is significant discussion or parallels drawn to other artists i like. i may be missing out on some gems, but that is better than spending $100 a week for one release you really like and 6 that are ok, or worse. recent good pickups- main st. comp. 21/22 experimental techno comp.- excellent techno out of columbus (todd sines, titoton, etc.) lance has more info. as i think this was discussed on 313 recent not so good pickups- wevie stonder- eat your own ears, unfortunately like the jones machine on rephlex cl --- clietz@enteract.com

quoted 21 lines Has anybody else just about reached the end of

>Has anybody else just about reached the end of >their rope in tolerating _BAD_ IDM releases? >It seems that an absolute flood of them are out >now, and while in past times people seemed a bit >more candid on the list about them, now it seems >when a release gets publicized and people buy > >most of the Schematic label releases >most of the 20' to 2000 series >Num Num: Unknown Sources 10" (Toytronic) >Aspen: Are You That Retail Snob? CD (Involve) >Gimmik: Random Access 12" (Worm Interface) >Quench: A Journey Into Electronix CD (U-Cover) >Schlammpeitziger: (long title I forget off-hand) LP (Entenpfuhl) >Gamers In Exile: Whippin' Time 7" (Unbearable) - and to think I publicized >this one! >Iyunx Productions: The Duckie Dirty Bird EP 12" (Isophlux) >Alder and Elius: Bionic Vagina 12" (Skam) >Don't Dolby: Don't Dolby 05 CD (Gefriem) >A. Krause: Schwellwert CD (BMB Labs) >Broadcast: Echo's Answer 7" (Warp) >Kit Clayton: Repetition and Nonsense CD (Drop Beat)

--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- Share what you know. Learn what you don't. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

At 02:55 PM 2/8/2000 -0800, you wrote:

quoted 4 lines recent good pickups-

>recent good pickups- >main st. comp. >21/22 experimental techno comp.- excellent techno out of columbus (todd sines, >titoton, etc.) lance has more info. as i think this was discussed on 313

Yes that Main Street comp cd is excellent for those how want to hear a housey take on the basic channel sound. Those early Main Street records are true classics. Regarding the 21/22 Corp comp cd, another good release of experimental techno & electro from the excellent columbus, ohio-based 21/22 Corp label. After four excellent volumes of the Trace Element comp 12" as well as eps by Monochrome, Fuzzy Logic, Cron, and Archtype, the 21/22 Corp are releasing a Trace Elements cd called "Ele_ments of Light - the cd compilation." This comp cd will feature several songs each by todd sines, titonton duvante, charles noel, plus contributions from DAC crowell, ihannoa, nu-era, and powerhouse. 21/22 Corp releases are for those who like their techno with an experimental edge. Excellent stuff. -->-Lance--- lance@inaudible.com p.o. box 450715 westlake, ohio 44145 united states --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Matt, Aren't you taking things just a bit too personally now? Including the music? You are entitled to dislike a release but what people say about it are just different reflections. By calling a release BAD in the context you have made, you are subjecting the ultimate personal judgement and imposing that on others by claiming your taste is better than others. Why are you concerned that people buy music that you rate as BAD? The music is a subjective experience - there's no standard criteria in which to judge a release as good or bad. I appreciate your call for a more stringent approach to reviewing music but I disagree with your value judgement on some on the releases you have listed. What I want to know is - did you buy all these releases that you rate as BAD? And if you did then why did you buy them in the first place? and also with your perception of *radio types* - I don't know any of the producers I play, I receive no promos and I have to pay for everything I play. And BTW, I know of some people who consider Black Dog as pretty average music. A_Zed ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Program Co-ordinator, Ambient Zone RTRFM 92.1 [http://rtrfm.ii.net] Sunday Electronic Listening ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Perth, W.Australia (WST) 23.00-01.00 Chicago (CST) 09.00-11.00 London (GMT) 15.00-17.00 Detroit/ Windsor (EST) 10.00-12.00 Frankfurt (CET) 16.00-18.00 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

i remember reading something that showed RDJ's views on the whole "IDM" thing. he says that he is somewhat flattered that he's considered "intelligent" but he also spoke of the effect this would have on other artists. are others' music that is not IDM stupid because it's not electronic? i don't consider myself an IDM elitist for i enjoy all genres of sound but it is food for thought, no? --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 4 lines Matt

> Matt > np Black Dog: Parallel CD (GPR) > No Virginia, they don't make much music like > this anymore.

