IDM Mailing Archive

1996-08-07 17:02Per Christian FrankpladsJon Drukman <jsd@cyborganic.com>: > mixing on headphones is one of the worst ways to mix..

From:: Per Christian Frankplads <percf@notam.uio.no>
To:: IDM <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 18:02:54 +0100
Subject:: (idm) In the mix/Orb + Black Dog in mono/Luke Slater

Jon Drukman <jsd@cyborganic.com>:

quoted 3 lines mixing on headphones is one of the worst ways to mix... crap speakers

> mixing on headphones is one of the worst ways to mix... crap speakers > will lead to crap mixes... i finally bought a bargain basement set of > studio monitors last year and the difference was like night and day.

Agreed. You have absolutely no control of what will come out of a couple of speakers when you mix with a headset. Buy a pair of decent studio monitors or move, Mark. And have anybody else discovered this: "Auntie Aubrey's..." and "Music for adverts..." are, it seems, in mono? I can't make out a single stereo track on either of them! No panning at all. Anybody else noticed this? I have the promo versions of both discs, that may explain something. Re: Luke Slater, the last thing I got from him was a remix of Alter Ego on Harthouse. ("Luke Slater & The 2 Lone Swordsmen decode the hacker myth".) Completely non-relevant: Why can't I never seem to be able to unsvbscribe from you guys? You write too much and take up too much of my 'precious' time, yet I can't send that one final mail. Hm. Per Christian Frankplads (ADDRESS) Bogstadveien 34 - N-0366 OSLO - Norway (PHONE) +47-22463422 (FAX) +47-22172598 (E-MAIL) pcf@pobox.com (PAGER) +47-96764780

1996-08-07 19:26pH> > mixing on headphones is one of the worst ways to mix... crap speakers > > will lead to

From:: pH <heninger@phoenix.Princeton.EDU>
To:: <pcf@pobox.com>
Cc:: IDM <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 15:26:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject:: Re: (idm) In the mix/Orb + Black Dog in mono/Luke Slater
Reply to:: (idm) In the mix/Orb + Black Dog in mono/Luke Slater

quoted 7 lines mixing on headphones is one of the worst ways to mix... crap speakers

> > mixing on headphones is one of the worst ways to mix... crap speakers > > will lead to crap mixes... i finally bought a bargain basement set of > > studio monitors last year and the difference was like night and day. > > Agreed. You have absolutely no control of what will come out of a couple > of speakers when you mix with a headset. Buy a pair of decent studio > monitors or move, Mark.

At the same time it's not a bad idea to play something through a set of mediocre stereo speakers before mastering especially in the case of something more in the idm vein. paul.

1996-08-15 11:31CheOn Wed, 7 Aug 1996, Per Christian Frankplads wrote: > Jon Drukman <jsd@cyborganic.com>: >

From:: Che <zeus8@synthcom.com>
To:: IDM <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 11:31:38 +0000 ()
Subject:: Re: (idm) In the mix/Orb + Black Dog in mono/Luke Slater
Reply to:: (idm) In the mix/Orb + Black Dog in mono/Luke Slater

On Wed, 7 Aug 1996, Per Christian Frankplads wrote:

quoted 9 lines Jon Drukman <jsd@cyborganic.com>:

> Jon Drukman <jsd@cyborganic.com>: > > > mixing on headphones is one of the worst ways to mix... crap speakers > > will lead to crap mixes... i finally bought a bargain basement set of > > studio monitors last year and the difference was like night and day. > > Agreed. You have absolutely no control of what will come out of a couple > of speakers when you mix with a headset. Buy a pair of decent studio > monitors or move, Mark.

Bollocks! I've got friends who get great mixes on crap equipment. One uses $15 Sony headphones and a 15" Fender bassbin. The other uses $50 Koss headphones and a $50 boombox. One of these guys is on Strictly Rhythm. Some people know how to mix and some don't. If you know how to mix and cann make stuff sound good on crap equipment then it will sound good on any equipment. If you don't know how to mix then $1000 worth of speakers won't help.

quoted 4 lines And have anybody else discovered this: "Auntie Aubrey's..." and "Music

> And have anybody else discovered this: "Auntie Aubrey's..." and "Music for > adverts..." are, it seems, in mono? I can't make out a single stereo track > on either of them! No panning at all. Anybody else noticed this? I have > the promo versions of both discs, that may explain something.

