IDM Mailing Archive

But the new D'Angelo album, "Voodoo," is flat-out fucking amazing. I'd never heard this guy before, but got turned on to him thanks to Sunday's New York Times review, heralding him as this kind of oppositional, "alternative" R&B artist. Anyone who loves deep old soul, Al Green, Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, Prince, just HAS to pick this shit up. Impeccably produced -- all the more so in that doesn't sound studio-polished the way most commercial R&B does. Glorious. Philip Sherburne Senior Editor, Technology Ask Jeeves 5858 Horton Street Emeryville, CA 94608 510-985-7885 "If a question can be put at all, then it can also be answered." -Ludwig Wittgenstein --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 1 line But the new D'Angelo album, "Voodoo," is flat-out fucking amazing.

> But the new D'Angelo album, "Voodoo," is flat-out fucking amazing.

I'd say the production is surprisingly *on* topic. Check out http://www.okayplayer.com/dangelo/interface.htm -- this *really* nice loop starts up as soon as you hit the website... .John. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Yeah, and now that I notice it, there's some really interesting electronic effects going on in "Devil's Pie" (let us not forget that DJ Premier co-produced that track). *Almost* on an IDM-y tip. Question re: Premiere -- has he ever done his own album, or just productions for other folks? He did all Jeru's work, right?

quoted 14 lines -----Original Message-----

> -----Original Message----- > From: John Bush [SMTP:johbus@allmusic.com] > Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2000 9:27 AM > To: Philip Sherburne; idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: RE: (idm) totally off topic: D'Angelo > > > But the new D'Angelo album, "Voodoo," is flat-out fucking amazing. > > I'd say the production is surprisingly *on* topic. Check out > http://www.okayplayer.com/dangelo/interface.htm -- this *really* nice loop > starts up as soon as you hit the website... > > .John. >

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quoted 2 lines Question re: Premiere -- has he ever done his own album, or

> Question re: Premiere -- has he ever done his own album, or > just productions for other folks? He did all Jeru's work, right?

We've got two albums listed at All-Music Guide, neither of which I've seen. One's called "Unreleased Instrumentals" from 1997 on RBV, and the other is "New York Reality Check 101" on Payday. Does anyone have news on either of these? I'd love to find them... And, yeah, Premier did both Jeru LP's. That first one is one of my favorite hip-hop albums of all time. And it seems like every overblown rap superstar (Puffy, Jay-Z, DMX?) of the last 12 months has been momentarily saved by having a Premier production -- check out the latest Rakim album for some of his best (great album!), or that two-disc Gang Starr compilation from last year... It'll probably take a decade or two, but at some point they're going to collect all of Premier's best productions, or all of Swizz Beatz or Timbaland's. Those'll be the rap albums to get! .John. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

At 12:47 PM 1/26/00 -0500, John Bush wrote:

quoted 4 lines Question re: Premiere -- has he ever done his own album, or

>> Question re: Premiere -- has he ever done his own album, or >> just productions for other folks? > >We've got two albums listed at All-Music Guide, neither of which I've seen.

quoted 1 line "Unreleased Instrumentals" from 1997 on RBV

>"Unreleased Instrumentals" from 1997 on RBV

There are actually two bootleg LPs entitled 'Premier Unreleased Beats Vols. 1 & 2', which i guess is what this is a reference to.

quoted 1 line "New York Reality Check 101" on Payday.

>"New York Reality Check 101" on Payday.

This is just a compilation mixed by him. There were some rumours floating around last summer about him doing a solo album on London, but apparantly nothing ever came of that.

quoted 3 lines And, yeah, Premier did both Jeru LP's. That first one is one of my favorite

>And, yeah, Premier did both Jeru LP's. That first one is one of my favorite >hip-hop albums of all time. And it seems like every overblown rap superstar >(Puffy, Jay-Z, DMX?)

Premier hasn't ever done anything for puff (B.I.G., yes) or DMX, as far as i know. and he's worked with Jay-Z since way before he was an 'overblown rap superstar'. way back when he did 'friend or foe' and 'd'evils' on Reasonable Doubt (which is a classic album) but yeah, recently he's been everywhere. recently he's done shit for screwball, Big L (r.i.p.), choclair, teflon, truck turner, common (finally!), j-live, charli baltimore, the lox, DITC, Pharoahe Monch, Memphis Bleek, Mos Def, and he's even responsible for that limp bizkit song with method man.

quoted 2 lines or that two-disc Gang Starr compilation from last

>or that two-disc Gang Starr compilation from last >year...

this is definetly the best place to start for anyone interested in his beats.

quoted 1 line He did all Jeru's work, right?

