IDM Mailing Archive

Is it living in the UK that make me put apsolutely no emphasis on MTV or what? I remember hearing Jello Biafra Shouting 'MTV get off the MTV get off the MTV get off the air'. At this point i hadn't actually seen MTV, and i still haven't watched more than a couple of minutes of it in total now. Living in the UK, i realise that satelite TV has been growing and so has Cable, but i only know a couple of people who are hooked up, and no one i know watches MTV even if they've got satelite. However people have told me that in the US it's a much bigger deal, i'm going on other peoples words now and from what i've heard on the list so far it seems to go along with the conception. Anyway, i feel that Robert Miles etc... are Likely to be a fashion. Trance has been around for ages, and Robert Miles happened to become commercially acceptable. I don't think that this is likely to trigger MTV to be showing Autechre vids at prime-time MTV slots alongside the Jackons etc.. of this world. As for drum'n'Bass, well Alex Reece's latest is sure to become a chart-type affair (IMO), and i wouldn't be surprised if it turns up prime-time at all. However most Drum'n'Bass is white-labels/ 1,000 copies run off by small shops and minor labels, most of which can't afford to make a video even if they wanted to. the only way the Underground of drum'n'Bass/Techno could ever make it on MTV at all is if either a) They had a DJ hour, but i think the visuals of watching someone between two/three decks moving a crossfader isn't really what they'd have in mind, unless it was a club hour with shots of dancing/crowds and dj's etc.. or b) they actually made videos for the tracks in which case they'd have to shell out a whole load of money. Photek, mu-siq, alex reece have all signed major label contracts, and therefore are similarily likely that they'll appear on MTV at some stage, but i'm assuming here that if you care about music you don't actually care about MTV, and will judge the music rather than the airplay it gets. Nick.

quoted 2 lines Is it living in the UK that make me put apsolutely no emphasis on MTV or

> Is it living in the UK that make me put apsolutely no emphasis on MTV or > what?

I think most of us Stateside wouldn't give two fucks about MTV if not for the fact that many of us remember when it was actually worth a damn. I'm bugged that you don't see IDM videos on MTV (US), but that's because I want to *see* them, not because MTV airplay would "legitimize" the artists somehow. Maybe that's just me, but... -- ::: Lazlo (lazlo@swcp.com; http://www.swcp.com/lazlo)

Zenon M. Feszczak wrote on Wed, 10 Jul 96 17:46:22 BST : <...I have no need to repeat any of this...> boy that was quite a rant. And you are soooooo right. The best policy regarding television (all television) is to ignore it. Just enjoy life and music. Fuck corporatism. Fuck mindshaping. Fuck TV. hey, I had a hard day right? :) J ^ __________ ________.__/_____ _||_/ James Skilton aka Steady J _[]/_____________[.__\____-_ DJ and Party Animal | Ae discog on-line now! | Part Time Hedonist |____________________________| Full Time Technohead |__|-' '-|__| Steady-J@Firefox.co.uk http://subnet.virtual-pc.com/~sk393820/

On Wed, 10 Jul 1996, Lazlo Nibble wrote:

quoted 5 lines Is it living in the UK that make me put apsolutely no emphasis on MTV or

> > Is it living in the UK that make me put apsolutely no emphasis on MTV or > > what? > > I think most of us Stateside wouldn't give two fucks about MTV if not for > the fact that many of us remember when it was actually worth a damn.

I don't want to give them more credibility than they're due -- the fact is that their music programming sucks by design. They do have tremendous power to lead public taste. If they, of a sudden, decided that Glenn Underground was the dogs bollocks, and Glenn somehow produced a visually entertaining video, I've no doubt that GU would be on the mainstage of Lollapalooza next year instead of Metallica. Don't believe me? They broke They Might Be Giants, which are as resolutely weird and uncommercial an act as you're likely to find. They liked the video for 'Ana Ng' and the rest was history. But you really need to understand how and why they program what they do. They sell ads. Everything else is incidental. To the extent that anything creative or interesting ends up on the air, it's because it either furthers that goal, or doesn't detract from it. They are definitely aiming at a demographic group OTHER than the average IDM reader, so don't expect to have many bones thrown your way. When my 11 year old son starts calling in and asking for Autechre videos, THAT's when Autechre videos will show up on MTV. Anyway, bitching about it doesn't do any good. Just enjoy the good stuff (the animation programs, the weird MTV promos) and leave the rest. As far as I'm concerned it's just another channel to surf through late at night. --------------------------------------------------------------------- "I read Keyboard, but it's like staring at a book with pictures of simple looking but expensive machines." -- Michael Lazarev NEW CD Comp Electronic Music Project http://soli.inav.net/~kent/emp.html Kent Williams kent@inav.net CADSI 2651 Crosspark Road Coralville IA 52241 (319) 338 6053 (home) (319) 626 6700 x 219 (work) (319) 626 3489 (fax)