Mr Thug does - Blat is like a lost track from Bytes. Are we ready for the second wave of wannabe-ism? (Autechre being the current favourite) Probably not, cos BD/Plaid can write a tune, and that is something eluding a lot of people these days. More power to Thug. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 2 lines So, in order to do my part, here's some stuff that's gotten

>So, in order to do my part, here's some stuff that's gotten >publicity lately that I found either average (or worse).

quoted 1 line Iyunx Productions: The Duckie Dirty Bird EP 12" (Isophlux)

>Iyunx Productions: The Duckie Dirty Bird EP 12" (Isophlux)

I think this record falls less in the "bad" category and more in the very solid arena. Meaning it doesn't push boundaries like say, Pole two years ago or Porter Ricks 3 years ago, but instead comes across with the quality of a Plaid release - nothing shocking, but well-crafted. There hasn't been any Yunx (or Iyunx) that I've heard that has disappointed me, but little that has shaken the fibre of my existence, either. And I find that in itself refreshing. Tunes that make me tap my feet and hum along.

quoted 3 lines np Black Dog: Parallel CD (GPR)

>np Black Dog: Parallel CD (GPR) >No Virginia, they don't make much music like >this anymore.

Really? "Some" BDP stuff is truly fantastic and stands out head and shoulders above the crowd (vanttool, aaxmus, VIR2I, Merck, Object Orient) but there is also filler and stuff that hasn't aged as well. I would actually compare them in many ways to Yunx. They both sound somewhat similar with a lot of stellar, if unspectacular tunes. Sorry if I tied all of these performers too closely together, but that's just the way their sounds strike me. Most of the rest of your list I haven't heard. So I guess I'm supposed to be lucky???? ; ) J np: Pixies _Doolittle_ Join The Party @www.cpusa.org ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

In a message dated 2/9/00 2:05:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, danny@arbitrary.com writes: << Lumping the 20' to 2000 series, Schlammpeitziger, and Alder and Elius together stretches genre boundaries--terms of appreciation--too much for me to take too seriously any sweeping judgement of all of them. I'm afraid that saying that they are all bad says much more about the person saying that than anything about which it could be said. >> Really? But when someone lists a long list of releases they find good, as many of us do on the list, that's acceptable? First off, please note I said before that list that I found everything "average (or worse)". Secondly, just because releases are of different genres does not mean they don't share the same qualities of being unoriginal, meandering, or lackluster, just in the same way the positive releases, be they Derrick May or King Tubby, have a certain set of positive qualities, be they innovation, experimentation or just excellent knowledge and utilization of the available resources. People do thesis work that crosses genres as diverse as Shakespeare and homoeroticism or Russian linguistics and Indian dance. Putting together a group of electronic releases (putting them in the same genre of music, whether or not they are further fragmented in subgenres) that share a thread of sterility or of brilliance is entirely warranted. If someone can appreciate work in any of the fields, be they 20' to 2000 style work or the work of John Beltran, they can weave amongst genres. Isn't that what electronic music is all about? Matt --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Take a look at Detroit Escalator Company or Nuron: they don't make much music like this anymore. Man I have been yacking this tune for the longest......One need not be a Bio-chemist to see that! What to do? Make better music ourselves or beg the fck! out of Paul and Steve(Pickton), or shut the fck! up........These seem to be about our only choices..........I do agree with you in many of your comments however. Why just this morning I was listening to Nuron thinking, these cats like Tek-head and Have-it-all(and another by the initials of Jk!) must be putting me on(Blowing me off)........They COULDNT be listening to these guys(Stasis & Nuron)....... With Nuron, reminds me of Miles Davis or Lee Morgan. You know its him when you first hear any of his tracks....The mark of distinction.... For any of you, go back and listen to his remix of Travellor(by Stasis).........U'll see what I mean....U'll See! Hk!