>He did all Jeru's work, right?

yes, but they're no longer working together, sadly. other essential primo-related albums are Group Home's 'Living Proof' and, of course Nas' Illmatic (IMHO the best overall hip hop album ever) btw, my personal fav primo beats: Nas: New York State Of Mind Jay-Z: 2nd Half of 'A Million & One Questions (Extended Mix)" Gangstarr: the one for Lil' Dap's verse on 'Speak Ya' Clout' (this is the same beat that Vibert flipped on Drum n' Bass for papa) there's a good website, with a pretty complete discog at http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Plaza/1979/frames.html --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

for the love of GOD.... There is nothing IDM about D'Angelo. Next Thing I'll be hearing is that Christina aguilerra and brittany spears have great *IDM* production. Good IDM Is DEAD. The only thing that's kept it alive is ambient. Bryan n Wed, 26 Jan 2000, Philip Sherburne wrote:

quoted 27 lines Yeah, and now that I notice it, there's some really interesting electronic

> Yeah, and now that I notice it, there's some really interesting electronic > effects going on in "Devil's Pie" (let us not forget that DJ Premier > co-produced that track). *Almost* on an IDM-y tip. > > Question re: Premiere -- has he ever done his own album, or just productions > for other folks? He did all Jeru's work, right? > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Bush [SMTP:johbus@allmusic.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2000 9:27 AM > > To: Philip Sherburne; idm@hyperreal.org > > Subject: RE: (idm) totally off topic: D'Angelo > > > > > But the new D'Angelo album, "Voodoo," is flat-out fucking amazing. > > > > I'd say the production is surprisingly *on* topic. Check out > > http://www.okayplayer.com/dangelo/interface.htm -- this *really* nice loop > > starts up as soon as you hit the website... > > > > .John. > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

--------------------------------- Bryan Bickel bbickel@cs.wayne.edu http://www.freshashell.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 2 lines But the new D'Angelo album, "Voodoo," is flat-out fucking

> But the new D'Angelo album, "Voodoo," is flat-out fucking > amazing. I'd

Is the new album produced by Bob Power like D'Angelo's last was? --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

At 12:39 PM 1/26/00 -0500, Chris Fahey wrote:

quoted 4 lines But the new D'Angelo album, "Voodoo," is flat-out fucking

>> But the new D'Angelo album, "Voodoo," is flat-out fucking >> amazing. I'd > >Is the new album produced by Bob Power like D'Angelo's last was?

No. I don't think he's involved in this one at all (the linear notes are kinda laid out in an odd manner, so i could be wrong). D'Angelo handled all the production on here except 'Devils Pie' (D' & Premier) and 'Untitled' (D' & Raphael Saadiq from Tony Tonee Tone) and in reference to another recent post: regardless of genre, 'Voodoo' is hands down the best album i've heard in a long while. and if certain narrow minded idm elitists choose to catagorize it amongst trife pop shit, then so be it, it's their loss. but i think people need to stick their head out of the IDM-shell once in a while --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 3 lines and if certain narrow minded idm elitists choose to catagorize it amongst

> and if certain narrow minded idm elitists choose to catagorize it amongst > trife pop shit, then so be it, it's their loss. but i think people need to > stick their head out of the IDM-shell once in a while

there's a difference between complaining about (admittedly) off-topic threads and being an idm elitist. maybe i'm crazy, but this is not the idm-chat list. it's the idm list. is anyone going to defend D'Angelo as idm? if so, great. if not, well, maybe we need a "i like idm but want to talk about whatever random music is on my mind" list. maybe an "idm is dead" list, too, while we're at it. pissy, -w. NP: Duran Duran: _Rio_ -- Warren Lapham laps@2350.org FAXlabel reviews : http://www.2350.org/ Pithy drivel and errata (8-12-1999 [visual]) : http://www.myzeitgeist.org/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 6 lines and in reference to another recent post:

> and in reference to another recent post: > regardless of genre, 'Voodoo' is hands down the best album i've heard in a > long while. > and if certain narrow minded idm elitists choose to catagorize it amongst > trife pop shit, then so be it, it's their loss. but i think people need to > stick their head out of the IDM-shell once in a while

If it smells like shit, looks like shit, and tastes like shit... well chances are that it is probably shit. I don't like shit. I'm sorry. I'll try to like everything from now on. Bryan

quoted 6 lines ---------------------------------------------------------------------

> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > >

--------------------------------- Bryan Bickel bbickel@cs.wayne.edu http://www.freshashell.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 8 lines If it smells like shit, looks like shit, and tastes like shit... well

>If it smells like shit, looks like shit, and tastes like shit... well >chances are that it is probably shit. > >I don't like shit. I'm sorry. > >I'll try to like everything from now on. > >Bryan

What would it take to get you to go back to having a presence on the list comprised exclusively of For Sale lists? There sure seems to be a list-wide maturity-plague of "I've been on the list six months now, so I won't let anybody else be as lame as I was." If you aren't careful, you might catch phase two: "I exchange email with my new friend(s) Famous-So-And-So and they told me <blah blah>"-itis. -- http://www.synthesizer.org/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

Comparing D'Angelo to Britney Spears is fucking retarded... but even if you *were* smart enough to be able to recognize high-quality, innovative, and/or artistically superior music from the world outside of the IDM closet, I wonder if you would also be able to appreciate any kind of cross-pollination between musical genres that for me is the real promise of good music of the future. For me, very few topics in the world of music should be considered off-topic on this list. If we're talking about the music itself (as opposed to, say, debating whether or not Trent Reznor is a poseur or not) then we're talking about something relevant to this list. Others may disagree with this broad definition, but I have high aspirations for this genre: I think that IDM represents a kind of "Music/Production Laboratory" where experimentation in the techniques of music production, composition, and sound engineering can occur - experiments which are rooted in the accomplishments of artists and engineers from other genres - and, hopefully, the IDM "lab" will produce results that become influential on a wider degree, in other genres and circles.

quoted 64 lines -----Original Message-----

> -----Original Message----- > From: ae1650@wayne.edu [mailto:ae1650@wayne.edu] > Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2000 1:09 PM > To: Philip Sherburne > Cc: 'johbus@allmusic.com'; idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: RE: (idm) totally off topic: D'Angelo > > > for the love of GOD.... There is nothing IDM about D'Angelo. > > Next Thing I'll be hearing is that Christina aguilerra and brittany > spears have great *IDM* production. > > Good IDM Is DEAD. The only thing that's kept it alive is ambient. > > Bryan > > n Wed, > 26 > Jan 2000, Philip Sherburne wrote: > > > Yeah, and now that I notice it, there's some really > interesting electronic > > effects going on in "Devil's Pie" (let us not forget that DJ Premier > > co-produced that track). *Almost* on an IDM-y tip. > > > > Question re: Premiere -- has he ever done his own album, or > just productions > > for other folks? He did all Jeru's work, right? > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: John Bush [SMTP:johbus@allmusic.com] > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2000 9:27 AM > > > To: Philip Sherburne; idm@hyperreal.org > > > Subject: RE: (idm) totally off topic: D'Angelo > > > > > > > But the new D'Angelo album, "Voodoo," is flat-out > fucking amazing. > > > > > > I'd say the production is surprisingly *on* topic. Check out > > > http://www.okayplayer.com/dangelo/interface.htm -- this > *really* nice loop > > > starts up as soon as you hit the website... > > > > > > .John. > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Bryan Bickel > bbickel@cs.wayne.edu > http://www.freshashell.com > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org >

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quoted 1 line Comparing D'Angelo to Britney Spears is fucking retarded...

> Comparing D'Angelo to Britney Spears is fucking retarded...

why?, because you like d'angelo and not britney spears? I

quoted 3 lines wonder if you would also be able to appreciate any kind of cross-pollination

> wonder if you would also be able to appreciate any kind of cross-pollination > between musical genres that for me is the real promise of good music of the > future.

yeah, one day I'm sure I'll realize how stupid I've been and understand that will smith using samples of the clash is a good thing.

quoted 3 lines For me, very few topics in the world of music should be considered off-topic

> > For me, very few topics in the world of music should be considered off-topic > on this list.

and that's why your not the list admin. If we're talking about the music itself (as opposed to, say,

quoted 2 lines debating whether or not Trent Reznor is a poseur or not) then we're talking

> debating whether or not Trent Reznor is a poseur or not) then we're talking > about something relevant to this list.

