IDM Mailing Archive

quoted 8 lines From: Kent Williams (matt remix)

> From: Kent Williams (matt remix) > In jazz, and in blues, the black masters of the form regularly employ > white musicians as side men. They judge the musician by what he does, > not his skin color. > One of thing I really like about dance culture (at least the microcosm > of dance culture available to me in Iowa) is that it is a place where > these things don't matter -- black, white, asian, straight, gay, mutant, > even old crusties like me mix and party with no problem.

alot of music has it's roots in black culture be it jazz, blues, techno or whatever. there is a history of black music being overrun and diluted by the white population. techno has its roots in europe-kraftwerk and experimental electronics; electro and disco. house and disco is really a gay black thing in rooy form. techno was invented? in detriot by black musicians and has influenced a large mostly white population in europe and now back in north america. alot of the early detroit techno was characterised by a soul in the cold electronics that is missing in the stomp of the jackbooted european techno. the advantage of techno is that mostly the records consist of little information regarding the origin-so the race, creed, colour of the producer is unknown (and irrelevent). the music should stand up by itself. detroit doesn't receive the credit it is due and most techno released today isn't worthy of the title if used in it's detroitcentric terms. techno is a dirty word in alot of places and its the stupid, soulless and mostly white population thats to blame. find the UR album and read the inner sleeve-RIOT! respect matt

quoted 8 lines the advantage of techno is that mostly the records consist of little

> the advantage of techno is that mostly the records consist of little > information regarding the origin-so the race, creed, colour of the > producer is unknown (and irrelevent). the music should stand up by > itself. detroit doesn't receive the credit it is due and most techno > released today isn't worthy of the title if used in it's > detroitcentric terms. techno is a dirty word in alot of places and > its the stupid, soulless and mostly white population thats to blame. >

Well, for every million jillion records techno records made, there are a few gems -- that's why I read this list. A lot of techno is really dance-floor-only. In classical terms, this is 'occasional music.' It can sound really dumb on disk if it isn't first rate. I just would hate to see the discussion put on a racial basis, since that isn't true to my experience of the scene. Even if you're a pasty faced white guy like me, and you deeply empathize with the problems faced by blacks in America, you can't hope to understand the experience fully. The best one can do, really, is to meet people on their own terms, and judge them one at a time. I used to live in a black neighborhood in Cedar Rapids Iowa. Not the center of the ghetto, by any means, but a place where I was a minority and had to watch my manners if I didn't want to get my ass kicked. One year after Christmas I was sitting in my front room with a white friend and a black friend from the neighborhood. My friend was joking about what he got for christmas "oh, a ferrari, a big screen TV, a trip to Rio." The black guy wasn't laughing, he was just staring at him. When the white guy finished, the black guys response was "man, you been sleeping overtime." At that moment I got a glimpse of something alien to my white boy experience: to the black man joking like this wasn't funny because even though the white guy was just joking, it was within the realm of his (the white guy's) possibilities, but completely unattainable and foreign to the black man. Which brings me back around to James Drexciya's comments about rich white kids jumping on his bus. I can understand his resentment. But the answer is not to devalue what any does, just because of the circumstances of their birth. Being poor and black doesn't grant one any particular nobility, and being white and relatively well-to-do doesn't automatically make you a twit. I am curious as to why while I can buy dozens of disks by English dudes like Orb, FSOL and Orbital, I can't find any good comps of the real detroit stuff. As much as I like ambient music, do we really need another ambient comp?

On Wed, 25 Jan 1995, Kent Williams wrote:

quoted 4 lines I am curious as to why while I can buy dozens of disks by English dudes

> I am curious as to why while I can buy dozens of disks by English dudes > like Orb, FSOL and Orbital, I can't find any good comps of the real detroit > stuff. As much as I like ambient music, do we really need another > ambient comp?