quoted 78 lines -----Original Message-----

> -----Original Message----- > From: AeOtaku@aol.com [SMTP:AeOtaku@aol.com] > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 5:17 PM > To: idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: (idm) Warnings > > Has anybody else just about reached the end of > their rope in tolerating _BAD_ IDM releases? > It seems that an absolute flood of them are out > now, and while in past times people seemed a bit > more candid on the list about them, now it seems > when a release gets publicized and people buy it > and don't like it, they don't say anything, and so > everyone else makes the same mistake of picking > it up and not liking it. I'm not suggesting flames, > unnecessary slagging, or anything of that sort, > I'm just pointing out that if we take time to praise > a release for being exceptional (see recent deservedly > favorable reviews of Boulderdash) we should also > just post quick notes about releases we didn't like > so people don't have to just trust five paragraph > ramblings on mail order lists (or, as the woman in the > video store in Clerks so rightly put it (paraphrase): "They say so > much, but they never tell you if it's any good.") After all, > we all know how it is to get a huge pile of stuff to find out > 50% of it is forgettable (seems to happen to me every month). > So, in order to do my part, here's some stuff that's gotten > publicity lately that I found either average (or worse). > > most of the Schematic label releases > most of the 20' to 2000 series > Num Num: Unknown Sources 10" (Toytronic) > Aspen: Are You That Retail Snob? CD (Involve) > Gimmik: Random Access 12" (Worm Interface) > Quench: A Journey Into Electronix CD (U-Cover) > Schlammpeitziger: (long title I forget off-hand) LP (Entenpfuhl) > Gamers In Exile: Whippin' Time 7" (Unbearable) - and to think I publicized > > this one! > Iyunx Productions: The Duckie Dirty Bird EP 12" (Isophlux) > Alder and Elius: Bionic Vagina 12" (Skam) > Don't Dolby: Don't Dolby 05 CD (Gefriem) > A. Krause: Schwellwert CD (BMB Labs) > Broadcast: Echo's Answer 7" (Warp) > Kit Clayton: Repetition and Nonsense CD (Drop Beat) > Indio CD (Transmat) > > And I could go on and on like this (and intend to later). I just would > like > to encourage more _INTELLIGENT_, yet critical music > discussion on this list. I don't want to name names, but > I think a lot of the people on here (especially radio show > types) are afraid to say anything negative about a record > because they know the producers and are either their > friend (and don't want to hurt a friend) or don't want to stop > getting free promos from the label. This sort of partisan > musical criticism is only detrimental, dishonest and damaging. > I, for one, am tired of being posed the choice of either missing > out on a release and never getting to hear it or having to spend > $20 on a gamble. Come on, people. And also, to any producers > listed above, many of you (Schlammpeitziger, Aspen, Mike Ink) > have very, very good releases out as well, and I would just like to > encourage quality control. Take a look at Detroit Escalator Company > or Nuron: quality control pays off both in building an authentic fanbase, > garnering critical respect, and being remembered in five years. > Remember, Markant gets a lot of flack on this list (which I think to > some extent is warranted as he is a polarized example of some of > the issues in IDM today) but there are a lot of records that get > praised on here that are FAR worse than Markant. > > Matt > np Black Dog: Parallel CD (GPR) > No Virginia, they don't make much music like > this anymore. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