I would not call D'angelo "the music ".

quoted 9 lines Others may disagree with this broad definition, but I have high aspirations

> > Others may disagree with this broad definition, but I have high aspirations > for this genre: I think that IDM represents a kind of "Music/Production > Laboratory" where experimentation in the techniques of music production, > composition, and sound engineering can occur - experiments which are rooted > in the accomplishments of artists and engineers from other genres - and, > hopefully, the IDM "lab" will produce results that become influential on a > wider degree, in other genres and circles. >

welcome to utopia ladies and gentlemen. Bryan --------------------------------- Bryan Bickel bbickel@cs.wayne.edu http://www.freshashell.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

hey bryan, who gives a fuck? good, non-IDM music does come up pretty often around here (thank god). and hip hop gets talked about a-plenty... and ambient music and IDM both are largely about intelligent sound design. since there D'Angelo's got a little hip hop flava, intelligent sound design galore, and scads of soul (and let's not forget that electronic dance-based music -- eg, techno, electronica, whateva -- has at least partial roots in global black music, including blues, reggae, hip hop, soul, and more). since good IDM is indeed dead, i figured it was worth talking about a different kind of music for a change.

quoted 55 lines -----Original Message-----

> -----Original Message----- > From: ae1650@wayne.edu [SMTP:ae1650@wayne.edu] > Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2000 10:09 AM > To: Philip Sherburne > Cc: 'johbus@allmusic.com'; idm@hyperreal.org > Subject: RE: (idm) totally off topic: D'Angelo > > for the love of GOD.... There is nothing IDM about D'Angelo. > > Next Thing I'll be hearing is that Christina aguilerra and brittany > spears have great *IDM* production. > > Good IDM Is DEAD. The only thing that's kept it alive is ambient. > > Bryan > > n Wed, > 26 > Jan 2000, Philip Sherburne wrote: > > > Yeah, and now that I notice it, there's some really interesting > electronic > > effects going on in "Devil's Pie" (let us not forget that DJ Premier > > co-produced that track). *Almost* on an IDM-y tip. > > > > Question re: Premiere -- has he ever done his own album, or just > productions > > for other folks? He did all Jeru's work, right? > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: John Bush [SMTP:johbus@allmusic.com] > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2000 9:27 AM > > > To: Philip Sherburne; idm@hyperreal.org > > > Subject: RE: (idm) totally off topic: D'Angelo > > > > > > > But the new D'Angelo album, "Voodoo," is flat-out fucking amazing. > > > > > > I'd say the production is surprisingly *on* topic. Check out > > > http://www.okayplayer.com/dangelo/interface.htm -- this *really* nice > loop > > > starts up as soon as you hit the website... > > > > > > .John. > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Bryan Bickel > bbickel@cs.wayne.edu > http://www.freshashell.com

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quoted 3 lines (thank god). and hip hop gets talked about a-plenty... and ambient music

> (thank god). and hip hop gets talked about a-plenty... and ambient music > and IDM both are largely about intelligent sound design. since there > D'Angelo's got a little hip hop flava,

i'm not sure if I understand hip hop flava. could you explain this? intelligent sound design galore, and

quoted 3 lines scads of soul (and let's not forget that electronic dance-based music -- eg,

> scads of soul (and let's not forget that electronic dance-based music -- eg, > techno, electronica, whateva -- has at least partial roots in global black > music, including blues, reggae, hip hop, soul, and more).

why don't we just take it way back and say that electronic dance based music has roots in the early caveman percussion and grunts. Those are the real roots.

quoted 4 lines since good IDM is indeed dead, i figured it was worth talking about a

