IDM Mailing Archive

First, Like I stated in the beginning this is was a very toned down version of the argument without much elaboration. Second, I feel somewhat offended by the rudeness in your reply. I can see no purpose in this. I am just offering an opinion of a new way the music industry could work. This is in contrast to the opinion that everyone who downloads music does it to "steal" the music. I will now elaborate a bit on my statements in order to try to clarify any misunderstandings.

quoted 13 lines 1. Almost everyone I know that makes or promotes music in anyway has a

> > > 1. Almost everyone I know that makes or promotes music in anyway has a > > day job, and makes a net total of zero dollars on their music. They all >make > > music because they love music. > >1. Nearly all the albums I have purchased with the exception of a very few >are by people who perform and record music for a living, or attempt to. But >yeah, the people I KNOW all have day jobs - funny that! Of course none of >them would ever DREAM of making enough money from music that they could >QUIT >doing SHITTY day jobs - that would be some kind of HORRIBLE CAPITALIST >EVIL!

If you are trying to make a point here I am confused to what it is. As far as I can tell you are agreeing that people have the ability to hold a day job and make music.

quoted 5 lines 1a. The reasons behind this are many. The current system in place to

> > > 1a. The reasons behind this are many. The current system in place to > > distribute and promote music is one of the main problems though. > >1a. Vague muttering

It is vague. I said it would be somewhat vague above, and in the original message. As for muttering, well this has do do with grumbles and speaking in indecipherable tones, so I'm not sure how it a applies. This is what I meant. It is really hard for a musician to "break" into the music buisness. This goes for musicians that make popular, and unpopular music. Though, the more unpopular your music is the harder it becomes to get a deal. Without a deal it is very hard to get your name out into mediums that have a national or worldwide audience such as magazines, video stations, or radio stations. This is an explanation for the promotion aspects of the above statement. Without a deal it is also very hard to distribute music. You would have to get stores to pick up your music. You have to pay for the pressing. You have to pay for the delivery. I am sure there are difficulties I am not thinking of. With P2P I Can do all of the above with a computer and Internet connection. I don't even have to burn CD-Rs. I make my song convert it to a popular format. Use some creative metatagging so that people looking for my particular type of music can find it. Promote it niche web-sites, chat rooms, and mailing list. Put it on a file-sharing network, and perhaps a personal website. Some people will download it, if they like it they will spread the word. Some people who really like will donate a small amount of cash. Even one dollar would be more than I would make from the sell of a CD in the current industry. Imagine that your music is good and you become somewhat popular and 1500 people donate 50 cents (the amount of a local phone call, or a candy bar) that's 750 in a month. Admittedly this isn't a living, but for many unknown musicians, or hobbyist it would be a nice supplement. (This is already happening in the Online comic industry and working pretty well)

quoted 5 lines 2. In the current system people, for the most part, buy hype, not music.

> > > 2. In the current system people, for the most part, buy hype, not music. > >2. Then they come home, put it in the CD player, and say 'WTF? This isn't >HYPE! This is like a song I heard on the radio! GOD DAMMIT!!'

There are two problems with the above statement. First, most music is not played on the radio. Second, even popular artist only get maybe one or two songs on the radio. This is often hype. Many times these are not representative of the whole album....sometimes they are. I think it is possible you don't understand what I mean by hype. Let me elaborate. When you buy something because of the hype, you buy it because it is supposed to be good not because it is. Though it might be, you can't know until after the purchase. Who creates this hype? For the most part the people who want the album to sell. So is hype is created not with the intent of delivering accurate information, but in order to make money.

quoted 12 lines 3. The ability to download music does 2 things.

> > > 3. The ability to download music does 2 things. > > > 3a. It relatively levels the playing field. The bedroom producer, or > > garage band can now reach as many people as Britney Spears. Word of >mouth > > becomes more powerful than it has ever been in the history of man. > >3a. This is a nice theory. But somehow I have failed to discover the P2P >network where this is true. And what's the advantage of reaching so many >millions of people if none of them gives enough of a shit to pay for the >privilege?

P2P is in the baby stages of it's development. If it follows the trend of other technologies we should see great advancements in the near future. As of now I find almost everything I could ever think of using two programs. Kazzalite for my more mainstream taste, and SoulSeek for my underground taste. If Shareza gets a broader user base it is very likely that I will switch to only using it. It is an amazing cutting edge program. None is a very large amount. I myself pay for music that I find and like, this alone proves that part of your argument wrong. Of course, you probably meant not many. This seems like biased speculation on your part in order to prove a point. Within my limited experience almost all the people I know who download music also buy music from the artists who's music pleased them when it was downloaded.

quoted 14 lines 3b. It ups the anty. With so many artist out there to choose from no

> > > 3b. It ups the anty. With so many artist out there to choose from no > > longer can individuals rely on hype such as paid off reviewers, huge > > marketing schemes, and a few songs played on the radio or video station. >The > > artists have to, as they say, shit or get off the pot. > >3b. So now everyone has to choose based on -here we go- FREE REVIEWS ON >FREE >WEBSITES! WITH FREE PIRATE RADIO! etc. etc. THANK GOD THERE'S SO MANY >FUCKING DEVOTED HOBBYISTS OUT THERE SUPPORTING MY NEED TO NOT PAY FOR >ANYTHING EVER EXCEPT THE CABLE MODEM because hey dude guess what I got a >day >job I don't have time to listen to all this crap myself

Yes, thank god for these hobbyist. You sound angry about this. I'm confused. This brings up something else I had been thinking about recently. I have been thinking about away these hobbyist could get paid for searching out and finding music for various niches. I haven't completely worked it out yet though. It would have something do do with circles. You will probably call this vague mutterings. (this is a joke, don't become offended)

quoted 19 lines 4. Redistribution of wealth, and toppling of corporate hierarchies. A