We must realize that MTV is a business, and it is in the best interests of a business to become as profitable as possible. Right now, MTV seems to be doing right well for itself, despite (or perhaps because of) the fact that it is full of crap programming that seems to be geared exclusively to the lowest common denominator. I try not to watch it, but it can be entertaining if only for the fact that the fast-moving, constantly changing barrage of auditory and visual stimuli somewhat mimics a drug-induced state of consciousness (perhaps the real key to its success). It seems that everybody out there hates MTV for one reason or another, but I don't think that MTV is there to play videos that you like, it is there, really, just to make money. Thus, we should respect it for that, since it is doing such a good job. Perhaps someday us IDM people can get a bunch of IDM videos together and have a film-fest. You can even use my friend's estate, if you wish. I think that would be closer to what you are all looking for anyway, n'est ce pas? Us np>>SAW2disc1>Aphex nr>>The Internet Directory>.net

quoted 3 lines We must realize that MTV is a business, and it is in the best interests of

>We must realize that MTV is a business, and it is in the best interests of >a business to become as profitable as possible. Right now, MTV seems to be >doing right well for itself...

... and this brings us right back into the fray of the art/commerce debate and debacle. Your explanation above is exactly the basis for my contempt of MTV - and contempt for the business-for-its-own-sake mentality. In my view, commerce should be the slave to art, not vice versa. That requires a strange implicit agreement on the part of both the business and the consumer. The business should refuse to produce bad art, and the consumer should refuse to be audience to bad art. Demand your right to good art and music! Send just one dollar to my sampler fund! Oh, sorry. In a more conservative statement: A business should not exist for the sole purpose of profit. A business should exist predominantly to fulfill its function, and profit should only be of concern in that it allows the continued fulfillment of that function. Idealistic, yes. I believe this is attainable in a hybrid form in the real world, however. But it's a hard road, and that's why the Sex Pistols now do car advert music and the Rolling Stones played prostitute for Bill Gates. In the case of MTV... if the sole function is entertainment, then MTV is fulfilling that function for many people. At least if one defines "entertainment" as pushing an audience's easiest buttons, and no need to mention where these are located. I would not even define entertainment so narrowly as pandering, but to go beyond that... MTV is so bitterly disappointing because its initial self-ordained (and at times even fulfilled) mission was to set and define new trends and ideas, to challenge its audience with something new, creative, vibrant, unpredictable - and yes, intelligent. Now MTV simply degenerates into eye-candy (more like eye-fist) self-parody. But I'll give the new channel a shot. I hope that MTV can re-create itself in a new and vital form, like the Phoenix rising from the smoldering embers of normalcy, complacency, and those damn flyers I keep finding under my windshield wiper-blades. We can get into some deep waters here: Should art (music, in this case) aim to elevate? Should art (music) communicate moral values? (A little trick question, which you'll catch if you've taken your caffeine dose). Can art (music) communicate moral values? (correct answer is "yes", "no", or "maybe", or "huh?", depending how you define "moral values".) Is there such a thing as an immoral value? Probably topics better left to the Phil-Lit or Musical Aesthetics lists, so I'll leave off now. Zenon M. Feszczak Philosopher ex nihilo

At 01:43 PM 7/10/96 -0700, Sugatis & Co wrote:

quoted 1 line You can even use my friend's estate, if you wish.

>You can even use my friend's estate, if you wish.

What the hell are we waiting for? Pass that over to the idm-planners list! Teep

All you MTV nay-sayers (me included)... Keep your eyes out for AMP, the pilot of MTV's new electronic music video show, coming soon. I've seen the off-line version of the pilot and, it's pretty darn good. It's an hour long (with commercial breaks) and the pilot shows videos from Sun Electric, Autechre, Underworld, Ken Ishii (yes, the Manga video!), FSOL, Spacetime Continuum, Chemical Brothers, and others. There is hope, IDM'ers! But we have to support it... (Don't ask me when it's airing or any other details, because I don't have any. As soon as I know something, I'll let you know.) Peter Wohelski Astralwerks

quoted 4 lines I've seen the off-line version of the pilot and, it's pretty darn good. It'

>I've seen the off-line version of the pilot and, it's pretty darn good. It's >an hour long (with commercial breaks) and the pilot shows videos from Sun >Electric, Autechre, Underworld, Ken Ishii (yes, the Manga video!), FSOL, >Spacetime Continuum, Chemical Brothers, and others.