> > since good IDM is indeed dead, i figured it was worth talking about a > different kind of music for a change. >

and that is what other lists are for. Bryan

quoted 56 lines -----Original Message-----

> > -----Original Message----- > > From: ae1650@wayne.edu [SMTP:ae1650@wayne.edu] > > Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2000 10:09 AM > > To: Philip Sherburne > > Cc: 'johbus@allmusic.com'; idm@hyperreal.org > > Subject: RE: (idm) totally off topic: D'Angelo > > > > for the love of GOD.... There is nothing IDM about D'Angelo. > > > > Next Thing I'll be hearing is that Christina aguilerra and brittany > > spears have great *IDM* production. > > > > Good IDM Is DEAD. The only thing that's kept it alive is ambient. > > > > Bryan > > > > n Wed, > > 26 > > Jan 2000, Philip Sherburne wrote: > > > > > Yeah, and now that I notice it, there's some really interesting > > electronic > > > effects going on in "Devil's Pie" (let us not forget that DJ Premier > > > co-produced that track). *Almost* on an IDM-y tip. > > > > > > Question re: Premiere -- has he ever done his own album, or just > > productions > > > for other folks? He did all Jeru's work, right? > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: John Bush [SMTP:johbus@allmusic.com] > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2000 9:27 AM > > > > To: Philip Sherburne; idm@hyperreal.org > > > > Subject: RE: (idm) totally off topic: D'Angelo > > > > > > > > > But the new D'Angelo album, "Voodoo," is flat-out fucking amazing. > > > > > > > > I'd say the production is surprisingly *on* topic. Check out > > > > http://www.okayplayer.com/dangelo/interface.htm -- this *really* nice > > loop > > > > starts up as soon as you hit the website... > > > > > > > > .John. > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Bryan Bickel > > bbickel@cs.wayne.edu > > http://www.freshashell.com >

--------------------------------- Bryan Bickel bbickel@cs.wayne.edu http://www.freshashell.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org

quoted 4 lines there's a difference between complaining about (admittedly) off-topic

> >there's a difference between complaining about (admittedly) off-topic > >threads and being an idm elitist. maybe i'm crazy, > > You are.

Cool. Glad you cleared that up for me. Just for reference, where did you study psychiatry and/or criminal justice law? I don't remember saying anything disparaging about D'Angelo or anyone's musical taste. But I'm sure that there's a list for quite a few, if not all, of the many off-topic topics that have reared their heads on the list over the four years since I first subscribed. Maybe I'm just frustrated that the quality of list has, overall, disintegrated over that time period. Perhaps I'm partially to blame--I don't post particularly often. My intial infatuation with this genre--which temporarily blinded me to other styles of music--has worn off. I still think some of it is damn fine music, mind you, but IDM (what a bizarre and derogatory term) _per se_ occupies my turntable/CD player only about ten percent of the time, maybe less. I can certainly see the desire among list members--all of whom are here because of a common interest--to share other types of music that they like. This is not a unique characteristic of this list, especially among the more veteran members. However, someone signing on the list for the first time today would see very little on-topic posting, and would not take much (relevant) information away from it. I discovered a not-insignificant amount of music (IDM only, mind you) through this list, but looking at the state of the list today, I must say that I can't see myself getting that much out of it if I were a new subscriber. This troubles me. Now, the other side of the argument boils down to (as I see it): "It's everyone's list, and we can talk about whatever we want to. Delete the messages you don't like." This argument has merit, but only up to a certain point. It weakens when you move farther away from the original topic. If some of us on the list want to talk about New Order (an influential quasi-electronic band who have had IDM-type people do some remixes), should we talk about it here? No. We should talk about it on the New Order list, or in private. If there's not a New Order list, we should make one. Many commercial services offer free mailing lists. As far as I'm concerned, it is mere courtesy to try to keep things on topic. People signed up for this list to expect messages about a certain topic, and to deviate from that topic is downright rude. It turns the list into nothing more than a giant chatroom. I understand that IDM is a vaguely-defined genre, and that's fine; I've participated in many debates/flamewars about that topic. But the line has to be drawn somewhere--merely saying, "This is good music," doesn't cut it. This isn't the "good music" mailing list, is it? -w. [See http://www.catalog.com/vivian/lifecycle.html for an interesting take on things.] -- Warren Lapham laps@2350.org FAXlabel reviews : http://www.2350.org/ Pithy drivel and errata (8-12-1999 [visual]) : http://www.myzeitgeist.org/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org