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Yes, but now you have to elaborate. I haven't heard any of these releases at all but I have seen their names floating around and have the same feeling of others' placid acceptance for them that I believe you are expressing. To speak of an album as 'something one _must_ have' is really a disservice. But, now that you have announced your distaste for these releases, how about some discriptions or reasons why (of the ones you haven't talked about already, ofcourse). I would love more honest communication. I only wish I wasn't stuck in a small college in Ohio or I might have more things to say about lesser publicised idm content... actually, now that I think of it I do have an interesting idm related story. I've heard Lesser's name floating around these parts. Well--he played at my college my first year in 1996. I was the sound tech. It is probably one of the more notable shows that I can remember since. He had only a couple of pieces of equipment, like a drum machine, a sampler, a tape deck and a keyboard. He played very abstract tone colors, using themes of found recorded material and well tuned drums. We talked for a while and he actually sent me a post card some week later. I think the sight of snow got to him, tee hee, it always makes me feel a little sentimental. Well, whatever. I don't know if Lesser is actually on this list but if he is (you are) it'd be kind of weird, huh. later days, lee

quoted 1 line AeOtaku@aol.com wrote this on 2/8/00 5:16 PM

>AeOtaku@aol.com wrote this on 2/8/00 5:16 PM

quoted 19 lines So, in order to do my part, here's some stuff that's gotten

>So, in order to do my part, here's some stuff that's gotten >publicity lately that I found either average (or worse). > >most of the Schematic label releases >most of the 20' to 2000 series >Num Num: Unknown Sources 10" (Toytronic) >Aspen: Are You That Retail Snob? CD (Involve) >Gimmik: Random Access 12" (Worm Interface) >Quench: A Journey Into Electronix CD (U-Cover) >Schlammpeitziger: (long title I forget off-hand) LP (Entenpfuhl) >Gamers In Exile: Whippin' Time 7" (Unbearable) - and to think I publicized >this one! >Iyunx Productions: The Duckie Dirty Bird EP 12" (Isophlux) >Alder and Elius: Bionic Vagina 12" (Skam) >Don't Dolby: Don't Dolby 05 CD (Gefriem) >A. Krause: Schwellwert CD (BMB Labs) >Broadcast: Echo's Answer 7" (Warp) >Kit Clayton: Repetition and Nonsense CD (Drop Beat) >Indio CD (Transmat)

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Matt, welcome to the "Sick of hype" IDM club :) I totally agree with you. There are far too many people that aren't critical enough or are afraid to be honest about the quality of a release. You will often get flamed if you diss a release by a favored IDM artists, even if the release sucks...because of some hero worship issue or insecurity. As Lance, pointed out...what some people will think is crap others will love. That's fine and dandy, but that doesn't mean people should feel obligated to be silent. I think we should discuss the music for what we like about it and dislike. People on this list should be "INTELLIGENT" enough to handle different opinions and not get flamed for being honest. Note: The use of "intelligent" is not refering to music, but rather to the faculty of thought or reason. PS - The Indio cd isn't that good? --- AeOtaku@aol.com wrote:

quoted 95 lines Has anybody else just about reached the end of

> Has anybody else just about reached the end of > their rope in tolerating _BAD_ IDM releases? > It seems that an absolute flood of them are out > now, and while in past times people seemed a bit > more candid on the list about them, now it seems > when a release gets publicized and people buy it > and don't like it, they don't say anything, and so > everyone else makes the same mistake of picking > it up and not liking it. I'm not suggesting flames, > unnecessary slagging, or anything of that sort, > I'm just pointing out that if we take time to praise > a release for being exceptional (see recent > deservedly > favorable reviews of Boulderdash) we should also > just post quick notes about releases we didn't like > so people don't have to just trust five paragraph > ramblings on mail order lists (or, as the woman in > the > video store in Clerks so rightly put it > (paraphrase): "They say so > much, but they never tell you if it's any good.") > After all, > we all know how it is to get a huge pile of stuff to > find out > 50% of it is forgettable (seems to happen to me > every month). > So, in order to do my part, here's some stuff that's > gotten > publicity lately that I found either average (or > worse). > > most of the Schematic label releases > most of the 20' to 2000 series > Num Num: Unknown Sources 10" (Toytronic) > Aspen: Are You That Retail Snob? CD (Involve) > Gimmik: Random Access 12" (Worm Interface) > Quench: A Journey Into Electronix CD (U-Cover) > Schlammpeitziger: (long title I forget off-hand) LP > (Entenpfuhl) > Gamers In Exile: Whippin' Time 7" (Unbearable) - and > to think I publicized > this one! > Iyunx Productions: The Duckie Dirty Bird EP 12" > (Isophlux) > Alder and Elius: Bionic Vagina 12" (Skam) > Don't Dolby: Don't Dolby 05 CD (Gefriem) > A. Krause: Schwellwert CD (BMB Labs) > Broadcast: Echo's Answer 7" (Warp) > Kit Clayton: Repetition and Nonsense CD (Drop Beat) > Indio CD (Transmat) > > And I could go on and on like this (and intend to > later). I just would like > to encourage more _INTELLIGENT_, yet critical music > discussion on this list. I don't want to name names, > but > I think a lot of the people on here (especially > radio show > types) are afraid to say anything negative about a > record > because they know the producers and are either their > friend (and don't want to hurt a friend) or don't > want to stop > getting free promos from the label. This sort of > partisan > musical criticism is only detrimental, dishonest and > damaging. > I, for one, am tired of being posed the choice of > either missing > out on a release and never getting to hear it or > having to spend > $20 on a gamble. Come on, people. And also, to any > producers > listed above, many of you (Schlammpeitziger, Aspen, > Mike Ink) > have very, very good releases out as well, and I > would just like to > encourage quality control. Take a look at Detroit > Escalator Company > or Nuron: quality control pays off both in building > an authentic fanbase, > garnering critical respect, and being remembered in > five years. > Remember, Markant gets a lot of flack on this list > (which I think to > some extent is warranted as he is a polarized > example of some of > the issues in IDM today) but there are a lot of > records that get > praised on here that are FAR worse than Markant. > > Matt > np Black Dog: Parallel CD (GPR) > No Virginia, they don't make much music like > this anymore.

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quoted 1 line ===== Original Message From William Samuels <w_technoir@yahoo.com> =====

>===== Original Message From William Samuels <w_technoir@yahoo.com> =====

quoted 6 lines As Lance, pointed out...what some people will think is

>As Lance, pointed out...what some people will think is >crap others will love. That's fine and dandy, but that >doesn't mean people should feel obligated to be >silent. >I think we should discuss the music for what we like >about it and dislike.

Yeah, definitely. The thing I don't understand is what is wrong with saying you think something's bad if everything is all relative. It doesn't invalidate your opinion or make it meaningless. Matt made it clear he's not talking about flaming releases - just being honest about what you dislike. As I've already said, I'm all for it. Michael -+- Jet Jaguar MP3s http://mp3.com/jetjag/ -+- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Aaron S Michelson <asm2+@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:

quoted 5 lines Eh? Look, it's public knowledge that Pietro is our resident

>>Eh? Look, it's public knowledge that Pietro is our resident >>blabbermouth (a friend of mine and I were kidding that IDM >>press releases these days are so eLiTe, especially those >>private Suction emails) but you have to take everything on >>this list with a grain of salt.

Hello Aaron. Just to let you know.. i sent a public apology shortly after my post to the idm-list regarding the Suction emailer. I admit that i was quick on the trigger when i didn't read the opening lines, but to call me a "resident blabbermouth" is harsh, don't you think? Thanks anyway.. Pietro. ___________________________________________ p i e t r o d a s a c c o a u d i o - n i m b u s c j a m 91.5 fm saturdays from midnight - 2am EST 9745 lynngrove cr, windsor, ontario, n8r 1b8, canada g r o o v e s m a g a z i n e www.groovesmag.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org