Thanks Ben,
I think your sentiments are right on. One of my
first projects is finding some empirical data backing up your
statements about technological solutions and abundance of resources
given these solutions. I have a "feeling" you are right however.
I
also think education is critical. Hence why I've been working on plans
for dissemination of information and starting discussion and planning
(both virtual and reality based) groups. Like I made mention of in a
earlier post I am starting a group whos dedication is Zeitgeist here:
http://groups.google.com/group/zeitgeistmovement?lnk=gcimh
Its
new so the discussion will be sparce at first. Also we may decide that Zeitgeist has it all wrong and want to eventually move in a different
direction. This is a good first step though. I've contacted the owners
of the movie about getting information out about the group as well.
I
also think getting a piece of land and starting "live" experiments
there is a great idea. Right now I am trying to decide if I want to do
it in city or out of city to begin with. There seem to be benefits to
both.
Thanks for the help,
Zaq
quoted 233 lines Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 10:19:07 -0800
> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 10:19:07 -0800
> From: bgood2003@yahoo.com
> To: idm@hyperreal.org
> Subject: Re: [idm] Zeitgeist: Addendum (OT)
>
> I personally think both sections of the movie have some
> merit, the first half for its raw and critical education and the second part
> for at least pitching a solution suggestion.
>
> I think there are a couple of factors occurring simultaneously: First, the
> onset of serious environmental disasters is going to (imo) start "waking
> up" and pulling together lots of people, and while the super rich (aka
> ruling class... beyond money) may still not care because they can hide in their
> hollowed out mountains, more and more people may revolt and use their resources
> to come up with technological solutions, or demand change in some sort of
> functional way. Additionally, if the technology was present (which in reality
> it probably already is) I surmise that most people would actually be shocked at
> how many resources we have. The direction we have been going in as a corporation/banker
> run world is not a path that in any way plans for the extension of human life
> or the quality therein, if the mass focus released this and developed sufficient
> cause for concern then the methods of production, living etc would potentially
> change dramatically into something that actually made a scrap of sense.
>
> Its a long shot but frankly everyone seems to talk tough about how the world
> will not change until they are about to die because of that stubbornness and
> they simply wonder why it has to be like this. Education is critical, buying
> your own piece of isolated land is also not a horrible idea and at the end of
> the day change is only going to come because enough competent people got the
> word and organizational tools out early enough....
>
>
> By the way, there are central banks in every country in the world aside from Andorra and Monaco (all of which are coordinated by the Bank for International Settlements)
>
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_central_banks
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_for_International_Settlements
>
>
> some thoughts,
> Ben
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Matt Simpson <mr.threv@gmail.com>
> To: Z Moser <roachgod69@hotmail.com>
> Cc: idm hyperreal <idm@hyperreal.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 8:21:18 AM
> Subject: Re: [idm] Zeitgeist: Addendum (OT)
>
> Shiggy Shiggy Shiggy, can't you see? Sometimes your games just hypnotize
> me...
>
>
> 2008/11/12 Z Moser <roachgod69@hotmail.com>
>
> >
> > Yes. I agree completely This is why I appreciate Zeitgeist, it gives a
> > vision of the future.
>
>
> a utopian vision pulled from uranus.
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > zaq
> >
> >
> > > Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 11:46:39 +0200
> > > From: esaruoho@gmail.com
> > > To: roachgod69@hotmail.com
> > > Subject: Re: [idm] Zeitgeist: Addendum (OT)
> > > CC: idm@hyperreal.org
> > >
> > > it doesnt take long to realize that most of these truth-out
> > > documentaries ONLY outline a problem, call this or that group of
> > > people, country, politician, banker etc bad bad bad down with him
> > > off with his head - and cue in the epic dramatic orchestral stab.
> > > unfortunately the mess-fests that various directors have done of r.
