quoted 6 lines hahaha no you need to think about what you are saying... or typing.. on
>
>hahaha no you need to think about what you are saying... or typing.. on
>what computer by what means of electronic pulses that flow through what
>data paths that culminate in what hubs to be seen by what ??>people... who
>are free and live free because others died...go type >some more and try to
>forget why you are free
I am free because people died for my freedom. This is true. I am not
arguing that. I am arguing that freedom is not the reason, or at least not
the primary reason for this war. Are you trying to tell me that you don't
think the government uses the media to lie and spread propaganda? Almost
anyone will at the drop of a hat will tell you to be a politician you have
to be conniving, and dishonest...Hence the Ironic joke of the "honest
politician", But it seems that when ever a president screams war and starts
waving the flag we forget all of what we thought before and follow him as a
child would a parent. I think there are two reason behind this war. Number
one money. Number two unresolved and redirected anger that spawned in 9/11.
I think freedom of Iraq is a justification, because the American public will
not accept the first two.
If the real reason was freedom then why did we wait until now? Saddam has
been in power for awhile. Why Iraq? There are plenty of countries who have
dictators that make Saddam look like the easter bunny. We even support some
of dictators with financial and military backing.
Let me get this straight. I am not anti-american. I think most americans
a good hard-working individuals. I am anti the ruling class. By ruling
class, I mean the class that controls most of the money. I do not think they
have the common american's or Iraqis's interest in mind.
quoted 7 lines It sounds a bit reactionary, and hypocritical.
>>It sounds a bit reactionary, and hypocritical.
>
>
>hmmm what i find reactionary and hypocritical is people who are doing
> >nothing but block traffic for those patriotic freedom loving trauma
> >victims unable to get medical attention because you are too wrapped >up
>in social "consciousness" to give a fuck about anyone and yes you >are.
Non-violent public demonstrations have probably secured more freedoms
over the years, in america, than all the deaths for freedom combined. They
are guaranteed under out constitution. (would you suggest we take that
freedom away). And they provided an outlet for points of view that may not
be available in the mainstream media.
I have already stated that I do think it is sad that people haven't been
able to get medical attention, but I do think that one's priorities are a
bit scrambled, if one is concerned with the inability to get medical
attention over the horrors that occur during war.
quoted 6 lines Unjustified (>>>read "left wing propaganda buzzword"<<<) wars
>
>>Unjustified (>>>read "left wing propaganda buzzword"<<<) wars would >>not
>>be fought if we had leaders that were looking out for our >>interest, and
>>not their own pocketbooks.
>broad general statement that has no backing with fact...typical..i can >see
>through your "debating tactics" lets hear some more buzzwords >shall we??
I'm not here to debate "debating tactics".
I am not sure if it is a "left-wing buzzword or not" I was using it in
the philosophical sense. That is, that this is a war that has no good
reason. I tend to try not to associate with specific parties, affiliations,
or movements. I try make my decisions on my own based on research, critical
thinking, analysis of motivation, and watching historical patterns. I also
do give some credence to sources that have a good track record of using
these skills to accurately predict the future.
It is a broad general statement, this doesn't mean it is not true. Most
of the facts that you say do not exist are accessible in public records. The
reason I made the broad general statement is because it would take allot of
time and effort to spell it out, when all is a small amount of effort on
your part to look it up for yourself. Though I will if you would like, spell
it out that is.
quoted 4 lines If the populace was educated
>> If the populace was educated
>and exactly how uneducated are they?? and what exactly >is "educated"???
>care for some more broad general statements?? keep >reading what z moser
>has to say
The majority of Americas population does not read above a 8th grade
level. This is the reason the major newspapers are printed at this level.
Educated means that you do not believe things just because they are told
to you. It means that you have a understanding that all that is presented to
you through that mainstream media channels is not always true. It means you
have the skills to logically analyze this information in compare it to other
sources. It means you have the ability to gather, understand, and use
information. Education eventually leads to wisdom.
It is easy to persuade the people who do not have these skills.
quoted 7 lines and informed we would have better leaders.
>
>>and informed we would have better leaders.
>HAHAHA i promised you more broad general non-specific words >like "better"
>leaders bwahahaha. get a fact or something to back >yourself up??? what is
>"better"? care to shed some light... can you >make me a chart and tell me
>who was better in the past or who is >the "best" leader?? hahahaha you are
>a joke.