Are we talking CD? This sucks. Che

1996-08-15 21:33Mark KolmarThe big problem mixing to headphones is it can be very easy to overdo the bass because you

From:: Mark Kolmar <mkolmar@xnet.com>
To:: Che <zeus8@synthcom.com>
Cc:: IDM <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 16:33:16 -0500 (CDT)
Subject:: Re: (idm) In the mix
Reply to:: Re: (idm) In the mix/Orb + Black Dog in mono/Luke Slater

The big problem mixing to headphones is it can be very easy to overdo the bass because you don't get the same tactile feedback as with speakers. I strongly advise comparing the mix on two or more sets of headphones, good speakers when possible, and crap speakers as well. The problem with good speakers is they may show no sign of strain, when the same signal on OK speakers might be more than they can handle gracefully (or at all, for that matter). It's also possible to become so familiar with what you are hearing on your headphones that you can accurately guage what will happen on the way to the speakers. As Che say, some people know how to make a mix, some don't. Creating a groove and creating a tight mix are two different skills. --Mark __ http://www.xnet.com/~mkolmar/BurningRome "Two people making same kind of music is one music too many." -- John Cage On Thu, 15 Aug 1996, Che wrote:

quoted 16 lines On Wed, 7 Aug 1996, Per Christian Frankplads wrote:

> On Wed, 7 Aug 1996, Per Christian Frankplads wrote: > > Jon Drukman <jsd@cyborganic.com>: > > > mixing on headphones is one of the worst ways to mix... crap speakers > > > will lead to crap mixes... i finally bought a bargain basement set of > > > studio monitors last year and the difference was like night and day. > > Agreed. You have absolutely no control of what will come out of a couple > > of speakers when you mix with a headset. Buy a pair of decent studio > > monitors or move, Mark. > Bollocks! I've got friends who get great mixes on crap equipment. One > uses $15 Sony headphones and a 15" Fender bassbin. The other uses $50 > Koss headphones and a $50 boombox. One of these guys is on Strictly Rhythm. > > Some people know how to mix and some don't. If you know how to mix and > cann make stuff sound good on crap equipment then it will sound good on > any equipment. If you don't know how to mix then $1000 worth of speakers > won't help.

1996-08-15 20:15Daniel BarassiChe <zeus8@synthcom.com> typed: > Agreed. You have absolutely no control of what will come

From:: Daniel Barassi <bratmix@netcom.com>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.com>, <zeus8@synthcom.com>
Date:: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 13:15:39 -0700
Subject:: Re: (idm) In the mix/Orb + Black Dog in mono/Luke Slater

Che <zeus8@synthcom.com> typed:

quoted 3 lines Agreed. You have absolutely no control of what will come out of a couple

> Agreed. You have absolutely no control of what will come out of a couple > of speakers when you mix with a headset. Buy a pair of decent studio > monitors or move, Mark.

Bollocks! I've got friends who get great mixes on crap equipment. One uses $15 Sony headphones and a 15" Fender bassbin. The other uses $50 Koss headphones and a $50 boombox. One of these guys is on Strictly Rhythm. ----->>I agree. I've used $15 Sony headphones for a while. It's easier to hear the music. Also, it works easier (for me, at least) for the detailed editing I do. Che <zeus8@synthcom.com> also typed:

quoted 4 lines And have anybody else discovered this: "Auntie Aubrey's..." and "Music

Are we talking CD? This sucks. ----->>Yes, the CD. I threw the recording "out-of-phase", and it practically went away (typical of a mono recording). Neat trick to do on Orb tracks is to throw them out of phase. I put the "Higher Than The Orb" remix of Primal Screams' "Higher Than The Sun" (taken from the original CD single, not the mono comp.) out of phase, and it went almost completely acapella, with some nice background effects. ...just thought I'd share. :) BRAT bratmix@netcom.com http://commline.com/~bratmix/

1996-08-15 21:09Jeff GageOn Thu, 15 Aug 1996, Daniel Barassi wrote: > ----->>Yes, the CD. I threw the recording "ou

From:: Jeff Gage <j-gerard@uiuc.edu>
To:: Daniel Barassi <bratmix@netcom.com>
Cc:: <idm@hyperreal.com>, <zeus8@synthcom.com>
Date:: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 16:09:48 -0500 (CDT)
Subject:: Re: (idm) In the mix/Orb + Black Dog in mono/Luke Slater
Reply to:: Re: (idm) In the mix/Orb + Black Dog in mono/Luke Slater

On Thu, 15 Aug 1996, Daniel Barassi wrote:

quoted 6 lines ----->>Yes, the CD. I threw the recording "out-of-phase", and it

> ----->>Yes, the CD. I threw the recording "out-of-phase", and it > practically went away (typical of a mono recording). Neat trick to do > on Orb tracks is to throw them out of phase. I put the "Higher Than The > Orb" remix of Primal Screams' "Higher Than The Sun" (taken from the > original CD single, not the mono comp.) out of phase, and it went almost > completely acapella, with some nice background effects.

Neh? How does one throw something "out-of-phase"? -j ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Jeffrey D.Gerard (Jeff Gage) http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/j-gerard/ mailto:j-gerard@uiuc.edu (personal) voicephone://217-344-3957 mailto:j-gerard@ncsa.uiuc.edu (business) pager://217-xxx-xxxx ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

1996-08-15 21:46C. DesmariasOn Thu, 15 Aug 1996, Jeff Gage wrote: > On Thu, 15 Aug 1996, Daniel Barassi wrote: > > > -

From:: C. Desmarias <cid@u.washington.edu>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 14:46:51 -0700 (PDT)
Subject:: Re: (idm) In the mix/Orb + Black Dog in mono/Luke Slater
Reply to:: Re: (idm) In the mix/Orb + Black Dog in mono/Luke Slater

On Thu, 15 Aug 1996, Jeff Gage wrote:

quoted 10 lines On Thu, 15 Aug 1996, Daniel Barassi wrote:

> On Thu, 15 Aug 1996, Daniel Barassi wrote: > > > ----->>Yes, the CD. I threw the recording "out-of-phase", and it > > practically went away (typical of a mono recording). Neat trick to do > > on Orb tracks is to throw them out of phase. I put the "Higher Than The > > Orb" remix of Primal Screams' "Higher Than The Sun" (taken from the > > original CD single, not the mono comp.) out of phase, and it went almost > > completely acapella, with some nice background effects. > > Neh? How does one throw something "out-of-phase"?

