I could be wrong but I'd be surprised if E-Music was actually making money
off what they're doing. I would be willing to bet they're operating on an
aim for eventual profit model but that it probably still needs a fair amount
of underwriting at this point. I could be wrong.
Our split from E-Music wasn't in order to do this kind of thing ourselves.
We didn't see eye to eye on some issues. Don't read to much into that
comment. They're a decent company with a decent model, it's just one of
those things.
So here's the question. Can subscription be a profitable model? For instance
if we put some rare out of print stuff on our site, some things that were
previously only on vinyl, exclusive stuff, etc... would any of you pay a fee
per track. Say $1 per track or something? I'm of the opinion that what
attracts most people about downloading is the free part. I'm very much on
the fence with all this downloading business. We're actually still doing
quite well as a label even amongst all the doom and gloom predictions, but I
can see where the trickle down will start to hurt us in the next few years
as retailers and distributors take more and more bumps. Of course there's a
lot of things hurting the industry outside of just downloading. Same stuff
that's fucking all the other industries by plunging the US economy to shit.
His first name is George...
Jeff
quoted 147 lines From: Adam Piontek <adam@damek.org>
> From: Adam Piontek <adam@damek.org>
> Reply-To: adam@damek.org
> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 19:43:17 -0500
> To: idm@hyperreal.org
> Subject: Re: [idm] 2003: The Year the Music Industry Dies - Wired Magazine,
> 2/2003
>
> Let me get this straight.
>
> 1) Label tries to make money selling CDs.
>
> 2) Internet gets invented. People start trading files over the
> internet. It's a lot of trouble finding the music that you want, and
> it's a pain ripping CDs, but a lot of people prefer downloading music
> to buying CDs because it's so much cheaper (free).
>
> 3) Labels complain that people aren't buying what they're selling, throw
> up hands in frustration.
>
> So, if customers prefer the convenience and cheapness of digital music,
> and aren't buying so many CDs, why not provide what the customers want?
>
> Emusic seems to have been doing all right. I would think a label with a
> relatively OK back catalog and a good reputation would stand to have
> some good success with a cheap subscription service where we can go
> purchase access to a server and download the music straight from the
> label.
>
> OK, once it's downloaded, people could still trade it and avoid spending
> the money, but there are still a lot of people (like, non-college
> students, for one) who do not have the time or the energy to go
> searching for music they want on file servers and P2P networks. It's
> not easy. You rarely actually find what you want. Most of the stuff
> on P2P networks, even the good ones like Soulseek, is crap, often even
> poorly encoded.
>
> So I still think the one thing that no decent label has tried is a music
> subscription service. Charge money to give people access to your back
> catalog in good, high quality digital music files. I suppose the
> problem then would be if servers and bandwidth prove to be just as
> expensive as (or more expensive than) pressing CDs... but as noted
> above, eMusic seems to do OK. The service only needs to be cheaper
> than CDs, and more convenient than the P2P networks. And not require
> weird software and all sorts of digital rights stuff.
>
> As long as it's more convenient thant he P2P stuff, and cheaper than
> CDs, there's the sweet spot, and people who want the music will flock
> to it. I know I would. I spent quite a bit on eMusic getting a lot of
> the good stuff they offer.
>
> I seem to recall some Ninja Tune stuff was available there for a short
> while, only to be pulled, with some rumors about Ninja Tune looking
> into offering their own download service - which doesn't appear to have
> happened. I got some stuff while it was on eMusic - that was nice.
> But I haven't found it worth my money to spend full CD prices on more
> Ninja Tune stuff, as the Ninja Tune sound generally isn't my ball of
> wax.
>
> Yeah, that was supposed to be a short single paragraph thing, but turned
> into a long rant. So why aren't there label subscription services?
> Seems to me some of the bigger indies would stand to make a bundle,
> maybe... Buying cheap Ogg files straight from your websites would be
> worth it over trying to find the stuff on P2P networks.
>
> Especially for those of us who run alternative Operating Systems on
> which the best programs like SoulSeek don't even run...
> -Adam Piontek
>
> On Friday 17 January 2003 6:20 pm, Jeff/Ninja Tune wrote:
>> I want to know where I can get CD's made for $.25. Sign me up. I'd be
>> making a whole lot more money with that kind of manufacturing.
>>
>> This argument pisses me off. Fuck, after all the manufacturing,
>> pre-production, marketing cost, tour support, shipping costs,
>> overhead, paying the artist royalties (cause we're crazy like that),
>> mechanical royalties, etc... we're not exactly killing it on the
>> margins. We make a bit, artist makes a bit, store makes a bit,
>> distributor makes a bit. Is 15.98 list really so high (the list on
>> our titles). What do you pay to eat a good meal at a restaurant? How
>> many drinks do you get at a bar for that? What do you spend for an
>> average evening out? Let's face it. The whole argument exists because
>> music is easily downloaded for free so all of a sudden there is a
>> comparative value attached to it. "Fuck it I can get it for free, so
>> I'm clearly being ripped off when I pay for it".
>>
>> I think the music industry is fucking sketchy as all hell also, but
>> I've managed to carve out a comfortable living for myself and our
>> artists where I don't have to subscribe to most of that bullshit that
>> swirls around. I agree with a lot of what's being said here, but a
>> lot of you got a lot of learning to do in the field of economics and
>> the fact that this current mess could cause a nasty trickle down
>> effect to the artist/labels you actually like. I'm already having
>> trouble getting as many records out there as I'd like to because most
>> of the stores are struggling and the budgets just aren't there right
>> now for a lot of stores to take chances on the smaller/interesting
>> shit. The irony being that that's the stuff that's selling right now
>> as it's supported by dedicated fans, but that's the situation. At the
>> end of the day, a lot of people will probably be fucked in the
>> transition, but it's a billion dollar industry that isn't going away
>> it's just going to change up a bit in how it operates.
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>> From: "Patrick Norris" <untitledartist@hotmail.com>
>>> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 16:16:35 -0500
>>> To: IDM@hyperreal.org
>>> Subject: Re: [idm] 2003: The Year the Music Industry Dies - Wired
>>> Magazine, 2/2003
>>>
>>>> Fucking $18 for a CD that cost 25 cents to produce in mass
>>>> quantities?
>>>
>>> Maybe I seem like a Bastard here, but, there only 25 cents for a
>>> c.d. if you pay the artist no money for his time and work and any
>>> extra engineers or mastering engineers gotta eat too. Your paying
>>> everyone who helped bring the disk to you, At least consider that.
>>> Many of my freinds are engineers at studios around the states and
>>> they don't make shit as it is...but yeah just let 'em starve.
>>> 'Cause you know the Label CEO's, they ain't gonna take pay-cuts. I
>>> don't think $ 18 is cool either but when you refuse to pay, you
>>> aint hurting the millionaire major label heads, you're hurtin'
>>> freinds of mine....
>>>
>>> I'm sure I'll get a severe tongue lashing for even mentioning this
>>>
>>> P
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> The new MSN 8 is here: Try it free* for 2 months
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