Better is very subjective. It is dependent on a person's or agencies
goals. For example if one's goal was to lose weight diet and exercise would
be "better" than sitting around eating fast food and watching TV. On the
contrary, if one's goal was to become a sumo wrestler perhaps sitting around
eating that fast food would be better.
A system is a method or series of steps designed to achieve a goal. A
leader is one who watches over this system to see that it is running
smoothly, and makes adjustments to the system if it is not. Lets say there
is a corporation who's main purpose is to bring in as much capital as
possible. A leader who developed a system that achieved this goal, would
better than one that squander money away on unwise uninformed investments.
The American government system is supposed to be a democratic government
for the people looking out for our liberties and rights that were laid out
in the constitution and bill of rights. A good leader is one who, takes this
into account and has the interest of the whole population in mind when he
makes descions concerning the country, not one who is more concerned with
the interest of himself and the ruling class that consist of only the top
few percent of the population.
Weather you like to believe it or not some people are corrupt and power
hungry, and many of these people go into politics. Politics offers a great
source of power. When one of these people get into control the system they
reside over becomes corrupt. This can happen from local school board
members, to, heaven forbid, the President of the United States. These people
are banking on you trusting them, not questioning policy, not researching,
not becoming informed and educated. This is how they become elected.
quoted 10 lines If unjustified wars
>
>> If unjustified wars
>
>yawn.... uh what is an unjustified war and what is a justified war in >YOUR
>eyes??? why don't you explain yourself instead of expecting >everyone to
>know what exactly you are speaking of ... oh wait you >just want to pull
>heart strings so you will never be specific >because you might lose some
>followers... liberal scum can never be >specific cause specifics create
>differing schools of thought and the >last thing you want is people to
>think individually you want them all >to think the same
I am not certain to what a justified war would be. According American
law the only time you are justified in violent action if they invade your
property, or in self-defense, or defense of another person. It is not
justified to hurt someone because you suspect they are going to hurt you, in
fact if you do this it will be you who will be arrested. I think the
government should apply the same laws to itself than it does to it's
subjects.
quoted 13 lines Or would you prefer to live the life of comfort and apathy
>
>>Or would you prefer to live the life of comfort and apathy
>
>DING DING DING we hit the nail on the head... APATHY!!! yayyy we have
>reached an new left wing LOW!!!! i love when we throw words >around...it
>let's everyone think of their own interpretation of what >you mean so they
>will agree even if you meant something different.
>
>APATHY is knowing that the world is different now that we are in the >21st
>century (9/11-etc etc) and that leaders come to power and >eventually start
>genocides... so by stopping them before they start >you can preserve the
>future... by addressing issues head and not >reacting to them allows you to
>be able to survive to protest another >day.
This is true. Apathy is also doing nothing when you own government is
participating in genocides. At Fort Bennings Georgia we have a government
run school, Called the School of Americas(SOA). It was dubbed the School of
Assasins by a Panamanian newspaper. This school has train been training
future latin american dictators and soldiers in the torture, execution and
blackmail sense 1954. This is all on public record. I personally have a
friends whose parents had to leave El Salvador because his life was being
threatened by the Graduates of this school. The mission of U.S. southern
command (encompassing the SOA) includes "Protecting the supply of strategic
natural resources and access to the markets" This in layman's terms means
setting up governments ran by us to take another countries resources and
financial gains. People say it's not about the money. It's in black and
white. What do you think is meant when it is stated war is good for the
economy. The business of killing people is about money.
Why do you think we know Saddam has chemicals and warheads capable of
delivering them. We sold him his first Anthrax that's why. Saddam has 133
billion barrels of oil in Iraq that he is planning to nationalize. Do that
math at 40 dollars a barrel that's over 5 trillion dollars dollars tied up
in the outcome of this war. There is a planed 100 billion dollars that to be
spent on this war and it's clean up. Do you realize we could easily solve
poverty in america with 100 billion dollars? Apathy is believing that the
companies at the receiving end of all of this money have no influence over
the powers that be.
Apathy is seeing problems and either turning a blind eye to them, or just
not caring.
quoted 3 lines you are misinformed and exhaust me with your propaganda... i have >used no
>
>you are misinformed and exhaust me with your propaganda... i have >used no
>buzzwords and pulled no heart strings... unlike you...
I personally think "buzzwords" is a buzzword, but I am not arguing this. I
do not think these things are relevant to the topic at hand.
I think you use ad-hominem arguments instead of counter-points. In case you
don't know an ad-hominem is a logical fallacy based on attacking the arguers
charactor instead of the argument at hand.
zach
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