Somebody PLEASE tape this for me :) q "The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible." Clarke's Second Law

NAW@inform.demon.co.uk wrote:

quoted 5 lines James Skilton wrote on Wed, 10 Jul 96 18:12:12 +0100(BST)

> > James Skilton wrote on Wed, 10 Jul 96 18:12:12 +0100(BST) > > > The best policy regarding television (all television) is to ignore it. > > Just enjoy life and music. Fuck corporatism. Fuck mindshaping. Fuck TV.

unfortunately...its almost impossible to do either without corporatism (dunno about mindshaping or tv) anyone know anyone with their own rekkid pressing gear and can print rekkids for...hmmm...sumthin cheap...how about free??????? one day maybe ;)

quoted 5 lines amen! i so totally agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

> amen! i so totally agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > puts me in mind of The Tubes' Telecide > > Nikad

now thats a funny show peace. bill.e .com communications http://www.islandnet.com/~solo/

James Skilton wrote on Wed, 10 Jul 96 18:12:12 +0100(BST)

quoted 2 lines The best policy regarding television (all television) is to ignore it.

> The best policy regarding television (all television) is to ignore it. > Just enjoy life and music. Fuck corporatism. Fuck mindshaping. Fuck TV.

amen! i so totally agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! puts me in mind of The Tubes' Telecide Nikad

quoted 15 lines From: AWerks2@aol.com

> From: AWerks2@aol.com > Date: Wed, 10 Jul 1996 20:04:38 -0400 > Subject: Re: (idm) MTV.... > > All you MTV nay-sayers (me included)... > > Keep your eyes out for AMP, the pilot of MTV's new electronic music video > show, coming soon. > > I've seen the off-line version of the pilot and, it's pretty darn good. It's > an hour long (with commercial breaks) and the pilot shows videos from Sun > Electric, Autechre, Underworld, Ken Ishii (yes, the Manga video!), FSOL, > Spacetime Continuum, Chemical Brothers, and others. > > There is hope, IDM'ers! But we have to support it...

If this does end up on TV, could somebody please tape it so that those of us up North, who don't get MTV, can see it? I'd hate to miss these videos..

quoted 6 lines NAW@inform.demon.co.uk wrote:

>NAW@inform.demon.co.uk wrote: >> >> James Skilton wrote on Wed, 10 Jul 96 18:12:12 +0100(BST) >> >> > The best policy regarding television (all television) is to ignore it. >> > Just enjoy life and music. Fuck corporatism. Fuck mindshaping. Fuck TV.

and then bill replied...

quoted 8 lines unfortunately...its almost impossible to do either without corporatism

>unfortunately...its almost impossible to do either without corporatism >(dunno about >mindshaping or tv) > >anyone know anyone with their own rekkid pressing gear and can print rekkids >for...hmmm...sumthin cheap...how about free??????? > >one day maybe ;)

Ummmm, actually bill, I happen to know the whereabouts of where a new rekkid pressin plants gonna be...actually its pretty close to your neighborhood.... seek wisdom in the tao and you may find clarity....q "The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible." Clarke's Second Law

quoted 17 lines NAW@inform.demon.co.uk wrote:

> >NAW@inform.demon.co.uk wrote: > >> > >> James Skilton wrote on Wed, 10 Jul 96 18:12:12 +0100(BST) > >> > >> > The best policy regarding television (all television) is to ignore it. > >> > Just enjoy life and music. Fuck corporatism. Fuck mindshaping. Fuck TV. > > and then bill replied... > > >unfortunately...its almost impossible to do either without corporatism > >(dunno about > >mindshaping or tv) > > > >anyone know anyone with their own rekkid pressing gear and can print rekkids > >for...hmmm...sumthin cheap...how about free??????? > > > >one day maybe ;)

then quentin eloquently wrote...

quoted 4 lines Ummmm, actually bill, I happen to know the whereabouts of where a new

> Ummmm, actually bill, I happen to know the whereabouts of where a new > rekkid pressin plants gonna be...actually its pretty close to your > neighborhood.... > seek wisdom in the tao and you may find clarity....q

UGH!!! :) hi q peace bill.e .com communications http://www.islandnet.com/~solo/