If you have separate surround sound speaker outs, unhook the regular set and leave just the surround plugged in to get really interesting reconstructions of all your favourite tracks. I think that's how surround works.. the processor reads the 'out of phase' parts of the track and sends that signal out to the surround speakers. I can't wait to get my stereo back & try this with the TPower cd.. Cid.

1996-08-15 22:26Jon DrukmanAt 4:09 PM -0500 8/15/96, Jeff Gage wrote: >Neh? How does one throw something "out-of-phas

From:: Jon Drukman <jsd@cyborganic.com>
To:: Intensely Dull Music <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 15:26:11 -0700
Subject:: Re: (idm) In the mix/Orb + Black Dog in mono/Luke Slater
Reply to:: Re: (idm) In the mix/Orb + Black Dog in mono/Luke Slater

At 4:09 PM -0500 8/15/96, Jeff Gage wrote:

quoted 1 line Neh? How does one throw something "out-of-phase"?

>Neh? How does one throw something "out-of-phase"?

pan both channels to the center and reverse the phase on one of them. you mean your mixer doesn't let you control a signal's phase? well, get with the '90s man! i have a scene stored in my yamaha promix that does this trick to whatever i'm listening to. sometimes tracks turn into a capellas, or purely instrumentals, or just weird washes of reverbed noise. depends on how it was mixed. basically you lose everything that's centered. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jon Drukman jsd@cyborganic.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------

1996-08-16 00:43Daniel Barassij-gerard@uiuc.edu typed: Neh? How does one throw something "out-of-phase"? ----->>My Mac h

From:: Daniel Barassi <bratmix@netcom.com>
To:: <bratmix@netcom.com>, <j-gerard@uiuc.edu>
Cc:: <idm@hyperreal.com>, <zeus8@synthcom.com>
Date:: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 17:43:21 -0700
Subject:: Re: (idm) In the mix/Orb + Black Dog in mono/Luke Slater

j-gerard@uiuc.edu typed: Neh? How does one throw something "out-of-phase"? ----->>My Mac has a program that does the process through my Audiomedia II Card (Digidesign). It's also similar to the concept of surround sound. You can also mess with your speakers and get the same effect. BRAT http://commline.com/~bratmix/

1996-08-16 12:26Maarten D. Schermer>> Neh? How does one throw something "out-of-phase"? > >If you have separate surround soun

From:: Maarten D. Schermer <slavlab@xs4all.nl>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 12:26:44 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject:: Re: (idm) In the mix/Orb + Black Dog in mono/Luke Slater

quoted 7 lines Neh? How does one throw something "out-of-phase"?

>> Neh? How does one throw something "out-of-phase"? > >If you have separate surround sound speaker outs, unhook the regular set >and leave just the surround plugged in to get really interesting >reconstructions of all your favourite tracks. I think that's how surround >works.. the processor reads the 'out of phase' parts of the track and >sends that signal out to the surround speakers. I can't wait to get my

I think something similar happens when you do the following: connect the + from one channel of the source (CD player) to the + of both channels of the line-in on your amplifier, and the + from the other channel of the source to the - of both channels of the line-in. Leave the - from both the L and R channel on the source unconnected. The signals are sort of subtracted, and most of the time, only the more spatial sounds remain. With Skinny Puppy's "Dig It" nearly nothing remains but the guitar. Dunno if this could damage your equipment - mine still works, but you have been warned. Maarten

1996-08-16 19:44DVAgent@aol.comIn a message dated 96-08-15 17:11:15 EDT, j-gerard@uiuc.edu (Jeff Gage) writes: << Neh? Ho

From:: <DVAgent@aol.com>
To:: <idm@hyperreal.com>
Date:: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 15:44:07 -0400
Subject:: Re: (idm) In the mix/Orb + Black Dog in mono/Luke Slater

In a message dated 96-08-15 17:11:15 EDT, j-gerard@uiuc.edu (Jeff Gage) writes: << Neh? How does one throw something "out-of-phase"? >> you can simply reach around to the back of your cd player and pull out your rca-jacks half-way. keep the last little ring on the jack from connecting (the ground i think.) i am not sure why this works, but it does. i was so enthralled with the new sound i was getting from meat beat's SS, that i spent the whole day listening to various cds in this mode. eric

(idm) In the mix/Orb + Black Dog in mono/Luke Slater