> > > buckminster fuller are quite ridiculous - incoherent mess the lot of
> > > them. check out "grunch of the giants" and "guinea pig b", you'll find
> > > them online for free. those are good ones, good books tho.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 2008/11/12 Z Moser <roachgod69@hotmail.com>:
> > > >
> > > > I get what you are saying. From what I understand of the of the Venus
> > > > Project another one of the first steps is to take an accounting of the
> > > > worlds limits in order to see how many people it can support in a
> > > > stable ecosystem and with the building materials available or new ones
> > > > that we will come up with. We are already in the first stages of
> > > > producing programmable matter that takes on the properties we assign
> > > > it. Do you know how much steal is available at this point?
> > > >
> > > > Ill will check out Money Masters. Does it provide solutions, or only
> > outline a problem?
> > > >
> > > > zaq
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> From: sam@forum8.co.jp
> > > >> To: idm@hyperreal.org
> > > >> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 17:50:24 +0900
> > > >> Subject: RE: [idm] Zeitgeist: Addendum (OT)
> > > >>
> > > >> Check out a movie called "The Money Masters". It's a 3 hour + doco on
> > why a
> > > >> fractional reserve banking system run by a private central bank sucks.
> > I'm
> > > >> not saying I agree with the plan proposed in that either, I'm just
> > saying it
> > > >> seems a lot more practical than our utopian friends at The Venus
> > Project
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> The other reason I thought the new Zeitgeist movie was a bit too
> > utopian is
> > > >> that I'm very much unconvinced that we live in a world of abundance.
> > I
> > > >> would hardly say we have an abundant supply of whatever that form of
> > steel
> > > >> was that they proposed to build their cities on water out of (memory
> > steel?)
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> From: Z Moser [mailto:roachgod69@hotmail.com]
> > > >> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 4:02 PM
> > > >> To: sam@forum8.co.jp; idm hyperreal
> > > >> Subject: RE: [idm] Zeitgeist: Addendum
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Yes. Thiis was my main problem with the movie as well. There is a good
> > > >> explanation of why things are the way they are and how they could be.
> > There
> > > >> is very little info on how to get from here to there. Is this the only
> > > >> reason you think it sucked badly? Do you have any suggestion, or know
> > any
> > > >> movie/media that gives information on how to go about moving things
> > into a
> > > >> transitional period? This is what my main interest of study is right
> > now.
> > > >>
> > > >> zaq
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> > From: sam@forum8.co.jp
> > > >> > To: idm@hyperreal.org
> > > >> > Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 15:34:20 +0900
> > > >> > Subject: RE: [idm] Zeitgeist: Addendum
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I thought the movie sucked pretty badly, just quietly. It had some
> > merits
> > > >> -
> > > >> > the section about the economics of our situation was somewhat
> > > >> interesting..
> > > >> > however, there was no detail about the path to the utopian dream at
> > the
> > > >> end
> > > >> >
> > > >> > -----Original Message-----
> > > >> > From: Z Moser [mailto:roachgod69@hotmail.com]
> > > >> > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 12:20 PM
> > > >> > To: rick@glowdot.com; idm hyperreal
> > > >> > Subject: RE: [idm] Zeitgeist: Addendum
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Oh. I get it. Its not that it's because it isn't IDM. Its because
> > you have
> > > >> a
> > > >> > bias. In that case I will ignore you.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Thanks for being clear,
> > > >> > zaq
> > > >> >
> > > >> > > Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 18:59:18 -0800
> > > >> > > From: rick@glowdot.com
> > > >> > > To: idm@hyperreal.org
> > > >> > > Subject: Re: [idm] Zeitgeist: Addendum
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Charles Goodwin wrote:
> > > >> > > > Ya know, I never quite understood why people get so upset every
> > time
> > > >> > anyone posts anything that is not directly related to IDM, the same
> > thing
> > > >> > used to happen on the Tech-house list and now its dead.
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > Because this is the IDM list not the FW: FW: RE: RE: RE: FW: RE:
> > OMG
> > > >> > > ZEITGIEST MIND BLOWN MUST SEE BU$$SH = HITLER CONSPIRACY list,
> > that's
> > > >> why.
> > > >>
> > > >
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