> > > 4. Redistribution of wealth, and toppling of corporate hierarchies. A > > negative side effect for some is this will lower the amount of money >coming > > in. This is a natural side effect of a market growing becoming wider. >People > > have more to choose from so they can more easily satisfy their personal > > taste. On the other hand many of the bedroom producers that never >expected > > to make a cent off their music can now start making a small income of >their > > music, through new systems like paypal. > >And every other month I can post a story about how my parents got sick or >the taxman made me eat it or my car broke down and beg for extra cash from >my loving listeners. I SUCK YO DICK FO A QUARTER! Dignity is a privilege of >the CAPITALIST PIG. People have more to choose from? My local mall record >store still has better selection than most P2P services, and with Amazon + >AB-CD + FE I have P2P beaten hands down.

The first part of this confuses me. Often artist compromise the integrity of their work in order to be loved by the mainstream. In the system I propose artist could make the music they wanted. If it was liked by people they could choose to pay for it. Not all fans would do this, I can imagine many would and do though. I do. I've never had a artist I like give me a sob story, or offer to suck my dick. I've already stated above that P2P is in it's baby stages of development. I don't know where you live, or what type of music you listen to, but I can find almost none of the music I listen to at local stores. I have to order almost all of it.

quoted 11 lines 5a. Systems like paypal also cut out the middle man, allowing the artist

> > > 5a. Systems like paypal also cut out the middle man, allowing the artist > > to see more of the money thereby lowering the cost of music for the > > consumer. > >How does the cost get any lower than 'Free?' Does PayPal help cover the >cost >of production? Can I make you pay me without begging? Does the musician get >anything besides a nice warm fuzzy at the end of the day after going >through >all this to let you hear their music free of charge?

It doesn't get any lower than free. Either your frame of reference was off, or I didn't communicate clearly. I was comparing two systems. In the first system you pay something between 12 and 20 dollars for a cd, with a small amount actually going to the creative entities involved. In the second system you could pay directly to the artist, or perhaps through one middle man of a web/music hosting site. This is what I meant by saving the consumer money. Yes money could also go to the producer, if the artist himself isn't doing the production. This is happening more and more. I think I have addressed the rest of your questions above.

quoted 9 lines I think that is all I have to say...Oh yeah one more thing. Music is the

> > > I think that is all I have to say...Oh yeah one more thing. Music is the > > one of the only mediums you are expected to buy without sampling to see >if > > you like it first. > >NEWS FLASH - RADIO BROADCASTS MUSIC TO LISTENERS >Top 40, Urban, Jazz, AC and 'College' formats planned >MTV, VH1, BET, etc: "This is just like what we do, without pictures!"

This is a very limited amount of music. Many areas don't even support all these types of music stations.

quoted 4 lines CD STORES PLAN 'LISTENING STATIONS'

> >CD STORES PLAN 'LISTENING STATIONS' >Used CDs, featured New Releases and now ANYTHING WITH A BARCODE available >for 'previewing' - NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE

In the stores I have been in that have implemented this system they are usually very small clips. Or a limited amount of albums. Stores also, by nature, can only stock a very limited amount of music that is available. This is one of the best things about P2P the amount of artist and styles that can be "stocked" is virtually limitless.

quoted 2 lines Enough of this. I hope DJ Shadow gets a laugh.

> >Enough of this. I hope DJ Shadow gets a laugh.

I don't personally think he will. From what I have read that he has written, he seems to be a more open-minded and well thought out individual than yourself seems, at first glance, to be. Plus, it was a bit more personal with him. Basically, I live in a fairly dry area musically. 1 rock station, 1 Top-Forty/Urban station, 1 Adult Contemporary Station, NPR, and about 10 Tejano/Kumbia stations. There is a small Punk, and Rave scene. Most of the concerts that come down are either Metal such as Pantera, or washed-out pop bands. I have a particular taste for good Jungle. Four years ago I was searching for Jungle on Napster, because at the time I didn't really know any particular artist and I didn't want to go spend money on music I had never heard. I downloaded a song called "Deep in the JUNGLE" by Blackalicious, and a Song with Saul Williams and DJ Krust called "Coded Language" This was the most amazing Hip Hop I had ever heard. I would have never even imagined Hip Hop like this existed if my only sources were the ones the industry provided. This led me looking into the artists that were affiliated with these artists, and their influences. Eventually this led to DJ Shadow, who is on the same Label as Blackalicious. All the while I am spreading the word of these artist and genres in my area. Today I have purchased all of Saul Williams's, Blackalicious's, DJ Shadow's albums, plus countless others that I have found through them. My friends that I have introduced this music to have also bought albums from artist that have pleased them. Some of my friends have moved away to places ranging from Austin, TX, to small rural towns in Germany. Once in these places they share the music with their new friends. Their friends have then gone out and bought albums from artist that pleased them. A fan base that never would have never existed now does, albums have been sold to people who would have never known about them. This can all be blamed on 2 downloads off Napster 4 years ago.

quoted 1 line (roachgod69? HA HA HAA HA HA)

>(roachgod69? HA HA HAA HA HA)

I am not sure what my email address has to do with the content or quality of my messages. I have had this address for about 10 years (sense I was in high school) I have friends over the world who know this address, it would be difficult to inform them all of a change. I was the original RoachGod also, but I forgot the password to that address so I had to make a new one. 69 is a easy number for a horny teen to remember. The actual name roachgod had and has multiple meanings and levels of significance to me. I don't think it is need to delve in to these. zach -I hope this clears up any confusiong _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: idm-unsubscribe@hyperreal.org For additional commands, e-mail: idm-help@hyperreal.org