There's a real devotion to vinyl here, since so many of the musicians are also DJ's. Check out the near-fetishization of vinyl with someone like Jeff Mills -- the Cycle 30 EP had *9* locked grooves, for example. Or the X-102 vinyl, with the grooves arranged like Saturn's rings on one side, and the tracks playing from inside-out on the other side... There's also the idea that vinyl 12"s are more "underground" than CD comps. Good news is that Submerge has planned a series of comps (the first, Depth Charge 1, is already out) that will make a fair amount of stuff on the Submerge-affiliated labels (UR, Shockwave, Red Planet, Happy, Simply Soul, and many more) availible on CD for the first time. ----------------------------------------------------------------- dave walker, detroit art services _ marmoset@msen.com freeke robot luv

BEGIN QUOTE FROM Alan M. Parry: : : I agree, but then why is so much of the vinyl that comes out of Detroit : so shitty? I picked up an old Matrix 12" this week and it was paper thin, : and I know many others have voiced complaints too.. : : It's called cash flow and availability. There was a long period of time where the major labels cornered the market on raw vinyl for pressing records, just so it wouldn't be available for indi labels. -- _____________________________________________________________________________ fixer@d2.com is Robert Smith Digital Domain phone: 310/314-2920 300 Rose Avenue fax: 310/314-2866 Venice, CA 90291 _____________________________________________________________________________ "The future is not set. There is no fate but what we make for ourselves."

On Wed, 25 Jan 1995, Alan M. Parry wrote:

quoted 6 lines There's a real devotion to vinyl here, since so many of the musicians are

> > There's a real devotion to vinyl here, since so many of the musicians are > > also DJ's. > > I agree, but then why is so much of the vinyl that comes out of Detroit > so shitty? I picked up an old Matrix 12" this week and it was paper thin, > and I know many others have voiced complaints too..

Wish I hand an answer for you but I don't. It's not a _universal_ problem with all the labels, though: for example, the stuff on Axis is always immaculately mastered and pressed. On the other hand (sorry, Richie & Matt) I've had particular problems with a lot of Intellinet stuff. My copy of the Teste "Perceptrons" EP is unlistenable due to all the surface crud, the first copy of Public Energy's "Slumber" I picked up was nearly as bad, and even things as recent as the last Telepathic single (only a few weeks ago) had major problems. Maybe you need to kick some butts. :) [note: these aren't audiophile/weenie problems like the ones people have been complaining about on the ambient list, these are drastic things, like big patches of crud on the vinyl)] ----------------------------------------------------------------- dave walker, detroit art services _ marmoset@msen.com absolutely sweat, marie <A HREF="http://www.msen.com/~marmoset/">Dave Walker</A>

quoted 6 lines There's also the idea that vinyl 12"s are more "underground"

>There's also the idea that vinyl 12"s are more "underground" >than CD comps. Good news is that Submerge has planned a series of comps >(the first, Depth Charge 1, is already out) that will make a fair >amount of stuff on the Submerge-affiliated labels (UR, Shockwave, Red >Planet, Happy, Simply Soul, and many more) availible on CD for the first >time.

Hey Dave and all, SUBMERGE also has "Escape into the Void" which is great...has SHAKE tracks on it, EFF, Mad Mike et als, etc... Go with it. Don't they also do "SWEAT" dj-mixed comps on CD? -morgan geist

quoted 3 lines I agree, but then why is so much of the vinyl that comes out of Detroit

> I agree, but then why is so much of the vinyl that comes out of Detroit >so shitty? I picked up an old Matrix 12" this week and it was paper thin, >and I know many others have voiced complaints too..

Ask yourself! He needs to be subscribed to both lists...I forgot how. Could the sysadmin's subscribe matrix313@aol.com to each list (idm, 313) please? If this is a pain, someone send subscribe info to that address. Thanks in advance. -morgan geist

quoted 6 lines On the other hand (sorry, Richie &

> On the other hand (sorry, Richie & >Matt) I've had particular problems with a lot of Intellinet stuff. My >copy of the Teste "Perceptrons" EP is unlistenable due to all the surface >crud, the first copy of Public Energy's "Slumber" I picked up was nearly >as bad, and even things as recent as the last Telepathic single (only a >few weeks ago) had major problems. Maybe you need to kick some butts. :)

Yes, I have noticed that Intellinets stuff hasn't been up to par. Some of it has come out on nice thick vinyl but there is stuff like big bubbles in the pressing and what not. Also some of it was warped. Had this awesome record, think it was Rebel Alliance off Mix records, number 7, had a huge warp in it, it would only play on the best of record players (ie. Dual or Technics). Anybody got a copy they would like to sell me? rstride@wimsey.com ...